skip-zip Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 @skip-zip, I hope you aren't ignoring my previous question to you because you're taking my question the wrong way. You originally said some positive things about Forsythe, then you shared a more negative opinion from your old HS coach friend. I'm just asking which you're trusting more right now -- your original opinion and the opinions of folks like Thad Matta and Bob Huggins or the opinion of your HS coach friend? I'm still planning to attend a Zips practice when Forsythe joins in (which I understand will be after fall classes start) in order to try to get a better handle on what to believe about his abilities. Dave, Of course I value my friend's opinion. Surely a far more reliable source than a bunch of guys babbling on an internet chat site, so I thought I'd get his thoughts, and share them with everyone. He has been a high school coach in the Cleveland area since the mid-80s, and knows the ropes, and talks about these kids among other coaches. He thinks this kid was over-recruited at a higher level. I guess we'll never know now. My own opinion was purely based on the fact that a BCS level player has tranferred down to our level. If you're saying that Huggins thinks this kid truly belonged at a high D-1 level, then I hope Huggy is right, because it means that we could potentially have a superstar on our hands. At the same time, as much as I love Bobby H., I'm sure he's made many recuiting mistakes in his career, and will make plenty more before he's done. Lets hope for the best, as always. You just never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 @skip-zip, I appreciate your explanation, and I appreciate you sharing the opinion of a HS coach. One thing's for sure -- there aren't many sure things when it comes to predicting just how well a HS player will do in college. I'm sure if we could poll every HS coach in NEO that there'd be a wide variety of opinions on just how good they think Forsythe can be in college. I can understand how there would be skepticism about him considering that he was a virtual unknown as a junior in HS and then came out of nowhere to have a spectacular senior season. We're all hoping for the best, and I can't wait to see him with my own eyes going up against Zeke in practice. My memories of Forsythe playing against the Zips at WVU last season is pretty fuzzy, as I was so bummed about making the long trip down there only to see the Zips get blown out that I put most of the game out of my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I guess this pretty well confirms it. Welcome Pat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I guess this pretty well confirms it. Welcome Pat! Looks good to me. Glad we won't have to wait too long to know about the NCAA's decision, either. If Trey Zeigler can get a waiver to play immediately at Pitt because his dad got fired, I can't imagine the NCAA denying Pat the opportunity to play this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Had my first look at Pat Forsythe working out in Zips blue and gold this morning. Saw him at last year's WVU game, but don't recall much. Today the first thing I noticed was that he's no skinny kid. He's built solidly from his legs to his beefy biceps. I don't think he'll be pushed around. He warmed up at the 3-point line by casually tossing a number of swishes. Obviously 3-point shooting is not his game. But he's got a good outside eye for a 7-foot center. Next thing I noticed is that he has quick feet. He pretty much moves around like you'd expect of an agile 6-7 player, except he's close to 7-feet tall. He plays hard in practice, and is fully capable of trapping smaller, quicker players on defense. He looks like he enjoys rebounding and playing D as much as he likes rattling the backboards with NBA quality slams. He can chase down a quick guard on a breakaway drive and swat a shot away similar to Zeke. If the NCAA grants his hardship request and he's eligible to play with the Zips this season, he will make a difference in the season results. The Zips would be very good without him and even better with him. Either way, he will make an outstanding starting center for the next three seasons after Zeke graduates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 GT Story on Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Zip Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 GT Story on Pat From the article: The primary concern is whether Forsythe will be able to play this year. According to statistics in an ESPN.com report, he has roughly a 50-50 shot. In the past five years, 47 hardship requests for basketball players have been approved and 47 have been denied. In the past year, there have been 15 approvals and 17 denials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Link to ESPN.com story with stats on hardship transfer waivers appears earlier in this thread back in this post. Note that the stats quoted in GT's article are for all hardship transfer requests, including those related to injury, financial hardship, etc. As the linked story details, the NCAA does not break out stats on transfer requests specifically related to family illness hardships, so there's no way of knowing what percentage of these requests are granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I hope hardship alumni get rewarded with multiple rebounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 It was announced today that the NCAA has approved Devonta Abron's hardship transfer waiver to play this season for TCU despite playing a full season last year for Arkansas. Abron transferred to TCU to be closer to his Dallas home "to deal with what was reported to be a health issue in his family." Devonta Abron eligible to play this season at TCU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 KD mentioned on Joe Dunn's 1350 AM talk show this afternoon that they're still putting together the necessary (and somewhat tedious) information package the NCAA requires in cases such as Pat's. I believe he said he thought they would have this portion of the process finished in the next 3-4 days if everything goes as expected. He didn't comment on how long the NCAA would take to review this package, however. So it would seem we're at least a few weeks away from getting a definitive answer on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 It was announced today that the NCAA has approved Devonta Abron's hardship transfer waiver to play this season for TCU despite playing a full season last year for Arkansas. Abron transferred to TCU to be closer to his Dallas home "to deal with what was reported to be a health issue in his family." Devonta Abron eligible to play this season at TCU Sounds like a solid precedent-setting ruling to me !! But, at the same time, can we ever count on the NCAA to be consistent from situation to situation? And do they even have any kind of accountability, legally or for the sake of "fairness", to make consistent judgements in these matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 @skip-zip, thanks for the KD update. As for what the NCAA might do in any individual case, it's always unclear. But for the benefit of those who may not have read the earlier ESPN story on transfers, here is part of the story dealing with the health of family members: How many of those are related to the health of a family member? Unfortunately, we don't know: NCAA spokesman Cameron Schuh said the organization doesn't track or break down those types of requests within its hardship waiver data. The numbers above refer to all hardship requests, which can also include injury and financial hardship, as above. Anyway, how does the NCAA decide cases involving the health of a family member? Again, the answers are cloudy. According to Schuh, there is no set criteria. Rather, every case is decided independently, on its own merits, based on specific circumstances. "There are a number of factors that are considered with the criteria, some of which include the relationship of the individual to the student-athlete and proximity from transferring institution to where the individual lives/is being treated, to name a couple," Schuh said in an email. "Each case is reviewed and determined based on its own merits, so it would not be accurate for me to say if any one factor is weighted more than another nor if cases that look similar on the surface have different outcomes." It's a tricky calculus. The NCAA must balance sensitivity to the family of a player, and that player's wish to be nearer an ill relative, while also ensuring the rule doesn't become (if it hasn't already) a cynically exploited loophole allowing players to transfer a year earlier than they might otherwise have done. In Pat's case, his legally blind father raised him as a single parent under difficult conditions, his father lives less than 30 miles from UA, and his father's primary physician is based in Akron. Sounds like a strong case to me. Then again, I've never worked for the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 It was announced today that the NCAA has approved Devonta Abron's hardship transfer waiver to play this season for TCU despite playing a full season last year for Arkansas. Abron transferred to TCU to be closer to his Dallas home "to deal with what was reported to be a health issue in his family." Devonta Abron eligible to play this season at TCU Very surprised about this one. But..the BigXII is different than the MAC, and the NCAA can be biased at times. They tend to give big schools "breaks" like this to help them out all the time, but bigger schools always get harsher punishments when they screw up. I have a bad feeling that they won't grant Pat a waiver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valpo Zip Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 the NCAA can be biased at times. OHH! How can you say something like that?!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipsrifle Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Very surprised about this one. But..the BigXII is different than the MAC, and the NCAA can be biased at times. They tend to give big schools "breaks" like this to help them out all the time, but bigger schools always get harsher punishments when they screw up. I have a bad feeling that they won't grant Pat a waiver... Yep! Wouldn't be the first time the NCAA screws an up and coming Akron Team. Put me in the "I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get it" camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 @skip-zip, thanks for the KD update. As for what the NCAA might do in any individual case, it's always unclear. But for the benefit of those who may not have read the earlier ESPN story on transfers, here is part of the story dealing with the health of family members: How many of those are related to the health of a family member? Unfortunately, we don't know: NCAA spokesman Cameron Schuh said the organization doesn't track or break down those types of requests within its hardship waiver data. The numbers above refer to all hardship requests, which can also include injury and financial hardship, as above. Anyway, how does the NCAA decide cases involving the health of a family member? Again, the answers are cloudy. According to Schuh, there is no set criteria. Rather, every case is decided independently, on its own merits, based on specific circumstances. "There are a number of factors that are considered with the criteria, some of which include the relationship of the individual to the student-athlete and proximity from transferring institution to where the individual lives/is being treated, to name a couple," Schuh said in an email. "Each case is reviewed and determined based on its own merits, so it would not be accurate for me to say if any one factor is weighted more than another nor if cases that look similar on the surface have different outcomes." It's a tricky calculus. The NCAA must balance sensitivity to the family of a player, and that player's wish to be nearer an ill relative, while also ensuring the rule doesn't become (if it hasn't already) a cynically exploited loophole allowing players to transfer a year earlier than they might otherwise have done. In Pat's case, his legally blind father raised him as a single parent under difficult conditions, his father lives less than 30 miles from UA, and his father's primary physician is based in Akron. Sounds like a strong case to me. Then again, I've never worked for the NCAA. Me neither. And I agree that it's a very strong case for a hardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Finally got to see Pat go up against Zeke in open gym play. All I can say is WOW! First, Pat appears to be about an inch or two shorter than Zeke. I'm guessing that Zeke is closer to 7-1 than 7-0 now, and that Pat is between 6-11 and 7-0. Even if that's off by a fraction, these two certainly both play like 7-footers. They were really going at each other throughout the whole scrimmage, leaning on each other, pushing and shoving, trying to disrupt each other's shots. You could tell they both appreciated the challenge because neither one of them complained or jawed at the other. They both seem to understand that testing each other like this on a regular basis is a huge benefit for both players. Not many talented 7-foot college centers have a player of similar size and talent on their own team to put pressure on them in practice and prepare them for the best talented bigs they might face during the course of the season. I didn't keep a scorecard of blocked and altered shots between the two, so I can't really say who "won" that battle. Each was able to defend the other pretty well at times, and each was able to score over or around the other at times. We all know that Zeke is a defensive monster, and that he also led the team in scoring last season. The fact that Pat was able to compete so well against Zeke at this stage is really promising. I won't try to go into detail about the other players. They all look good right now. This is an impressive collection of athletes. I will say that the biggest surprise for me was Blake Justice. Not only did he rain in a series of long 3s, but the rest of his game is better than I expected at this stage. He's in great physical condition and seems to be able to run all day without breathing hard. Highlight of the day was Tree on a breakaway with a fancy spin and power jam that bounced straight up off the rim so high in the rafters that it almost kissed a banner before falling back onto the rim and just rolling out. Tree had the biggest smile I've ever seen on his face. Too bad there was no video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Are you sure you weren't watching these guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippyman23 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 In Pat's case, his legally blind father raised him as a single parent under difficult conditions, his father lives less than 30 miles from UA, and his father's primary physician is based in Akron. Sounds like a strong case to me. Then again, I've never worked for the NCAA. That was also the case when he originally decided to go to West Virginia, which would be the issue for the NCAA. How has the situation changed since then? That's what ultimately will decide the success of the waiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thought I would add to the previous high school coach "Forsythe opinion" debate and bump it up a notch. I talked briefly with Bob Huggins earlier today and asked him how he thought Pat would do at Akron. He said he thought he would "do OK." He didn't think he would do great because he was unimpressed with Pat's work ethic. I didn't get the impression his response was based on sour grapes. He seemed to genuinely think Pat would be a good addition to the Zips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootforRoo44 Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thought I would add to the previous high school coach "Forsythe opinion" debate and bump it up a notch. I talked briefly with Bob Huggins earlier today and asked him how he thought Pat would do at Akron. He said he thought he would "do OK." He didn't think he would do great because he was unimpressed with Pat's work ethic. I didn't get the impression his response was based on sour grapes. He seemed to genuinely think Pat would be a good addition to the Zips. That's interesting. I hope a combination of KD and the team leaders can change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thought I would add to the previous high school coach "Forsythe opinion" debate and bump it up a notch. I talked briefly with Bob Huggins earlier today and asked him how he thought Pat would do at Akron. He said he thought he would "do OK." He didn't think he would do great because he was unimpressed with Pat's work ethic. I didn't get the impression his response was based on sour grapes. He seemed to genuinely think Pat would be a good addition to the Zips. Thanks for the assesment Zipmeister. I imagine KD can find a way to get Forsythe to fit into the Zips program and perform at a high level. Not everyone responds to Huggins coaching methods, as is evident by the number of transfers out of WVa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I still think this one was more creative: I thought this was bad news and then I heard about Zeke transferring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I still think this one was more creative: I agree. See if you can find out if Bob was at the Dayton Agonis Club on Monday, (9/24/12). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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