Penn State - What should NCAA do?

[BirdZip]

This was on Every Day Should Be Saturday. There has been a lot of talk about taking the Paterno statue down. Good or bad, leave it up. There are statues of horrible people all over the world. Everyone has the right to look at something and make their own evaluation as to what it is and what it stands for. People do this every day when they go to museums. Leave it up.

Yes, leave the statue up. Then, build a pigeon house directly above it and feed the pigeons Ex-Lax.

I voted death penalty, and the NCAA shouldn't have to do anything. PSU itself should shut down the program, at least temporarily, until it completes the full investigation. Is there no-one still working there that knew about this and let it continue? No-one?

The other thought I had was to let them play their games but not allow any fans at their home games. That would obviously be a financial penalty but might also be a symbolic continued moment of silence in the stadium in recognition of what was done to the victims.

[Dr Z]

The other thought I had was to let them play their games but not allow any fans at their home games. That would obviously be a financial penalty but might also be a symbolic continued moment of silence in the stadium in recognition of what was done to the victims.

Why not donate ticket sales to the victim's mental health services and or some kind of financial restitution? I'm not sure how most of the punishment suggested helps the victims.

[BirdZip]

Why not donate ticket sales to the victim's mental health services and or some kind of financial restitution? I'm not sure how most of the punishment suggested helps the victims.

I'm not sure that money necessarily helps the victims either. We throw money to victims for a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily always make sense. Do the victims need that much money for their mental health? If that was for some foundation or charity in general, that much money would make sense, helping victims beyond PSU.

I was thinking more along the lines of keeping this is in the news or at least keeping it as a topic of discussion. If games are being held in an empty stadium, that makes the news and has an impact. The victims can likely sue PSU and get all kinds of money from a civil case (I'm not a lawyer, so no idea how easy that is). The opportunity being presented here is to send a message that this is unacceptable--not only at PSU but anywhere else it may be occurring. Shine a light on it and keep the batteries charged.

[GP1]

Why not donate ticket sales to the victim's mental health services and or some kind of financial restitution? I'm not sure how most of the punishment suggested helps the victims.

In an indirect way, the money for the games is going to go to the victims. PSU is going to be shelling out tens of millions of dollars to victims over the next several years, as well they should. They are going to be shelling out the money in a time when state institutions around the country are short on money. One way or another the victims will be getting part of the gate.

BirdZip is correct. PSU should suspend their season next year, but they can't. They can't because over the past decade, they have been involved in the same arms race as every other school. Arena after arena. Stadium after stadium. Those structures have to be kept up and the football team is the organization contributing the most to the "building process".

Let's do another exercise. For every action, there is a reaction. Who else could be negatively impacted by PSU not playing next year. I can think of one big organization that would be hugely negatively impacted. Every year, PSU students participate in Thon. It is the largest student run philanthropy in the world and benefits child cancer victims. Think not having seven home games a year for one or two years might impact the fundraising of this organization? Is that what we want when we talk about penalties and the desire for people to impose them? I don't think people hate child molestation as much as they fear it for many, many reasons. Fear comes before hate. I hate to bring up Yoda on a serious subject, but a lot can be learned from Star Wars..."Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you." People want the death penalty because they fear it will happen again and a statement needs to be made about it. I have news for everyone. There were child molesters 1,000 years ago. There will be child molesters 1,000 years from now. We can only try to lessen this problem. Do we really want to get to the point where our fear and hate leads to children with cancer suffering? I'd rather the school try to use this opportunity to do something good.

[Hilltopper]

At least a one year death penalty is my vote. Jopa and his superior's were involved in a cover up of a series of major felonies. They did it to protect the goose that was laying golden eggs for them and their friends.

[GP1]

At least a one year death penalty is my vote. Jopa and his superior's were involved in a cover up of a series of major felonies. They did it to protect the goose that was laying golden eggs for them and their friends.

"Jopa and his superiors". I agree. JoPa is dead. Sandusky is in jail. The other two are not far behind Sandusky in going to jail. The culture that caused the mentality that cause something like this to happen was widespread. A culture can't perform a crime, only people. The offenders list is pretty small though. I don't see a reason for the death penalty for a small group of offenders. Those who will be negatively impacted by the death penality will be broad.

[GP1]

This Week

The best 2:19 discussion on this issue was on This Week yesterday morning. I agree with everything everyone said. Video is at the bottom.

[UAZipster0305]

Try as he might, GP1 will not surpass the quality of this post in the coming year. The second half of the third paragraph is spot on! Well done.

However, I disagree that the NCAA death penalty for PSU football or athletics in general would necessarily weaken the cancer fundraising. If spun properly, fund raising for children's charities could be greatly enhanced. Put a donation box at the gates of every other college football, basketball, or soccer game in the country, and there you go! Millions!.

In an indirect way, the money for the games is going to go to the victims. PSU is going to be shelling out tens of millions of dollars to victims over the next several years, as well they should. They are going to be shelling out the money in a time when state institutions around the country are short on money. One way or another the victims will be getting part of the gate.

BirdZip is correct. PSU should suspend their season next year, but they can't. They can't because over the past decade, they have been involved in the same arms race as every other school. Arena after arena. Stadium after stadium. Those structures have to be kept up and the football team is the organization contributing the most to the "building process".

Let's do another exercise. For every action, there is a reaction. Who else could be negatively impacted by PSU not playing next year. I can think of one big organization that would be hugely negatively impacted. Every year, PSU students participate in Thon. It is the largest student run philanthropy in the world and benefits child cancer victims. Think not having seven home games a year for one or two years might impact the fundraising of this organization? Is that what we want when we talk about penalties and the desire for people to impose them? I don't think people hate child molestation as much as they fear it for many, many reasons. Fear comes before hate. I hate to bring up Yoda on a serious subject, but a lot can be learned from Star Wars..."Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you." People want the death penalty because they fear it will happen again and a statement needs to be made about it. I have news for everyone. There were child molesters 1,000 years ago. There will be child molesters 1,000 years from now. We can only try to lessen this problem. Do we really want to get to the point where our fear and hate leads to children with cancer suffering? I'd rather the school try to use this opportunity to do something good.

[K92]

Wow.

Cooler heads are definitely prevailing in this thread.

Something tells me though, if we transferred everything that happened at PSU to another institution, many of these cooler heads would be LOSING THEIR MINDS right now.

Bias is a bitch.

[GP1]

Cooler heads are definitely prevailing in this thread.

The greater the problem, the cooler heads have to be.

Personally, I've always been against less ncaa involvement in just about everything. If the answer to a question is, "The ncaa needs to step in an do something", then it was a stupid question.

[akronzips71]

On the other hand, if Penn State is shut down, there is a possibility that AKRON could pick up a junior or senior transfer or two, being geographically close and having a nationally recognized coach. That would be interesting.

I don't think the death option would stop the players from playing elsewhere, they had nothing to do with the crimes.

[Class of 82]

Basically, for all of you, it's a chance to point and laugh and/or bust out morality diatribes. For me though, it's the implosion of an entire belief system and the most important thing to me for most of my adult life (you can argue that family should come first, but PSU has been pretty tightly intertwined with that, as I've mentioned). It's impossible to adequately explain how this all feels, but the fact that I'm up after 3am randomly spilling my guts to all of you is a piece to that puzzle, I suppose.

ANYWAY, my sincere belief is that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to do anything. I don't believe the school gained any sort of competitive advantage from its actions/inactions. Yeah, outing Sandusky immediately maybe would have been a mild PR hit, but not anything that hurts the football program's recruiting or anything like that. In fact, by acting as most say they should have, Paterno and the school arguably would have ENHANCED their reputation. They couldn't have prevented Sandusky's pedophilia in the first place, but giving the sledgehammer treatment to a revered part of the program's tradition once he was discovered would have ultimately been good for PR, IMO. Honestly, the fact that nobody saw it that way is the single thing that has me scratching my head as much as anything else. It's sort of a dangerous precedent too, tying NCAA violations to criminal behavior. If a Sandusky gets a school the death penalty, do you lose a scholarship for every second player caught underage drinking?

That's what my brain says. My heart says burn the place to the ground. On some level, I would get a good deal of satisfaction if the football program was wiped out indefinitely. It would represent a fraction of what they've taken from me.

Sorry for venting to all of you...I just figured it was time for me to speak up on here. Go Zips!

Thanks for sharing that, kr. My brother-in-law is a Penn State grad, and he's about as sick over this whole affair as you are. The suffering of these victims dwarfs everything, of course, but I don't think it's widely appreciated how devastating this is to alumni. The whole thing is simply surreal.

I understand the desire in some quarters to extract every pound of flesh possible, but I believe this is a matter for the criminal justice system and the civil courts, not for an athletic governing body.

The bottom line, though, is whether Penn State football remains or goes away, it will never, ever be what it once was. Fair or not, this scandal will define Penn State football... always. In the long run, I don't see how any program could bear such a burden. And that's sad, if you ask me.

Anyway, keep your chin up, dude, and give your wife a hug!

All the best,

Class of 82

[MDZip]

I know lots of Penn State graduates and they are really hurting right now. Here was a piece written by an ESPN employee for CNN by a Penn State graduate that sums up some of those feelings. Here is a little telling excerpt:

"And weeks ago when my son received his very first college acceptance letter from my alma mater, Penn State -- a moment I thought would be one of the pinnacles in my life -- we both tossed the letter aside and prayed that he'd get accepted into a "better school." (Our prayers were answered.)"

[Class of 82]

I know lots of Penn State graduates and they are really hurting right now. Here was a piece written by an ESPN employee for CNN by a Penn State graduate that sums up some of those feelings. Here is a little telling excerpt:

"And weeks ago when my son received his very first college acceptance letter from my alma mater, Penn State -- a moment I thought would be one of the pinnacles in my life -- we both tossed the letter aside and prayed that he'd get accepted into a "better school." (Our prayers were answered.)"

Great article that sums up a lot of people's feelings, I'm sure. Thanks for the link, MD.

[johnnyzip84]

There has been a lot of insightful and sincere discussion here, and I hope kr35 recognizes there has been very little (if any) pointing or laughing on this board regarding this topic. GP1 makes some good points about the NCAA governing body's "raison d'etre". Perhaps I was thinking more with my heart than my head in selecting a 2 year death penalty. I still have concerns about the residual culture in the PSU athletic department, and maybe that's the main reason I wanted to see a true "purge". MDZip's link points out that my concerns should be more universal, and that's something I really can't argue against.

[taxpayer]

The NCAA should sit tight. At the present time, they'd be piling on if they publicly entered the public discussion. Privately, they can contact the current board and president of PSU and inform them they are observing the program and institution.

Anyone who personally observed or was informed of Sandusky's crimes and did nothing should be terminated by PSU and their individual case reviewed by the Pennsylvania Attorney General and if facts can be proven, charged with aiding and abetting.

This event isn't an athletic matter other than an athletic coach(es) and administrators were involved and an athletic venue was the scene of some of these crimes.

I'd also suggest if any PSU athlete is so distrubed by the events that they be allowed to transfer out without the typical 1yr sit and loss of eligibility. Don't blame/penalize the innocent for the crimes made by the guilty, punish the guilty.

[Dr Z]

Somebody that wants the punishment to have some sort of positive effect. Nick Saban

Ray Rotto's proposal: Keep the football program and have it fight for something more noble than the Leaders Division of the Big 10 Conference. Make it a standing advertisement for what went wrong, and how it can be made right. Make the money a tool, rather than its own reward. Make Penn State stand for rebirth rather than degeneration.

[johnnyzip84]

Michael Rosenberg weighs in

[GP1]

PSU will play football next year.

[GP1]

They could, but they won't.

[acstorfer]

This goes so far beyond the NCAA. I am pleased, well not pleased, nothing that can happen will make up to what happened to these victims, but relieved most of the monsters will be spending time in prison. There they can be punished in the same fashion the victims were abused, ah yes, sweet justice. Still though, the NCAA has to get involved. This is the most horrific thing to come out of college sports ever.

Yes, death penalty to football and ALL sport programs indefinitely! Vacate all wins and championships during Sandusky's entire tenure. This went on, on Penn State property. Make sure no institution ever lets this happen again, ever! Yes, it isn't fair to the student/athletes, but small price as to what this drastic, but just punishment can provide. The crime was a travesty and the cover-up was just as evil, if not worse! It goes way beyond punishment. The NCAA needs to ensure this could never happen again, anywhere.

As far as Penn State goes, demolish that rediculous statue. Change the name of the library. Get rid of EVERYTHING that has anything to do with this scandal. At this point I can't believe Penn State hasn't taken these steps already.

[InTheZone]

This goes so far beyond the NCAA. I am pleased, well not pleased, nothing that can happen will make up to what happened to these victims, but relieved most of the monsters will be spending time in prison. There they can be punished in the same fashion the victims were abused, ah yes, sweet justice. Still though, the NCAA has to get involved. This is the most horrific thing to come out of college sports ever.

Yes, death penalty to football and ALL sport programs indefinitely! Vacate all wins and championships during Sandusky's entire tenure. This went on, on Penn State property. Make sure no institution ever lets this happen again, ever! Yes, it isn't fair to the student/athletes, but small price as to what this drastic, but just punishment can provide. The crime was a travesty and the cover-up was just as evil, if not worse! It goes way beyond punishment. The NCAA needs to ensure this could never happen again, anywhere.

As far as Penn State goes, demolish that rediculous statue. Change the name of the library. Get rid of EVERYTHING that has anything to do with this scandal. At this point I can't believe Penn State hasn't taken these steps already.

Bit of an overreaction there chief.

[MDZip]

I saw a suggestion about moving the Paterno statue in front of his Library to remind people to keep quiet at all times. Ouch.

[acstorfer]

Bit of an overreaction there chief.

Perhaps, but they let Sandusky keep his keys!

Perhaps the only folk who are definitely the one's to decide are the victims?

[ZippyRulz]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/foot...s.ap/index.html

Emmert has not ruled out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the scandal, adding that he had "never seen anything as egregious."