What next?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I just don't get it. I've seen it happen but don't understand how UA could vastly improve the campus and its athletic facilities, and yet the football program fields likely one of the few worst teams in all of FBS. We all know that Bowden and his staff brought initial hope for a turn around. I was ecstatic during the early games when the offense scored a ton but now the Zips are back to rock bottom. So, even with the coaching of a highly successful staff this is a one win team. Factory of sadness indeed.

I can't stop thinking that there is something deeper and more "broken" than the coaching staff, some structural explanation for the fall of this program. If UA cannot win more than one game a year playing in the MAC, with Terry Bowden as the head coach, in a newer stadium, on a newly attractive campus with A+ facilities, where does hope come from?

Akron, in spite of the newer facilities, does not appear to be an attractive choice for FBS-type players. I don't know how the 2013 recruits look, but if Terry and his staff are unable to recruit some serious winners, this coming year, the question will be why players won't come here? Why could UA recruit better when they played in the Rubber Bowl than they do now? What is it that is so unappealing to potential recruits?

For those who would answer simplistically that "we cannot recruit because we lose games," that cannot be it. All of these other MAC programs find a way to be at least be middling. Can't has turned it around, and quickly. Ball State was up, down, now up again. They all compete, except for Akron. For those who are in touch with the program on a deeper level, what do the kids who refuse to be recruited by Akron say about why they will go just about anywhere but here? That's what I want to know.

Lastly, I will wait to see what Terry does with this first full recruiting class. If Terry Bowden, who could sell snow to Eskimos, can't sell seriously good players on playing for him at Akron, and I mean right now, then I will become extremely skeptical, again, about long term prospects for UA football. If Terry can't make it happen, that tells me that there are deep, troubling, structural issues that will not be resolved by the hard work of a solid staff. I have no idea what might be lurking under the surface, but something is keeping good players from wanting to give it a go at Akron. Someone PLEASE help me understand.

[LZIp]

Its a pretty simple concept really. College programs arent turned around overnight no matter how much we hope and wish.

[ZachTheZip]

Why complain about recruiting? Our recruiting class is shaping up to look pretty good.

[GP1]

SeeTeeZip, All of us understand your frustration and share it. However, I think you are overstating the problem.

The tone of your note seems to indicate winning at Akron may be impossible. It isn't. Faust produced the most wins in a season back in the 90s. Owens had a couple of good seasons and fielded some competitive teams. JD won the conference and put up some wins against BCS teams. Winning is possible.

We are deep in a hole created by Tom Wistrcill and his decision to hire a buddy in lieu of a competent coach. Ianello didn't have the experience, vision or personality for a head coaching job and Wistrcill was too stupid to see it. The year before Ianello, the Zips had a terrible season and won only three games. To me, when a manager fires a guy, he believes he can do better with the next guy. Before owning my own business, I managed people at big companies. When I fired someone who was under performing, I was expected to hire someone who could stop the bleeding and get things turned around. Stopping the bleeding had to be immediate. Wistricill didn't stop the bleeding, he made it worse. Wistricill is a terrible manager and I still to this day can't believe he still has his job at Akron. He botched the biggest decision an AD has ever had to make at the school. In many ways, the Board of Trustees should have put Dr. P's job on the line as well for botching the hiring of Wistrcill.

Ianello's job should have been to take the program from "terrible" to just "plain bad" in the first year. This didn't happen in our case. Under the leadership of Wistrcill, the football team went from "terrible" to an "abomination". When I watch Alabama play football, I'm sometimes actually shocked at how good they are. The opposite is true with the Zips. I'm actually shocked at how bad they are and the lack of talent. Ianello made the program this bad. TW hired Ianello because....well, he once told me what he thought and what he said was so stupid I refuse to post what he said on the board until he is gone because it is that embarrassing to type or say.

Our problem is plain and simple. There is not enough talent on this team to beat a bad MAC school. Talent is everything. Part of the solution is to bring in guys who can impact the program right away. This is the stopping the bleeding part. KD did this early when he brought in his players from St. V even though he wasn't the head coach yet. They understood what he wanted to do and he quickly stopped the bleeding. TB can't do the same thing because it takes more than 2-3 players in college football, which means he needs a lot of JUCO guys who can impact winning immediately. Secondly, recruit their replacements as freshmen and coach them up as quickly as possible to try to create some depth. This program can't wait another four years to get to 4-5 wins. It needs to happen quickly. The turnaround is possible, albeit extremely difficult.

You're right about recruiting. The way I see it, we have a HUGE problem within Ohio right now. Any kid you want playing for you wants to win and that his primary motivation for his decisions. Playing time is important, but they want to play for successful programs. In the MAC, Ohio, Miami, Toledo and now Can't are pretty good. I don't see Can't's success lasting long, but it is there right now and will be helpful in near future recruiting. It's hard to recruit high school kids when there are so many good schools in the state. It is a problem, but not one that can't be solved.

We won with Faust. We won with Owens. We won with JD. We won with Mike Thomas. We won with the AD in the Faust years. We have won with Dr. P as president. We became a laughing stock with the Wistrcill/Ianello duo. You guys do the math.....

There is no way on God's green Earth that TW should have his contract extended when the time comes. Any university president who hires him in the future should be immediately fired.

[GP1]

Its a pretty simple concept really. College programs arent turned around overnight no matter how much we hope and wish.

It happens all the time. Especially in the MAC.

[LZIp]

It happens all the time. Especially in the MAC.

Depends on what you consider "turning around". We have won 3 games in 3 season. It is unrealistic to think this team could have a winning season.

[GP1]

Depends on what you consider "turning around". We have won 3 games in 3 season. It is unrealistic to think this team could have a winning season.

True. It can happen in 2-3 years.

[ZachTheZip]

It happens all the time. Especially in the MAC.

Not in the first year. Miami under Michael Haywood took their huge leap in their second year. Ditto Can't with their current coach. It took Brian Kelly three years to get CMU going. Ohio took two years under Solich.

[Zipmeister]

Why complain about recruiting? Our recruiting class is shaping up to look pretty good.

Have you been holding out on us regarding commitments?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Have you been holding out on us regarding commitments?

I've seen the recruits listed as they've committed, and based on the comments I see from other posters who I presume know something about FBS prospects, I wonder about the class so far. Regarding GP1's comment that the tone of my message was that it may be impossible to win at Akron, that is exactly what I'm worried about; not that it's metaphysically impossible to win at UA, but that there is something deeper than we normally consider, something that seems to make the "total package" presented by the university, campus, city, etc, unattractive to recruits. It's not like we have some up years wherein we're awesome, and are just in a down phase right now. Other MAC programs, EMU excepted, have seemingly all had the ups to go with the downs. Even our "up" years are less than awesome. When the other MAC programs have "up" years, they beat solid FBS programs, they wind up nationally ranked, they crush UA. Even during 2005 UA wasn't that kind of program.

I would offer that UA suffers from something deeper. Terry is the highest profile guy we're ever going to see at UA. If he doesn't impact recruiting, and by extension the on field product, immediately, it cannot be done at Akron. We'll see how he does, but I don't see kids rushing to be here yet. I think there are factors that have to do with the saturation of big time football, options nearby for players, something to do with UA's lackluster history in football, arriving on the D-1/FBS scene too late, perceived prestige of program, or some confluence of factors that may always prevent UA from succeeding at the FBS level.

When UA couldn't even reel in Winters last year, I was pessimistic about the program and was one of those advocating for a potential move to FCS. Let's see how Terry does, but if he doesn't succeed, UA's goose is cooked at the FBS level as far as I'm concerned. You can say it's early to be in "jump" mode, but this team is 1-8 and getting worse each week, with the potential to win one more the rest of the way. Terry had better be able to recruit his ass off going into next season.

[Captain Kangaroo]

1.) I've seen the recruits listed as they've committed, and based on the comments I see from other posters who I presume know something about FBS prospects, I wonder about the class so far.

2.) We'll see how he does, but I don't see kids rushing to be here yet.

3.) When UA couldn't even reel in Winters last year....

4.) You can say it's early to be in "jump" mode, but this team is 1-8 and getting worse each week...

1.) Why would you presume said people know something? I would say it is much more accurate to presume they know very little.

2.) No high profile recruits are rushing to MAC programs in droves in October. If you want to chug Drano because the Zips aren't kicking everone's ass in recruiting on October 29th, you really don't understand the depths to which Ianello sunk us, and the realities of what it takes to rise above. October 29th is not the time to panic about recruiting. Especially when it is going well for the Zips.

3.) Wistercill

4.) Us getting worse each week is not a commentary on our coaching. It's a commentary on our microscopically thin talent level, and what losing players like D'Orazio, Pressley, Martin, Caponi and Chisholm mean to our competitive potential. There is no way, with our 4th string defensive line, thin OL and Connor Hundly at RB that we had any chance of competing on the road @ CMU.

Ianello dug us a hole as deep as any in 1-A history. There's no amount of "coaching up" that can turn us around in 2012.

We need to do our best to compete with K.e.n.t., which will be difficult because K.e.n.t. is playing good football, and Ianello so de-emphasised the meaning of the Wagon Wheel ("...its just another game in the process") that I really wonder if we have any chance whatsoever of pulling-off an emotion-led upset.

We gotta beat UMass.

[K92]

I feel your pain, SeeTee.

I can't speak for anyone else, but a lot of my current frustration revolves around the Wagon Wheel game.

In the 13 years before the Ianello debacle, Akron's record in the rivalry was 11-2. That kind of success against your rival certainly salved a Zip fan's otherwise chapped ass.

Now we have lost two in a row and the prospects for a win may have never looked as dim as they do today. I look forward to the game all season long and after each week this year I found myself thinking "Wow, are we in trouble" instead of looking forward to a psychological season-saving win. It has really weighed on me this year.

Perhaps I have placed too much emphasis on the game. Perhaps the 11-2 run placated me when it shouldn't have. Maybe the specter of losing 3 in a row isn't the disaster it feels like.

My heart feels like this season has been a nine week slow motion train wreck that is going to finally make impact this Saturday and it really shouldn't feel like that because there have certainly been bright spots of happiness this year.

I love ya, Zips!

[Big Zip]

The title of this thread is What next?

What's next is a complete ass beating by our rival. Do you ever remember being 20 point underdogs to K.E.N.T.?

I'd take K.E.N.T and lay the points all damn day log....this is your opportunity to get rich.

[Captain Kangaroo]

The title of this thread is What next?

What's next is a complete ass beating by our rival. Do you ever remember being 20 point underdogs to K.E.N.T.?

I'd take K.E.N.T and lay the points all damn day log....this is your opportunity to get rich.

It is amazing that, in 2009, K.e.n.t. was 5-4 going into their game vs. the Zips. They had won 3-in-a-row.

The Zips started Patrick Nicely at QB, and won 28-20.

The common denominator - Each team decided to improve their coaching situation. And based upon the Bell Curve, one AD achieved what we all are after, while the other was "- 5th standard deviation," heart-wrendingly awful.

[akronad]

What next? Patience. Those of you that thought this was going to be simple and easy have been smokin' tooo much wacky tobacky! If you had listened to TB way back as early as last spring, he was giving a us an indication that this season was going to be tough on the Zips. He saw what we have and didn't have and went out and recruited what he could he short notice. The lack of good players and depth has taken the toll as we were paper thin as far as talent is concerned. After having season tickets for 25 yrs., we did not renew our tickets for last year. The wife and I saw the writing on the wall. However, after hiring TB and the staff he has assembled, we renewed our tickets. Believe me, if his assistnat coaches didn;t think they could get the job done, they would have hired toon somewhere else. We all need to be patent and se and hope for the future. I have a lot of confidence that things will get better. Go Zips!!!!!

[Captain Kangaroo]

If you had listened to TB way back as early as last spring, he was giving a us an indication that this season was going to be tough on the Zips. He saw what we have and didn't have and went out and recruited what he could on short notice.

While I agree with the bulk of your post, I recall TB tossing the term "bowl eligibility" around in September. Around the same time NewZipsFan was looking forward to an 8-0 romp through the MAC? I think his first time through the league has given the staff, and new fans, a reality check on what it takes to win the MAC in 2013. If you are fielding 3rd stringers and Freshman, you are going to get your clock cleaned.

We've made a quantum leap forward in competitiveness this season, but have miles to go before we can legitimately run with the big dogs.

[Zipmeister]

Only time will tell if we can get this situation turned around.

But I’m keeping my fingers crossed that we can,

And I’m hoping that we do so quickly.

My main concern, to date, is the unimpressive 2013 recruiting class.

Although a few of the recruits chose Akron over other decent schools

So many are undersized.

Unless the quality of recruits improves substantially we are destined to remain at the bottom of the MAC

Certainly it’s a bit early to give up the ship;

Keep the faith.

Somewhere out there are the guys we need to get the job done.

[johnnyzip84]

1. I’ll always be dissatisfied to see the Zips lose, even though I realize the expectations have hit rock bottom over the last few years. The early season week-to-week improvement caused me (and others) to see some hope in winning a few games such as at CMU this past Saturday. But the Cap’n is correct: The injuries to key personnel coupled with the most competitive season in MAC football history are conspiring to squash pretty much any chance of a Zip victory this MAC season, aside from an equally struggling UMass squad. TB is probably surprised at just how good the conference is this year. And I’ve pointed this out before, but many of the keys players in the MAC are underclassmen. 2013 is shaping up to be another strong year.

2. Looking back, it’s apparent that the level of film study that occurs in-conference, where every team pretty much knows what the other is doing by the end of the year, has had a significant impact on the Zips’ MAC performances. As TB says, there are only so many things you can hide through scheming. Much of the early season success was likely due to the opponent not having enough familiarity or time to adjust.

3. I think skip-zip put it best when he boiled the recruiting question down to whether the staff can do this effectively under the current circumstances. I believe, regardless of the coach, there is a window of opportunity for turning a football program around. Given his history, TB probably has a larger window than many, but it’s not infinite. At some point, the momentum needs to turn positive.

4. Right now, if Darrel Hazell and TB both want the same kid, I’m not sure I like our chances. We need to get that guy promoted right out of Portage County ASAP. You would think he’s already done enough to garner considerable attention this off-season.

5. Few would argue whether TB is an excellent coach or not. But how much of his success can be attributed to recruiting salesmen or general football acumen? Recruiting at the lower levels is completely different, so I think you can only review his Auburn record to develop an opinion relevant to his current situation.

6. I remain hopeful, but I have definitely altered my expectation level for this program over the next few years. And while I still believe there is a much better than 50% chance TB will eventually succeed here at UA, I no longer agree with the notion that “it’s not a question of if, but when”.

7. It’s an obvious consideration, but I’ll be very curious to see if any of the staff choose to leave after this season.

[Class of 82]

It makes total sense to be disappointed at this stage. It makes zero sense to panic.

Our record doesn't show it, but this is a far better Zips team than the one that was fielded a year ago. We've got a good young quarterback learning the ropes of the spread from a senior transfer. We have a solid sophomore running back. We've got some decent young receivers. On offense, I'd say the future looks pretty bright.

On defense, we've just been killed by the lack of depth and size, but especially depth. With little help on the bench, you just can't suffer the kinds of injuries we've suffered and expect to stay competitive.

Keep the faith, people. Judge recruiting next February, not now.

Anyway. I still believe.

[mivid12]

solution is very very simple.....get better players

[ZippyRulz]

I think it boils down to 2 questions:

1. Could an Urban Meyer or Brian Kelly be very successful at Akron, as they were at other MAC schools?

2. Is it possible for Akron to hire such a coach?

I think the answer to both is now yes and I am still hopeful that TB is in that class of coach. The admin did good to get the facilities built, now they need to finish the job and ensure the right people are hired.

[Dr Z]

TB is the right person. We need players.

[Lee Adams]

I just don't get it. I've seen it happen but don't understand how UA could vastly improve the campus and its athletic facilities, and yet the football program fields likely one of the few worst teams in all of FBS. We all know that Bowden and his staff brought initial hope for a turn around. I was ecstatic during the early games when the offense scored a ton but now the Zips are back to rock bottom. So, even with the coaching of a highly successful staff this is a one win team. Factory of sadness indeed.

I can't stop thinking that there is something deeper and more "broken" than the coaching staff, some structural explanation for the fall of this program. If UA cannot win more than one game a year playing in the MAC, with Terry Bowden as the head coach, in a newer stadium, on a newly attractive campus with A+ facilities, where does hope come from?

Akron, in spite of the newer facilities, does not appear to be an attractive choice for FBS-type players. I don't know how the 2013 recruits look, but if Terry and his staff are unable to recruit some serious winners, this coming year, the question will be why players won't come here? Why could UA recruit better when they played in the Rubber Bowl than they do now? What is it that is so unappealing to potential recruits?

For those who would answer simplistically that "we cannot recruit because we lose games," that cannot be it. All of these other MAC programs find a way to be at least be middling. Can't has turned it around, and quickly. Ball State was up, down, now up again. They all compete, except for Akron. For those who are in touch with the program on a deeper level, what do the kids who refuse to be recruited by Akron say about why they will go just about anywhere but here? That's what I want to know.

Lastly, I will wait to see what Terry does with this first full recruiting class. If Terry Bowden, who could sell snow to Eskimos, can't sell seriously good players on playing for him at Akron, and I mean right now, then I will become extremely skeptical, again, about long term prospects for UA football. If Terry can't make it happen, that tells me that there are deep, troubling, structural issues that will not be resolved by the hard work of a solid staff. I have no idea what might be lurking under the surface, but something is keeping good players from wanting to give it a go at Akron. Someone PLEASE help me understand.

Its a good point. There has been no consistent 'winning' around here since the program went to D-I. There have been some individual players who have had a significant amount of talent. Amazingly, most of those guys were recruited under the Lee Owens regime. Dwight Smith,Jason Taylor,Dom Hixon,Chase Blackburn even Charley Frye. There were others.

Point,since Faust came in and took the program to D-I there has never been a consistent connect between good recruiting and good coaching and consistent winning. Last time we had all that was when we were D-II. Do you then have to look at the administration? The guys who run the athletic department? But, we know basketball and soccer have generally been consistent winners with some down periods over the past 30 or so years.

If TB doesn't compete for a MAC championship in 2 more years,then the administration needs to take a seriuos look at whether this program will ever be able to compete consistently In D-I and MAC in football.

[LZIp]

I think it boils down to 2 questions:

1. Could an Urban Meyer or Brian Kelly be very successful at Akron, as they were at other MAC schools?

2. Is it possible for Akron to hire such a coach?

I think the answer to both is now yes and I am still hopeful that TB is in that class of coach. The admin did good to get the facilities built, now they need to finish the job and ensure the right people are hired.

lol.

[Lee Adams]

While I agree with the bulk of your post, I recall TB tossing the term "bowl eligibility" around in September. Around the same time NewZipsFan was looking forward to an 8-0 romp through the MAC? I think his first time through the league has given the staff, and new fans, a reality check on what it takes to win the MAC in 2013. If you are fielding 3rd stringers and Freshman, you are going to get your clock cleaned.

We've made a quantum leap forward in competitiveness this season, but have miles to go before we can legitimately run with the big dogs.

Read an article in the Plain Dealer couple of days ago. TB appeared to be saying that he was not expecting the level of talent in the MAC to be as good as it is. Hope this doesn't mean that this 'rebuilding' thing is going to take even longer than expected.