K.e.n.t. Ranked in Top 25

[Blue & Gold]

K.e.n.t. has made their way into the Top 25.

Sometimes I don't have success linking from my Mac, but I'll try.

Top 25

Edit: the link doesn't work; story is from Ohio.com.

[Dr Z]

Stephanie's article found here.

EA wrote a story about it here.

If you want the silver lining in our crummy storm cloud, we played well against Ken+, OU and UT who were all ranked at one time.

Rome wasn't built in a day...or something like that.

[zen]

You guys are going to hate me, but I'm rooting for Kènt to roll with it.

I don't believe that their success hurts us. I refuse to fear anything except the potentiality of our own future failure.

[Class of 82]

You guys are going to hate me, but I'm rooting for Can't.

Agreed.

If K.e.n.t. can turn their football program around, there's absolutely no reason why Akron can't do the same. I congratulate them and wish them success... until the next Wagon Wheel game.

I don't believe that their success hurts us. I refuse to fear anything except the potentiality of our future failure.

Lol... thanks for that, zen. I needed a chuckle this morning.

[zen]

Agreed.

If K.e.n.t. can turn their football program around, there's absolutely no reason why Akron can't do the same. I congratulate them and wish them success... until the next Wagon Wheel game.

Lol... thanks for that, zen. I needed a chuckle this morning.

Obviously would never root for them over us.

I'm just sayin, until we get our own program, there is no rivalry. It's not their fault we suck.

[Class of 82]

Obviously would never root for them over us.

I'm just sayin, until we get our own program, there is no rivalry. It's not their fault we suck.

Well, I'm probably a minority here, but my "hatred" for K.e.n.t. is mostly exclusive to the days when we meet them on the field or on the court. When I was a student at UA, I had a ton of friends who went there and I had a lot of great times on that campus and in that town. We had a great and heated and high-spirited rivalry, but it wasn't really hateful; it was just a heckuva lot of fun.

Don't get me wrong. My passion for beating the snot out of Can't State is off the charts, but at the end of the day, I think the rivalry is best when both schools are doing well. And you're right; it isn't their fault we suck right now. It's past time for Akron to do its part in making the rivalry great. I still believe Bowden and co. are going to get it done.

The hand-wringing around here is understandable, I guess. But I'm not going to let it get me down. I'm not going to get into a sour-grapes mode with K.e.n.t. And I'm darned sure not throwing in the towel.

GO ZIPS!

[Let'sGoZips94]

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Dave in Green]

This is really good news for Zips fans as long as we stay focused on one cardinal rule:

If Can't can do it, UA can do it better.

[skip-zip]

You guys are going to hate me, but I'm rooting for Kènt to roll with it.

I don't believe that their success hurts us. I refuse to fear anything except the potentiality of our own future failure.

They compete with us directly for students, athletes, and attention, particularly in the Akron area and NE Ohio. And you don't think thier Top-25 football ranking hurts us?

Turn that scenario around. Do you also believe that if we were a Top-25 football program that we wouldn't gain any advantage on them?

I wish I could live in complete denial on this issue. But I can't. This is a big deal.

[zen]

They compete with us directly for students, athletes, and attention, particularly in the Akron area and NE Ohio. And you don't think thier Top-25 football ranking hurts us?

Turn that scenario around. Do you also believe that if we were a Top-25 football program that we wouldn't gain any advantage on them?

I wish I could live in complete denial on this issue. But I can't. This is a big deal.

Does the Duke / North Carolina rivalry hurt each team respectively, or does it serve both programs?

[skip-zip]

Does the Duke / North Carolina rivalry hurt each team respectively, or does it serve both programs?

If one of them was in the Top-25, and the other one was in the midst of spending 3 years at the bottom of D-1A, then one of them would have an unbelievable advantage over the other.

Seriously, do you really believe that this doesn't help Ken+ ???

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

It's a big deal. Someone please help me understand why EVERY other MAC program has ups and downs, but with significant ups to go with the downs, while Akron is pretty much all down since the move to D-1. Eastern Michigan may be the only other MAC program I can think of that is comparably and perpetually down, along with Akron. For those who remember 2005 so fondly, take a look at the overall record that year, plus the years before and after, and you'll be brought back to the reality that even the seasons we remember fondly weren't very good. The records under Faust were as good as any other coach since the move. How can that be?

I've been hitting the board hard the last few days because I am now convinced that there is something MORE, about Akron football potential, than just that Akron hasn't "hit" on the right coach. Being unable to post at least one dominant year in the worst FBS conference in the nation, over a 25 year span, convincingly indicates that the problem goes beyond not having the right coach. Akron spent a ransom on new athletics facilities, obviously with the belief that competitive facilities would get them over the hump. That move has proven to be a waste of money and a failure. So, what is it? I'M TRYING TO GENERATE DISCUSSION.

What is it about the campus, the university, the entire package, that seems so unappealing to potential recruits? Certainly somebody close to the program knows about discussions recruiters have with local coaches and kids who will go anywhere but to Akron. What do they say about the situation?

Is it possible that considering geography and demographics, Akron made the jump to big time football at the wrong time? Are there too many, larger, programs in the region, such that there aren't enough FBS-quality players to go around?

Is it possible that at some point after the move to FBS, Akron would have needed to cheat, to bring in a handful of high-caliber recruits by paying them under the table or offering other special incentives, and just failed to make such moves? I find it hard to believe that programs that make the jump, in an incredibly competitive and intense environment, are able to build major programs without cheating. Is it possible that Akron has just never been willing to cheat enough, to pay enough?

Instead of gnashing of teeth here, why not actually dive a little deeper in our discussions of this program? If schools like Can't State and Ball State can build to the point of posting dominating years, what are the deeper reasons that Akron has never been able to? And depending on where you locate and localize those problems, what do they portend for the future of the program? Little boys make accusations of "you're no fan." Grown men discuss what's really wrong with this program. How about posters who fancy themselves as fans step up here, after 25 years of failure, and discuss.

[K92]

I hate Portage County as much as anybody, but...

The best possible scenario for both schools would be if both programs elevated to the point where the WW game decided the MAC East, year in, year out. It would be the best medicine for the fan apathy surrounding both football programs.

Rivalries thrive when the game means something.

[LZIp]

It's a big deal. Someone please help me understand why EVERY other MAC program has ups and downs, but with significant ups to go with the downs, while Akron is pretty much all down since the move to D-1. Eastern Michigan may be the only other MAC program I can think of that is comparably and perpetually down, along with Akron. For those who remember 2005 so fondly, take a look at the overall record that year, plus the years before and after, and you'll be brought back to the reality that even the seasons we remember fondly weren't very good. The records under Faust were as good as any other coach since the move. How can that be?

I've been hitting the board hard the last few days because I am now convinced that there is something MORE, about Akron football potential, than just that Akron hasn't "hit" on the right coach. Being unable to post at least one dominant year in the worst FBS conference in the nation, over a 25 year span, convincingly indicates that the problem goes beyond not having the right coach. Akron spent a ransom on new athletics facilities, obviously with the belief that competitive facilities would get them over the hump. That move has proven to be a waste of money and a failure. So, what is it? I'M TRYING TO GENERATE DISCUSSION.

What is it about the campus, the university, the entire package, that seems so unappealing to potential recruits? Certainly somebody close to the program knows about discussions recruiters have with local coaches and kids who will go anywhere but to Akron. What do they say about the situation?

Is it possible that considering geography and demographics, Akron made the jump to big time football at the wrong time? Are there too many, larger, programs in the region, such that there aren't enough FBS-quality players to go around?

Is it possible that at some point after the move to FBS, Akron would have needed to cheat, to bring in a handful of high-caliber recruits by paying them under the table or offering other special incentives, and just failed to make such moves? I find it hard to believe that programs that make the jump, in an incredibly competitive and intense environment, are able to build major programs without cheating. Is it possible that Akron has just never been willing to cheat enough, to pay enough?

Instead of gnashing of teeth here, why not actually dive a little deeper in our discussions of this program? If schools like Can't State and Ball State can build to the point of posting dominating years, what are the deeper reasons that Akron has never been able to? And depending on where you locate and localize those problems, what do they portend for the future of the program? Little boys make accusations of "you're no fan." Grown men discuss what's really wrong with this program. How about posters who fancy themselves as fans step up here, after 25 years of failure, and discuss.

25 years of failure are irrelevant to this season. Ask Cant!

[Class of 82]

What is it about the campus, the university, the entire package, that seems so unappealing to potential recruits?

Akron has merely proved that facilities, by themselves, are neither the deal maker nor the deal breaker. Leadership and vision are, ultimately, what kids want to be associated with. We have had that in soccer with Lolla and Porter. We have had that in basketball with KD. Now, we hope we have it with TB, and I don't think that hope is misplaced. (By the way, anyone old enough to remember the Coleman Crawford days knows that our basketball program was once pretty much where football finds itself now.)

Is it possible that Akron has just never been willing to cheat enough, to pay enough?

I don't believe that for one second.

Instead of gnashing of teeth here, why not actually dive a little deeper in our discussions of this program? If schools like Can't State and Ball State can build to the point of posting dominating years, what are the deeper reasons that Akron has never been able to? And depending on where you locate and localize those problems, what do they portend for the future of the program? Little boys make accusations of "you're no fan." Grown men discuss what's really wrong with this program. How about posters who fancy themselves as fans step up here, after 25 years of failure, and discuss.

I don't know. I think a lot of fans, me included, failed to grasp fully just how low the football program had fallen. We hoped competent coaching could result in squeezing out a few more wins. But the program was, obviously, beyond a couple of tweaks here and there. Were we better? Yes, we were. But the league got better, too. There's still more work to do. But a couple of good classes and some key transfers will make a huge difference. It certainly has for K.e.n.t. It will for us, too.

Anyway, I get that the "weather" seems a lot crappier than usual this week, but the sky isn't falling.

[zen]

I like where you steered the discussion SeeTeeZip. This is what is best about forums.

I think we discussed it before when the stadium was being built, and we had hoped that it would change the inertia.

What I think is missing here is a certain gravitas or a sort of appeal of importance.

Success breeds success. Once you are in front of the wave, reputation and image propel you in recruiting.

But if you are losing, and you have no legacy to fall back on, you need something else.

Flagship state universities with large campuses and large stadiums can sell that to talent.

SEC teams with palm trees on campus and alumnus with pro contracts can sell that.

Storied programs with big TV contract and big-time visibility can sell that.

What do we have to sell?

I thought that it was a bold move for the University to bring in coaches like Bowden and Amato.

I felt that this would be the selling point. "Look at who you will be playing for and who you will be mentored by."

I hope I'm not being cynical, but if the ship doesn't turn quick, the football credibility and history of this coaching staff may lose whatever gloss that could have made this work.

[Zips Win!]

I like where you steered the discussion SeeTeeZip. This is what is best about forums.

I think we discussed it before when the stadium was being built, and we had hoped that it would change the inertia.

What I think is missing here is a certain gravitas or a sort of appeal of importance.

Success breeds success. Once you are in front of the wave, reputation and image propel you in recruiting.

But if you are losing, and you have no legacy to fall back on, you need something else.

Flagship state universities with large campuses and large stadiums can sell that to talent.

SEC teams with palm trees on campus and alumnus with pro contracts can sell that.

Storied programs with big TV contract and big-time visibility can sell that.

What do we have to sell?

I thought that it was a bold move for the University to bring in coaches like Bowden and Amato.

I felt that this would be the selling point. "Look at who you will be playing for and who you will be mentored by."

I hope I'm not being cynical, but if the ship doesn't turn quick, the football credibility and history of this coaching staff may lose whatever gloss that could have made this work.

In the computers, the 9-1 Can't State*CKS are ranked #65 with a Strength of Schedule of 133.

On the other hand, my 10-0 buckeyes are ranked #20 with a SOS of 62.

While I am at it, I am officially a Steelers fan as well. I am tired of losing...

[UAZipster0305]

I don't even know how this is possible with Can't's terrible loss to Kentucky at the beginning of the season. Thus far, it is UK's only win for the season, and they blew Can't's doors off, 47-14.

Thus far, they have beaten the weaker teams in the MAC (not NIU, BGSU, Toledo, or Ohio) and there OOC wins include Towson (1-AA) and Army who are terrible. Granted, the win against #15 Rutgers was impressive, but other than that, Can't only played one other (semi-)worthy opponent and got blown out.

I expect Can't to lose to either BGSU and/or Ohio to close out the regular season.

True, I don't like Can't at all. Nonetheless, I wouldn't hesitate to give them credit if it was merited (golf and baseball), and I think I'm being fair here.

[MDZip]

OK SeeTee, I'll bite. Akron is a relative newcomer to college football in an area that was already overloaded with D-1 teams. There are 8 FBS schools in Ohio and Ohio probably doesn't have the talent to supply all of them with high level players. However, every one of them has seen a high level of success in the last ten years (except, you could argue, Akron) so its not impossible. Look at other states like Florida, until recently they only had three FBS schools, now they are at seven and plenty of talent in Florida to supply them (and enough for other out of state schools to swoop in and grab some quality as well). Texas is similar, with 11 FBS schools but lots of talent and population in the state. California is even better off with only seven FBS and tons of talent.

With Akron being a relative newcomer, with no real tradition or cachet, its tough to attract good players and the awful facilities didn't help (but even then there was some measure of success). A lot of it comes down to the coach, his system and philosophy that matters that much in college sports, why do you think the good ones get paid so much? I don't think we've ever really had a good one. What happened to all our former coaches? Not one was offered another FBS head coaching job. I'm willing to let the Terry Bowden era play out because I think we still struck gold with him. If he can't do it, I'm not sure who could. How might we be feeling right now if Paul Winters was coach? Do you he might have gotten more out of this lot? Could anyone? What if iCoach was still around? Wow. So I'll let Terry work his longer term plan and stick with him while he tries to gain some short term victories.

What could help? I hate to mention this because its one of the things people tend to dislike the most about Akron, but the one advantage we might have is the open enrollment policy. Chuck Amato thought that non-qualifiers helped us years ago, lets go get him some now. I'm not talking about it as a long term strategy but at least to get the ship righted in the short term. JUCO's, kids who couldn't get in anywhere else because of grades or SAT's, welcome them, we're the Statue of Liberty school - bring us the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Open enrollment is a lemon, let's make some lemonade. Of couse there is a real risk here, you do have to worry about APR, so my solution there is we list all of the soccer players (men and women) as backup kickers (I suspect that is what's starting to occur at Can't ) so we can mix their GPA's and graduation rates in the bunch. Time to start thinking out of the box, I see movie potential in this one.

[ZippyRulz]

In spite of our 25-year history in 1-A, next season will be the first time we've had great facilities along with a "name" coach with a full recruiting season under his belt. Hard to believe, but true. Now it's time to grab another soccer nat. champ. and another MACC in hoops, then it will be time for spring football with hopefully some transfer reinforcements to get excited about. Pohl sounds very promising but TB may also go out and get someone even better by then.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Further food for thought:

1) People talk about leadership and vision lacking over the last 25 years, and perhaps that's the case. How is it then that all of the other MAC programs, with the exception of Eastern Michigan, have managed to have blockbuster seasons, while we've foundered?

2) Fans have asserted (hoped is a more accurate term) during this period that UA is just one great recruiting class away, just needs a few key transfers, to make it happen. Why do you have faith that will happen when it hasn't over such a long period?

3) MDZip mentioned Paul Winters. Considering that he is from here and knows the culture (the good and the bad) I still believe that Winters would have been a good long term hire. There would have been none of the TB excitement, but it remains to be seen how TB's good-old-boy routine will translate here. I have to think Winters would have worked himself to the bone to build relationships with local coaches and would have slowly, determinedly chipped away at it. Totally different type of hire than Terry, but think about how much of the initial TB excitement has faded, and all that remains now is the work that a guy like Winters might have been very good at. Is Terry going to be good at grinding away on the recruiting front, trying to sell what Akron has to offer? Winters has been selling exactly that for his entire career.

I'd be very interested in looking at Akron and Eastern Michigan as the two standouts in the MAC. What are the similarities between the two? I know very little about EMU but may do some research to see if I can find parallels that may help to explain the almost profound level of failure each has experienced in football.

[Class of 82]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Further food for thought:

1) People talk about leadership and vision lacking over the last 25 years, and perhaps that's the case. How is it then that all of the other MAC programs, with the exception of Eastern Michigan, have managed to have blockbuster seasons, while we've foundered?

Well, what consistent leadership and vision have we had? Very little, if you ask me. And what kind of real credibility have we had? Until TB, I think the answer is the same.

2) Fans have asserted (hoped is a more accurate term) during this period that UA is just one great recruiting class away, just needs a few key transfers, to make it happen. Why do you have faith that will happen when it hasn't over such a long period?

Because we have a credible coach who I believed kids will want to play for. I still believe that, and we'll know better next February whether or not that is the case.

3) MDZip mentioned Paul Winters. Considering that he is from here and knows the culture (the good and the bad) I still believe that Winters would have been a good long term hire. There would have been none of the TB excitement, but it remains to be seen how TB's good-old-boy routine will translate here. I have to think Winters would have worked himself to the bone to build relationships with local coaches and would have slowly, determinedly chipped away at it. Totally different type of hire than Terry, but think about how much of the initial TB excitement has faded, and all that remains now is the work that a guy like Winters might have been very good at. Is Terry going to be good at grinding away on the recruiting front, trying to sell what Akron has to offer? Winters has been selling exactly that for his entire career.

I still think Winters would have been a good hire, but I'm convinced TB was a far better one. Paul could have helped us turn things around for the very reasons you state. But I think TB has a better shot to do it far more quickly simply because he is a guy with a ton of charisma and credibility. Same with his staff.

I'd be very interested in looking at Akron and Eastern Michigan as the two standouts in the MAC. What are the similarities between the two? I know very little about EMU but may do some research to see if I can find parallels that may help to explain the almost profound level of failure each has experienced in football.

I'll look forward to your analysis!

Keep the faith, bro!

[Lee Adams]

It's a big deal. Someone please help me understand why EVERY other MAC program has ups and downs, but with significant ups to go with the downs, while Akron is pretty much all down since the move to D-1. Eastern Michigan may be the only other MAC program I can think of that is comparably and perpetually down, along with Akron. For those who remember 2005 so fondly, take a look at the overall record that year, plus the years before and after, and you'll be brought back to the reality that even the seasons we remember fondly weren't very good. The records under Faust were as good as any other coach since the move. How can that be?

I've been hitting the board hard the last few days because I am now convinced that there is something MORE, about Akron football potential, than just that Akron hasn't "hit" on the right coach. Being unable to post at least one dominant year in the worst FBS conference in the nation, over a 25 year span, convincingly indicates that the problem goes beyond not having the right coach. Akron spent a ransom on new athletics facilities, obviously with the belief that competitive facilities would get them over the hump. That move has proven to be a waste of money and a failure. So, what is it? I'M TRYING TO GENERATE DISCUSSION.

What is it about the campus, the university, the entire package, that seems so unappealing to potential recruits? Certainly somebody close to the program knows about discussions recruiters have with local coaches and kids who will go anywhere but to Akron. What do they say about the situation?

Is it possible that considering geography and demographics, Akron made the jump to big time football at the wrong time? Are there too many, larger, programs in the region, such that there aren't enough FBS-quality players to go around?

Is it possible that at some point after the move to FBS, Akron would have needed to cheat, to bring in a handful of high-caliber recruits by paying them under the table or offering other special incentives, and just failed to make such moves? I find it hard to believe that programs that make the jump, in an incredibly competitive and intense environment, are able to build major programs without cheating. Is it possible that Akron has just never been willing to cheat enough, to pay enough?

Instead of gnashing of teeth here, why not actually dive a little deeper in our discussions of this program? If schools like Can't State and Ball State can build to the point of posting dominating years, what are the deeper reasons that Akron has never been able to? And depending on where you locate and localize those problems, what do they portend for the future of the program? Little boys make accusations of "you're no fan." Grown men discuss what's really wrong with this program. How about posters who fancy themselves as fans step up here, after 25 years of failure, and discuss.

Why can't Akron win consistently in the MAC? First of all lets please stop fretting about what is going on at K.E.N.T. I actually saw a post on here where someone was hoping Hazell would leave there and go to a bigger program so they would get bad again. If thats what we are hanging our hats on to be competetive with them, wow!

If we go back to the only period of time since Akron went to DI where the team was 'winning consistently' maybe we can see something. That period was '03(7-5),'04(6-5),'05(7-6).Spanned the careers of 2 coaches,Owens and Brookhart. Many of the players were recruited by Owens. Brookhart added a few key pieces. Owens got fired after a 7-5 season. Brookhart got fired after a 3-9 season in '09. That as we all know was the first year of Infocision. Expectations were way too high. Brookhart had a couple of 'near miss, seasons,'06 and '08. A'break' here or there maybe he is at least .500

The point? Those teams from '03 to '06 had some pretty good TALENT. Some guys are still playing in the NFL. Owens recruited pretty well. How did he do it? JD took some chances on guys who were very marginal students but had some talent. He recruited some guys who had personal issues. It cost him. Could he have gotten it turned around? Who knows. Front office changes probably assured changes would be made on the field. Coaches have to RECRUIT MAC/DI level talent consistently to create a steady stream into the program. I am convinced that at the MAC level you have to be a good recruiter first to convince kids to come. The 'build it and they will come' fantasy is just that at the MAC level. There are no better facilities in the MAC than at Akron.

Is TB a good recruiter? With all respect,he seems like someone who could sell ice cubes to eskimos. So yep it looks like it. Is he a good game day coach? Seems like he has made some progress on the offensive side of the ball(I'm still not convinced about the D side).

The front office needs to get out of his way at this point. Fans need to look for a slow build over the next 2-3 years. This is the best shot this program has had since '03. Will it work out? Lets stay tuned.

[Dave in Green]

Nice analysis, Lee.

[Wally B]

I know very little about EMU

That about sums it up!

At one time EMU was a dominant MAC power.

Despite its recent success, Ohio has been mired in mediocrity since the mid 60's

After years of ineptitude, Ball St. had one miracle season, where they had the easiest schedule in the nation, then lost the MACC and their bowl game.

Buffalo has had one break out season where they barely made a bowl game.

Both BallSt. and Buffalo followed their success with absolutely pathetic seasons (o-12 for BSU i think?)

the Rubber Bowl was considered an MAJOR asset when we first moved into the MAC.

Shortly thereafter, a new UA administration decided it wanted NOTHING to do with a football program. So they installed Buchtel Comons, while the bowl and program were left to rot.

See the previous 39 years at Can't State to understand what lack of institutional support does to a program.

Recognize that none of this has ANYTHING to do with whether or not UA can field a successful D1a program, or TB's ability to build it.

I suggest researching the actions of TB, how iCoaches actions crippled us for the short term, and compare the spirit of the 2012 squad w/ 2010-11.