Poor STUDENT support....

[LZIp]

I think you have identified why people don't come out and support other winning Akron teams. The rifle team thanks you for not naming names.

haha, I actually have class with 2 rifle team guys. Pretty cool dudes

[JeffQ78]

I think you have identified why people don't come out and support other winning Akron teams. The rifle team thanks you for not naming names.

No, the rifle team doesn't want people attending their events is that 1) the range is horrible to have spectators, its too small and they have tons of equipment and 2) rifle as a whole is not spectator friendly to begin with.

[you am i]

Because it only takes around 3000 fans per game to be the top program.

Because the team recently won an NCAA national championship.

[GP1]

I hear EVERYONE...and all have very good and legitimate points of view...HOWEVER when does it become about the TEAM and not who they are playing?

This is the part that I wonder about. The Zips product is excellent right now and people aren't buying. The fact that they are good is no secret. It doesn't take much effort besides clicking on a few websites to find out about when the Zips are playing and who they are playing. The rest of this post will be directed to the general readers.

In order to market even a good product that has been good for a long time, something exciting has to catch the customer or they think it is the same old product. What have fans heard about the Zips thus far?

1. Two players suspended because the babysitters who run the athletic department can't get simple NCAA paperwork filled out.

2. Loss to an easily beatable CCU.

3. Loss to a big time team in OK State in PR.

4. Wins over UNCA, PSU, JCU and Malone.....

5. Win against a good, yet not well known, MTSU on an NFL Sunday.

Please be honest and someone/everyone tell me how to generate interest around these points thus far.

Ever watch a really good movie with an exciting ending? The next time you watch it, you skip to the exciting end and not the good middle/beginning. This is where the program is.

I mentioned this earlier this season. The program is a little stale for a lot of fans. They know it is good, but there isn't that "something" catching their attention. The part that will capture their attention comes at the end of the season in the MAC Tournament/NIT/NCAA/Whatever. Something different has to happen at the end of the year to capture attention for next year. Until then, it is the same old story.

[akzipper]

Students have been treated with more respect at soccer events. There's an entire section devoted to students for soccer games. The soccer coach comes over to thank the students. He goes around campus asking them to come to games. He makes you care about the program.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there an entire thread bitching because they encouraged students, not sitting behind the hoop, to sit in section 11 last game?

[zippy5]

Yeah we've seen it at soccer games. Students can care. If we can get 1,000 to a soccer game, we can get that many to basketball games.

[RootforRoo44]

So, if the Zips soccer team were to start playing and winning at the same relative level as the basketball team, their loyal student supporters would start ditching them?

They already started to this past season. The socceRoos may have only lost one game in 2012, but 2011 was a weak year comparatively and it kind of carried over.

By the way, Zips basketball may win, but they never beat top 10 teams. It's not even comparable. Not saying i agree with the student support, it's just that the basketball team isn't the "it" thing to do on campus.

[akzipper]

If soccer was unranked, 2-6 in MAC Championships and 0-2 in the NCAA I'm sure attendance/interest would be very low.

But to me basketball and even football will always be more exciting games to attend. I played soccer in high school, but honestly I just don't find it all that exciting anymore.

[wadszip]

The soccer argument is apples and oranges. For one, like has been pointed out, the soccer team is annually nationally ranked and has won a national championship, on top of several other deep runs in the tournament. Secondly, the soccer program can bring in high profile, and highly-ranked opponents to town. Imagine if the basketball program could bring in schools like Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan, etc., attendance would be 10,000-plus for those game (if the school had a big-enough facility).

But as good as the basketball program could become (making several deep runs in the NCAA Tournament), those type of schools still aren't coming to Akron, especially to play in the JAR. Look at Butler, the school has a rich history dating back 50-plus years, plays in a historic 10,000 seat arena and has played in two national title games in the past three years, still marquee teams aren't knocking down the door to play games at Hinkel. Granted, they can now get an occassional Ohio State (Thad Matta giving back to his former school) or a Louisville to play a game at Hinkel, they are still mostly relegated to playing the traditional powers at neutral court sites or in preseason tournaments (though they are invited to the bigger ones now). It's just tough for any mid-major to land marquee OOC home games in basketball, unlike the Akron soccer program.

To me, the things holding back more people jumping aboard the basketball program are:

1. The campus environment - This isn't a problem the basketball program will solve, but a university-wide issue. The school is moving in the right direction, but still has a ways to go before it can match its MAC peers Toledo and Buffalo (in being large state schools located in mid-sized industrial cities) in establishing a true college feel. It's also way behind its other regional peers (Pitt, Cincinnati, Louisville). Akron only matches Cleveland State in that regard (and like Akron, CSU is making positive strides in shedding the 'commuter school" image).

2. The JAR - The team will never be treated like a big-time program locally playing in a glorified high school arena. The JAR isn't an attraction, even if the product playing there should be. This has been talked about to death, but the school needs to build a new arena to ever be taken serious locally. And it doesn't even need to be a cavern like the Convocation Center in Cleveland, but a modern 8-10,000 seat venue with great site lines and amenites is enough. I'd even be willing to go with 6-8,000 if that is all that is economically feasible. That's not ideal, but, IMO, shows how much any sort of upgrade is needed.

3. Winning - Again, this has been talked about, but just going to MAC championship games every year and going to the NCAA tournament here and there and losing in the first round, just isn't cutting it outside of the die-hards. Attendance was down significantly from 2008-10 due to the complacency of the program (despite two tourney appearances). KD, rightfully, started to change his philosophy after that, and it has brought a more fan-friendly product to watch, and last year attendance starting to trend back in the right direction due to those changes. However, this new product has to produce results this year to keep momentum on its side. Another MAC title game flameout, or even an NCAA tournament first round flameout, and suddenly the people who have started to buy in are back off the wagon, saying "typical Akron."

And GameChanger, since you started this thread, thought I would weigh in on this. Fair or not, Zeke plays a big role in the future of this program, and whether the local fans will buy in (and make my No. 2 and 3 points more of a possibility). Now a senior, and a team leader, if he can put this team on his shoulders, play at the high-level his skill set shows he can, and helps this team make a run that the fans here realize can be made, he could go down as the person who transforms this program into one that is taken even more serious, not only in Akron, but potentially regionally (and nationally). Unfortunately, Zeke will be gone by the time it makes a difference fan-wise. Fortunately, he will be either successful on the pro level or in whatever avenue he decides to go post-Akron. Regardless, hopefully, you'll continue to support the UA basketball program.

[K92]

Good post, wadszip.

[CincyZip]

Most students ever (not including against Can't).

Boom

[Zipgrad01]

Most students ever (not including against Can't).

Boom

And it was under 800....pathetic.

[Dave in Green]

Right, they actually made an announcement at the game that it was the biggest turnout of students at any home game in the Dambrot era except for Can't and OU games. I believe the number was less than 720 out of 25,000+ students. We were pretty shocked to hear that. It's beyond sad.

[CincyZip]

Right, they actually made an announcement at the game that it was the biggest turnout of students at any home game in the Dambrot era except for Can't and OU games. I believe the number was less than 720 out of 25,000+ students. We were pretty shocked to hear that. It's beyond sad.

Oh, it was the Dambrot era, I wonder how much is the record.

[RowdyZip]

And it was under 800....pathetic.

I think 1,000 is a reasonable number of students for them to shoot for for basketball. That's a little less than 20% of the capacity of the arena. 700 isn't all that bad when you consider the crowd was a little less than 3200, students were a little more than 20% of the crowd.

[ZachTheZip]

Right, they actually made an announcement at the game that it was the biggest turnout of students at any home game in the Dambrot era except for Can't and OU games. I believe the number was less than 720 out of 25,000+ students. We were pretty shocked to hear that. It's beyond sad.

That's 13% of the total capacity, and 23% of the crowd on hand for that particular game. Generally speaking, 20% students and 80% paying ticketholders is the sweet spot. For a typical JAR home game of 3500, 700 students is perfect. Part of the problem is that we don't play any exciting opponents at home that would draw student interest.

Imagine if it were a sellout situation (Can't or Ohio). You don't really want more than 1000 students taking up seats unless you're sure that a game won't have many paying fans.

[Dave in Green]

@ZachTheZip, I think you're looking at it from a different perspective than I am. I'm looking at it from the POV that 700 students represents less than 3% of UA's student body. I know that we had way more than 3% of the student body at basketball games when I went to college. But maybe I'm being unrealistic in a world that's changed a lot since the "good old days."

[zippy5]

When I benchmark student sections I think Duke and Pitt.. I wouldn't guess either of those get over 1,200 per game. 720 against Ball State in the JAR for a team that quite frankly isn't nor hasn't ever been Pitt or Duke is pretty good.

[akzipper]

"Under 800 students? we only need an arena that seats 800" -ZipsLogic

[ZachTheZip]

@ZachTheZip, I think you're looking at it from a different perspective than I am. I'm looking at it from the POV that 700 students represents less than 3% of UA's student body. I know that we had way more than 3% of the student body at basketball games when I went to college. But maybe I'm being unrealistic in a world that's changed a lot since the "good old days."

Well, unless we build a larger arena, then student attendance is nearing its saturation point. At some point, they can't be blamed for not showing up in bigger numbers than they already do.

They showed up on Wednesday, and what reward did they get? They're herded into a dark corner of the upper arena to sit on crappy wooden bleachers and promptly forgotten, all the while looking down at the chairback sections at 50% capacity and wondering why the university doesn't want their students to create a loud and intimidating atmosphere.

[Valpo Zip]

I hear your frustration with the treatment of students Zach and I believe something can be done about it, but it is not really the only problem. If the regular season games were meaningful, people will come and not be too worried about the type and location of their seats . Look at soccer games, people (students and others) are willing to STAND in the rain and the snow to watch the soccer team because they see value in every game because every game counts.

Our basket ball team on the other hand, starts the season by laying a few eggs draining all the excitement and the chance for an at large bid. And then, the coach will tell us that it is ok because in the end all what matters is the 3 games in Cleveland. So guess what? outside the few hundred faithfuls, people will only watch the three games in Cleveland.

[skip-zip]

On one hand, I'm glad that 700 students actually showed up to a game.

On the other hand, I am actually embarrassed that they decided to announce such an unimpressive number, and expect it to spark some kind of celebratory outburst from the crowd.

[Dave in Green]

I was wrong to say that student attendance of 700 is "beyond sad." After having done a little research on college basketball attendance, I've seen enough to convince me that 700 is not a bad number for UA playing against a 20-point underdog. The thing that really changed my mind was seeing that Duke has had problems filling its 1,200-seat student section over the past five seasons. If Duke can't attract 1,200 students for some of its home games, then UA drawing 700+ students to see Ball State is actually pretty decent.

I do wonder what percentage of OU's average home attendance of 6,000+ are students. At the very least, UA should try to be the best in the MAC.

[RootforRoo44]

I was wrong to say that student attendance of 700 is "beyond sad." After having done a little research on college basketball attendance, I've seen enough to convince me that 700 is not a bad number for UA playing against a 20-point underdog. The thing that really changed my mind was seeing that Duke has had problems filling its 1,200-seat student section over the past five seasons. If Duke can't attract 1,200 students for some of its home games, then UA drawing 700+ students to see Ball State is actually pretty decent.

I do wonder what percentage of OU's average home attendance of 6,000+ are students. At the very least, UA should try to be the best in the MAC.

Without looking, I would think that a lot of OU's average attendance is students, considering no one but students live anywhere near there.

[akzipper]

Without looking, I would think that a lot of OU's average attendance is students, considering no one but students live anywhere near there.

There's nothing to do in Athen's anyway, so yeah I'm not surprised they go watch basketball.