FBS/FCS Debate

[johnnyzip84]

Let's talk scenarios and probabilities. If UA were to drop to FCS, the following are the likely scenarios.

Entire MAC to FCS

Pros - keep biggest rivalry with K.E.N.T. , maintain other geographic rivalries, other sports aren't forced to find a new home

Cons - horrible timing coming off best MAC football season in history, probably less TV money

UA Drops to FCS and Joins MVC for Football

Pros - a slighty higher chance for success (win percentage), chance to play for a national championship

Cons - longer road trips, possible increase in travel expenses, Joe Akron knows less about SIU and NDSU than Ball St, MVC football ~ MAC football, need new home for other sports (GP1's A-10 suggestion is extremely unlikely in the current situation - talk to me when/if a new arena is built), probably less TV money

UA Drops to FCS and Joins CAA for Football

Pros - a higher chance for success (win percentage), chance to play for a national championship

Cons - longer road trips, possible increase in travel expenses, Joe Akron knows less about JMU and Delaware than Ball St, still need new home for other sports, probably less TV money

UA Drops to FCS and Goes Independent for Football

Pros - a considerably higher chance for success, chance to play for a national championship

Cons - scheduling will become difficult, might have to have more guarentees to get teams to travel to the Info, still need new home for other sports, probably less TV money

If you put a gun to my head and force FCS upon me, I'd probably opt for the last scenario. After all, we have a tremendous resource (VP) at our disposal for how to schedule pitifuly weak opponents early in the season, allowing your team to peak at the right time to make a playoff run. I just hope Joe Akron can tolerate watching Clarion and Edinboro every year. And is Mickey Monus out of jail yet?

Now let's consider the odds of winning the FCS championship versus playing in an FBS bowl game. In order to win the FCS championship, you must first get into the playoffs. Let's ask 'eguins how easy it's been for YSU to make the playoffs as members of the MVC. Typically, the MVC (or any other FCS conference) gets a maximum of 3 teams in the tournament. The MAC has 3 automatic bowl tie-ins (assuming enough eligible teams are available) and has played in more than 3 over the last few years. So Akron in the MVC has about as much chance of just getting into the FCS playoffs as playing in a bowl game as a member of the MAC. That might make the FCS indy option more appealing, but it might be hard to get that 1st invite (to the playoffs) without a network of coaches and AD's lobbying on your behalf.

The bottom line for me is I believe the current coaching staff will eventually succeed, whether UA is in the MAC, MVC, CAA or FCS-indy. This entire debate has been disproportionately colored by Ianello's epic 2 years of ineptitude. It's been 25 years at the FBS/1-A level, but it's only been a few years at the FBS/1-A level with legitimate FBS/1-A resources in place. How about waiting 3-4 years before throwing in the towel?

[Captain Kangaroo]

I still don't understand why we would have a better chance for success at a lower level than 1-A? I contend we would be of equivalent record at whatever level we sunk to.

And the debate is laughable anyhow. If TW would have hired a good coach instead making his own call with Ianello, we'd be winning football games and no one would care about 1-AA (no amount of marketing will ever stop me from calling it what it is). We now have a good coach. The wins will come.

F 1-AA, F 1-AA, F 1-AA!!!!

[K92]

I still don't understand why we would have a better chance for success at a lower level than 1-A? I contend we would be of equivalent record at whatever level we sunk to.

100% correct answer. Winning organizations win and Akron is not a winning organization. Dropping down a level is not going to turn Akron into a winner. Period. Anyone is certainly allowed to believe that FCS is a better destination for the Zips. It is not wrong to think that it is better to compete in a division that winning a National Championship is possible is better than to compete in a division where it is impossible. However, with that line of thinking, Every team in FBS but the blue bloods & about 10 other schools should make the drop as well because they are NEVER GOING TO WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. EVER.

Akron is trying to shed the loser albatross and become a winning organization. If they can succeed and "hit the heights" in the MAC ,become Toledo as some have suggested, perhaps then a discussion of the merits of dropping down may be legitimately discussed. But a loser organization dropping down is still going to be a loser organization. You just can't drop to FCS and pad your record because not every team in FCS performs at the level of the 2012 Morgan State Bears. Hello?!?

I am still hopeful that Terry Bowden is going to succeed in turning the Zips into a winner. I have put all my eggs in his basket.

GO ZIPS!

[GP1]

I hate an either/or discussion.

Change is going to happen and I don't see it as an FCS vs. FBS debate. At some point, a number of schools are going to decide they would like their own super division and those of us at the non-BCS level are going to stuck with our peckers in our hands. The question then will be I-AA or something in between I-AA and whatever super division is created. The handwriting is on the walls and it's going to happen at some point.

[Zips Win!]

I hate an either/or discussion.

Change is going to happen and I don't see it as an FCS vs. FBS debate. At some point, a number of schools are going to decide they would like their own super division and those of us at the non-BCS level are going to stuck with our peckers in our hands. The question then will be I-AA or something in between I-AA and whatever super division is created. The handwriting is on the walls and it's going to happen at some point.

Agree. But it may take a few years. And if this happens, the super division teams better play ONLY other super division teams. This "lower" level scheduling has to stop.

[GoZips]

For now ... stand pat.

The University is not going to drop a level in football no matter how you plead your case.

A major change for a fair number of schools is in the wind. Akron will be part of the mix.

The money backing this school is largely opposed to staying in the MAC (unless the MAC makes a lot of improvements).

This University has a number of strong selling points; not the least of which is location. GP1 was correct that the

football (thee major driver) was crippled by an INexperienced AD's blunder. The AD has shown repeatedly that he learned

from that mistake. The football program is now a righted ship and well on its way to becoming respectable. Patience

is the key.

The solution for UA is an improvement in conference. This yields more fans, better players, more revenue; it is a business

decision. Be patient. Stop clamoring for what you do not know what you are talking about and let the wise leaders guide.

[GP1]

For now ... stand pat.

Probably the best position. I have long advocated non-BCS schools actively leaving the level of play BCS schools play in, but I don't think there is the will or vision from the Presidents or ADs of those teams. It's hard for an AD to put on his resume, "Successfully moved my school from D1A to 'Tier X'", and the Presidents are the ones who were convinced new stadiums and practice facilities were all they needed to compete in D1A so they did it and if they undo it now, they look like even bigger fools for being duped by the witless people that are ADs. In almost every way, it is hopeless for non-BCS schools...and for many BCS schools as well.

In the end, we (meaning most non-BCS D1A schools) are going to get moved and not make a move of choice.

[GP1]

Agree. But it may take a few years. And if this happens, the super division teams better play ONLY other super division teams. This "lower" level scheduling has to stop.

There will be huge money in no longer playing non-BCS schools. My Wake Forest tickets already have different pricing depending on the quality of opponent. Imagine what could be charged for tickets for a September Alabama vs. Texas game, or something like that. There will be huge money in ticket sales. There will be huge money in Foundation donations necessary to get some of those tickets. There will be huge money in parking for those games. Most importantly, there will be huge money in selling TV advertisements for those games.

When the super conference is created and the money begins to roll in, schools won't be saying, "What were we thinking?" They will be saying, "Why the heck didn't we do this sooner?"

[LZIp]

There will be huge money in no longer playing non-BCS schools. My Wake Forest tickets already have different pricing depending on the quality of opponent. Imagine what could be charged for tickets for a September Alabama vs. Texas game, or something like that. There will be huge money in ticket sales. There will be huge money in Foundation donations necessary to get some of those tickets. There will be huge money in parking for those games. Most importantly, there will be huge money in selling TV advertisements for those games.

When the super conference is created and the money begins to roll in, schools won't be saying, "What were we thinking?" They will be saying, "Why the heck didn't we do this sooner?"

You are a Wake Forest fan?

Im not sure what you mean "imagine what could be charged"...the prices of games already vary depending on the quality of the opponent. Everything that you are saying "there will be" is already a reality.

[you am i]

I still don't understand why we would have a better chance for success at a lower level than 1-A? I contend we would be of equivalent record at whatever level we sunk to.

And the debate is laughable anyhow. If TW would have hired a good coach instead making his own call with Ianello, we'd be winning football games and no one would care about 1-AA (no amount of marketing will ever stop me from calling it what it is). We now have a good coach. The wins will come.

F 1-AA, F 1-AA, F 1-AA!!!!

You are a wise man.

[ZachTheZip]

There is no debate.

[Captain Kangaroo]

crippled by an INexperienced AD's blunder. The AD has shown repeatedly that he learned

from that mistake.

It was 12 months ago that said AD was left with said pecker in his hand.

It will be REALLY interesting to see if his contract is renewed/extended this summer. I will guess - no.

[akzipper]

Just that this keeps coming up is embarrassing. It's easy to break it down this way: If you are supporting FCS you have completely given up on the program. You don't ever want them to succeed and will be one of a few dozen fans left on saturdays watching the Zips play glorified high schools. If you support FBS you actually have hope for the future and are loyal fans. We are a big school, with amazing facilities there is no reason to give up!

Just remember this is online, for anyone to see. Do you really want Can't and OhioU fans who stalk Zipsnation to see this? Do you realize how embarrassing it is that some fans have given up on the program entirely.

[footballzip]

It was 12 months ago that said AD was left with said pecker in his hand.

It will be REALLY interesting to see if his contract is renewed/extended this summer. I will guess - no.

We are not going back to 1-AA. Remember 2005, MCC. We can get there again. Give this new staff a chance to turn things around. Be patient.

[LZIp]

Just that this keeps coming up is embarrassing. It's easy to break it down this way: If you are supporting FCS you have completely given up on the program. You don't ever want them to succeed and will be one of a few dozen fans left on saturdays watching the Zips play glorified high schools. If you support FBS you actually have hope for the future and are loyal fans. We are a big school, with amazing facilities there is no reason to give up!

Just remember this is online, for anyone to see. Do you really want Can't and OhioU fans who stalk Zipsnation to see this? Do you realize how embarrassing it is that some fans have given up on the program entirely.

This!!! We like to stalk OU and Cant boards and post little things like using the wrong form of "role". They will see this and have a field day with us

[GP1]

It will be REALLY interesting to see if his contract is renewed/extended this summer. I will guess - no.

If "no", he should be notified within the next couple of months. That will allow us to start a search and him to start looking for his next job selling tickets for a minor league baseball team.

[GP1]

You are a Wake Forest fan?

Im not sure what you mean "imagine what could be charged"...the prices of games already vary depending on the quality of the opponent. Everything that you are saying "there will be" is already a reality.

I have Wake season tickets for football. Makes me feel good when they win. Doesn't bother me much when they lose. I don't know if that makes me a fan or not. I would define myself as an "interested party".

If you think the money is big in ticket sales now, wait until teams like Alabama, etc. figure out they can sell tickets to a September Alabama vs. say OSU game for $350/per ticket and sell out their stadium.

[LZIp]

I have Wake season tickets for football. Makes me feel good when they win. Doesn't bother me much when they lose. I don't know if that makes me a fan or not. I would define myself as an "interested party".

If you think the money is big in ticket sales now, wait until teams like Alabama, etc. figure out they can sell tickets to a September Alabama vs. say OSU game for $350/per ticket and sell out their stadium.

Like I said, already happening

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/p...-football-games

[UAZipster0305]

I have Wake season tickets for football. Makes me feel good when they win. Doesn't bother me much when they lose. I don't know if that makes me a fan or not. I would define myself as an "interested party".

If you think the money is big in ticket sales now, wait until teams like Alabama, etc. figure out they can sell tickets to a September Alabama vs. say OSU game for $350/per ticket and sell out their stadium.

The enthusiasm for this among fans (and especially casual ones) would be huge and the ticket price adjusted accordingly by supply and demand. However, no AD or President from Alabama or OSU is going to want to compromise their shot at a playoff or National Championship game appearance for the sake of an OOC / early season big name game with little meaning. Regardless of how popular among fans, such games are even bigger when there is something at stake such as the advancement through a playoff round or the National Championship where such teams meet anyhow. Throughout the regular season, teams have to be nearly perfect in football to have high post-season aspirations. This is a major way football and basketball at this level are different. The ACC-Big 10 (or analogously SEC-Big 10) challenge would never happen in football.

[Dr Z]

Like I said, already happening

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/p...-football-games

That article is about ticket prices on the secondary ticketing websites.

The list below is from that article. I went to the Florida Georgia game this year, just looked at my ticket, I paid $60 face value.

I wasn't sitting front row, but I didn't have the worst seat either. $464 for a ticket for that game???

I would have felt like a fool after watching that "game" if I paid that.

Ten Most Expensive Games By Average Listed Ticket Price

1. Alabama @ LSU, $632.71

2. Michigan vs. Bama @ Cowboys Stadium, $595.42

3. Texas vs. Oklahoma @ Cotton Bowl, $541.39

4. Michigan @ Notre Dame, $525.39

5. Auburn @ Alabama, $481.66

6. Florida vs. Georgia @ Everbank Stadium, $463.82

7. Notre Dame v Miami @ Soldier Field, $448.69

8. Notre Dame @ Oklahoma, $419.47

9. Army vs. Navy @ Lincoln Financial Field, $401.31

10. Wisconsin @ Nebraska, $397.82

[Wally B]

I have Wake season tickets for football. Makes me feel good when they win. Doesn't bother me much when they lose. I don't know if that makes me a fan or not. I would define myself as an "interested party".

If you think the money is big in ticket sales now, wait until teams like Alabama, etc. figure out they can sell tickets to a September Alabama vs. say OSU game for $350/per ticket and sell out their stadium.

I have a serious question here.

(Say all non-aq teams form a new division between d1a and d1aa. We'll call it d1a/2 for arguements sake)

So what happens to the the AQ's If they grant the tv god's their wish and only play each other? Remember, not every AQ team is an Alabama or OSU. I'm sure Arizona -v- Indiana would be a huge draw. What happens when a fair amount of them are now left w/ losing records come bowl season and fans have to adjust to losing more games? In the end, you only diminish the precieved dominance of those conferences overall, and end up exaserbating their own second class programs who would then need to be booted (Duke, Wa St. etc.... i've been over this) Let's not forget the biggest programs are already more than willing to skip over lower AQ's and non-aq's to play d1aa teams; even the bottom feeders, and no one is forcing their hand. He*k FloridaST played two of em' this year and they still poop on NIU's schedule!

Better yet, how do the new d1a/2 teams feel about not playing those d1a teams anymore? Do the d1a/2 teams exclude the d1a and d1aa teams as well?

Most importantly, if we continue to play d1a teams, and now find ourselves absolutely excluded from the big bowls/championship how is that better for us? Yeeeaaahhh, we had an amazing 2018, could've gone to a big bowl and had an experience of a lifetime, but instead we're playing for the Grey cup! Whoohoo!!! NIU's 2012 team would be so proud, and those Boisie STate teams sure couldn't compete anyways....

No flame here, I totally respect your posts on here! I guess I just see the darker side and end game of the money game.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

LOVE the discussion! First to GoZips, any university insiders who believe that UA is attractive to a conference more substantial than the MAC, when we are talking football, are nuts. There is no measure which supports that this football program would appeal, well, to anyone. I could see UA ending in some tweener conference, but find it very interesting, if illogical, that one of the main arguments against dropping down is that the Zips might be no more competitive in, say, the MVC, than they are in the MAC. There is no logic in that assertion. If the Zips couldn't compete successfully in the MVC, then there can be no reasonable argument that they should remain in FBS.

UA is, at its core, a community asset, a long-time commuter school. I fully understand, and embrace, the vision of UA as a major state university. However, when it comes to football, the program just hasn't held up its part of the bargain. Most of the other athletic programs have at least pulled their weight when it comes to being solid citizens, and a couple of them are over achievers. Football, on the other hand, for reasons we'll argue forever, has never been able to "actually" become a true D-1/FBS program. Look at the recruiting classes, look at the schools that players pass UA up for, look at the crowds at the stadium, look at revenue (not) generated, look at respect garnered by other programs and UA's ability to attract home and aways. There is absolutely no measure that shows UA to be an "actual" FBS program. Now, to toss some salt into the wound, consider the present recruiting situation. If TB cannot recruit at UA, turn the lights off. I realize it's still early, but show me the beef. Where are "steals"? Where are the players who are saying they're looking seriously at Akron this off season? Where are JUCO players lining up to join the progrum? There's no more buzz this offseason than any other at Akron. Recruits see UA for what it is: the place to go when all other options are off the table, for whatever reason. They, and their coaches, know that it's not a genuine FBS program, and if they have any other viable options they aren't joining the Akron program.

I would love to see UA become FCS and prepare for the next jumble of college football. Become what you really already are UA. You currently recruit tweeners, guys who aren't genuine D-1 prospects, and then they get beaten and demoralized until they either become injured, leave the program or "make it" to graduation. How about recruiting those same players, tell them the truth, which is that they are FCS players and they are going to play an FCS schedule and win some damned games and have a blast. Embrace the community like the old days of Acme Zip. Bring in the locals who will pay to watch an FCS team that knows how to win and how to entertain.

Another point about Joe Akron. The very casual fan only knows what they see on TV. I think that for many, likely most, locals, there is no "attendance premium" placed on, say, any MAC school over, say, an MVC or other FCS program. No matter what football nerds think, Joe Akron, fan of the Big Ten, doesn't think of Northern Illinois as "high quality" football. Tell him that he can choose to watch Ball State or Illinois State, he'll shrug his shoulders and wonder whether there's a Big Ten game he can catch on the tube instead.

It's time to become the Akron Aeros. Don't continue the con any longer. This was NEVER really an FBS program.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

This!!! We like to stalk OU and Cant boards and post little things like using the wrong form of "role". They will see this and have a field day with us

Baloney. Discussion forums are for discussion. UA football is what it is, which is to say that the program has obviously failed to make the jump to D-1 football. You think that posters on other boards need these discussions to realize that fact? Do you think that the HS coaches who want to send their kids anywhere but UA are influenced by what the fans on a board have to say? No way man. Kids who are recruited to Akron know the deal. You and I know the deal. Posters on other boards do too. It's the truth.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I have a serious question here.

(Say all non-aq teams form a new division between d1a and d1aa. We'll call it d1a/2 for arguements sake)

So what happens to the the AQ's If they grant the tv god's their wish and only play each other? Remember, not every AQ team is an Alabama or OSU. I'm sure Arizona -v- Indiana would be a huge draw. What happens when a fair amount of them are now left w/ losing records come bowl season and fans have to adjust to losing more games? In the end, you only diminish the precieved dominance of those conferences overall, and end up exaserbating their own second class programs who would then need to be booted (Duke, Wa St. etc.... i've been over this) Let's not forget the biggest programs are already more than willing to skip over lower AQ's and non-aq's to play d1aa teams; even the bottom feeders, and no one is forcing their hand. He*k FloridaST played two of em' this year and they still poop on NIU's schedule!

Better yet, how do the new d1a/2 teams feel about not playing those d1a teams anymore? Do the d1a/2 teams exclude the d1a and d1aa teams as well?

Most importantly, if we continue to play d1a teams, and now find ourselves absolutely excluded from the big bowls/championship how is that better for us? Yeeeaaahhh, we had an amazing 2018, could've gone to a big bowl and had an experience of a lifetime, but instead we're playing for the Grey cup! Whoohoo!!! NIU's 2012 team would be so proud, and those Boisie STate teams sure couldn't compete anyways....

No flame here, I totally respect your posts on here! I guess I just see the darker side and end game of the money game.

As things stand currently, UA would "drop" to FCS, perhaps in football only, and would have to find a conference or go independent, as was described by JZ84. However, what happens when the obvious bifercation of the college football scene arrives (The Giganticon Mega Legacy Prestige League versus The All Loser You Suck League), then where will that leave ALL of the rest of the current FBS programs? Who knows? I would rather be proactive and find a good spot and level than wait for this continuous reshuffling that we've watched for the last year+. UA should just become what it is already and yes, if that means chasing the FCS championship in the good years, then that's what it is. If they can cobble something together with the castoffs that are coming very soon, so much the better.

[ZachTheZip]

There is no benefit to the FCS. Not financially, not in fan support, alumni interest, university reputation, competitiveness, nothing.

You are deluded if you think otherwise.