FBS/FCS Debate

[Spin]

Then most locals are clueless.

You dont love football if all you care to watch is a mythical championship.

What division was your high school?

If they had won the state championship at that level, would you consider it "mythical" if they weren't Division 1?

The OHSAA is restructuring the schools and Wadsworth is about to be dropped from Division 1 to Division 2. I don't hear a lot of crying because the D2 state championship is "meaningless". MOST people would be glad to play schools more our size, and not go up against schools that recruit (sometimes out of state) in the playoffs. How is that even fair?

I've never seen more people embrace the Peter Principle in one group.

[LZIp]

Bullshit. A team not in a "legacy" conference can run the table and still not sniff a prayer at making the national championship. All you hear is "Strength of Schedule" "But they didn't BEAT anybody".

Now let's assume for a minute MInnesota and Utah go 13-0, are they playing in the BCS Championship Game?

In other words, there are only 10-15 programs eligible to play in that game. Or win a Heisman.

This dream of seeing a MAC team playing Boise State in the BCS title game is pure fantasy.

IF there were an 8 team playoff someday, with 1 or 2 "at large" seeds, then I'm all in for Division I-A. Maybe when all the Gordon Gee's and SEC Networks of the world are dead and gone.

Maybe.

A team not in a legacy conference sure as hell can make it if they schedule a few good opponents in OOC along with getting help from power teams losing. TCU finished #3 in 2010 as well as 4th in 09. There is definitely "a sniff of a prayer"

I count 16 programs that have played in the BCS since its exception, so there's that.

I never said it WASNT a dream to see 2 mid majors playing in the BCS title game. The odds have certainly increased for ONE to make it with the playoff.

What division was your high school?

If they had won the state championship at that level, would you consider it "mythical" if they weren't Division 1?

The OHSAA is restructuring the schools and Wadsworth is about to be dropped from Division 1 to Division 2. I don't hear a lot of crying because the D2 state championship is "meaningless". MOST people would be glad to play schools more our size, and not go up against schools that recruit (sometimes out of state) in the playoffs. How is that even fair?

I've never seen more people embrace the Peter Principle in one group.

You are misinterpreting my post. I dont consider any championship where a team is required to go through the playoffs mythical. I consider championships mythical where you give one team a chance to play in the title game over another with the same record just because human's say they deserve it.

[Spin]

A team not in a legacy conference sure as hell can make it if they schedule a few good opponents in OOC along with getting help from power teams losing. TCU finished #3 in 2010 as well as 4th in 09. There is definitely "a sniff of a prayer"

Yet they have never played in the championship game. My whole point.

"Fine, Boise and TCU. You ran the table. Here's your consolation game, cuz there aint no way in hell you "belong" in the title game".

I count 16 programs that have played in the BCS since its exception, so there's that.

OK, 16 instead of 15. Pat yourself on the back.

You are misinterpreting my post. I dont consider any championship where a team is required to go through the playoffs mythical. I consider championships mythical where you give one team a chance to play in the title game over another with the same record just because human's say they deserve it.

So you agree the selection process is flawed and heavily weighted toward the legacy programs. Which is what you seem to be arguing against.

In your opinion is the BCS BS or worth trying to aspire to be a part of?

[Spin]

How do you explain schools like Cincinnati

We're already capable of losing to Toledo...

[LZIp]

Yet they have never played in the championship game. My whole point.

"Fine, Boise and TCU. You ran the table. Here's your consolation game, cuz there aint no way in hell you "belong" in the title game".

OK, 16 instead of 15. Pat yourself on the back.

So you agree the selection process is flawed and heavily weighted toward the legacy programs. Which is what you seem to be arguing against.

In your opinion is the BCS BS or worth trying to aspire to be a part of?

The current system is flawed. The playoffs (Which TCU would have been in twice) is improvement. When it expands to 8, it will be perfect. What they do with the remaining teams seems will yet to be seen. It is better to wait it out, while still being at the top level, than to drop to FCS and get left in the dust.

[GP1]

In other words, there are only 10-15 programs eligible to play in that game.

This is going to be the problem when a playoff is instituted....the number could actually become smaller.

Ever notice that it is basically the same teams every year in the playoffs of other divisions? Why is that? After years of success, they have a recruiting advantage over the other teams in their leagues. Mt. Union has a huge advantage in recruiting over the rest of the teams in their league. Teams that win tend to recruit well because good recruits want to go to teams that win. There is a greater connection between recruiting and winning than winning and say...indoor practice arenas (but don't tell any athletic directors).

The worst thing to happen to any business (major college football is a business) is a monopoly. Mt. Union has such a monopoly over DIII that their winning/being in their national championship game isn't even an interesting story at this point. Even Terry Pluto probably rolls his eyes at the prospect of having to write another story about them. Major college football can't get to that level and the people at the ncaa aren't smart enough to figure out how to make it competitive from top to bottom.

This is why a division of say 60 schools will need to be created to play at the highest level and have a playoff. Ideally, they would not be part of the ncaa, but if they are, the ncaa needs to hire a person with experience in the NFL to bring in a structure that will help to prevent monopolies from springing up. A layout of divisions and scheduling designed to create competitive games early in the season for those teams that had success they year before is the best way to do it. Never punish teams for success, just make it more difficult the following year to have the same success. The NFL did it for decades and it became the most competitive/popular league in North America.

[Zips Win!]

The current system is flawed. The playoffs (Which TCU would have been in twice) is improvement. When it expands to 8, it will be perfect.

Baloney.

When it goes to 8, the idea of strength of scheduling being crucial in picking the teams is out the window.

Keep it at 4 and make every team play a competitive schedule. If your conference blows, find another one.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

All of this talk of FBS structure and the coming 8-team playoff is about as relevant to Akron as Best Buy's last executive restructuring was to its store clerks. It is only meaningful because somehow the shiite from the resulting changes will roll down onto the UA program. In the abstract, yes, such things are part of the UA universe, but in the real world UA maintains no connection to the world of FBS playoffs. Akron is D-1A in name only. That's the fact. Akron is the team that travels to Big Ten and SEC stadiums to be crushed for some extra cash every year. You don't have to maintain the D-1A FBS moniker to play on the killing fields every year. Akron is not, and never will be, the team that is relevant to the larger "bigtime" discussion.

None of this should be construed as my non-love for the program. I want UA to succeed. I want this to be a proud and winning program. That is never, ever going to happen at the major college football level. It was worth a shot when they tried, but it is not going to happen and that is clear now to anyone who will open their eyes and use objectivity and examine the facts. It is defeatist and illogical to continue further down this FBS road for Akron. I just wish that the power brokers running the university would realize what a black eye the continued losing and futility, right on the corner of Sicer and Exchange, present on the face of the university. It's way beyond time to regroup and examine where this program belongs. This is an FCS program. A potential FCS powerhouse. That's the slot for this program.

[Spin]

The current system is flawed. The playoffs (Which TCU would have been in twice) is improvement. When it expands to 8, it will be perfect. What they do with the remaining teams seems will yet to be seen. It is better to wait it out, while still being at the top level, than to drop to FCS and get left in the dust.

But that's just it. The whole basis for staying in D1A is nothing but hypotheticals.

IF Akron becomes a MAC powerhouse

IF Akron becomes a perennial top 10 program.

IF there is an 8 team playoff one day (going against all the people making million$ off the bowl system)

IF the 8 team playoff allows someone besides the legacy conference in (going against all of the elitist "legacy" program/conference presidents who run college football)

IF the NCAA continues to ignore the attendance requirements and allows half the MAC to remain in I-A

That's a LOT of IF's in my book. A lot of dreaming. If I were a gambling man, I would bet on becoming a dominant DI-AA program, playing for playoff spots, winning games, and drawing really nice crowds to the Info.

[akzipper]

Even after 8 pages of being proven wrong you don't give up. You're ready to give up on Akron's football program so easily, why not give up on this argument? Stop calling yourselves fans, and go watch Mount Union if you want irrelevant football.

[Spin]

Even after 8 pages of being proven wrong you don't give up. You're ready to give up on Akron's football program so easily, why not give up on this argument? Stop calling yourselves fans, and go watch Mount Union if you want irrelevant football.

How can an opinion be wrong?

Get over yourself.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Even after 8 pages of being proven wrong you don't give up. You're ready to give up on Akron's football program so easily, why not give up on this argument? Stop calling yourselves fans, and go watch Mount Union if you want irrelevant football.

I grew up in Akron. I remember the old Portage Hotel. I remember when the little electric band over the door at Luigi's worked, and the tables had juke box selectors on them. I remember when the towpath was but a dream. I attended Acme Zips games when I was a kid. I graduated from the UofA. I remember eating at the Chuckery. I drank at the Townhouse and the Sun. I have been a member here longer than you have, and I'll be here after you're gone. I'll still be a fan, albeit from afar, when Luis gets his head out of his anus and realizes what folly it is to remain stuck in the mud of the shitty MAC and returns this team to its proper level of play.

[LZIp]

I grew up in Akron. I remember the old Portage Hotel. I remember when the little electric band over the door at Luigi's worked, and the tables had juke box selectors on them. I remember when the towpath was but a dream. I attended Acme Zips games when I was a kid. I graduated from the UofA. I remember eating at the Chuckery. I drank at the Townhouse and the Sun. I have been a member here longer than you have, and I'll be here after you're gone. I'll still be a fan, albeit from afar, when Luis gets his head out of his anus and realizes what folly it is to remain stuck in the mud of the shitty MAC and returns this team to its proper level of play.

The MAC is shitty, but the FCS isnt?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

The MAC is shitty, but the FCS isnt?

The MAC is the lowest form of life in FBS. The MAC is like eating fiber. It makes me sad. To be a winning program in a solid FCS situation would actually provide merriment, a sense of football belonging. It would be kind of like being an Aeros fan. No, whether the Aeros win is not life or death, but when you go to see an Aeros game on a nice Summer evening the world is right. That's how Saturday games at the Info could be with UA in FCS. No, you aren't going to ever have the chance to see UA in the Gigantor Douchebag Bowl presented by Old Dutch at Tampa Sadness Stadium, but you'll have fans in the seats, you'll have the chance to win games, to get into a playoff and the sun may actually shine in Akron again.

[LZIp]

The MAC is the lowest form of life in FBS. The MAC is like eating fiber. It makes me sad. To be a winning program in a solid FCS situation would actually provide merriment, a sense of football belonging. It would be kind of like being an Aeros fan. No, whether the Aeros win is not life or death, but when you go to see an Aeros game on a nice Summer evening the world is right. That's how Saturday games at the Info could be with UA in FCS. No, you aren't going to ever have the chance to see UA in the Gigantor Douchebag Bowl presented by Old Dutch at Tampa Sadness Stadium, but you'll have fans in the seats, you'll have the chance to win games, to get into a playoff and the sun may actually shine in Akron again.

Never been to an Aeros game in my life. Could care less about minor leagues. Also, the MAC is probably the best Non-AQ conference, as well as being better than the Big East

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Better than WHICH Big East? The MAC is absolutely the lowest denomination at the FBS level. There is NO BIg East team (talking about pre-break up here) that would have chosen the MAC over the Big East. None. Fans here have been hoping and praying that somehow, some way, UA would find its way to the Big East. Does the Big East even exist after this year anymore?

Akron is on the outside looking in, when it comes to FBS football. You may wish it weren't the case, but that's the way it is.

I'll still drink beer with you though LZip. First one's on you.

[GP1]

The MAC is shitty, but the FCS isnt?

Actually, no it isn't. I've been to App State games where their stadium is packed with around 28,000. That happens every home game up there. People drive from all around to watch them play because the place is in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. A full stadium like this could happen every week for Akron. The people who go App State games actually pay for their own tickets as well, which seems to be our stumbling block at Akron as the community is conditioned for free tickets.

Ever watch the I-AA playoffs. The kids are playing their butts off and the quality of play is very good. It's like watching a bowl game between, say CMU and WKU, except a national championship is on the line and not a trophy for having the team that was willing to show up and play hard in an exhibition.

It's debatable, but non BCS football is better than I-AA. In my opinion, the MAC champion would easily beat the Southern Conference champion in a meaningful game. The MAC is just a little bigger and a little faster all around. NIU is a much better team than anyone in the So. Con. My point being, it isn't I-AA or D1A. It's a league between with all of the other non BCS teams.

[Hilltopper]

Can somebody stick a fork in this sucker? It's done! :horse: :horse:

[Blue & Gold]

Can somebody stick a fork in this sucker? It's done! :horse: :horse:

Thaaaaank you.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Perhaps it's done for Hilltopper and B&G, which means that when you see the thread header, you do not click on it. See how easy that is?

[LZIp]

Better than WHICH Big East? The MAC is absolutely the lowest denomination at the FBS level. There is NO BIg East team (talking about pre-break up here) that would have chosen the MAC over the Big East. None. Fans here have been hoping and praying that somehow, some way, UA would find its way to the Big East. Does the Big East even exist after this year anymore?

Akron is on the outside looking in, when it comes to FBS football. You may wish it weren't the case, but that's the way it is.

I'll still drink beer with you though LZip. First one's on you.

Better than the current Big East. The past is irrelevant. The current WAC, along with their D2 additions is better than the MAC? You're crazy. Any fan that wants to join the Big East now in all sports is crazy as well.

Curious what your definition of "looking in" is? What should schools be looking for in FBS?

Im sure people would have said Can't St was on the outside looking in as well....well until this year happened.

[Zips Win!]

All of this talk of FBS structure and the coming 8-team playoff is about as relevant to Akron as Best Buy's last executive restructuring was to its store clerks. It is only meaningful because somehow the shiite from the resulting changes will roll down onto the UA program. In the abstract, yes, such things are part of the UA universe, but in the real world UA maintains no connection to the world of FBS playoffs. Akron is D-1A in name only. That's the fact. Akron is the team that travels to Big Ten and SEC stadiums to be crushed for some extra cash every year. You don't have to maintain the D-1A FBS moniker to play on the killing fields every year. Akron is not, and never will be, the team that is relevant to the larger "bigtime" discussion.

None of this should be construed as my non-love for the program. I want UA to succeed. I want this to be a proud and winning program. That is never, ever going to happen at the major college football level. It was worth a shot when they tried, but it is not going to happen and that is clear now to anyone who will open their eyes and use objectivity and examine the facts. It is defeatist and illogical to continue further down this FBS road for Akron. I just wish that the power brokers running the university would realize what a black eye the continued losing and futility, right on the corner of Sicer and Exchange, present on the face of the university. It's way beyond time to regroup and examine where this program belongs. This is an FCS program. A potential FCS powerhouse. That's the slot for this program.

So, if you took the above argument you made for UA(actually against UA), would you also make the same argument for Toledo and slot them into the FCS?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

So, if you took the above argument you made for UA(actually against UA), would you also make the same argument for Toledo and slot them into the FCS?

??? Where/how do you draw Toledo into this, based on what I said in that post? Toledo is one of the vaunted (he said facetiously)

MAC powerhouse programs right? Isn't becoming Toledo the goal, almost 30 years later? Do you suppose we'll get there by year 60? Will you or I be alive when we get there? Were the University presidents fools who, for decades, did not try to compete with the likes of Ohio State and even the MAC? IN what ways has it benefited the university to have become D-1A/FBS? Has revenue increased? Has attendance grown? The prestige of the program?

[LZIp]

??? Where/how do you draw Toledo into this, based on what I said in that post? Toledo is one of the vaunted (he said facetiously)

MAC powerhouse programs right? Isn't becoming Toledo the goal, almost 30 years later? Do you suppose we'll get there by year 60? Will you or I be alive when we get there? Were the University presidents fools who, for decades, did not try to compete with the likes of Ohio State and even the MAC? IN what ways has it benefited the university to have become D-1A/FBS? Has revenue increased? Has attendance grown? The prestige of the program?

Id venture to say yes and yes. Not sure about "prestige", but I guarantee a lot more people know of Akron now than when they were in FCS,

[Spin]

Id venture to say yes and yes. Not sure about "prestige", but I guarantee a lot more people know of Akron now than when they were in FCS,

Because of he football program?