Arena Update

[GP1]

Here is a picture I took after the women's game with GMU in December:

Those seats almost look useful.

[Blue & Gold]

I'm as big an Akron/UA/LeBron fan as anyone. However, LBJ doesn't have that kind of money.

It needs to be a company sponsorship. LBJ may be able to afford naming rights for the court, but not an arena.

My heart sank a little bit when I heard of FirstEnergy paying for the Cleveland Brown's Stadium naming rights. They were my best bet for a big endorsement.

[akzipper]

Good post. I heard a story last night on the Charlotte news that the Panthers are looking into selling BofA Stadium to the City of Charlotte just to get out from having to maintain the stadium. In exchange for the City of Charlotte pouring millions of taxpayers dollars into the stadium for renovation (they were interviewing a woman on the streets of Charlotte who looked like wino and she explained the importance of the stadium to the City of Charlotte...it was one of the more laughable things I have ever seen on local news. Who needs Comedy Central when you can watch the local news?), the Panthers would sign a long term lease to remain in the City.

Maybe I'm remembering the story wrong, but weren't some of the new UA residence halls financed in a similar way? They partnered with a private organization to build them, but UA owns the lease?

[Dave in Green]

I've seen references here and heard references outside this forum that suggest that Duke's basketball facility is nothing more than a little high school gym. Cameron Indoor Stadium was designed in 1935 and construction was completed in 1940. While it may be gym-like in design, the original seating capacity was 8,800, with enough standing room for another 700 and a total capacity of 9,500. So while it's not fancy in comparison to modern arenas, it was no small gym when it was built. But it's certainly a good point to note that a good, winning basketball team like Duke does not necessarily require a state-of-the-art arena to draw big crowds.

[skip-zip]

If a smaller or reduced seating capacity was even an option. you would see it in a renovated JAR, not in a brand new arena.

[ZachTheZip]

If a smaller or reduced seating capacity was even an option. you would see it in a renovated JAR, not in a brand new arena.

Exactly.

[GP1]

But it's certainly a good point to note that a good, winning basketball team like Duke does not necessarily require a state-of-the-art arena to draw big crowds.

Well said. It's about winning, not stadium size.

[a-zip]

I've seen references here and heard references outside this forum that suggest that Duke's basketball facility is nothing more than a little high school gym. Cameron Indoor Stadium was designed in 1935 and construction was completed in 1940. While it may be gym-like in design, the original seating capacity was 8,800, with enough standing room for another 700 and a total capacity of 9,500. So while it's not fancy in comparison to modern arenas, it was no small gym when it was built. But it's certainly a good point to note that a good, winning basketball team like Duke does not necessarily require a state-of-the-art arena to draw big crowds.

I have always though the same thing. Cameron is not big..I dont think it has loges either, in fact it reminds me of the JAR in size. You do not appoach it and say WOW (outside of the beautiful campus surrounding it). I am not an engineer but I think it seems possible to retrofit the JAR with all chairback seats to seat 5K and be loud as shit. G t rid of the f(^*ing track.

[a-zip]

I have always though the same thing. Cameron is not big..I dont think it has loges either, in fact it reminds me of the JAR in size. You do not appoach it and say WOW (outside of the beautiful campus surrounding it). I am not an engineer but I think it seems possible to retrofit the JAR with all chairback seats to seat 5K and be loud as shit. G t rid of the f(^*ing track.

Make it quaint, intimate, loud, cool, fun....and ultimately exclusive.

[RootforRoo44]

I've seen references here and heard references outside this forum that suggest that Duke's basketball facility is nothing more than a little high school gym. Cameron Indoor Stadium was designed in 1935 and construction was completed in 1940. While it may be gym-like in design, the original seating capacity was 8,800, with enough standing room for another 700 and a total capacity of 9,500. So while it's not fancy in comparison to modern arenas, it was no small gym when it was built. But it's certainly a good point to note that a good, winning basketball team like Duke does not necessarily require a state-of-the-art arena to draw big crowds.

Great points...but Cameron and the JAR are two different animals in terms of aesthetics. The JAR is far dumpier...in so many ways.

[Dave in Green]

Great points...but Cameron and the JAR are two different animals in terms of aesthetics. The JAR is far dumpier...in so many ways.

Heck, yes. You can easily find the following on Wikipedia: Cameron was designed by Julian Abele, who had studied at the Ecole des Beaux Arts in Paris, France. Abele contributed to the design of more than 400 buildings, including Harvard University’s Widener Memorial Library (1915), Monmouth University's Shadow Lawn Mansion (1927), the Central Branch of the Free Library of Philadelphia (1927), and the Philadelphia Museum of Art (1914-28); and was the primary designer for the campus of Duke University (1924-54).

The JAR was designed by the lowest bidder.

[GP1]

Make it quaint, intimate, loud, cool, fun....and ultimately exclusive.

Bingo!

[akzipper]

Building a small arena will destroy this basketball program.

Name a big-time basketball program with an arena under 6,000.

[ZachTheZip]

Building a small arena will destroy this basketball program.

Name a big-time basketball program with an arena under 6,000.

Hell, name a decent mid-major with one under 5,000.

[infofan]

mcCarthy athletic center, built about 2005 for a small program called Gonzaga, holds just 6000. It serves their needs fine- they could use the 14000 seat Spokane arena if they wanted but they dont. It was built for 25million which they say translates into 35million in 2013 dollars. Not a palace but not a jar either!

[GP1]

mcCarthy athletic center, built about 2005 for a small program called Gonzaga, holds just 6000. It serves their needs fine- they could use the 14000 seat Spokane arena if they wanted but they dont. It was built for 25million which they say translates into 35million in 2013 dollars. Not a palace but not a jar either!

Are you saying the good players and good coaching don't make Gonzaga a great mid major program and nationally ranked? I've learned from years of reading this board and following the leadership of UofA that the opposite is true. It's arenas and exposure that make a good team, not on court performance. Follow group thinking dude. It is always right.

EDIT: The above statement is not true. BB&T sponsors the Myrtle Beach minor league baseball stadium and will soon have their name on the Charlotte Knights stadium. They are also the sponsor of Wake Forest's football stadium. The do have more of a professional reach than college. I would consider PNC putting their name on an arena for UofA just as good as putting it on a Class A stadium in Myrtle Beach. People would see it more than three months a year.

[GP1]

My heart sank a little bit when I heard of FirstEnergy paying for the Cleveland Brown's Stadium naming rights. They were my best bet for a big endorsement.

Businesses can put their name on a lot of things. There is a bank here in the Carolinas called BB&T. I don't know if they are in the north or not, but it is a good business. They sponsor a lot of arenas below the professional level. UofA should go to Key bank and some of the midwest regional banks and see what they can work out if they already haven't.

[Dr Z]

Businesses can put their name on a lot of things. There is a bank here in the Carolinas called BB&T. I don't know if they are in the north or not, but it is a good business. They sponsor a lot of arenas below the professional level. UofA should go to Key bank and some of the midwest regional banks and see what they can work out if they already haven't.

We have the 5th largest bank in the US, PNC (Pittsburgh) in the Cleveland/Akron area they aquired all the NCB (Cleveland) banks. Maybe we can have PNC Arena?

[akzipper]

mcCarthy athletic center, built about 2005 for a small program called Gonzaga, holds just 6000. It serves their needs fine- they could use the 14000 seat Spokane arena if they wanted but they dont. It was built for 25million which they say translates into 35million in 2013 dollars. Not a palace but not a jar either!

Exactly my point. No big time program would have below 6000. And I agree with the other post about no decent mid-majors below 5000.

But hey 3000 at Akron is totally acceptable!

[GP1]

We have the 5th largest bank in the US, PNC (Pittsburgh) in the Cleveland/Akron area they aquired all the NCB (Cleveland) banks. Maybe we can have PNC Arena?

For those who have never been to PNC Park for a Pirates game, there is a real treat there. In the restrooms, all of the urinals face the field so you can see the game going on while you relieve yourself. That's why they call it PNC Park.

[GP1]

TD Arena is where College of Charleston plays. 5,100 seats.

It is a beautiful place and to go from 5,100 seats to a number between 6,000 and 7,000 would cost more, but you never know how much more until you have a look. The biggest change I would make, in addition to seating capacity, is the location of the seats. I would have two large upper decks on the sides and no upper decks behind the baskets. It would make the building taller and cost more because of that, but if there is the money to do it, then do it.

TD Arena is a great place to see a college basketball game.

Getting back to the regional bank idea. TD Bank is the sponsor of the Boston Garden and a minor league stadium in New Jersey. Akron needs to find a way to work with a regional bank if they haven't already.

[Dave in Green]

Just did a little research for some perspective on college basketball attendance:

5,190 = the average attendance for all NCAA DI games (including tournaments) last season (2011-2012).

5,641 = the peak average attendance, which occurred in the 1994-1995 season.

4,759 = the earliest average attendance available from the NCAA (1975-1976 season).

So although last season's average attendance was up over the one 36 years ago, the trend over the last 15 years has been slowly downward. Speculation is that in recent years this is at least partially the result of the increasing availability of TV broadcasts and webcasts of games.

A general conclusion that could be drawn from the above is that the average team considering a new arena should not oversize the capacity based on expectations of a steadily increasing attendance. Odds are that live attendance at college basketball games is likely to increase only for those teams that have a dramatic improvement in performance and a higher level of name opponents. In other words, UA needs to realistically analyze where the basketball program is at present and where it's going in the future based on the university's level of commitment in order to make the smartest investment in sizing a new basketball arena.

[RootforRoo44]

For those who have never been to PNC Park for a Pirates game, there is a real treat there. In the restrooms, all of the urinals face the field so you can see the game going on while you relieve yourself. That's why they call it PNC Park.

Now THAT is funny.

[GP1]

Just did a little research for some perspective on college basketball attendance:

5,190 = the average attendance for all NCAA DI games (including tournaments) last season (2011-2012).

5,641 = the peak average attendance, which occurred in the 1994-1995 season.

4,759 = the earliest average attendance available from the NCAA (1975-1976 season).

So although last season's average attendance was up over the one 36 years ago, the trend over the last 15 years has been slowly downward. Speculation is that in recent years this is at least partially the result of the increasing availability of TV broadcasts and webcasts of games.

A general conclusion that could be drawn from the above is that the average team considering a new arena should not oversize the capacity based on expectations of a steadily increasing attendance. Odds are that live attendance at college basketball games is likely to increase only for those teams that have a dramatic improvement in performance and a higher level of name opponents. In other words, UA needs to realistically analyze where the basketball program is at present and where it's going in the future based on the university's level of commitment in order to make the smartest investment in sizing a new basketball arena.

Good stuff Dave. The numbers are a lot lower than I thought they would be.

College basketball has been and increasingly becoming a made for TV sport. My evidence is NCAA Tournament games on the east coast start at prime time and carry past midnight making the experience miserable for the people at the game, but tolerable for those at home who might want to turn in early, at which point the west coast audience picks up.

If "exposure" matters, is it better to have your games on TV with a smaller packed arena, or a large half empty arena? Half empty arenas are Mickey Mouse and short sighted, which is whey athletic directors support such arenas. They don't care that the stadium sits half empty after it is built because they have already moved on to their next job. Smaller, loud, packed arenas with people enjoying a high level of play are great for TV and the exposure we want.

[akzipper]

Good stuff Dave. The numbers are a lot lower than I thought they would be.

College basketball has been and increasingly becoming a made for TV sport. My evidence is NCAA Tournament games on the east coast start at prime time and carry past midnight making the experience miserable for the people at the game, but tolerable for those at home who might want to turn in early, at which point the west coast audience picks up.

If "exposure" matters, is it better to have your games on TV with a smaller packed arena, or a large half empty arena? Half empty arenas are Mickey Mouse and short sighted, which is whey athletic directors support such arenas. They don't care that the stadium sits half empty after it is built because they have already moved on to their next job. Smaller, loud, packed arenas with people enjoying a high level of play are great for TV and the exposure we want.

Sorry I have no interest in watching our zips play in a glorified high school gym on tv. There is nothing more embarrassing than a school like Akron building an arena of 3000.