South Carolina Version 2.0

[Zipgrad1990]

Is it football season yet? A year ago I would never have said that.

The good news about this game is they played so bad they can't get any worse.

Most years we play poor during the OOC portion of the schedule, then good during the MAC schedule so hopefully this will be a year like all the rest.

The problem is winning the MAC and going to the NCAA tournament has little meaning when we just get blown out in those games. I hate having a team built for just the MAC.

[Dr Z]

I hate having a team built for just the MAC.

Not picking on you, but what does that mean?

The problem is winning the MAC and going to the NCAA tournament...

A lot is going to have to change for that to happen this year.

[Dave in Green]

South Carolina was the perfect storm to totally expose all the Zips' weaknesses, and there are many weaknesses that need to be worked on. The Zips' string of 22-game winning seasons is definitely facing its biggest challenge this season. This team can still develop into a very good MAC team, but will be seriously challenged by several other teams for the championship. If they make it to the NCAA tournament, we should all pray that they get a favorable matchup. If they have to go up against a nationally ranked team with a playing style that exposes their weaknesses, it could get as ugly as last season's VCU game.

Whoever started the rumor that South Carolina is a horrible team based on their early season results was way off. The Gamecocks are loaded with freshmen. They start 3 freshmen and a sophomore. You would expect them to look horrible in their first few games. But they're quickly coming together under Frank Martin, who had a heck of a coaching record at Kansas State. As the season goes on, the Gamecocks will be causing problems for better teams than the Zips.

[zippy5]

That was a joke. I'm glad I was in an airport that blocked video streaming, would have puked on someone

[skip-zip]

They beat us physically, just like the first time. The only difference is that they hit a few more shots this time. Had they hit shots in the first game, that game would have been a 30+ blowout also.

Going back several games now, I think the effort the guts and the focus, which have been trademarks of so many of Dambrot's Akron teams, is not there right now. This team needs to find a Dials or a Linhart very soon.

[GP1]

I'll post review tomorrow after I calm down. That was horrible. Having beer in Carolina Ale House and SCs call ACH is having a beer and god time a couple of tables over.

[Zipgrad01]

I went on Rivals message board a few minutes ago and one of the topics is "Gamecocks beat Akron twice in bball, I feel like OSU in football". They called us a bottom feeder mid-major program.

Wow....for anyone that thinks we have ANY sort of respect on a national level think again. Shitting your pants every time you are on national television will do that I guess.

[Dave in Green]

@Zipgrad01, seriously? You feel worse about today's loss because you read a post on a Rivals forum about how bad the Zips are? So a few hundred people may read that forum, while the TV audience of many thousands today heard the announcers repeat over and over again what a great basketball program UA has had over the past decade. If you're really in to making yourself feel bad, be sure to also read the Bobkitty and Can't forums, because they will be dissing the Zips big time as well. This is what rivals do when you're already down -- they rub it in really hard to make you slink off into a corner and want to slit your wrists. But, really, why does any Zips fan need to read anything outside of ZN.o to feel worse than they already do after today's game?

[Zipgrad01]

@Zipgrad01, seriously? You feel worse about today's loss because you read a post on a Rivals forum about how bad the Zips are? So a few hundred people may read that forum, while the TV audience of many thousands today heard the announcers repeat over and over again what a great basketball program UA has had over the past decade. If you're really in to making yourself feel bad, be sure to also read the Bobkitty and Can't forums, because they will be dissing the Zips big time as well. This is what rivals do when you're already down -- they rub it in really hard to make you slink off into a corner and want to slit your wrists. But, really, why does any Zips fan need to read anything outside of ZN.o to feel worse than they already do after today's game?

No. I dont feel any worse having read that. It is pretty much on par with what I expect to hear from the large national universities fans. I did not go on that forum to discuss zips basketball. I just happened to see the topic while I was scrolling through.

The tv audience may have heard the announcers talking about our success, but the product they saw on the floor made it all irrelevant. That is what happens when you only beat cupcakes and have no signature wins to validate your win/loss record.

[Valpo Zip]

Don't pet yourself on the shoulder. The gamecocks are not that good. They have 7 freshmen and a transfer player. They lost to USC upstate and you will see how they fare in their conference play.

Losing is one thing. Getting blown by 33 is another thing

Now I am ready for the "only march games matter" and the "we are better than Hipsher era" responses.

[a-zip]

Heeeeree we go. Likely the same people wanting Embick's head early in the year and who thought Bowden was fumbling now want Dambrot's head....unreal!!! Do what you usually do Akron, stop coming to the games ;-)

[The Hip Zip]

Lets take a positive out of this mess.......

We have mastered the art of aimlessly dribbling 30 feet from the hoop and acting like we have never seen a zone before.

[RACER]

like a zips said. if you don't like the team. don't go to the games. nobody is forcing anyone to watch them tv. maybe it makes some middle age zip fans

better about themselves. when the rip on teenagers, and kids in their early 20's who just lost a game.one of the football coaches iust died in a car wreck.

that's real life, and a terrible thing to happen to someone. losing a basketball game does not mean anything compared to that. judge not and you will not be judged. maybe some of you might want to remember that when you are posting.

[RACER]

you mean the Can't state team that lost to csu. the same csu we beat at their place.

[K92]

Do what you usually do Akron, stop coming to the games ;-)

I expect attendance to be very sparse on Tuesday.

[Hilltopper]

I expect attendance to be very sparse on Tuesday.

Considering it's New Years Eve, I wouldn't find that too surprising no mater what.

[Balsy]

like a zips said. if you don't like the team. don't go to the games. nobody is forcing anyone to watch them tv. maybe it makes some middle age zip fans

better about themselves. when the rip on teenagers, and kids in their early 20's who just lost a game.one of the football coaches iust died in a car wreck.

that's real life, and a terrible thing to happen to someone. losing a basketball game does not mean anything compared to that. judge not and you will not be judged. maybe some of you might want to remember that when you are posting.

What the heck are you talking about? This is a fan forum...where fans come to talk about their team. Both the good and the Bad. Of course we're going to rip on the team, as well as sing their praises. And we're not "judging" anyone other than that which they can be judged...the play on the arena. Yes we had a coach die at Akron (not basketball), we had one of the coaches nephews die as well (not basketball) and a coach who is fighting cancer (Basketball). That is tough, but it isn't likely a large contributing factor to this team. The reason we are losing games seems to be systemic of something else, and we the fans are discussing that, voicing our concern about it.

Did you ever consider that we may be criticizing these early 20's somethings because we believe they aren't living up to the potential that we know they have? Remember that yourself before bashing your fellow fans.

[Dave in Green]

@Balsy, some good thoughts there. We're all posting on this forum because we're Zips fans. We're all on the same side. The enemy is not us. We just have different perspectives and different thoughts on what might be wrong and what might be done to help correct the problems. Primal screams may work for some fans to relieve the frustration of seeing the Zips perform at a lower level than expected. But what's more interesting and productive is thoughtful analysis from many different perspectives. My observation from reading ZN.o for nearly a decade is that no one poster has all the answers on any issue, but the collective work of all forum members taken together can produce some pretty insightful observations.

Some of the things we're debating right now will be proved out over the rest of the season. For example, there's a wide variety of opinion on just how good is that South Carolina team that just destroyed our Zips. That will be easily resolved as the rest of the season plays out, and I'm sure I won't be the only one checking how well the Gamecocks do in upcoming games.

As far as what's wrong with the Zips, I think we had a pretty good handle on some of the problems before the first game of the season. We knew that the Zips played pretty good defense prior to Zeke's arrival, that they learned to rely on Zeke to protect the rim for 4 seasons, and that with Zeke gone they're having to re-learn how to play better team defense. We also know that we lost our best PG and had no one this season who had shown that they could play PG at a consistently high level. After a few games we learned that the guy many consider the Zips' best player and a key to this season's success became so frustrated that he wasn't sure he was enjoying basketball. Those 3 problems alone would be enough to account for most of the Zips' mediocre performance, and there are likely other, smaller problems as well. Unless the 3 main problems are corrected, focusing on the lesser problems will probably not make a huge impact on game results.

[skip-zip]

@Zipgrad01, seriously? You feel worse about today's loss because you read a post on a Rivals forum about how bad the Zips are? So a few hundred people may read that forum, while the TV audience of many thousands today heard the announcers repeat over and over again what a great basketball program UA has had over the past decade.

Come on Dave. The "they can beat MAC-level teams, but flop against teams at a higher level" perception will linger as long as this pattern continues. Nothing anyone says is going to change that right now. Heck, even people right here in AKRON that don't follow Akron basketball as closely as you and I feel this way. So, you can only imagine the perception among those who only see us during an occasional national broadcast. And that perception is the only thing that matters to the basketball fans, writers, coaches, selection committees, etc., outside of Akron, who are the people that will ultimately matter if we want to elevate our national stature.

[akronzips71]

Debbie Downer here:

Right now they don't look like they can beat the worst team in the MAC.

They are a disorganized rabble.

Something seems to be wrong with Tree. He just looks like he is going through the motions. They need to cure that before anything good can happen. Maybe he is ill, maybe it is girl trouble, I have no idea, but we know there was an issue a few weeks ago and apparently it is not cured.

This year, maybe KD has to abandon his normal rotation and go with just 6 players. They seem to be out of synch, passing the ball where the player is not. Maybe it is just too many guys in the mix for the personnel we have now. They are not playing as a cohesive unit.

Time to get back to basics. Passing and shooting free throws. And time to stop pulling the hot player. Deji has probably been playing the best of anyone, along side Q, and he hits a three or blocks two shots and immediately comes out of the game and in goes Jake to miss a few threes. The player with the hot hand has to get the minutes.

Melo came in and immediately turned the ball over. No more Melo. He is not a D1 player.

Maybe KD needs to take them all out to a house of ill repute or something to get them all working together on the same page.

[Dave in Green]

Come on Skip. I'm well aware of all the negatives. Are you aware of any positives? Relax your laser focus on the negatives for a few minutes and go back and read the perception of the Zips among basketball fans, writers, coaches, selection committees, etc., outside of Akron during last season's 19-game winning streak and national ranking.

[Dr Z]

I would like someone that "knows" X's and O's explain to me why SC can run simple pick and rolls, and base line screens and get excellent looks at the hoop, but we can't. We spread the floor and stand around, when that doesn't work, we dribble out of control into the lane and kick it out no matter what..thus all the turnovers. This is Div I offense? I continue to be baffled by the lack of offensive game planning. Even the announcers question why one teams players without the ball cut to the hoop, and one team (Akron) doesn't.

[GP1]

Here is what I think after seeing the game last night. To get this out of the way tough, I'll say this....from the coach on down, the last couple of games have been an embarrassment for the program. The Zips lost to a team with way too many underclassmen for a program like Akron to lose to. SC will get smashed when SEC play starts, and the SEC isn't even a very good basketball conference. There is little good to say about any of them at this point.

Group 1 Some on the team are rowing the boat as hard as they can. Diggs and big Pat come to mind when I think of the guys rowing as hard as they can. The problem with this group is they are "pressing" along with the rest of the team and it is leading to missed shots, turnovers and a slew of other negative outcomes. Once the negative outcomes accumulate, this group become frustrated and it leads to worse outcomes. The good thing about this group is, no matter how bad it gets, they continue to row.

Group 2 The second group contains guys like Deji and Johnson. They are rowing hard as they can and work up a Hell of sweat doing so, but their oars aren't quite touching the water. The first group understands this may happen and doesn't worry too much about them as they are part of the nature of basketball. Group 1 will welcome a stray oar touching the water from this group throughout the race.

Group 3 This group contains guys like Evans and Tree. Group 1 is counting on them to have their oars in the water and rowing at their pace and in the same direction. Group 1 also needs help carrying Group 2. The problem with Group 3 is they are not rowing at all time so the boat slows. This group even has fits of rowing in the wrong direction. Worse, when someone reminds them they aren't rowing in the same direction, they row even less. The less they row, the less they row. Their bad attitude spreads like a case of the clap from sailors visiting the same Philippine whorehouse during shore leave.

The one thing the Zips really need to work on is their half court offense. SC played a very good half court set yesterday with guys well spread out and getting quality shots. Akron's players are spaced too close together and if a team plays good defense against them, with 20 seconds left on the shot clock they are all between the foul line and center court. It's an absolutely horrid offense that may work in the MAC and build up a facade that makes fans comfortable, but it is far from great and a huge opportunity for improvement.

Coaching. KD looked like a guy who went to his tiny bag of tricks and tried to pull something out differently against SC. Frank Martin looked like a guy who actually watched film of the game in HI and developed a game plan to not just win, but to beat Akron worse than they did in HI and make a statement on national television. Sorry to upset some, but there is a world of difference between a coach like Martin and KD. When Martin coaches his players, there is complete attention to what he is saying and you could see it frequently throughout the game. Martin's players look like a group who knows Martin has gone deep in to the NCAAs at a Kansas State of all places and believes in him. When KD talks to his players, especially some of the "stars", they are sometimes dismissive of him. It's horrible body language and sends and even worse message to the young players. After several years, players get tired of the same message delivered by the same guy; however, they have to show leadership and not show to the younger guys they are tired of the same message delivered by the same guy. Leadership is more than just how you play. Leadership is how you play, how you carry yourself, how you treat others including the coach, your compliance with instruction, how you react to adversity, etc. If I was KD, I would have some closed door discussions with some of my "stars" and convey this exact message individually.

[skip-zip]

Come on Skip. I'm well aware of all the negatives. Are you aware of any positives? Relax your laser focus on the negatives for a few minutes and go back and read the perception of the Zips among basketball fans, writers, coaches, selection committees, etc., outside of Akron during last season's 19-game winning streak and national ranking.

Dave, I was trying as nicely as possible to state how crazy it is to think that the kind words of a broadcaster during a blowout are somehow going to impact opinion, against the overwhelming data provided by the performances on the basketball court.

Trust me. I share your frustration. I wanted to pull my hair out every time they flashed that "Record of 0-35 against ranked teams" graphic.

[K92]

For a second there I thought I accidentally clicked on a Western Michigan football thread.