What if Abreu returned?

[skip-zip]

Skip, I do respect your position. I think we all want the best outcome based on the best knowledge we have available to us. The information that's publicly available leaves room for interpretation. For example, I think the fact that he admitted to police that he might have done it again showed an admirable degree of honesty. He didn't have to admit that and no one could have ever proved that he had an intention to. To me that's a sign that someone is not incorrigible, and from what I've read I think the prosecutor was also impressed with his total honesty. The parole violation remains a mystery. But the fact that it resulted in only 48 hours incarceration suggests to me it may have been an unintentional minor technical violation. A serious violation would have had more serious consequences. I have confidence that all circumstances would be carefully considered, including details that aren't available to us, before any decision is made on his possible reinstatement.

I do too.

[Hilltopper]

Call me skeptical, but I need proof of that before I believe it.

That's nice, but the only people he has to prove anything to is himself and KD. If he is going to rejoin the team, it's not to benefit the team. It's to benefit himself. He has to decide that he really does want to do the things that will benefit him in the long run like finishing school and becoming a contributing member of society. He needs to figure out that the team doesn't need him as much as he needs to be part of the team. What happens in the next few months will show which way he wants to go. It's up to him.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I spent Thanksgiving Day with Alex. He seems to have learned a great deal.

Like how to smoke a turkey?

[Balsy]

That's nice, but the only people he has to prove anything to is himself and KD. If he is going to rejoin the team, it's not to benefit the team. It's to benefit himself. He has to decide that he really does want to do the things that will benefit him in the long run like finishing school and becoming a contributing member of society. He needs to figure out that the team doesn't need him as much as he needs to be part of the team. What happens in the next few months will show which way he wants to go. It's up to him.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that and support anyone who's trying to get themselves back on track. I'm just saying that I don't buy what people are selling unless they give us proof. Saying and doing are two completely different things.

[Dave in Green]

Skepticism is valid because we can never be 100% sure about anyone due to people not being 100% predictable. Some who've been caught doing something wrong can become completely rehabilitated model citizens and some can backslide. I think that most of us want to reward those we consider good risks to be rehabilitated and avoid enabling those who are likely to backslide. The best we can do is consider the relative seriousness of the transgression, try to measure how well a person has progressed since their wrongdoing and use the most accurate sociological tools available to estimate that individual's likelihood of remaining straight if given another chance. There's almost never universal agreement on the best course of action because, like weather forecasting, it's an imprecise science.

[Zipmeister]

Zeke used up all his eligibility; Alex has not. Which one of us is sin free? Akron is a school famous for giving second chances.

The list is long; Jim Tressel, Gerry Faust, Keith Dambrot, Jamie Bosley, Quincey Diggs and a host of others. Giving Alex a

second chance seems the right thing to do.

I spent Thanksgiving Day with Alex. He seems to have learned a great deal. Let us put it behind us and welcome him home.

I understand that currently we trail only UNLV and Cincinnati in second chances given.

And I seriously doubt Alex will have acquired enough hours to be academically eligible for next season when his 5 year eligibility window closes.

[Hilltopper]

I understand that currently we trail only UNLV and Cincinnati in second chances given.

And I seriously doubt Alex will have acquired enough hours to be academically eligible for next season when his 5 year eligibility window closes.

my source says he would be eligible. He took 18 credit hours in his last semester.

[BirdZip]

my source says he would be eligible. He took 18 credit hours in his last semester.

Perhaps he can be awarded work study credits for horticulture?

[skip-zip]

my source says he would be eligible. He took 18 credit hours in his last semester.

Well, that should be a clear indication that HE wants to come back.

I don't know guys. I just think there's way too many negatives in allowing him to come back.

[Dr Z]

Perhaps he can be awarded work study credits for horticulture?

...sales management, strategic marketing...etc.

[Dave in Green]

my source says he would be eligible. He took 18 credit hours in his last semester.

The ABJ story I linked to earlier in this thread confirms what your source said:

Soon after being suspended, Abreu finished his academic term by taking online courses

So that should have completed his academic requirements as a junior and makes him eligible to return as an academically eligible senior. But the 5-year clock starts the minute a student first enrolls in college and doesn't stop just because a player sits out a season. If Alex doesn't come back next season to complete his 4th season of play, his 5-year clock will expire and he will no longer be eligible to play after the end of next season.

[Quickzips]

Thought about this one a lot the last couple days.

First off a point about our fan base. A few years ago we were all over the Can't State coaching staff and administration for being the program of multiple second chances. We railed their handling of Chris Singletary and others on that program who had consistent on and off the court problems. Now, as a fan base, we seem largely ok with the idea of Akron being the new program of second chances. I'm not saying we should shun Alex and never welcome him back. I'm not saying we should roll out the red carpet for him. But we can't have it both ways. What Alex did from a legal standpoint was far worse than anything that ever happened at Can't. If we wanted those guys at Can't to be punished more severely, we can't back off with Alex.

Assuming, for argument sake, that Alex does come back next year, as others have already pointed out, you can't assume that he will be the same player he was a year ago. Alex was well known in his time here for poor conditioning. I can't imagine a scenario in which he would come back in anything close to game shape. Even Quincy Diggs, who was a well known gym rat, took the first third of this season to get into game shape after coming off a year away.

Given all of that, the idea that Alex might come back might explain a couple things. It might explain why we haven't filled our one scholarship for next year. It might also explain why Alex is still spending time in NE Ohio instead of heading back home to Puerto Rico. (I'm sure he has a huge target on his back with law enforcement after what went down).

The other thing to consider here, not that it should be a determining factor, but Alex coming back would really make for an unbalanced scholarship situation next year. Presuming he would come back on scholarship we would be looking at graduating five scholarship players at the end of 14-15 (Alex, Nyles, Deji, Harney and Tree). That is a lot of turnover in one year. We've done it before, but it is still a lot of turnover.

[Balsy]

Thought about this one a lot the last couple days.

First off a point about our fan base. A few years ago we were all over the Can't State coaching staff and administration for being the program of multiple second chances. We railed their handling of Chris Singletary and others on that program who had consistent on and off the court problems. Now, as a fan base, we seem largely ok with the idea of Akron being the new program of second chances. I'm not saying we should shun Alex and never welcome him back. I'm not saying we should roll out the red carpet for him. But we can't have it both ways. What Alex did from a legal standpoint was far worse than anything that ever happened at Can't. If we wanted those guys at Can't to be punished more severely, we can't back off with Alex.

Assuming, for argument sake, that Alex does come back next year, as others have already pointed out, you can't assume that he will be the same player he was a year ago. Alex was well known in his time here for poor conditioning. I can't imagine a scenario in which he would come back in anything close to game shape. Even Quincy Diggs, who was a well known gym rat, took the first third of this season to get into game shape after coming off a year away.

Given all of that, the idea that Alex might come back might explain a couple things. It might explain why we haven't filled our one scholarship for next year. It might also explain why Alex is still spending time in NE Ohio instead of heading back home to Puerto Rico. (I'm sure he has a huge target on his back with law enforcement after what went down).

The other thing to consider here, not that it should be a determining factor, but Alex coming back would really make for an unbalanced scholarship situation next year. Presuming he would come back on scholarship we would be looking at graduating five scholarship players at the end of 14-15 (Alex, Nyles, Deji, Harney and Tree). That is a lot of turnover in one year. We've done it before, but it is still a lot of turnover.

+1

[Zipmeister]

my source says he would be eligible. He took 18 credit hours in his last semester.

Taking 18 hours and passing 18 hours are two different things.

Plus if HIS last semester was last year, that doesn't do him any good for next year.

[skip-zip]

It might also explain why Alex is still spending time in NE Ohio instead of heading back home to Puerto Rico.

He probably isn't allowed to go anywhere, even out of the area for a day (without permission), if he's on probation.

[Hilltopper]

Taking 18 hours and passing 18 hours are two different things.

Plus if HIS last semester was last year, that doesn't do him any good for next year.

Whatever. I trust my source.

[Valpo Zip]

If your son was a recruit. Would you want him to be a teammate of Alex?

[GoZips]

If your son was a recruit. Would you want him to be a teammate of Alex?

YES

[Dave in Green]

@Quickzips, addressing your points one by one, of course we were all over Can't for their long string of multiple offenders. We're Zips fans and we get all over Can't whenever the sun rises, or sets, or anytime in between. Can't had a major ongoing problem with lots of questionable recruits. The Zips have focused on a higher level of recruit with good family backgrounds, and occasionally even the best make mistakes. In the real world outside of sports fans, you have to treat each case on its individual merits. Some people can't stay out of trouble and some people occasionally make mistakes. As I've said before, I don't know where Alex falls on that scale, but I trust Coach Dambrot to make the right call.

As far as being in shape, Q had a full-time job requiring lots of travel and other obligations that kept him out of the gym. He says he lost 20 pounds of muscle. We don't know if something similar applies to Alex or if he's been able to work himself into better shape than he's ever been. If we don't know, it's pure speculation.

The unbalanced scholarship situation is not ideal, but not having a proven PG is even less ideal. On balance, I'll take the unbalanced scholarship situation.

As for @Ada Zip's question about whether I'd want my son to be a teammate of Alex, if it were me I'd want a face-to-face meeting with Coach Dambrot to have him explain to me why he was confident that Alex was a good person who could be trusted. As I recall, Alex told police that he absolutely never involved any of his teammates in any of his illegal actions.

[skip-zip]

If your son was a recruit. Would you want him to be a teammate of Alex?

Good Point.

[UAZip0510]

If your son was a recruit. Would you want him to be a teammate of Alex?

If I raised my son the right way I wouldn't worry about what his teammates did - I'd trust that the morals and values of my son would guide him to success. I'd also see a man in Keith Dambrot who, when he could have easily walked out on Alex Abreu for screwing his team and their chance at an NCAA Tournament run, stuck by Abreu and trust him with my son. I'd see Dambrot visiting him in jail, helping him through the legal process, and trying to, at the very least, help him finish his degree and get his life back on track. I'd see a coaching staff that has proven themselves to care as much about taking high school boys into their program and turning them into solid men as they do winning basketball games. I'd trust that coaching staff to make the best decision for the program and, if that included Alex, trust them in that decision.

[natemathwhiz2]

I'm just gonna leave this here... I'm sure it will spice things up

[The Hip Zip]

If your son was a recruit. Would you want him to be a teammate of Alex?

No problem here with that ..... Although AA took it to the next level, it wasn't that long ago that I don't remember being 20 years old. Man, I did a ton of stupid things too. A true product of the '70s

[The Hip Zip]

If I raised my son the right way I wouldn't worry about what his teammates did - I'd trust that the morals and values of my son would guide him to success. I'd also see a man in Keith Dambrot who, when he could have easily walked out on Alex Abreu for screwing his team and their chance at an NCAA Tournament run, stuck by Abreu and trust him with my son. I'd see Dambrot visiting him in jail, helping him through the legal process, and trying to, at the very least, help him finish his degree and get his life back on track. I'd see a coaching staff that has proven themselves to care as much about taking high school boys into their program and turning them into solid men as they do winning basketball games. I'd trust that coaching staff to make the best decision for the program and, if that included Alex, trust them in that decision.

Well stated, BTW

[w00t]

I'd lead a campaign to bring him back... we could really use him next year too.

A re-dedicated, older and wiser, second chance Abreu (with something to prove) at the point, with the old guard 3/4 of Harney and Tree, plus a supporting cast with plenty of experience in Forsythe, McAdams, and Kretzer... not to mention potential super-sophs in Johnson and Cheatham. Evans could be the backup that I think he should be at this level, and Betancourt could transfer to Baldwin-Wallace where he's better suited. I think it's MAC Champs in a walk.

Is it really lost on everyone that if Alex did right now in Colorado or Washington what he did in Ohio ten months ago, you'd call him "entrepreneur" as opposed to "criminal"?

I'm skeptical that he could return, but if it's possible it can't happen soon enough.