Downtown Arena!

[skip-zip]

There aren't that many UA alumni with the personal wealth to make the level of donation required to make a significant dent in financing a new $50 million+ arena. You can be assured that UA stays in close personal touch with those few wealthy potential benefactors and that they are all well aware of the funding needed for a new arena.

Realistically UA would be wasting its time chasing potential small donors to fund a project of this magnitude. How many posting here would be willing to donate as much as $1,000 toward funding a new arena above and beyond what they already contribute? A wildly optimistic guess is that there may be 1,000 UA alumni willing to donate $1,000 specifically for a new arena. That would total $1 million or about 2% of the $50 million+ required.

Good perspective, Dave.

We actually already have a measuring stick for all of this. It's called the Z-Fund. These are the people who have a willingness to financially support Zips Athletics. And several employees are involved in soliciting and maintaining that donor base.

And if all of you recall, they are on a mission to try to get us UP TO 5 million in yearly donations. So, even if they could reach that level, and even if 100% of that money could be funneled ONLY to the new basketball arena, and we had no other salaries or expenses involved in obtaining that money, it would still take 10 years to gather the money needed for the Arena.

[Dave in Green]

Good math on the Z-Fund, Skip. That's another dose of financial reality that's a real bucket of cold water in the face. It's much more fun to look at something in the abstract as opposed to realistically. When you get down to the hard nuts and bolts of analyzing all the realistic options of financing a $50 million+ arena, it's pretty intimidating.

I spent a few years of my professional career at a big corporation interacting with a small company that solicited sponsorships, including naming rights. I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but I did get a pretty good introduction to the realities of trying to sell multimillion dollar sponsorships. It's a tough, tough business. That's where I learned firsthand that naming rights for arenas and stadiums represent only a fraction of the cost of actually building the facility. Even if Akron and/or UA landed a name sponsor in advance for a proposed arena, they'd still have to find a way to finance most of the cost of construction.

It's going to take a lot of hard work and some good luck to get a new arena built in Akron, whether on or off campus.

[zippy5]

Good perspective, Dave.

We actually already have a measuring stick for all of this. It's called the Z-Fund. These are the people who have a willingness to financially support Zips Athletics. And several employees are involved in soliciting and maintaining that donor base.

And if all of you recall, they are on a mission to try to get us UP TO 5 million in yearly donations. So, even if they could reach that level, and even if 100% of that money could be funneled ONLY to the new basketball arena, and we had no other salaries or expenses involved in obtaining that money, it would still take 10 years to gather the money needed for the Arena.

10 years, that's nothing. You'd think they'd at least take a 30 year mortgage out for a 50 million dollar place?

[GP1]

The cost of building a structure is only 20% of the cost of maintain the same structure over the life of the building. It's extremely expensive to build a building that may or may not make money. We were heading down a road where the County was going to be telling us how much money the building made with control over the P&L and we were going to have to pick up the cost for any shortfalls. Am I crazy, or does that sound like a disaster in the making? UofA would have had a good 80 years of getting screwed by the clowns in the City and County.

I think we need to look at some other questions. Who was the leader(s) at UofA who thought this ballot initiative was a good idea? My bet is they will find a way to throw the majority of the blame at Proenza, but others had to be involved?

Like many, I have still have some concerns about the new President's history. In this case, he might have earned a gold star by not fully backing this bad idea. The school is swimming in red ink and there is no need to jump into something like this until that is under control. And by control, I don't mean on paper in forecasts....that's the sort of thing the Federal Government does. I mean under real control with real expenses and income considered. Sorry guys, but that could take years.

We have a great basketball program playing in the JAR. Go watch it and enjoy.

[taxpayer]

GP1 is on the money, we have a MAC dominant program that is attempting to climb the ladder in terms of becoming a nationally visible program and attendance is less than good. I know all the excuses by now about how lousy it is to sit in the JAR and watch a game but until the JAR is selling out routinely, anyone with any financial understanding won't be motivated to building a new facility IN HOPES Joe Akron will show up; not to mention UA students. I guess I'll keep sounding like a broken record but improvements must be made to the JAR because an arena is at least 10 years down the road and KD will be at the end of his contract.

I'm not sure how a campus develops some espirit de corps but that is needed more than a new arena. With all the huge new residential housing coming on line I would hope that will lead to more student attendance which will make for better energy from the crowd and a fun atmosphere. Akron is currently set up to continue it's dominance of the MAC but the program needs some assistance from the UA administration.

Like every year, if the Zips stay healthy, I believe they can put last years stumble in the rear view mirror and be a fun team to support.

Evidently, there weren't any tangible suggestions, recommendations put forth for the $375,000 other than tear it down and build a new one?

[Balsy]

So What I'm getting from that DiG, is that the Sales Tax was literally the only chance we have of getting a new stadium...probably ever.

I know you threw in the "clowns of the city" and that the school is swimming in red ink...but assuming your assumptions are correct that 80% of the cost of a building is it's maintenance over it's lifetime. I assume that any major repairs/rennovations to he building over it's lifetime would be a University/County/City endeavor (reducing the impact on UA. UA would be responsible to maintaining the operation of the building financially.

When you take the 80% figure as a worst case scenario (which I bet would include major repairs/renovations annotated above) split up over the year's of it's operation, the figure becomes much more manageable.

$50-mil (cost of building...20% of total cost over lifetime) = $250-mil (total operation cost over lifetime) = $200-mil (cost of building minus cost of construction). Divided by lifespan of building (for the sake of argument I say 60 years?) 200/60 = 3.3 mil operation per year. That's worst case scenario that we'd be responsible for major repairs/renovations.

I still don't get how a ballet initiative was really all that bad a thing. It really seems to be the only option for a new stadium in any remote future. And I have serious doubts that this program will ever grow beyond where it is currently without a new stadium. The JAR will not attract large opponents. The JAR won't attract locals to attend. The JAR won't attract casual fans to attend. The JAR won't attract national television. The JAR won't make the Zips program any more attractive to recruits, in fact it probably acts as a deterrent. #ThinkBigger #ThinkSmallerBecauseWe'llNeverBeAnythingMore

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge supporter of the Zips and will continue to be. However, I don't see this program growing anymore until a new arena exists, and I don't see the ballot initiative as bad.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge supporter of the Zips and will continue to be. However, I don't see this program growing anymore until a new arena exists, and I don't see the ballot initiative as bad.

Ever see this place?

[Zipmeister]

Ever see this place?

3500 capacity.

So that's why I've never heard of these guys or seen them on TV.

[ZachTheZip]

So, if they're removing the arena from the proposed tax increase, shouldn't the percentage be lowered? Sounds like it was all a scam.

[GP1]

Ever see this place?

Isn't that the place where the Zips got worked over last year on national television? Also, isn't that the place where the little school that could and did win NCAA tournament games plays their home games? Do we really need a bigger arena to experience more success? Do we really need 3,000 more empty seats?

Anyone want to talk about the Big East?

[Captain Kangaroo]

My solution to the problem - sell beer at the JAR. It wouldn't cost any money, and it might actually make some money?

After a couple beers, the JAR won't look so bad, and your spine will loosen up?

Bathroom lines? Ok, that might be an issue.

[g-mann17]

So, if they're removing the arena from the proposed tax increase, shouldn't the percentage be lowered? Sounds like it was all a scam.

They can't lower the percentage, .25% is lowest increase that is allowed by law.

[Spin]

What would engage the student population?

Win some tournament games. It worked for soccer.

[ZachTheZip]

What would engage the student population?

Win some tournament games. It worked for soccer.

For several consecutive years. Otherwise, they'll look at it as a fluke. The problem with the student population is that there's a large amount of turnover from year to year. In two more years, very few will have ever seen Zeke Marshall in a Zips uniform. Even today, only a handful remember the McKnight brothers or Nikola or Jimmy Conyers.

You have to win on a national stage for several years in a row to establish a culture that carries over to new students.

[skip-zip]

You have to win on a national stage

Key word being "national".

You have to be realistic here. Do you think people would complain about sitting on bleachers for two hours if they were doing it to witness something truly special?

I once packed myself into those same bleachers, shoulder to shoulder with other students, two hours before game time, to witness our big upset over Cleveland State in 1986, when they returned all the pieces of a Sweet 16 team from the year before. Nobody complained. We enjoyed one of the greatest experiences ever as Zips Basketball fans.

This isn't a "build it and they will come" scenario. With Joe Akron, it's a "do something that matters and we will come"

I'll say it again. I'm sure you'll find that the people complaining about the comfort level of JAR are the people who already go there. If the outsiders was something special happening at Rhodes, they wouldn't be deterred by long concession lines, etc.

[Dave in Green]

They can't lower the percentage, .25% is lowest increase that is allowed by law.

That's correct. State law requires that sales taxes can only be implemented in .25% increments. The pressing need was funding for the county jail and 911 and emergency radio system. But the .25% increase would generate more money than required for those specific issues. I guess there was a mistaken belief that using the extra money to fund a downtown arena would be considered by voters to be a worthy use for the extra funds, and public feedback showed that was not the case. Under the revised plan the balance will go into the county's general fund, 70% of which is spent on county public safety and criminal justice.

[ziptrumpet87]

So instead of an arena, we get a slush fund for the county to dip into.

[Balsy]

Politicians and city/county planners being responsible and making every dollar accountable to something tangible and real...what a horrible idea.

[GP1]

This isn't a "build it and they will come" scenario.

It never is. That was an illusion created in a movie designed for Baby Boomers to feel bad about their childhood. We shouldn't be making decisions centered around millions of dollars being spent to build and maintain a potential white elephant based upon that idea.

Anyone see Real Sports last week and the segment on golf courses? It made me think of this topic. They used the same phrase about the boom in golf courses when Tiger Woods got popular. Today, those same golf courses are closing at a rate of one every 48 HOURS. The entire golf industry is in free fall.

At some point, everyone has to put down childish things. Spending government money on things so adults can go play is a childish way to think and masks the inability of government agencies to put forward any ideas to improve communities in a meaningful way that will have a long term impact on that community. Better schools, roads, bridges, sewer, etc. (the sort of stuff that separates us from our knuckle dragging ancestors) improve communities, not arenas. In ten years, Youngstown and their new arena will still be the armpit of Ohio.

Further, universities spending money on play pens for adults is a childish way for them to attract students. Attract childish students, get childish results. I'd rather them spend money on research and top notch education than an arena.

[taxpayer]

IMO the elimination of the proposed partnership with local government & UA is a blessing in disguise and most members here seem to agree. That's the good news. The realistic news is the Zips will be playing in the JAR for a long time unless some benefactor(s) comes along which isn't probable.

So.........does anyone know specifics regarding the feasibility study concerning the JAR? I know this isn't popular but if nothing is planned UA is missing an opportunity to grow the mens program. As stated previously, engage the student population and get some bodies into the JAR. The argument that the Zips have to win several NCAA games before the students will pay attention doesn't hold water for me. During the winter in Akron and elsewhere, students will show up for 2 hours if they can have fun, blow of steam and be entertained. I've only been a close observer of the Zips for 4 or 5 years but the lack of student morale or spirit is noticeably lacking on campus. It will take some creativity and some decisions like not giving the best seats up for the "media" table. Honestly, can the coverage of the Zips be more detached than it has been? Move them (10? 12?) upstairs like most arena's do and get some students down there on the floor. Or increase the number of booster front row floor seats as they are typically passionate fans of the Zips from what I've seen. It is time for a makeover of the JAR. Imagine where the program will go if KD realizes he can't keep growing the program and accepts an offer from a school that already has the facilities but not the program. To do nothing is a decision and it's a bad one.

[Captain Kangaroo]

The argument that the Zips have to win several NCAA games before the students will pay attention doesn't hold water for me.

Imagine where the program will go if KD realizes he can't keep growing the program and accepts an offer from a school that already has the facilities but not the program.

1.) Let's win one, and see where that takes us.

2.) KD isn't going anywhere.

[Zipmeister]

It will take some creativity and some decisions like not giving the best seats up for the "media" table. Move them (10? 12?) upstairs like most arena's do.

Can you name three arenas that don't have court-side media tables?

[jupitertoo]

Can you name three arenas that don't have court-side media tables?

the MAC (Can't), Convo (Athens) and Millet (Oxford).

[Dave in Green]

Moving a few members of the media to less desirable seats in order to give a few fans better seats has way more potential downside than upside.

[Zipmeister]

the MAC (Can't), Convo (Athens) and Millet (Oxford).

I'm sure Taxpayer appreciates your assistance. Now name another 300 or so to prove his statement is correct.