Downtown Arena!

[GP1]

To do nothing is a decision and it's a bad one.

Doing nothing is a perfectly fine decision right now. They can't afford a new arena and any "upgrades" to the JAR will be a waste of money.

KD isn't going anywhere. No school is looking for a 55+ year old coach who has as performed as poorly as he has with Akron in the NCAA Tournament and has such an unimpressive record against decent out of conference opponents. It just isn't in the world of reality.

[Spin]

It never is. That was an illusion created in a movie designed for Baby Boomers to feel bad about their childhood. We shouldn't be making decisions centered around millions of dollars being spent to build and maintain a potential white elephant based upon that idea.

Care to support that with attendance data comparing old and new sports venues? You can start with examples from this region, including Canal Park, Jacobs Field, and the Richfield Coliseum.

I'll even let you try to rationalize the Dialer, without mentioning the 6-42 record of the program in the first four years there.

[GP1]

Care to support that with attendance data comparing old and new sports venues? You can start with examples from this region, including Canal Park, Jacobs Field, and the Richfield Coliseum.

I'll even let you try to rationalize the Dialer, without mentioning the 6-42 record of the program in the first four years there.

I'd rather compare attendance to win/loss records.

Quite honestly, I could care less about minor league sports and hate the idea of comparing a D1A sports department to minor league sports, so I won't. Besides, different leagues and sports have different ways of calculating "attendance".

Jacobs Field vs. Cleveland Stadium. The Indians were a horrid franchise for my entire life until they got good and played at Jacobs field. They got good and crowd size increased along with interest in the new stadium. They have had bad years since then and attendance fell. Great stadium, why didn't attendance stay up?

I'm also old enough to remember when the Cavs were good and played at Richfield. It was a much better place for a fan to watch a game than the current arena. They played a really exciting brand of basketball and were fun to watch. Couldn't find an empty seat. When they stunk, you couldn't find a fan.

Exclude the first year of the Big Dialer and my guess is attendance is pretty dismal. In fact, I'm old enough to remember the Acme/Zip game and there used to be huge crowds for it in the horrible Rubber Bowl, which tells me, "If you give away free tickets,they will come." Average attendance during the Acme-Zip years when we played Can't was probably pretty good, but an average can be driven up with one event.

"If you build it, you have something you built." The easy part is building the arena. All that takes is money, engineering/architecture and workers. The other 80 years are the problem.

"If you win, they they will come." The BB team gets good crowds, but they aren't very exciting to watch. A new arena isn't going to change that. They would have to do better than last year, every year, to significantly increase crowd sizes. I don't see that happening for a lot of reasons I'd rather not get in to.

"If you win and are really entertaining doing it, you'll have to beat fans away with a stick." I'm hoping this can be accomplished with Bowden Ball or whatever they call it. Win in a way that makes people want more of what you are selling. I think that's the type of excitement we have never seen with a UofA sports team. We've had good teams, but something was always missing. The thing missing was the entertainment value for the fan.

"If you lose, you have lots of empty seats."

[Dave in Green]

Let's cut through the fog of variables and get to a simple truth: All other things being equal, a newer, fan-friendlier facility by itself will draw more fans in the same way that a team winning more games with more exciting play will by itself draw more fans. It's all about the total fan experience. If you have a team that's playing a more exciting brand of ball and winning more games in a nice, new arena, you get a double-positive attendance hit.

[Spin]

I'm not asking you to compare minor league sports to Division I college sports. I'm asking you to compare attendance at a small, uncomfortable ball park with bleachers and poor facilities to a modern ballpark with comfortable seats and lots of clean facilities and places to buy refreshments. We don't need numbers since the team was moving out of Canton due to bad attendance. No such problems at Canal Park. Or lets compare attendance at the JAR-like Cleveland Arena to the Richfield Coliseum. Attendance doubled from 4013 to 8161. Both years they missed the playoffs.

And I don't agree solely with the winning and losing being the primary effector on attendance. The fan perception of the team management plays a much bigger role in attendance than wins and losses. With the Tribe, fans have very little confidence that this team, owned by Paul Dolan and attendance sucks even when they're in the playoff hunt.Compare that to their neighbor, the Cavs have been drawing 15,000+ per game with Dan Gilbert in charge despite having the worst team in the league. In 2010-11 they won 19 games and attracted 20,112 per game, 3rd in the NBA. Under Ted Stepien they won 15 games one year and attracyed 5669 brave souls. Second to last in the NBA, (Ohio U had more fans last year). Same team, same record, much different perception.

But going back to the same team, same owner, similar records, and a new venue, I'm hard pressed to find a facility where there isn't a significant increase in butts in seats,

[skip-zip]

Or lets compare attendance at the JAR-like Cleveland Arena to the Richfield Coliseum.

The fan perception of the team management plays a much bigger role in attendance than wins and losses.

1) I'll ask you if you ever spent any time at Cleveland Arena. It was an old, decrepit, dirty, smelly facility, in what was becoming a really bad section of the East side of downtown by the 1960s and 1970s.

2) Perception of team management? MUCH bigger than winning? When any sports team starts winning, and the casual sports fans start jumping on the bandwagon, I would challenge you to ask those people if they even know anything about the person who owns the team. Better yet, ask them if they even know the name of anyone in management, or even the coach. Many of them won't even be able to name the players.

[gozips19]

Here's a quick quote from the pres on the arena

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/new-university-of-akron-president-outlines-aggressive-program-in-talk-with-roundtable-audience-1.511609

[Zipmeister]

While the Pres didn't go into detail, my guess on his plans............

Plan A = get taxpayers to pay for a new arena (and blow smoke up the bond rating services asses)..

Plan B = get private citizens to pay for a new arena (and blow smoke up the bond rating services asses).

Plan C = sell some bonds.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I have heard Plan C is under strong consideration.

But Dambrot's "It's dead" comment in the recent interview makes be think...it's dead.

[GP1]

Here's a quick quote from the pres on the arena

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/new-university-of-akron-president-outlines-aggressive-program-in-talk-with-roundtable-audience-1.511609

Who let the adults in to run the University?

[Spin]

1) I'll ask you if you ever spent any time at Cleveland Arena. It was an old, decrepit, dirty, smelly facility, in what was becoming a really bad section of the East side of downtown by the 1960s and 1970s.

2) Perception of team management? MUCH bigger than winning? When any sports team starts winning, and the casual sports fans start jumping on the bandwagon, I would challenge you to ask those people if they even know anything about the person who owns the team. Better yet, ask them if they even know the name of anyone in management, or even the coach. Many of them won't even be able to name the players.

1) I never saw the Clevealnd Arena but I spent many a summer evening at Thurmon Munson sitting on the bleachers and waiting in line for food despite only a couple hundred being there. Likewise the Rubber Blow.Cleveland Municiple Stadium, And peed in the sink more than once.

2) The Tribe was battling for first place the past several years and attendance has been atrocious. While the Gilbert Cavs have played like a reincarnation of the Stepien era and were third in the league in attendance. The Force sold out the Little House on the Prarie until it was certain Wolstein was not going to go all-in. Attendance dropped like a rock even though the team was still in the playoffs. Fans are smarter than you give them credit.

[taxpayer]

Zipmeister - Cameron, Maryland & Pitt's facilities to name a few more. Who cares what others do; Akron needs to improve the JAR. I totally disagree with the thought that it's a waste of money because eventually it will be replaced. There isn't going to be a new arena in the 5-7 year time frame and improvements could be made that wouldn't break the piggy bank. I still haven't seen what the $375,000 feasibility study produced as far as options.

GP1 - wow, what a statement towards UA's best & the MAC's most successful coach and program. I truly believe if the Zips have a year like two years ago and don't sustain the injuries and sickness that star crossed group did KD will get an offer or two and I believe he accept one and finish his career making the kind of money he hoped he could at UA. Loyalty is rare in today's world, especially in sports. You won't know what you've got until he's gone.

[GP1]

GP1 - wow, what a statement towards UA's best & the MAC's most successful coach and program. I truly believe if the Zips have a year like two years ago and don't sustain the injuries and sickness that star crossed group did KD will get an offer or two and I believe he accept one and finish his career making the kind of money he hoped he could at UA. Loyalty is rare in today's world, especially in sports. You won't know what you've got until he's gone.

That's a pretty big "if".

KD has never been a hot commodity in college basketball. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a really good MAC coach and I'm glad he is UofA's coach, but not someone other schools are searching out. You are right though. You don't know what you got until he's gone. That's a two way street. We could get someone worse (ie: If TW puts his mind to it, we could wind up with another Ianello if TW is still AD, which he probably won't be), or we could get someone better. The assumption you make is we will get someone worse and I'm offended by that type of thinking.

[Zipmeister]

Zipmeister - Cameron, Maryland & Pitt's facilities to name a few more. Who cares what others do; Akron needs to improve the JAR. I totally disagree with the thought that it's a waste of money because eventually it will be replaced. There isn't going to be a new arena in the 5-7 year time frame and improvements could be made that wouldn't break the piggy bank. I still haven't seen what the $375,000 feasibility study produced as far as options.

GP1 - wow, what a statement towards UA's best & the MAC's most successful coach and program. I truly believe if the Zips have a year like two years ago and don't sustain the injuries and sickness that star crossed group did KD will get an offer or two and I believe he accept one and finish his career making the kind of money he hoped he could at UA. Loyalty is rare in today's world, especially in sports. You won't know what you've got until he's gone.

Only 294 more and I will admit you are correct.

I think the major recommendation to come out of the feasibility study was to raise the playing surface, like Vandy and Minn.

To accomplish this in the JAR, I'm thinking the court-side press seats would have to be eliminated, and that way we could move the press seats farther away from the court and they might not notice.

[zippy5]

Taxpayer, media is Courtside at the Pete.

[skip-zip]

I still haven't seen what the $375,000 feasibility study produced as far as options.

Let me share a few things all in one post, which I may have shared previously in individual posts.

Here's the things that stuck out at me:

- Moving the upper seats forward, which would divert the traffic around the back of the seating, which obviously would take some seating away from each side of those upper seating areas in order to forge the "hallways" that go around the back of them.

- The 4 corner pillars cannot be altered. They hold up the entire building.

- The possibility of moving the VIP area downstairs to the Concession area, which could allow us to see the court through the back of that concession area (the south scoreboard wall).

- I think that the concession areas would possibly be moved to the back of the seating areas, in those hallways. I can't remember.

Keep in mind that there has been some changes recently, although limited.

- Changing the lighting system in the Arena so that lights can be turned on and off without having to "warm up"

- Changing the main concourse to WHITE. Just like when we paint rooms in our houses, wow...what a difference that made in terms of openness and spaciousness and visibility. Makes you wonder who contributed the initial genius opinion to color the main concourse in NAVY BLUE when it was built.

- Although this won't impact fans, if any of you have gotten to visit the player lounges in the back, they are awesome. I'd absolutely consider them to be an attractive recruiting tool.

Thoughts?

[Spin]

Thoughts?

Might as well make the best of the situation. Even if they were to start today it would be several years the doors open.

[Zipsrifle]

I feel for KD, this has to be so frustrating for him. He has been loyal to the school and has consistently put a winner on the floor. New facilities would be a big help in getting us over the hump and win a few games in the Tourney. Unfortunately, there isn't any construction money left. Early in LP's administration, we needed to be building new facilities, the campus was just awful. After those first few stages of building, I think the administration become intoxicated and just kept building and really strained the finances. I have to say, after reading that article posted above, Pres. Scarborough has a clear idea of where UA needs to go over the next few years. We need to get our debt under control. Unfortunately, that means KD gets screwed and doesn't get the arena he needs, at least for the next few years.

[GP1]

I feel for KD, this has to be so frustrating for him. He has been loyal to the school and has consistently put a winner on the floor. Unfortunately, that means KD gets screwed and doesn't get the arena he needs, at least for the next few years.

Sorry if I'm not crying a river for KD. He is the highest paid coach in the Athletic Department and should be expected to perform at a high level regardless of the circumstances.

Loyalty? Maybe. Not long ago, a business manager for one of the companies mine represents resigned (He was probably going to be fired by the end of the year. A perfect example of how bad middle managers in American companies have become....too many Action Plans and not enough action.) and his boss told me he was having trouble keeping up with the pace of the industry. My response to that comment was, "That's a really nice way of calling someone lazy." Maybe there is a difference between being loyal and unwanted, but they can look the same sometimes.

[Zips Win!]

I find it amazing that this thread is on page 28. Anyone who thought the hoops arena proposal would pass in the first place must be hanging out with Abreu.

The fact that it was removed from the ballot at least saves the embarrassment of reading in the paper that it was defeated by a 90-10 margin.

Find a dozen donors with deep pockets to get this thing approved and built.

[taxpayer]

Zippy5 - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pitt/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/MBBSeatingChart120711.pdf%C2'> Pitt's courtside seating chart. Media is allocated small section near visitor bench. All else is boosters and or students.

UCLA - typically has a 8' table centercourt; balance of courtside is booster seating.

Again, it doesn't matter to me what others are doing. It makes sense to have boosters who are willing and able to pay to sit courtside do so and get students down as close to the court as possible. Revenue and atmosphere. The limited media who cover the Zips would understand their move upstairs. If the students don't turn out in sufficient numbers to fill courtside seats then offer them for sale to the existing paying fan base. I'd hope they would sell out in one day. I contend this simple move would increase revenue and add some more flavor to the JAR's game environment.

[zippy5]

Near visitor's bench, ie, courtside. Have you ever been there?

Point is, why be one of the .1% to upset the media for maybe an extra row of seating? Is it really worth it?

[taxpayer]

Zippy5 - yes I've been to the Pete many times. The media allocated seats are in the corner by the visitor bench. Pitt puts their big boosters courtside and are able to charge a significant premium for those seats. As far as alienating the media, they are professionals and would understand about the need to maximize floor seats to earn more income for the program. The local newspaper reporters understand that scenerio better than most as their pay and budgets are shrinking as newspapers become less and less in demand due to the internet.

I could be wrong, maybe UA doesn't have enough demand to make courtside booster seats worth installing. We need more revenue and then we need a better facility. With finances being what they are, the Zips HAVE to increase revenue before a new facility is going to appear.

[Dr Z]

I filled out my ballot yesterday. Here is issue 12 for reference:

As a reminder:

[g-mann17]

The arena was dropped from the issue in August.