Game #9 Bowling Green

[K92]

Vanderbilt

Michigan (sorta the opposite, but Shane Morris was "medically cleared" as well.

Massachussetts Medical Society Recommends lots of caution:

Recent research on athletes under 18 years of age has shown that even when they say they are normal after exhibiting shown symptoms after an initial concussion, brain function and reflexes may not return to normal for many weeks in some athletes...Regardless of the recommendations of others, if your gut feeling tells you to bench a player, do not let anyone — players, parents, coaches, fans, or circumstances — change your mind. You are never wrong to keep a player out of a practice or game. It is the safest option. when in doubt, sit them out!

You know, medical professionals getting in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

I can't imagine why Bowden would want to hold a player out of a game, take the most caution as possible, after the Michigan debacle above. (note, this last comment is sarcastic).

One simple question:

Why did he make the "unfair" statement if he was holding Kyle out for a head injury?

Please explain that to me.

[Balsy]

One simple question:

Why did he make the "unfair" statement if he was holding Kyle out for a head injury?

Please explain that to me.

It doesn't matter. Occam's Razor applies.

You're putting way too much stock into a statement that lasted less than 2 seconds, said on the spot after a question.

[zippy5]

So one other time.. And he was cleared the night before the game. I don't think that was a medical move moreso than he didn't have prep time.

[Balsy]

Lets also get one thing straight Keener: I don't have to explain anything. I don't have the burden of proof. You and the conspiracy theorists do.

It's incredibly sad that ZN.O has devolved into this in the span of two weeks. Unbelievable.

[K92]

Lets also get one thing straight Keener: I don't have to explain anything. I don't have the burden of proof. You and the conspiracy theorists do.

It's incredibly sad that ZN.O has devolved into this in the span of two weeks. Unbelievable.

So you actually think that Bowden was asked a question about putting Kyle in the game and he answered the way he did instead of simply saying that he was not ready to go medically or that they were exercising extra caution with a head injury?

You have drank the Kool-Aid.

I guess the answer will come out in good time and I am perfectly willing to admit I am wrong at any time, but something certainly smells fishy here.

[K92]

I'm not discussing this any more. We have a divide on this board and until someone from the staff is forthcoming about our quarterback situation, all discussion is mere conjecture. It is a shame that the feel-good 2014 season has been derailed and that our discourse has devolved into anger and combativeness between fans of the same team.

[Balsy]

You have drank the Kool-Aid.

No. I'm thinking rationally in the absence of evidence to support the contrary.

[Big Zip]

Balsy you have no evidence for anything the evidence is on the other side. You have a player who was cleared to play, who suited up to play and when the coach was asked why he didn't play responded it that it wouldn't be fair. Those are the facts. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge those facts point toward something else is actually comical.

[Dave in Green]

The Los Angeles Times had an interesting story a couple of years ago entitled Pac-12 Football Coaches Hush-Hush About Hurt Players describing how some college football coaches believe player injuries should not be discussed in detail publicly for competitive reasons and some believe the medical histories of college athletes are private matters that shouldn't be shared with the public:

Other Pac-12 coaches said they avoid discussing injuries for privacy reasons.

Stanford Coach David Shaw said, "These are not professional athletes, they are amateur athletes and their health is not anybody else's concern."

Coach Bowden's statement about it being "unfair" to throw KP into the BSU game is consistent with the above. First, it was an honest answer if KP was still showing effects of an injury because it certainly would have been unfair to put him in the game. Second, it was creatively non-informative from both a competitive point of view and the student athlete medical privacy issue.

As far as I know, no one posting on this forum has any confirmed official word on all the details of any injury KP may have or exactly when or even if he's received full clearance to play. There are conflicting reports from fans who know people who say they know, and also conflicting reports from the media. The Chicago Tribune report, for example, says that KP has (not had) a concussion, and lists him as still questionable. Is this more accurate or less accurate than some of the theories being posted here?

[Blue & Gold]

This is the responsibility of George Thomas. This story should have been written two days ago.

[johnnyzip84]

The Los Angeles Times had an interesting story a couple of years ago entitled Pac-12 Football Coaches Hush-Hush About Hurt Players describing how some college football coaches believe player injuries should not be discussed in detail publicly for competitive reasons and some believe the medical histories of college athletes are private matters that shouldn't be shared with the public:

Coach Bowden's statement about it being "unfair" to throw KP into the BSU game is consistent with the above. First, it was an honest answer if KP was still showing effects of an injury because it certainly would have been unfair to put him in the game. Second, it was creatively non-informative from both a competitive point of view and the student athlete medical privacy issue.

I will add that we shouldn’t forget that Coach Bowden happens to have a Law Degree.

Don’t be shocked if, in a few years down the road, Shane Morris sues the University of Michigan AND Brady Hoke and others on his staff for their actions (or inactions) during the Minnesota game.

[Balsy]

Balsy you have no evidence for anything the evidence is on the other side. You have a player who was cleared to play, who suited up to play and when the coach was asked why he didn't play responded it that it wouldn't be fair. Those are the facts. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge those facts point toward something else is actually comical.

Wrong. I don't have the burden of proof, those accusing Bowden of playing favorites, and there being a plan to run Pohl out, do.

I've already explained how a player can be cleared to play (and suited up) but not play. You apparently glossed over that explanation, or didn't care. Whatever the reason, I'm done talking about this conspiracy non-sense. This particular part of the forum has rapidly devolved into the ilk of Evolution denial, climate change denial, Illuminati New World Order plots; it's ridiculous.

[zippy5]

Wrong. I don't have the burden of proof, those accusing Bowden of playing favorites, and there being a plan to run Pohl out, do.

I've already explained how a player can be cleared to play (and suited up) but not play. You apparently glossed over that explanation, or didn't care. Whatever the reason, I'm done talking about this conspiracy non-sense. This particular part of the forum has rapidly devolved into the ilk of Evolution denial, climate change denial, Illuminati New World Order plots; it's ridiculous.

Burden of proof? Are we in a court room? No one wins, we're allowed to have different opinions. There's very few "conspiracy" theorists here.. I'm not into the whole Bowden Ball, reason to start Woodson yadda yadda thing... But I would like to know why Pohl hasn't been playing if he's cleared. Not much to ask.

[Balsy]

Burden of proof? Are we in a court room? No one wins, we're allowed to have different opinions. There's very few "conspiracy" theorists here.. I'm not into the whole Bowden Ball, reason to start Woodson yadda yadda thing... But I would like to know why Pohl hasn't been playing if he's cleared. Not much to ask.

Burden of proof is a philosophical/logical concept. There are people who have differing opinions here. Therefore; if you make a claim, you are responsible for supporting it with evidence. If you cannot, rational people should disregard it as nonsense.

The conspiracy theory stuff should be disregarded, and labeled as nonsense.

[Big Zip]

Nobody in this thread is talking about conspiracy theory we are talking about the facts. I don't believe you dress a player if he shouldn't be playing. If you dress him you are saying he is ready to play. I'm only asking for further explanation and everything I've typed has been simple fact. You on the other hand have offered theories as to why it didn't happen. I'm not offering theories I'm asking for the truth and not willing to buy theories that are simply that theories without any real explanation. When a coach says it wouldn't be fair to play a guy. That says to me he is now coaching with his heart instead of his head and very well could be playing favorites. Fair or not -- inserting Woodson in previous games never seemed to come down to a fair value but all of sudden that is the excuse used for not playing Pohl. Heck I've have loved to see anyone out there in place of Woodson - he was playing terribly and should have been yanked.

[Dave in Green]

The only official things GT can write about KP's health are what he's officially told, which he has already done. If he goes to unofficial sources to get unofficial information he will likely run into the same speculative stuff that fans are throwing back and forth at each other on this forum.

Here's what the NCAA has to say about the privacy of student-athlete medical records:

Note: Records maintained in the athletic training facility are medical records, and therefore subject to state and federal laws with regard to confidentiality and content. Each institution should obtain from appropriate legal counsel an opinion regarding the confidentiality and content of such records in its state.

Medical records and the information they contain should be created, maintained and released in accordance with clear written guidelines based on this opinion. All personnel who have access to a student-athlete’s medical records should be familiar with such guidelines and informed of their role in maintaining the student-athlete’s right to privacy.

Bottom line is that while we fans may want to know all the health details about the players we support on the field, we have absolutely no right to know.

[a-zip]

Nobody in this thread is talking about conspiracy theory we are talking about the facts. I don't believe you dress a player if he shouldn't be playing. If you dress him you are saying he is ready to play. I'm only asking for further explanation and everything I've typed has been simple fact. You on the other hand have offered theories as to why it didn't happen. I'm not offering theories I'm asking for the truth and not willing to buy theories that are simply that theories without any real explanation. When a coach says it wouldn't be fair to play a guy. That says to me he is now coaching with his heart instead of his head and very well could be playing favorites. Fair or not -- inserting Woodson in previous games never seemed to come down to a fair value but all of sudden that is the excuse used for not playing Pohl. Heck I've have loved to see anyone out there in place of Woodson - he was playing terribly and should have been yanked.

Balsy is right on the money with this. Big Zip you stated above that we are talking about facts and then right after it you state an opinion. The conspiracy theories are also opinions. The fact is there are no facts in this situation other than TW played, KP did not and KP dressed. A simple comment was made by TB and people have gone crazy with it. He does not have to tell the media or anyone anything. In my OPINION TB is looking out for the best interests of KP and that hopefully will come out in the long run. In the meantime - we have the best head coach and staff in the MAC (and many other conferences). BEAT BG and take the lead in the MAC!!

[LZIp]

It's not like the status of a players' health is some mystery everywhere else in the country. Bottom line: GT doesn't have a single tweet about Zips FB since the Ball St game. He is doing the bare minimum to get by as a beat reporter for Akron Zips football. He doesn't want to cover us. He had a whole 3 updates during the game last week. Two of them were saying the exact same thing and one of them was about the announcers. He provides zero substance for the fan base that he is working for.

This post is harsh, but it's the truth. We deserve better coverage.

[Dave in Green]

It's not like the status of a players' health is some mystery everywhere else in the country. ...

I take it you didn't read the Los Angeles Times story I linked to above, which refutes your theory. Here it is again in case you missed it:

Pac-12 Football Coaches Hush-Hush About Hurt Players

[MDZip]

So allegedly, there is some sort of football game coming up next Tuesday in which first place for the division is on the line. Anyone heard about this?

[LZIp]

I take it you didn't read the Los Angeles Times story I linked to above, which refutes your theory. Here it is again in case you missed it:

Pac-12 Football Coaches Hush-Hush About Hurt Players

I'm not sure that we are on the same page here. PAC 12 coaches (I picked David Shaw from the article and did some research) disclose whether a player is injured or not. Sometimes they hide the nature of the injury. We know what Pohl's injury was. The coach said he was cleared. Is he still holding him out for an injury? Nobody hides IF a player is injured or not, just choose not to disclose the nature of the injury. I don't see how PAC 12 handles things and our apparent current situation are related.

Example: I know Zach Hoffpauir, a safety for Stanford is out because of an injury. I do not know what the injury is. I do not know if Kyle Pohl did not play due to an injury, but I know what his injury that he was cleared for is.

[Dave in Green]

People keep saying they "know" things when they don't really know. They've heard or read something that may or may not be entirely accurate, make an assumption based on that and ignore conflicting information that also may or may not be correct. There's a lot of erroneous information floating around that's assumed to be factual when in fact it is not.

[Balsy]

So allegedly, there is some sort of football game coming up next Tuesday in which first place for the division is on the line. Anyone heard about this?

I hadn't heard.

Anywho. I think the Zips have learned some valuable lessons the past two weeks, and will rebound in this game. The coaching staff will get the team prepared for this game with a game plan to win. The two week bye for Bowling Green will take a hit on them, the Zips will be ready to win.

Akron 31

BGSU 28

[Zipgrad01]

Wrong. I don't have the burden of proof, those accusing Bowden of playing favorites, and there being a plan to run Pohl out, do.

I've already explained how a player can be cleared to play (and suited up) but not play. You apparently glossed over that explanation, or didn't care. Whatever the reason, I'm done talking about this conspiracy non-sense. This particular part of the forum has rapidly devolved into the ilk of Evolution denial, climate change denial, Illuminati New World Order plots; it's ridiculous.

Not to change the subject, but you are saying that if you are an evolution or climate change denier that you are a certain "ilk" of person? What kind of "ilk" is that? You crack me up. You talk about only stating the facts in your arguments about the quarterback situation and then you turn around and mention two of the most argued topics on earth as being completely one sided to your opinion. I got ya. The facts are only the facts when they support your agenda.

[Balsy]

Not to change the subject, but you are saying that if you are an evolution or climate change denier that you are a certain "ilk" of person? What kind of "ilk" is that? You crack me up. You talk about only stating the facts in your arguments about the quarterback situation and then you turn around and mention two of the most argued topics on earth as being completely one sided to your opinion. I got ya. The facts are only the facts when they support your agenda.

My agenda is knowledge. Logic over illogic, reason over hyperbole. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, if the facts show it.