It is time to start Deji

[Dave in Green]

... People get way too caught up in delineating the specific duties of each position.

I understand. In my wilder moments I fantasize about Antino in the post and Big Dog at the point.

[skip-zip]

I understand. In my wilder moments I fantasize about Antino in the post and Big Dog at the point.

You might be on to something, with Big Dog's already-demonstrated passing ability from the high post. I'd love to see someone try to step in front of him on a dribble drive.

[1981 grad]

Kd changed the starting lineup at Buffalo. He started Kretzer instead of McAdams. Same result. Kretzer gave him the same offense that McAdams gave him, zero points in 31 minutes.

Maybe KD will insert Deji into the starting lineup for senior night. I know putting your second highest scorer into the starting lineup is a radical move but but after losing 4 games in a row it is time to live dangerously.

[Dave in Green]

As I recall they always start the seniors on senior night, if only to play a few minutes before reverting to the normal rotation. So Deji and Nyles should both start Friday night.

Historical footnote: The all-time leading scorer for the Boston Celtics was not a starter but the team's 6th man. John Havlicek brought tremendous energy off the bench that gave the team a boost when the starters began coming off the floor. Many Celtics fans wanted to see Hondo as a starter. But his head coaches (Red Auerbach, Bill Russell and Tom Heinsohn) were unanimous in their belief that Hondo had greater overall value to the team coming off the bench, and resisted fan pleas. During his 16-year career with the Celtics, one of the greatest players the NBA has ever seen never started a single game.

[zippy5]

As I recall they always start the seniors on senior night, if only to play a few minutes before reverting to the normal rotation. So Deji and Nyles should both start Friday night.

Historical footnote: The all-time leading scorer for the Boston Celtics was not a starter but the team's 6th man. John Havlicek brought tremendous energy off the bench that gave the team a boost when the starters began coming off the floor. Many Celtics fans wanted to see Hondo as a starter. But his head coaches (Red Auerbach, Bill Russell and Tom Heinsohn) were unanimous in their belief that Hondo had greater overall value to the team coming off the bench, and resisted fan pleas. During his 16-year career with the Celtics, one of the greatest players the NBA has ever seen never started a single game.

I bet he played starter minutes

[Dr Z]

I bet he played starter minutes

True. He also put up the peach basket before the game, and took it down after. JH may not be a very relevant comparison, but DIG gets extra merit points from our AD for the Havlicek reference. #TeamOhio.

[zippy5]

True. He also put up the peach basket before the game, and took it down after. JH may not be a very relevant comparison, but DIG gets extra merit points from our AD for the Havlicek reference. #TeamOhio.

I'm thinking Manu Ginobli might have held some more weight for Dr. Z

[Dave in Green]

Hondo did play starter minutes as the Celtics' 6th man. Since Deji is averaging the 5th most minutes per game of any Zips player, he technically is also playing starter minutes. Over the past few games he's been averaging about 23 minutes per game, roughly the same number of minutes as Pat, Kwan and Jake have averaged on the season. Only the starting PG (first Noah and now Antino) has averaged more than 25 minutes per game when they've been starters in the Zips' deep rotation.

Starting and starter minutes are two separate issues. The Hondo factor could apply to why Coach Dambrot elects not to start Deji. There would be other reasons why Deji plays the number of minutes he does. I speculated in another thread that one possible reason for Deji's limited PT could be his history of back spasms that have caused him to miss practices and games, including the recent EMU game and the 2013 NCAA tournament game against VCU. There are reasons for things that are not always shared with the public, so all we can do is speculate.

[skip-zip]

True. He also put up the peach basket before the game, and took it down after. JH may not be a very relevant comparison, but DIG gets extra merit points from our AD for the Havlicek reference. #TeamOhio.

Way to go Dave

Come to think of it, I need to get me a TeamOhio tattoo. Maybe I should ask an OSWho football player where I can go to get that

[1981 grad]

I understand what you are saying but this team needs scoring, needs somebody to get to the foul line and make foul shots, and can get to the basket and not rely on a 3 point shot. We do not have the luxury of bringing the one guy who is producing these 3 things coming off the bench.

I also think if Hondo were playing today, he would be a starter.

[Dave in Green]

1981 grad, I get it that you have very strong beliefs on this issue. In my experience it goes on with every sports team and every fan base. Many fans of every team come up with ideas that seem so logical that they can't believe the coach is not doing it. The point I was trying to make is that in most cases coaches have very good reasons to do it one way rather than the other. It seems so logical that the second leading scorer on any basketball team should be a starter that it defies logic when it's not that way.

I would just say that Coach Dambrot is no dummy. He reads the box scores and knows who his second leading scorer is. In spite of that he has well-considered reasons not to make Deji a starter. I wish I could tell you why. But to the best of my knowledge, no one here knows exactly why. We can only speculate. It's interesting as Deji nears the end of his career at UA that he has gone from the player who many on this forum wanted to kick down to D-II to the guy they want in the starting lineup.

If Coach Dambrot was smart enough to keep Deji as a Zips player in D-I when fans wanted to dump him, he's probably smart enough to know if Deji contributes more to the total team effort off the bench than he would as a starter and also how many minutes he should play in each game for maximum effectiveness. Coach Dambrot might be wrong, but I have more confidence in him than in fickle fans -- Zips fans in general, not you specifically -- who went from dissing Deji to begging for more of him.

[Dr Z]

Coach Dambrot might be wrong, but I have more confidence in him than in fickle fans -- Zips fans in general, not you specifically -- who went from dissing Deji to begging for more of him.

Fans of the team don't care what a player does in practice, they want to see more of a player when they are producing during the game, and less when they are not. Not a mystery. Dambrot isn't the first coach to be wrong, and won't be the last. He often admits many of his in game mistakes during his post game pressers when he is emotional. I enjoy the honesty.

[clarkwgriswold]

1981 grad, I get it that you have very strong beliefs on this issue. In my experience it goes on with every sports team and every fan base. Many fans of every team come up with ideas that seem so logical that they can't believe the coach is not doing it. The point I was trying to make is that in most cases coaches have very good reasons to do it one way rather than the other. It seems so logical that the second leading scorer on any basketball team should be a starter that it defies logic when it's not that way.

I would just say that Coach Dambrot is no dummy. He reads the box scores and knows who his second leading scorer is. In spite of that he has well-considered reasons not to make Deji a starter. I wish I could tell you why. But to the best of my knowledge, no one here knows exactly why. We can only speculate. It's interesting as Deji nears the end of his career at UA that he has gone from the player who many on this forum wanted to kick down to D-II to the guy they want in the starting lineup.

If Coach Dambrot was smart enough to keep Deji as a Zips player in D-I when fans wanted to dump him, he's probably smart enough to know if Deji contributes more to the total team effort off the bench than he would as a starter and also how many minutes he should play in each game for maximum effectiveness. Coach Dambrot might be wrong, but I have more confidence in him than in fickle fans -- Zips fans in general, not you specifically -- who went from dissing Deji to begging for more of him.

You mean we should value the judgment of a person who has spent their career coaching basketball and who sees the kid play 10 to 12 hours a week over fans who see a kid in games maybe 50 minutes a week?

Don't get me wrong. I get frustrated with KD at times as it seems like he makes substitutions off of a predetermined schedule, often taking out a player that is hot at a given time in a game. That being said, I figure he is in a far better position to make those calls than me.

Regardless, this thread is a great commentary on Deji. As Dave points out, Deji hasn't always been held in such high regard by Zips fans. He has obviously worked very hard to improve his game and it shows, and the result has been him going from one of the Zips most critiqued players to a fan favorite. I hope he has a huge night on Senior Night and a nice tournament run to end his career.

[Sportsjunkie330]

One question... suppose Deji is inserted in to the lineup....

1) who does he replace?

2) where are the points from the second unit going to come from?

[zippy5]

One question... suppose Deji is inserted in to the lineup....

1) who does he replace?

2) where are the points from the second unit going to come from?

1) Nyles

2) Who cares? I'd rather worry about that than where the points from the 1st unit are coming from.

[Dr Z]

One question... suppose Deji is inserted in to the lineup....1) who does he replace? 2) where are the points from the second unit going to come from?

1) Replace the player that isn't putting the ball through the hoop. 2) Increased shooting percentage by running plays that create good looks...not standing around and firing up three after three.

I could care less if DI4 starts, just give him more minutes...and drink some damn pickle juice! Step it up trainer.

[1981 grad]

If this was not senior night, my starting 5 would be Deji, Antino, Pat, Big Dog, and B.J. Gladden. Since it is senior night I would start Evans instead of Gladden or Big Dog.

I think that Kwan has been playing better coming off the bench so I am going with the twin towers.

I am also going with Gladden because when you look at minutes played, his scoring is just as good as Reggie or Kretzer.

Finally, I think KD is a great coach. Having watched the Hipsher and Coleman Crawford years, he has done wonders with this team. However, my understanding of this forum is to express my ideas of what I like or dislike about this team.

I do not like KD's idea of the 6th man spark plug off the bench when the team is struggling to score. He did it last year with Q. He finally started Q and it improved the team. It is time to abandon that idea with Deji. He is playing too well to come off the bench.

[bigzipguy]

Havlicek was a starter on the 1976 Celtics team which defeated the Phoenix Suns in the finals.

I believe he was also a starter on the 1974 Celtics team which defeated the Milwaukee Bucks in the finals.

He retired after the 1977-78 season.

[Dave in Green]

What happens when you put all your best scorers in the starting lineup is that when the lower-scoring subs come in you tend to have more scoring droughts. Of course no one on this forum would ever think of complaining about Zips scoring droughts. Or you can try to have more consistent and balanced starting and sub units with a good mix of scorers, rebounders, defenders, etc., on each. The former works best for teams with a short bench whose starters all play long minutes while the latter makes more sense for a team that plays a deep bench with more evenly distributed PT.

The deep bench and frequent rotation employed by the Zips is much more open to second-guessing than teams like Toledo and Buffalo that have really strong starting fives who all play long minutes. However, it should be noted that Buffalo's coaching staff recognized that their starters were worn out and outplayed by the Zips at the end of their earlier game at the JAR, and they adjusted for the game in Canada by using more subs and keeping the starting five fresher for the end of the game, when they pulled away from the Zips. Appropriate adjustments are a sign of a good coach, and even those who may not agree with all of Coach Dambrot's decisions seem to agree that he's a good coach. So it will be interesting to see what adjustments the Zips make over the next few games.

Anyway, this is a good discussion where everyone seems to have mutual respect for each others' opinions.

[Dave in Green]

Havlicek was a starter on the 1976 Celtics team which defeated the Phoenix Suns in the finals.

I believe he was also a starter on the 1974 Celtics team which defeated the Milwaukee Bucks in the finals.

He retired after the 1977-78 season.

You are correct. I was going by basketball-reference.com, which does not show him starting any NBA games. But other sources indicate that he did start some games later in his 16-season career. The main point is that a 6th man can be as important to a team as a starter as many great 6th men have proven over the years. It takes a certain type of player who really wants to play that role off the bench and does it well. Who knows if Deji actually prefers his current role over being a starter?

[Dr Z]

The main point is that a 6th man can be as important to a team as a starter as many great 6th men have proven over the years.

If they get the playing time.

[K92]

[Dave in Green]

If they get the playing time.

Agreed. The discussion has turned from starting to playing time. Since different players have different levels of effectiveness depending on how many minutes they play, the question is about the optimum number of minutes per game Deji should play to produce the most effective overall results for the team. If Deji plays longer minutes will it help the team perform better or is he the type of player who produces better in quick bursts with plenty of bench time in between? We know what Coach Dambrot thinks after coaching Deji for the last four seasons by the number of minutes Deji is currently averaging. Some fans have differing opinions. It's an interesting discussion that we revisit every season with different Zips players.

[1981 grad]

Start Deji- we win!

Actually, the starting lineup of Big Dog, Pat, Antino, Evans and Deji did not start well and we were down 7-0 and losing 9-6 at the first time out when the subs came in. However, this starting combination played a little over a minute in the second half and went on a 6-0 run.

KD did not put Deji in the game in the second half until 14:08 of the second half and the score was tied at 35. When he left the game at the 1;44 mark of the game they were up 12 points. This team plays better when he is in the lineup.

I would still start him because I believe you should start the game with your best guys. I thought the Zips really played well with Pat, Antino, Evans, Deji and Aron Jackson.

It will be interesting to see if KD uses this same starters at Miami.

[Dave in Green]

If Deji starting had helped the Zips to a fast start over OU, there would be more merit to giving him more consideration as a full-time starter. In the second half and back in his normal rotation, Deji did what he always does so well, bringing a spark off the bench. As for playing more minutes, Deji played 20 last night. Toward the end of the game he uncharacteristically clanked two free throws off the front of the rim, often considered a sign that a player is fatigued, and went to the bench. Deji has proven time and again to be a great force off the bench playing ~20 minutes per game. I trust that Coach Dambrot will continue to use Deji in the way that he's proven to be most effective to the team.