Game 4—Appalachian State Mountaineers

[Dr Z]

On September 24, 2016 at 5:41 PM, tomzip said:

Can we get a kick-off into the end zone one time. Their starting field position has been great.

Our kickoff coverage did our defense no favors. I would have kicked off to the end zone in the second half. Lets see if this gets changed this week. 

[Dr Z]

On September 24, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Balsy said:

Side note:  I dropped my phone in the stadium today and didn't realize I did until I was already in my seat.  Staff in the stadium were very helpful, but no one had turned it in.  I activated find my iphone (and locked it with instructions of how to get it back to me) it was still in the stadium. Someone found it, because they pressed the buttons on the screen to acknowledge that it had been found.  3 hours latter no contact, and no-one turned it into the UAPD (or the stadium staff who would ultimately give it to the UAPD).  I'm kinda bummed, because that means a Zips fan (or App. State visitor) took my phone, and that'd be a real shame.  

Any luck yet?

[skip-zip]

18 minutes ago, Dr Z said:

Our kickoff coverage did our defense no favors. I would have kicked off to the end zone in the second half. Lets see if this gets changed this week. 

 

It seemed that the advantageous side was kicking to the South end.  It seemed like the ASU kicker was putting them to the back of the end zone on that side, and we were still only kicking to about the 10 yard line when we had that wind direction.  Was that strategic?  Or, do we have a kicker who's not able to kick that deep?

[Dr Z]

11 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

Was that strategic?  Or, do we have a kicker who's not able to kick that deep?

Strategy. 

[Balsy]

25 minutes ago, Dr Z said:

Any luck yet?

 

Unfortunately no.  I had it deactivated and courtesy of phone insurance they're sending me a new one.  My own fault for being careless at the concession stands.  Thanks for following up though!  

[skip-zip]

11 minutes ago, Dr Z said:

Strategy. 

 

If that IS what happened, then we cost ourselves mightily because I can't remember a single kickoff where ASU ended up short of the 25 yard line.  

 

It's hard for me to believe that if you have a kicker capable of booting them through the end zone, and you don't choose to utilize that option throughout the entire course of a game?  Even when your opponent is returning many of them well beyond the 25 ?

 

I'm not really buying it.  I'll be keeping an eye on that.  

[kreed5120]

I'd gripe more about the kickoff coverage if I felt it would have made a difference. The D couldn't slow down the App State rushing game whatsoever.

[skip-zip]

8 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

I'd gripe more about the kickoff coverage if I felt it would have made a difference. The D couldn't slow down the App State rushing game whatsoever.

 

No question.  But, you really increase your chances of stopping an opponent if they have to start 75 yards from the end zone, instead of 60-70 yards away.

 

I'm sure plenty of people have data to support this strategy, because everyone who is capable appears to be booting it through the end zone, and eliminating that risk.  

[kreed5120]

18 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

No question.  But, you really increase your chances of stopping an opponent if they have to start 75 yards from the end zone, instead of 60-70 yards away.

 

I'm sure plenty of people have data to support this strategy, because everyone who is capable appears to be booting it through the end zone, and eliminating that risk.  

 

Well of course it helps and it could cost them a game or 2 down the line. I just don't feel it had an impact on this game in particular. App State IMO would have just exceeded 600+ of offense instead of having 587. App State owned the line of scrimmage and Akron's undisciplined defenders abandoned their assigned gaps falling victim to Appalachian State misdirection plays. Fortunately we likely won't see another offense like that all season.

[skip-zip]

9 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Well of course it helps and it could cost them a game or 2 down the line. I just don't feel it had an impact on this game in particular. App State IMO would have just exceeded 600+ of offense instead of having 587. App State owned the line of scrimmage and Akron's undisciplined defenders abandoned their assigned gaps falling victim to Appalachian State misdirection plays. Fortunately we likely won't see another offense like that all season.

 

I'm well aware of how the game went.  But I'll call you crazy if you think that 10 more yards and having to earn one more 1st down wouldn't have had any impact.  

[kreed5120]

9 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

I'm well aware of how the game went.  But I'll call you crazy if you think that 10 more yards and having to earn one more 1st down wouldn't have had any impact.  

 

We'll never know for certain. I just have little faith that a defense that forced 1 punt the entire game could have stopped App State on any of the drives they scored.

[skip-zip]

12 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

We'll never know for certain. I just have little faith that a defense that forced 1 punt the entire game could have stopped App State on any of the drives they scored.

 

Well, I sure hope our team doesn't believe that field position doesn't matter if the other team has a good offense.  

[kreed5120]

9 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Well, I sure hope our team doesn't believe that field position doesn't matter if the other team has a good offense.  

 

I'm pretty sure you hear what you want to hear. I clearly stated that the poor kick coverage could cost them down the line. App State was a poor match up against an already suspect Zips D. They run a lot of misdirection and trick plays which fooled an inexperienced and still developing Zips defense. App State lived the entire game dealing with 2nd and 3s. It's not like the Zips were putting them in 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 8 positions and App State was making plays to extend drives. They were moving the ball at will against us.

[skip-zip]

8 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

I'm pretty sure you hear what you want to hear. I clearly stated that the poor kick coverage could cost them down the line. App State was a poor match up against an already suspect Zips D. They run a lot of misdirection and trick plays which fooled an inexperienced and still developing Zips defense. App State lived the entire game dealing with 2nd and 3s. It's not like the Zips were putting them in 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 8 positions and App State was making plays to extend drives. They were moving the ball at will against us.

 

No, I heard what you said.  I know what transpired during the game.  I was there.  And I think you are wrong to assume that field position would not have mattered.  

 

But thanks for your opinion, and for the lecture about my listening skills.  

[kreed5120]

17 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

No, I heard what you said.  I know what transpired during the game.  I was there.  And I think you are wrong to assume that field position would not have mattered.  

 

But thanks for your opinion, and for the lecture about my listening skills.  

 

Well I feel you are wrong in assuming the defense would have suddenly came up with stops when they didn't show that ability all game. We can agree to disagree.

 

And thank you for trying to put words in my mouth by insinuating that I was saying field position doesn't matter.

 

PS:

I'm seeing App State scored TDs from distances of 36 yards, 37 yards, 49 yards, and 32 yards. All of which the App State player could have gained an extra 15-20 yards, or more. Field position certainly had no impact on those drives.

Edited September 26, 2016 by kreed5120

[Dead Horse]

45 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

App State lived the entire game dealing with 2nd and 3s. It's not like the Zips were putting them in 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 8 positions and App State was making plays to extend drives. They were moving the ball at will against us.

Bingo. Not going to beat anyone from anywhere on the field giving up too many yards on first down. Hats off to ASU's offensive line. Dominated the Zips not giving up a sack and converting on third down 54% of the time.

 

This is a good Zips team. 7 wins minimum. See everyone at the bowl game.

[72 Roo]

FWIW I want to offer my late post on the App State game.

• Shame on our students for not supporting this team. There's a lot of talk about attendance in that mainly we all want more fans there. Joe Akron won't show up until Akron games become an "event". The students have to make it so. This game was perfect weather, good opponent, and a lot on the line. Our 3,500 students in the dorms and an equal amount living within 1 mile of the Info ought to be ashamed for their support of their school's team. I can't wait until the culture changes and the students get off their ass. We can't do it w/o them.
• Our DE's are overrated. ASU repeatedly ran outside and we had no containment.
• Millwee is back to being predictable in play calling. His counterpart constantly had us guessing.
• Amato also needs to up his game. Our D, especially the DL, brings little to no pressure on the QB
• Our special teams are below MAC standards. This starts with coaching and Terry has to hold Jeff accountable.
• The sky is not falling, we just lost a golden opportunity to position ourselves for a take-notice season. We still have a bright season left and we will achieve it. ASU was as good as any MAC leader, except maybe WMU.
• Keep the faith. Terry got us this far. He can take us farther.

I welcome any criticism of my thoughts.

 

[Captain Kangaroo]

To your points -

 

1.) No doubt it would be a better game day environment if more than 76 students filled the student section. I think the section could be full one day. It was around 2008 when UA filled up several student buses and essentially filled the endzone AT Kent. That student section was responsible for the Kent kicker shanking a field goal attempt in OT giving the Zips the victory. JD Brookhart made the coin flip decision to defend the Zips student section endzone because the students created such and an advantage. 

 

The point being - someone got off their butt and really rallied the students. They, in turn, got off their butt and supported the team. Hopefully Matt Newhouse's return to campus gets the student ship righted. But it won't happen overnight. At least Bowden has the team winning some games for the first time in a decade. That's the biggest hurdle.

 

2.) Are the DE's overrated? I know Marcus has been banged up. Pittman really hasn't done much. But I don't pin all the defense's problems against the run on the D line. LB's really haven't made an impact. There's unfortunately no more Jatavis wreaking havoc in the backfield. We'll see what happens over the next 2 weeks. App State had a great O line.

 

Our D held them to 14 points in the 2nd half. If they can build off that 2nd half performance and spread that effort and energy over a full game, we can beat anyone remaining on our schedule. 

 

3.) Other than the last possession, I can't complain much about Milwee vs. App State. He took what their defense gave us, and the offense put up some big numbers. It's a lot of pressure on the offense to essentially need to play perfect football against a good team. And that what they needed to do for the Zips to win last Saturday. The two Woodson INTs really put us in a hole. That said, the Zips waving the white flag at the end of the first half was a coaching decision that ended up costing us big time. On 2nd and 28 we ran clock and punted. That gave App State plenty of time to carve up our D and get a final TD before the half ended. For some reason Bowden thought it was 2015, and not 2016. And that last possession? Jesus...we had 2 full minutes left on the clock, and played like we had 19 seconds. 

 

4.) I don't know that Amato can do more than he's doing. Any coach will tell you he'll take talent over scheme every day of the week. You can only scheme so much when the talent and/or experience is limited.  We lost too much talent from last season. Hopefully we get better, and healthier as the season wears on. And there are no more weddings.

 

5.) The kick off game was atrocious last week. We gave a potent offense a free 10-15 yards on virtually every kick off. When your D is suspect, that is a deal-breaker. I can't complain about our punting game. It was an easy week for Michael Buddenberg too.

 

6.) WMU and Toledo are fairly scary propositions. Somehow we need to summon that "Marshall effort" on D. The upside for the 2016 Zips lies in the improvement the defense makes from here-on-out. If the D is maxed out, and it may be, 8 wins is still to be expected prior to our MAC Championship game.

 

I think Bowden is doing a great job. But I reserve the right to change my mind if we finish 6-6. I don't think we will. 

 

 

[zipsoutsider]

50 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

 

3.) Other than the last possession, I can't complain much about Milwee vs. App State. He took what their defense gave us, and the offense put up some big numbers. It's a lot of pressure on the offense to essentially need to play perfect football against a good team. And that what they needed to do for the Zips to win last Saturday. The two Woodson INTs really put us in a hole. That said, the Zips waving the white flag at the end of the first half was a coaching decision that ended up costing us big time. On 2nd and 28 we ran clock and punted. That gave App State plenty of time to carve up our D and get a final TD before the half ended. For some reason Bowden thought it was 2015, and not 2016. And that last possession? Jesus...we had 2 full minutes left on the clock, and played like we had 19 seconds. 

 

4.) I don't know that Amato can do more than he's doing. Any coach will tell you he'll take talent over scheme every day of the week. You can only scheme so much when the talent and/or experience is limited.  We lost too much talent from last season. Hopefully we get better, and healthier as the season wears on. And there are no more weddings.

 

5.) The kick off game was atrocious last week. We gave a potent offense a free 10-15 yards on virtually every kick off. When your D is suspect, that is a deal-breaker. I can't complain about our punting game. It was an easy week for Michael Buddenberg too.

 

6.) WMU and Toledo are fairly scary propositions. Somehow we need to summon that "Marshall effort" on D. The upside for the 2016 Zips lies in the improvement the defense makes from here-on-out. If the D is maxed out, and it may be, 8 wins is still to be expected prior to our MAC Championship game.

 

I think Bowden is doing a great job. But I reserve the right to change my mind if we finish 6-6. I don't think we will. 

 

 

3. - Agree completely. App State deserves a lot of credit for being prepared for us and defending us, well. The coverage was good. We took what we could in short passes, but it wasn't enough. At times, Tommy might have tried to force the long ball, but we can't give up on it completely, even when well defended, if we want to keep them honest. I still would like to have seen a few more screen passes and maybe some more sweeps.

 

4 - Again, agree completely. I think Kent gives the D a good chance to improve. App State is a tough, physical offense. I don't think any of the front 7 are awful, but none of them are showing up as outstanding, yet. We are no longer the defensive power house we were and it takes some getting used to, but we no longer have to depend on them to carry the load for the offense to win games, either. This year, we have to ask the offense to carry the load. Ideally, both units would be great, but we just aren't there, yet.

 

5- I have to agree about the kicking game. Why did we use 2 different guys for kicking off? O'Leary is our best kick-off guy, by far.

 

6- Yes, and I think Toledo always seems to get ignored, to other teams; peril. I don't think they are unbeatable and we do have a couple of weeks for Amato to continue helping these guys progress.

 

Agree - a trip to Detroit in December is within sight!

[skip-zip]

7 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

5.) The kick off game was atrocious last week. We gave a potent offense a free 10-15 yards on virtually every kick off. When your D is suspect, that is a deal-breaker. 

 

Excellent point.  This was a major problem that happened repeatedly.

 

I mentioned earlier that I HOPE that it was just a strategic error, which can be fixed.  If our kicker struggles to kick deep, that's a big deal.  ASU's kicker was certainly able to kick through the end zone.   

[Balsy]

11 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Shame on our students for not supporting this team. There's a lot of talk about attendance in that mainly we all want more fans there. Joe Akron won't show up until Akron games become an "event". The students have to make it so. This game was perfect weather, good opponent, and a lot on the line. Our 3,500 students in the dorms and an equal amount living within 1 mile of the Info ought to be ashamed for their support of their school's team. I can't wait until the culture changes and the students get off their ass. We can't do it w/o them.

 

This is the only comment I thought I'd offer some commentary on, having been on campus from the Fall of '08-'13.  I used to have this same opinion until my last 2 years on campus.  I was always upset about students not supporting the Akron teams.  But I think it's important to note these several things:

 

1) a lot of those students in the area work jobs and wouldn't be going to the games anyways.  This was the case for a lot of my friends in college.  They lived a half-mile from Infocision, but worked during the day on Saturday.  

2) The entire time I was at UA I never saw ANY effort by administration at UA to build/encourage that student involvement culture.  Hell, my first Zips football game was when Syracuse came to town, and I didn't even know I could get into the game for free.  Now, I was a commuter student mind you, so I don't know about the efforts made for on campus students to be involved.

3) When you go to games, you feel like you're a child.  The announcer says things like "lets try for real this time" on chants MULTIPLE TIMES and other nonsense like that. We get it...the stadium is empty, don't keep pointing it out. 

4)  I've talked at length on this forum about the many, very easy, ways to increase student participation feel free to PM me and I'll go into more detail with you personally...but one thing that is consistent is that the adults running the university do not see/treat the students as if they are adults...that may have ideas that are just as valid as any of theirs  That's at least how it felt while I was there.  

5) AK Rowdy leadership is awful.  I was involved with it for 1 year, and left because the leadership was awful.  But that was just my experience.

[kreed5120]

9 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

1.) No doubt it would be a better game day environment if more than 76 students filled the student section. I think the section could be full one day. It was around 2008 when UA filled up several student buses and essentially filled the endzone AT Kent. That student section was responsible for the Kent kicker shanking a field goal attempt in OT giving the Zips the victory. JD Brookhart made the coin flip decision to defend the Zips student section endzone because the students created such and an advantage. 

 

 

 

Bringing back some good memories. That was my sophomore year and I made the journey to Kent. Storming Kent's field after the miss was probably by all-time favorite Akron sports fan moment as an undergrad.

 

I may have ended up in Akron's drunk tank later on that night, but that is neither here nor there.

[skip-zip]

30 minutes ago, Balsy said:

1) a lot of those students in the area work jobs and wouldn't be going to the games anyways.  This was the case for a lot of my friends in college.  They lived a half-mile from Infocision, but worked during the day on Saturday.  

 

Our home opener was a 6:30 game.  

 

It's not a new phenomenon that college students have jobs.  I did too.  And I can't recall missing many home football or basketball games when I was around in the early 80s.  Are all of these Students working both Saturday during the day and Saturday at night?  The football games aren't always at the same time.  And mysteriously, plenty of them still find a way to walk into the gates to collect their free tee shirts.  

 

Maybe at times, there are conflicting schedules.  But if "Saturday jobs" is the excuse, why are they also mostly absent from those weekday evening football and basketball games?  We're talking about a University of 25,000 students with possibly only a few hundred going to a sporting event that's FREE ?  There's no excuse for that.  

 

I don't dispute the fact that things can be done to attract more students.  But conflicting schedules with their Saturday jobs doesn't account for the 99% of the student population who's not participating.   Even if HALF of them have Saturday jobs, there's still 13,000 students who are not participating.  It's beyond pathetic.  

Edited September 27, 2016 by skip-zip
edit

[skip-zip]

18 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Bringing back some good memories. That was my sophomore year and I made the journey to Kent. Storming Kent's field after the miss was probably by all-time favorite Akron sports fan moment as an undergrad.

 

I may have ended up in Akron's drunk tank later on that night, but that is neither here nor there.

 

That's the kind of student experience that 24,000 students are missing out on.  I had similar ones.  

 

I don't get it.  Thanks for sharing.  

[kreed5120]

10 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

It's not a new phenomenon that college students have jobs.  I did too.  And I can't recall missing many home football or basketball games when I was around in the early 80s.  Are all of these Students working both Saturday during the day and Saturday at night?  The football games aren't always at the same time.  And mysteriously, plenty of them still find a way to walk into the gates to collect their free tee shirts.  

 

Maybe at times, there are conflicting schedules.  But if "Saturday jobs" is the excuse, why are they also mostly absent from those weekday evening football and basketball games?  We're talking about a University of 25,000 students with possibly only a few hundred going to a sporting event that's FREE ?  There's no excuse for that.  

 

I don't dispute the fact that things can be done to attract more students.  But conflicting schedules with their Saturday jobs doesn't account for the 99% of the student population who's not participating.  

 

I know as an undergrad I rarely made it to weekday games because they typically started at 7 or 730 and I typically had class until 8. Add in homework/tests and kids working the typical past 5 PM minimum jobs and I can understand why weekday attendance is bad. Friday/Saturday there is no excuse.