Game 10—Toledo Rockets

[K92]

622 yards given up last night.  Ouch.

[Lee Adams]

Whatever the announced attendance was,the actual number was far lower. I needed binos. to find other people in the stands.

Anyway,the problems with this years version of this team go beyond a defense that can't rush the passer,stop the run or tackle.(Hello Coach Amato). And,its not just because of injuries. This has been brewing all season.

I am as concerned about the inability of the OFFENSIVE side of the ball to adjust to changing circumstances. We know Woodson got hurt in the App. State game. Correct? 

When the QB is the focus of the offense as he is in a Bowden offense it is very likely he will get injured sometime during the season. I still keep wondering why,Bowden does not take some of the pressure off of his QB and his defense by featuring the run more. Last night was an example. Woodson was not that sharp(17-33-1 pick). It was clear he did not want to run when the opportunities were there,wisely I suppose trying to protect his shoulder. When, Bowden finally did go to D.J. Jones maybe too late,he managed 72 yards in 11 carries. It might be wise to emphasize the run from the jump,maybe 2 backs with an H to take some of the game off Woodson's arm and to keep the defense off the field. You can always run motion off of that to open the field.

Anyway,hope they can pull one more out to at least become Bowl eligible,for what its worth.

 

[skip-zip]

26 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Whatever the announced attendance was,the actual number was far lower.

 

The understatement of the day.  And that applies to every game anyway. 

 

I'm sure "no-shows" were at a premium last nigh though.  In fact, I saw someone outside the Stadium asking if anyone wanted to buy his tickets.  My wife and I laughed.  I probably should have saved him from the effort, and told him to just hand them to someone.  What was he thinking?

[kreed5120]

14 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

The understatement of the day.  And that applies to every game anyway. 

 

I'm sure "no-shows" were at a premium last nigh though.  In fact, I saw someone outside the Stadium asking if anyone wanted to buy his tickets.  My wife and I laughed.  I probably should have saved him from the effort, and told him to just hand them to someone.  What was he thinking?

I've heard a lot of excuses for our lackluster attendance over the years, but last night was the most legitimate one and one that I'll actually defend.

[Captain Kangaroo]

58 minutes ago, K92 said:

622 yards given up last night.  Ouch.

True. But most of that was in "garbage time." 

 

Unfortunately for the Zips, there was roughly 57 minutes of garbage time last night.

[ziptageous]

Well, let's see now.  Hard to discuss this one but a few observations.  The outcome was already determined to me after watching that disgrace in Buffalo.   Yes, we had a lot to replace this year defensively, no doubt about it.  The defense last year was the key to the success.  Offense had little to do with it.   They did just enough to get by. They were up and down with the competition.  

 

Staying on defense, we've had a lot of injuries this year and depth has been an issue.  I agree with the one post that discussed lacking leadership, there were many more emotional leaders last year   This year the offense is supposed to be better and it might be but like last year and the year before there is no offensive consistency.  The skill of the receivers is dramatically improved, they are open and can catch the ball.  They run well after the catch too.  I Really liked the running of Jones in the second half, wonder where that was earlier in the game.  

 

Akron players never seemed like they expected to win this game and when things went downhill, it went quickly.  There is something about a mental edge and in key spots, we just don't have it.  In coaching player decisions, we're really too narrowly focussed and think we have something we don't.  

 

 

[LZIp]

On 10/30/2016 at 9:26 AM, LZIp said:

Rockets 55, Zips 10.

Shame on me for underestimating the mighty Zippers by 2 TDs.

[skip-zip]

5 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

I've heard a lot of excuses for our lackluster attendance over the years, but last night was the most legitimate one and one that I'll actually defend.

 

Well......I won't say that I would ever defend anyone who already has a ticket for skipping the Zips for another sporting event.  But, you're right that this one had far more legitimacy than many of the other excuses.  

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, ziptageous said:

In coaching player decisions, we're really too narrowly focussed and think we have something we don't.  

^^Can you elaborate on this point?  I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

[ziptageous]

Ok, will try to elaborate.  And, bear in mind that we all just state opinions from observations.  I mostly just watch and read the forum.  I'm a fan of Akron, love the school and what is becoming.  It's an awesome place.   Hated the football under Rob I but loved the offense under Bowden's first year with Dalton.  I saw a lot of promise even though we went 1-10.  Dalton was a great young man, a wonderful player and that offense worked.  The problem with that year is that we could move the ball on anyone but could stop no one thanks to Rob I.  That changed as coach Chuck got involved.  I have always thought he was a defensive genius.  May be past his prime but better than anyone we ever had before and our defenses of the past 3-4 years have shown huge improvement, best in the MAC one year.  With that said, since Dalton there has been no offensive consistency.  A spark here and there but nothing consistent.  

 

Ok, here is my opinion about questionable coaching personnel decisions and you are welcome to yours.   The year that Kyle Pohl emerged came out of the Michigan game when he performed right up there with our defensive performance.   We were close to an upset on the road of a major P5 program.    Don't know if you remember or not but Kyle had been injured that week and was not even slated to play.  Nick Hirschman was also out with the knee injury.   It was day by day on Kyle.  Do you know who took all the first team reps at QB that week?   Dalton Easton.  Remember him?  Well, Dalton was told by all he was going to start at Michigan.  Dalton never saw a play the rest of the year as Kyle emerged and Hirschman was hurt.   Kyle went the rest of the way, played well enough to solidify his position for that and the next year.    Dalton Easton transferred out to an FCS program, never given a chance at Akron.  Now, in all fairness, he was smaller than a typical QB but my point is the kid was NEVER given a chance.   I watched a lot of practices, the kid was quick, made good decisions, got first team reps but because of OC tunnel vision did not see the field.  Bottom line, he went to Bryant, assumed a starting QB role and turned their offense around.  Weaker last year but his first and second year there he did well, a lot better than Tra'von ever did at The D 2 school he transferred from.   Go to the 2014 season and We have Kyle as the Junior and Hirschman as the 5th year senior.   Hirschman wanted to play badly but he never saw the field one single play that year.   He was a really good QB and had big time game experience as a transfer from Colorado.   When the coaches went from Kyle to Woodson and bypassed Hirschman to give things a try, it was a bust.  Kyle was the guy that year no doubt about it but from what I heard and what I saw, Hirschman was the clear number 2 and maybe should have had the chance at number 1.  He was good.   That year, when Woodson came in we nearly lost the game and the next two games we could have won, we didn't.  We lost to a weak Ball State team and the other game I have to go look up but equally disappointing.   Here you have a seasoned Hirschman on the bench and we are going with a QB that doesn't have it.  

 

Open the 2015 season with Tra'von?  Are you kidding me?  The kid is an athlete, not a QB.  He can run but he cannot pass.   Kyle Pohl sitting on the bench and we have to watch this.  Like I said, tunnel vision kept Tra'von in there until half way through the savannah state disaster when they finally benched him.  Woody came in and played good that game but the first three games of 2015 showed me all I needed to see about questionable decisions.  Like Bowden has said, Woody can throw the ball and while he is a little illusive for a big kid, he's not fast.   He makes bad reads a lot of times and I know the same could be said of Kyle in the red zone in 2014.  Anyway, ive seen a certain type of QB athlete be given a lot of opportunities and I've seen another class of QB's shown the door through indifference and being given No chance.  Say all you want about a QB not being that good but you never know what you got until you let a kit show you what he's got.  At Akron football unless you are "the anointed one" by whoever ultimately makes the decision (HC or OC) you are NOT ever going to be given the opportunity to show what you can do.

 

Going back lack to what I started with and Dalton Williams.  That kid was good.  He was a 5th year senior who transferred to Akron because he basically had no where else to go.  He played behind a QB at Stephen f Austin in Texas for 4 years and redshirted his JUNIOR year so he could be the starter in his 5th year senior year.  A coaching change wiped that dream away and he got here because of Milwee and Bowden.  He had a golden arm and could lead an offense but NEVER got a chance his first 4 years.  At Akron he did and he was the guy going in.   What he did with his opportunity showed everyone a lot and he went on to compete for an NFL job because he did such a great job at AKron.   Good for him.  The guy starting in front of him all those years at SFA?  Nothing there.  Dalton Williams did good because he was good and because he was given a chance.  Our offensive inconsistency is because a lot of other QB's have not been given a chance.   Until the mindset is changed and other QB's given a chance, not much will change.   

[Blue & Gold]

4 hours ago, ziptageous said:

Ok, will try to elaborate...

Great post.  Thanks!!

[LZIp]

I liked Dalton. Nice player and good person, but that team went 1-11. Oh, but it was because of the defense? Our defense that year ranked 101st in YPG and 107th in PPG. This year the defense so far ranks 119th in YPG and 111th in PPG. You read that correct. Our defense this year is worse than the defense from our 1-11 season. Fortunately, IMO, we know that Chuck can still coach. We had an ELITE defense last year. I truly believe the issue is a lack of depth (meaning we were very thin/green behind the starters last season). I don't recall having really any injury issues for the D last year..or even offense really for that matter. It is part of the coaches fault? Probably. But I still think its part of building a program.

 

This season is now a wash for me. Make a bowl game and I'll say that a positive came from it. Somehow beating OU/them losing to CMU and we make the MAC-C to get crushed by WMU would be somewhat of a cherry on top I guess.

Edited November 4, 2016 by LZIp

[ziptageous]

Agree with you in that the season is a wash.  We probably beat the bugs and lose at Ohio.  If somehow we can pull out a win at Ohio that would be incredible.  I think it is possible for us to do it too.   6-5 and a bowl invitation would be nice.  Next year, because of my feelings about tunnel vision in player selections we do not change much offensively.   I see offensive inconsistency next year and if Tra'von isn't switched to receiver we lose a gifted player from being on the field.

[Balsy]

18 hours ago, ziptageous said:

(1)... loved the offense under Bowden's first year with Dalton....

 

(2)... Kyle had been injured that week and was not even slated to play.  Nick Hirschman was also out with the knee injury.   It was day by day on Kyle.  Do you know who took all the first team reps at QB that week? ...

 

(3) Open the 2015 season with Tra'von?  Are you kidding me?  The kid is an athlete, not a QB.  He can run but he cannot pass.   Kyle Pohl sitting on the bench and we have to watch this.  ... Woody came in and played good that game but the first three games of 2015 showed me all I needed to see about questionable decisions....

 

(4)  He makes bad reads a lot of times and I know the same could be said of Kyle in the red zone in 2014.  Anyway, ive seen a certain type of QB athlete be given a lot of opportunities and I've seen another class of QB's shown the door through indifference and being given No chance.  Say all you want about a QB not being that good but you never know what you got until you let a kit show you what he's got.  At Akron football unless you are "the anointed one" by whoever ultimately makes the decision (HC or OC) you are NOT ever going to be given the opportunity to show what you can do.

 

(5) QB's have not been given a chance.   Until the mindset is changed and other QB's given a chance, not much will change.   

 

Great post...though there's a couple of points I'd like to address for the conversation, note I too am a casual observer and this view is my opinion:

 

(1) I agree, with this.  Dalton remains on of my favorite Zips QBs in the short time that I've been a Zips fan.

 

(2) I had forgotten about the James Madison game when Hirschmann hurt is knee (supposedly celebrating, which was discussed at length on this forum), but when it comes to the 2014 season and switching to Woodson (redshirt freshman) over Hirschmann, there was a discussion on this forum on wether Hirschmann was ever really right after his knee injury, and the consensus was that he wasn't which was why the switch was made.  And it's not like switching to Woodson was switching to a no buddy...Woodson was clearly a viable option and had played very well up until the Ball State game.  Kyle Pohl hadn't been playing well that season, and he had a knack for throwing redzone interceptions.  Woodson outperformed Pohl in one game (as a redshirt freshman) and looked promising.  Woodson's inexperience (and we can say that now because of what we've seen of his capabilities the last two years) was his weakness. From what we saw of Dalton Easton, he wasn't anything special.  He and Steve Franco did nothing in their spring game debut that made me think they were future viable options.  

 

(3)  Coach made it very clear that protecting the football was important.  Pohl and Woodson had shown that they had an inability to do that.  Pohl, also never seemed right after the concussion he suffered in 2014.  He wasn't the same player IMHO, and coaches are not required to report injuries.  None of us know the extent to which Pohl suffered an injury, and what coaching decisions were made about that.  Keeping with Chapman over Woodson for as long as he did, I'll give you...but I won't give you the argument about not starting Pohl.  I have firmly believed there was more to that situation than casual observers know.  And if it was for the protection of a player's health...it absolutely is a good coaching decision.  The bottom line is we don't know, so the speculation on not starting Pohl cannot be used as a poor coaching decision, IMHO. 

 

(4)  Woodson, before injury this year, was on pace to becoming the best QB in Akron school history in every statistical category.  The decision to go to Woodson over Pohl was a no-brainer.  I always thought Woodson was > Pohl because he had an upside Pohl didn't.  This was a very good coaching decision.  Pohl's ceiling was 5-7.  Woodson's ceiling is still TBD.  Pohl's was never going to be responsible for a win, while Woodson has been...and even Chapman for that matter (Kent this season).

 

QBs don't need to show coaches something in game situations to know if their going to make it or not.  Coaches watch these guys in practice.   If you're not standing out in practice, your not going to make it.  It was also discussed at length on this forum that T. Woodson may have had some personal doubt issues that led coach to placing him behind Chapman.  He had that twitter picture of the pre-season "goals" the team set for themselves where he put "be myself again".  

 

(5) The offense is not the reason we are having a mediocre 2016.  It's the defense.  I don't agree with this sentiment at all.  Dalton was given a chance and thrived. Pohl was given a chance: Pohl did what was expected of any QB in 2013.  2014, Pohl's lackluster play and injury gave rise to Woodson, who's inconsistent play as a freshman led to a hobbling season.  Chapman (a new, who fits the bill of Dalton Williams as you described) was given a chance, like you asked for, and nothing became of it.  Woodson, was given a second chance, which seems to be what your asking for, and has thrived.  Woodson has been outstanding for the Zips the past two seasons, and improved this year over last year...and could potentially still improve in his senior year over this year, something the coaches saw that many of us may not have seen.  Caleb Chapman, who appears to have fit the mold the coaches wanted, transferred after one year to Gardner-Webb and hasn't done anything of note there.  

[Lee Adams]

On 11/4/2016 at 0:42 PM, ziptageous said:

Ok, will try to elaborate.  And, bear in mind that we all just state opinions from observations.  I mostly just watch and read the forum.  I'm a fan of Akron, love the school and what is becoming.  It's an awesome place.   Hated the football under Rob I but loved the offense under Bowden's first year with Dalton.  I saw a lot of promise even though we went 1-10.  Dalton was a great young man, a wonderful player and that offense worked.  The problem with that year is that we could move the ball on anyone but could stop no one thanks to Rob I.  That changed as coach Chuck got involved.  I have always thought he was a defensive genius.  May be past his prime but better than anyone we ever had before and our defenses of the past 3-4 years have shown huge improvement, best in the MAC one year.  With that said, since Dalton there has been no offensive consistency.  A spark here and there but nothing consistent.  

 

Ok, here is my opinion about questionable coaching personnel decisions and you are welcome to yours.   The year that Kyle Pohl emerged came out of the Michigan game when he performed right up there with our defensive performance.   We were close to an upset on the road of a major P5 program.    Don't know if you remember or not but Kyle had been injured that week and was not even slated to play.  Nick Hirschman was also out with the knee injury.   It was day by day on Kyle.  Do you know who took all the first team reps at QB that week?   Dalton Easton.  Remember him?  Well, Dalton was told by all he was going to start at Michigan.  Dalton never saw a play the rest of the year as Kyle emerged and Hirschman was hurt.   Kyle went the rest of the way, played well enough to solidify his position for that and the next year.    Dalton Easton transferred out to an FCS program, never given a chance at Akron.  Now, in all fairness, he was smaller than a typical QB but my point is the kid was NEVER given a chance.   I watched a lot of practices, the kid was quick, made good decisions, got first team reps but because of OC tunnel vision did not see the field.  Bottom line, he went to Bryant, assumed a starting QB role and turned their offense around.  Weaker last year but his first and second year there he did well, a lot better than Tra'von ever did at The D 2 school he transferred from.   Go to the 2014 season and We have Kyle as the Junior and Hirschman as the 5th year senior.   Hirschman wanted to play badly but he never saw the field one single play that year.   He was a really good QB and had big time game experience as a transfer from Colorado.   When the coaches went from Kyle to Woodson and bypassed Hirschman to give things a try, it was a bust.  Kyle was the guy that year no doubt about it but from what I heard and what I saw, Hirschman was the clear number 2 and maybe should have had the chance at number 1.  He was good.   That year, when Woodson came in we nearly lost the game and the next two games we could have won, we didn't.  We lost to a weak Ball State team and the other game I have to go look up but equally disappointing.   Here you have a seasoned Hirschman on the bench and we are going with a QB that doesn't have it.  

 

Open the 2015 season with Tra'von?  Are you kidding me?  The kid is an athlete, not a QB.  He can run but he cannot pass.   Kyle Pohl sitting on the bench and we have to watch this.  Like I said, tunnel vision kept Tra'von in there until half way through the savannah state disaster when they finally benched him.  Woody came in and played good that game but the first three games of 2015 showed me all I needed to see about questionable decisions.  Like Bowden has said, Woody can throw the ball and while he is a little illusive for a big kid, he's not fast.   He makes bad reads a lot of times and I know the same could be said of Kyle in the red zone in 2014.  Anyway, ive seen a certain type of QB athlete be given a lot of opportunities and I've seen another class of QB's shown the door through indifference and being given No chance.  Say all you want about a QB not being that good but you never know what you got until you let a kit show you what he's got.  At Akron football unless you are "the anointed one" by whoever ultimately makes the decision (HC or OC) you are NOT ever going to be given the opportunity to show what you can do.

 

Going back lack to what I started with and Dalton Williams.  That kid was good.  He was a 5th year senior who transferred to Akron because he basically had no where else to go.  He played behind a QB at Stephen f Austin in Texas for 4 years and redshirted his JUNIOR year so he could be the starter in his 5th year senior year.  A coaching change wiped that dream away and he got here because of Milwee and Bowden.  He had a golden arm and could lead an offense but NEVER got a chance his first 4 years.  At Akron he did and he was the guy going in.   What he did with his opportunity showed everyone a lot and he went on to compete for an NFL job because he did such a great job at AKron.   Good for him.  The guy starting in front of him all those years at SFA?  Nothing there.  Dalton Williams did good because he was good and because he was given a chance.  Our offensive inconsistency is because a lot of other QB's have not been given a chance.   Until the mindset is changed and other QB's given a chance, not much will change.   

Ya know I don't usually agree with a lot of the posts on this site. I am a homer but not delusional. After 45 years realism sets in. With that said I usually have no problem questioning coaching. I have seen too much. Bowden has gotten the program to this point, But, it is always fair to objectively,evaluate the performance of the coaches and his staff. That includes Old timers and kids. After this season it will be time to look under the hood.