Bowden Ball Year 5

[UA1987]

49 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

We won 5 games combined from 2009 - 12. So to have won 5 games to finish 2015....and win another 5 games between September 3rd 2016 through October 22nd 2016 shows Bowden has made substantial progress.

 

Last year was the best defense I've ever seen at UA. Bowden and Amato get the credit. Bowl win, and 8 total wins - that's ground-braking stuff at UA.

 

This year has been tough. Graduation on the defensive side has hit us hard. And the replacements are either too young, too injured or too limited to remotely approach the level of play we saw last season. The Buffalo game was as bad a defense performance as I've ever seen. 

 

The offense has been awesome...when healthy. And when not playing in Buffalo. 

 

Bowden's transfer-heavy plan has yielded decent results. I love Jojo, and loved Coe and loved a healthy Jamal Marcus. And many others. But relying heavily on which 1-year players annually come across on the waiver wire comes up snake eyes on occasion too. We rolled a few of those this summer.

 

With Marcus, Moore, Pittman and Boxen all either severely hobbled or completely out, that's just too much to overcome. Other than Gilbert, our LB play has ranged from inconsistent, to flat-out bad. That's been crippling.

 

With a healthy offense, maybe with Ball returning, we can wreak some havoc against Toledo Wednesday. But Kareem Hunt could go for 300 yards. We need to stack the box and take our chances 1-on-1 with the DB's.

 

So getting back to the original question - my opinion is we're WAY better off than we were 5 years ago. Our offense will be great again next season, so I'm not concerned there. But we need a big influx of IMPACT DL's and LB's in 2017 if we're going to become the team we all want the Zips to be. And the one that Larry Williams wants the Zips to be. 

 

We'll see how this season ultimately plays out, plus next season. Bowden's not as sexy as Fleck, but he's definitely earned 6 years. He bought in to the Program and a really difficult time, and represents UA football very well today. 

Yeah, I met Larry Williams before the Western game began. He said what do I need to do to attract fans and went on to point to the caliber of the game day opponent and the beautiful day. I said you want to attract fans - string a few 10 win seasons or better together. He went on to discuss Stroud's recruiting and I told him about he 12,000 (or so) Zips fans that showed up at the Motor City Bowl game in 2005. The fans are there, just spending their money at other games in Columbus and Alliance for now.           

Edited October 31, 2016 by UA1987

[UAZipster0305]

36 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

Yeah, I met Larry Williams before the Western game began. He said what do I need to do to attract fans and went on to point to the caliber of the game day opponent and the beautiful day. I said you want to attract fans - string a few 10 win seasons or better together. He went on to discuss Stroud's recruiting and I told him about he 12,000 (or so) Zips fans that showed up at the Motor City Bowl game in 2005. The fans are there, just spending their money at other games in Columbus and Alliance for now.           

 

The amount of money spent at MU games is pennies compared to the hundreds each of the tens of thousands of OSU fans spend on the game day experience. If MU falls flat, we see no rise in local interest or attendance....OSU on the other hand...it's all daydreaming anyhow. We need to be a consistent winner before anything else matters.

[kreed5120]

1 hour ago, UA1987 said:

Yeah, I met Larry Williams before the Western game began. He said what do I need to do to attract fans and went on to point to the caliber of the game day opponent and the beautiful day. I said you want to attract fans - string a few 10 win seasons or better together. He went on to discuss Stroud's recruiting and I told him about he 12,000 (or so) Zips fans that showed up at the Motor City Bowl game in 2005. The fans are there, just spending their money at other games in Columbus and Alliance for now.           

 

I don't think Mount Union pulls as many people as you think. I've lived 10-15 minutes away from their stadium pretty much my entire life and I've never been to a game nor do I know anyone that has been, including friends that I know that went to Mount. According to this they typically attract between 1500-4500 fans per game. That's far less than what my Division 3 high school pulled. A Saturday McKinley or Massillon game would cost Akron more fans than any Mount Union game would.

 

http://athletics.mountunion.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/teams/mountunion?view=attendance

Edited October 31, 2016 by kreed5120

[UA1987]

43 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

I don't think Mount Union pulls as many people as you think. I've lived 10-15 minutes away from their stadium pretty much my entire life and I've never been to a game nor do I know anyone that has been, including friends that I know that went to Mount. According to this they typically attract between 1500-4500 fans per game. That's far less than what my Division 3 high school pulled. A Saturday McKinley or Massillon game would cost Akron more fans than any Mount Union game would.

 

http://athletics.mountunion.edu/sports/fball/2014-15/teams/mountunion?view=attendance

On two three four five... ten - comments like this draws the cyber bully out in me. Winning draws fans is the point. You can have sunny days, a great facility, an interesting team and coach, but only one thing fills the stadium - WINNING!

https://www.google.com/#q=charlie+sheen+winning

(now if we could just get Wild Thing at one of the Tribe games this week)

       

Edited October 31, 2016 by UA1987

[skip-zip]

Right after I thought I had heard every excuse for why Akron does not draw fans, I see "Mount Union".  I had to wipe my eyes several times to make sure I was seeing that correctly.  

[kreed5120]

53 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

On two three four five... ten - comments like this draws the cyber bully out in me. Winning draws fans is the point. You can have sunny days, a great facility, an interesting team and coach, but only one thing fills the stadium - WINNING!

https://www.google.com/#q=charlie+sheen+winning

(now if we could just get Wild Thing at one of the Tribe games this week)

       

 

If it was that simple Dambrot's teams would be packing the JAR on a regular basis instead of only selling out the typical 1-3 games per year. WMU is ranked and is easily having their best season in program history and sure they have seen an uptick in attendance but they aren't even filling Waldo Stadium to capacity.

[UA1987]

54 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

If it was that simple Dambrot's teams would be packing the JAR on a regular basis instead of only selling out the typical 1-3 games per year. WMU is ranked and is easily having their best season in program history and sure they have seen an uptick in attendance but they aren't even filling Waldo Stadium to capacity.

In 2013 during the NIU game vs Western (their one win year) at Waldo the Broncos drew 17,679 and this year they drew 28,042 vs NIU, which is 98% capacity. It's that easy. But you go ahead and figure it out.        

[UA1987]

1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

Right after I thought I had heard every excuse for why Akron does not draw fans, I see "Mount Union".  I had to wipe my eyes several times to make sure I was seeing that correctly.  

Yeah and sorry for spelling Cowlumbus wrong. I feel like Jack Nicholson in the 'Cuckoos Nest' today.     

[kreed5120]

1 minute ago, UA1987 said:

In 2013 during the NIU game vs Western (their one win year) at Waldo the Broncos drew 17,679 and this year they drew 28,042 vs NIU, which is 98% capacity. It's that easy. But you go ahead and figure it out.        

 

You mean 92% filled (30,200 capacity), which is great, but what about 23,721 (78.5%) vs EMU and 17,208 (56.9%) vs.Georgia Southern. I never said winning doesn't help, but WMU is also kind of having an historic season here. They aren't going to be able to make a run at 13-0 every year. Akron basketball had a sell out streak when they went on that long winning streak, but guess what people quit caring once their historic run ended even though they have consistently been really great pretty much every year since.

 

You need a sustainable fan base. Not one that only cares about you when you put together one of those once in a generation historical runs. Those are the fans that will abandon you 1st when things go sour. OU has been an above average MAC football team, but they consistently lead or are among the leaders in attendance each year. They've built an actual fan base.

[Hilltopper]

Next year is Bowdens make or break  year. I will give him a pass this year but if we don't really contend for the MAC championship next season it's time for a change. The MAC east is ripe for the picking and we are still not even good enough for better than a 4th place finish in the west. The possibilty of getting a bowl game with a 6-6 record doesn't mean you have a successful program, it means there is glut of bowl games. I feel like we are running somewhat of a renegade program. Taking all the chances on transfers is not helping with recruiting 4 year players that should be the backbone of the program. Trying to hit homeruns every season with somebody elses rejects is not the way to build a consistant winner.

[LZIp]

9 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

Next year is Bowdens make or break  year. I will give him a pass this year but if we don't really contend for the MAC championship next season it's time for a change. The MAC east is ripe for the picking and we are still not even good enough for better than a 4th place finish in the west. The possibilty of getting a bowl game with a 6-6 record doesn't mean you have a successful program, it means there is glut of bowl games. I feel like we are running somewhat of a renegade program. Taking all the chances on transfers is not helping with recruiting 4 year players that should be the backbone of the program. Trying to hit homeruns every season with somebody elses rejects is not the way to build a consistant winner.

Some interesting thoughts there, Hilltopper. I'll start by saying that I agree that next year could probably be the make or break year. We return literally the entire offense outside of Natson and the majority of the defense. What we are mostly losing on defense (DBs), the young ones look capable of being fine replacements. We also have some talented LBs (King, Davis) who will be eligible to play alongside Gilbert.

 

I do agree that trying to hit homeruns every season with someone else's rejects is not the way to build a consistent winner. HOWEVER, we have gotten some great, invaluable players via transfer. We wouldn't be close to where we are if it weren't for transfers. I don't even think its debatable. One thing we need to keep in perspective is that Bowden's first real recruiting class are currently redshirt juniors. This is a recruiting class that came directly after Bowden's own 1-11 season. Some have worked out, but many have and will not. There is still a need to take on transfers, though less so as time goes on as DEPTH (as I mentioned above) is built, I've noticed the past 2 seasons that more and more first year recruits look like they can be contributors. Do you agree with that? I think that's a sign that recruiting is improving, albeit slowly. I believe Bowden himself has stated that he will take less as time goes on.

 

I believe we have had similar discussions about Coach Dambrot as the basketball program's growth has stagnated. One of the main arguments I recall is that the program is a lot better than it was prior to Dambrot. Its interesting to me that you have a different take when it comes to the football program.

[UA1987]

2 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

You mean 92% filled (30,200 capacity), which is great, but what about 23,721 (78.5%) vs EMU and 17,208 (56.9%) vs.Georgia Southern. I never said winning doesn't help, but WMU is also kind of having an historic season here. They aren't going to be able to make a run at 13-0 every year. Akron basketball had a sell out streak when they went on that long winning streak, but guess what people quit caring once their historic run ended even though they have consistently been really great pretty much every year since.

 

You need a sustainable fan base. Not one that only cares about you when you put together one of those once in a generation historical runs. Those are the fans that will abandon you 1st when things go sour. OU has been an above average MAC football team, but they consistently lead or are among the leaders in attendance each year. They've built an actual fan base.

92.8% filled and yeah that's great thank you for admitting that (I think we would take that at the Info). If you think there are bunch of new loyal fans out there waiting to jump on the Zips bandwagon forever you are naïve. Every team has a core of loyal fans but the bulk of fans are just looking for a winner. The key is to win and keep on winning, which I'm hoping Bowden's teams are on track to do.         

Edited October 31, 2016 by UA1987

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

Next year is Bowdens make or break  year. I will give him a pass this year but if we don't really contend for the MAC championship next season

 

We're in contention for the MAC Championship THIS season...stop selling it out.

[skip-zip]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

I do agree that trying to hit homeruns every season with someone else's rejects is not the way to build a consistent winner. HOWEVER, we have gotten some great, invaluable players via transfer. We wouldn't be close to where we are if it weren't for transfers. I don't even think its debatable.

 

I agree 100% on this.  I would have said almost exactly the same thing.  I wasn't a big fan of getting too many transfers in the past, but the Bowden-era Zips teams have really hit the jackpot with many, many players, and have done a fantastic job of assimilating them with current personnel.  It's really given us an infusion of talent when we really needed it to help us get to where we are now.   

[kreed5120]

43 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

92.8% filled and yeah that's great thank you for admitting that (I think we would take that at the Info). If you think there are bunch of new loyal fans out there waiting to jump on the Zips bandwagon forever you are naïve. Every team has a core of loyal fans but the bulk of fans are just looking for a winner. The key is to win and keep on winning, which I'm hoping Bowden's teams are on track to do.         

 

And you're naive if you think Akron can get to the point that it will win 10+ games every year, because it is pretty evident that 8 wins isn't enough to generate interest. That kind of stability isn't feasible in the MAC because even if you do get lucky and find a Fleck, they coach themselves out of the MAC in a handful of seasons which brings you back to square one. You're also competing against people that have similar resources. This isn't the B1G or SEC where certain schools have built in systematic advantages.

[skip-zip]

10 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

And you're naive if you think Akron can get to the point that it will win 10+ games every year, because it is pretty evident that 8 wins isn't enough to generate interest. That kind of stability isn't feasible in the MAC because even if you do get lucky and find a Fleck, they coach themselves out of the MAC in a handful of seasons which brings you back to square one. You're also competing against people that have similar resources. This isn't the B1G or SEC where certain schools have built in systematic advantages.

 

Good post.  

 

We get this viewpoint from time to time on here.  First, you get the "just win and people will come".  Then when we do win, and people don't come, you get the "well, just get to the top of the MAC and sustain it every year".

 

It's a dream proposition.  And it doesn't happen for many of the reasons you describe.   We've possibly seen mini versions of it with short runs in recent years from NIU and CMU, and also from Marshall several years ago as a MAC member.  But, banking on equaling and exceeding these feats that have happened only periodically to a few teams over a period of a couple of decades in a league that has a dozen or so teams competing every year is pretty long odds.  Lottery tickets might be a better option.  

[Balsy]

7 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

And you're naive if you think Akron can get to the point that it will win 10+ games every year, because it is pretty evident that 8 wins isn't enough to generate interest. That kind of stability isn't feasible in the MAC because even if you do get lucky and find a Fleck, they coach themselves out of the MAC in a handful of seasons which brings you back to square one. You're also competing against people that have similar resources. This isn't the B1G or SEC where certain schools have built in systematic advantages.

 

7 hours ago, skip-zip said:

It's a dream proposition.  And it doesn't happen for many of the reasons you describe.   We've possibly seen mini versions of it with short runs in recent years from NIU and CMU, and also from Marshall several years ago as a MAC member.  But, banking on equaling and exceeding these feats that have happened only periodically to a few teams over a period of a couple of decades in a league that has a dozen or so teams competing every year is pretty long odds.  Lottery tickets might be a better option.  

 

These are a couple of good posts.  So what should be our ideal goal then?  I propose it's winning seasons and program stability.  Ohio University has looked like this with Frank Solich as the head coach:

 

2005  4-7

2006  9-5

2007  6-6

2008  4-8

2009  9-5

2010  8-5

2011  10-4

2012  9-4

2013  7-6

2014  6-6

2015  8-5

2016  6-3

 

As much as I despise OU, it's because of their stability and relative success that I do.  It's jealousy.  I think having a program stable like OU should be the goal, with getting local kids to buy into the program.  I don't believe we're going to drastically improve attendance, but there will be some who attend games to watch the local games who weren't there before.  Improve the culture through stability, improve the culture and game day experience to attract young alumni post-graduation.  I do feel that the Zips and Bowden ARE changing the culture.  The question is how fast, and how fast do they need to be?  

 

 

 

[Blue & Gold]

I'm loving where the program is right now.  

 

After the Ball State game I wrote something along the lines, "Another BIG game in 5 more days.  I love having big game... after big game... after big game...  Thank you Coach Bowden."

 

Okay, so we lost the big game at Buffalo.  We're not going to win every big game.  

 

But at least Bowden has taken us to the point where we're actually playing big games.  Most of our games have meaningful implications & it's been a lot of fun!  Over my 23-years of being an avid Zips fan, before Bowden came we rarely had big games.  With Bowden & Co. almost every week the past two seasons have been big games.

 

Toledo is another big game.

 

BUGS will be a huge game!

And Ohio will be an absolutely huge game!  Even if OU is a game ahead of us when we play, if we beat them we win the tiebreaker with them & go to Detroit for the the MACC.

 

Then another bowl game.

 

But I'm getting ahead of myself... First UT.

 

Get bowl eligible, Zips!

 

We're moving in the right direction.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Blue & Gold

[kreed5120]

58 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

 

These are a couple of good posts.  So what should be our ideal goal then?  I propose it's winning seasons and program stability.  Ohio University has looked like this with Frank Solich as the head coach:

 

2005  4-7

2006  9-5

2007  6-6

2008  4-8

2009  9-5

2010  8-5

2011  10-4

2012  9-4

2013  7-6

2014  6-6

2015  8-5

2016  6-3

 

As much as I despise OU, it's because of their stability and relative success that I do.  It's jealousy.  I think having a program stable like OU should be the goal, with getting local kids to buy into the program.  I don't believe we're going to drastically improve attendance, but there will be some who attend games to watch the local games who weren't there before.  Improve the culture through stability, improve the culture and game day experience to attract young alumni post-graduation.  I do feel that the Zips and Bowden ARE changing the culture.  The question is how fast, and how fast do they need to be?  

 

 

 

 

Pretty much what I was getting at. They need to make the game day experience fun. Something like OU where they are consistently .500 or better isn't bad, however, I'd like to have a spectacular season sprinkled in here and there.

[skip-zip]

3 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

 

These are a couple of good posts.  So what should be our ideal goal then?  I propose it's winning seasons and program stability.  Ohio University has looked like this with Frank Solich as the head coach:

 

2005  4-7

2006  9-5

2007  6-6

2008  4-8

2009  9-5

2010  8-5

2011  10-4

2012  9-4

2013  7-6

2014  6-6

2015  8-5

2016  6-3

 

As much as I despise OU, it's because of their stability and relative success that I do.  It's jealousy.  I think having a program stable like OU should be the goal, with getting local kids to buy into the program.  I don't believe we're going to drastically improve attendance, but there will be some who attend games to watch the local games who weren't there before.  Improve the culture through stability, improve the culture and game day experience to attract young alumni post-graduation.  I do feel that the Zips and Bowden ARE changing the culture.  The question is how fast, and how fast do they need to be?  

 

I think this could be an attainable goal, for sure.  And I like how you tied it to attendance, since that was what I think we were all getting at.  If we did as well as OU over the next 10 years, considering Akron's dense population compared to the Athens OH area, we'd surely get a boost.  It probably won't be what some people are expecting, but it would improve.  

 

I just have to openly object when I see people post on here who appear to be waiting for the 5 Consecutive MAC Championships to see if that changes people's attitudes about Akron football.  

[UA1987]

40 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

I think this could be an attainable goal, for sure.  And I like how you tied it to attendance, since that was what I think we were all getting at.  If we did as well as OU over the next 10 years, considering Akron's dense population compared to the Athens OH area, we'd surely get a boost.  It probably won't be what some people are expecting, but it would improve.  

 

I just have to openly object when I see people post on here who appear to be waiting for the 5 Consecutive MAC Championships to see if that changes people's attitudes about Akron football.  

I have to openly object to hyperbole

[skip-zip]

38 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

I have to openly object to hyperbole

 

That's fine.  Then how would you characterize the standard for those who always post that we should just seek to rise to the top of the MAC, and stay there consistently, as the solution to achieve sell-out attendance?

 

Do you think they mean 2 titles?  3 titles?  Let us know what you think.  I don't think that 5 was an exaggeration.  

[zippy5]

Let's get to one first and see? 

[skip-zip]

14 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Let's get to one first and see? 

 

I'd gladly take one myself right now. 

 

Save this exact response for when you see the more "ambitious" posters who talk about getting to the top of the MAC, and staying there.  And catch some of our earlier discussion in this thread about whether that's even attainable in the current MAC climate.  

[UA1987]

26 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

That's fine.  Then how would you characterize the standard for those who always post that we should just seek to rise to the top of the MAC, and stay there consistently, as the solution to achieve sell-out attendance?

 

Do you think they mean 2 titles?  3 titles?  Let us know what you think.  I don't think that 5 was an exaggeration.  

 

Here's what I'm hearing from you - it has not been proven that injecting enthusiasm/motivation and discipline into a football program will help a team perform better. 

 

Here's what I'm hearing from Louisville - (no your naïve... what are we in 6th grade or right out of high school?) Winning will not produce the attendance increase you think and Akron can never have big win seasons.

 

You could look at any team and ascertain that winning correlates to a jump in attendance. The Ohio stats (not Ohio State Skippy) prove that, but it makes me puke that this team is used as an aspiring example. If Akron can put together a defense and offense in the same season then hello big season or two. This is what we need to put butts in the seats and start rolling on recruiting, which will cultivate more winning. Akron has a core group of loyal fans, but we see them now at the games and it is not enough for many, including the AD. Unfortunately most fans nowadays are fair weather fans (blame it on free agency in the pro's). To get the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd into the Info you have avoid 1-11 seasons, get into the top 25 from time to time. Watching to see if Terry will get us there is part of the fun for me.                             

Edited November 1, 2016 by UA1987