2017 QB recruits

[K92]

18 minutes ago, LZIp said:

And for the people crapping on Chapman, enough. No he did not live up to hype, No he is not the present or future. Outside of the 1st half against Kent, I think he showed to be a formidable back up. I mean..we went 2-1 with a win over our arch rival at their place, a win over a bowl team(how many other times has a win over a bowl team happened under Bowden??), and lost to one of the only 2 undefeated teams in the country left. I'm not acting like he is great, but some of you are bitching just to bitch. He is not the future and I do not expect him on the field so I'm not going to cry about the imperfections.

 

Kent won 3 games.

 

The Miami we beat was not a "bowl team" when we beat them.  We put them at 0-6 then they went on a 6 win streak.  They too, beat a terrible Kent team and they were also able to beat horrible Buffalo and miserable BG which the Zips could not muster.

 

Chapman's record is nothing to crow about.

[K92]

9 minutes ago, LZIp said:

As I said, I don't see what there is to complain about when Chapman went 2-1 as a starter with the loss coming to WMU. If you think the redshirt should have been burned for the last game of the season against the division champs, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think the redshirt should have been burned at Kent.

[LZIp]

7 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

We need a QB in this recruiting class.  

Both Woody & TC5 will be seniors next year.  

Gotta have more depth than we had this year.  

Lack of QB depth is what derailed our season.

Wish we had gone harder after Stow native & Buffalo commit Kyle Vantrease.

Ugh, we should not be losing out on supposedly talented, local recruits to freaking Buffalo.

[72 Roo]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

And for the people crapping on Chapman, enough. No he did not live up to hype, No he is not the present or future. Outside of the 1st half against Kent, I think he showed to be a formidable back up. I mean..we went 2-1 with a win over our arch rival at their place, a win over a bowl team(how many other times has a win over a bowl team happened under Bowden??), and lost to one of the only 2 undefeated teams in the country left. I'm not acting like he is great, but some of you are bitching just to bitch. He is not the future and I do not expect him on the field so I'm not going to cry about the imperfections.

 

I agree with LZip on this one. This young man did his best when called upon and it didn't work out. Let's get off his back and focus the discussion more on what the coaching staff is doing to strengthen a potential weakness. We have no reason to get complacent in the QB area. This year was a very bitter pill to swallow based on all the great things we thought this team had going for it as the season began. 

[Blue & Gold]

9 hours ago, LZIp said:

Ugh, we should not be losing out on supposedly talented, local recruits to freaking Buffalo.

Amen, and amen.

[Balsy]

10 hours ago, K92 said:

Kent won 3 games.

 

The Miami we beat was not a "bowl team" when we beat them.  We put them at 0-6 then they went on a 6 win streak.  They too, beat a terrible Kent team and they were also able to beat horrible Buffalo and miserable BG which the Zips could not muster.

 

Chapman's record is nothing to crow about.

 

Complaining for the sake of complaining is what this is.  The fact of the matter is Miami IS a Bowl team, and we beat them, even with our hobbled team.

 

10 hours ago, K92 said:

I think the redshirt should have been burned at Kent.

 

Dumb idea.  That may be a thing that the OSUs of the world are good at doing, but not Akron.  We need to give these young QBs a chance to learn before we throw them out there.  Chapman likely did just as good as Kato could have done in those same games, so I don't know what you're crying over.  Your dislike of Tra'von Chapman is unnecessary.

 

I hope Kato can play, and I'm hoping he will take the opportunity presented him to challenge Woodson.

[kreed5120]

I will give it to Chapman he played well against Miami, but in his other 6 games where he attempted at least 1 pass, he completed a meager 44% of his passes and had 2 TDs to 5 interceptions. I'm not going to put Akron's failure this season on his shoulders, however, I also don't feel confident in his ability to be our backup QB.

Edited December 15, 2016 by kreed5120

[skip-zip]

11 hours ago, LZIp said:

And for the people crapping on Chapman, enough.

 

As we look back at the season, having backup like Chapman come in and deliver the wins against Miami and Kent should make us thankful.  

 

Is he the Next Coming? No

Do we still see him as a potential full time starter?  Definitely Not.

 

I agree with all of that, but I'm still grateful that he had the ability to deliver a couple of wins for us when we needed him.  

[K92]

1 hour ago, Balsy said:

 

Complaining for the sake of complaining is what this is.  The fact of the matter is Miami IS a Bowl team, and we beat them, even with our hobbled team.

 

 

Dumb idea.  That may be a thing that the OSUs of the world are good at doing, but not Akron.  We need to give these young QBs a chance to learn before we throw them out there.  Chapman likely did just as good as Kato could have done in those same games, so I don't know what you're crying over.  Your dislike of Tra'von Chapman is unnecessary.

 

I hope Kato can play, and I'm hoping he will take the opportunity presented him to challenge Woodson.

I love how you put so much stock in Miami being a bowl team.  They are 6-6.  They are a bowl team because any program with a pulse gets to go to a bowl.  I will give them credit, though.  They have things going in the right direction when it looked pretty dismal for their current staff.  I am not complaining for the sake of complaining.  I am complaining while playing armchair quarterback because the Zips competed in the absolutely putrid MAC East and are sitting home instead of going to a bowl.  That means that the Zips do not have a pulse.  If you are not upset about that and make excuses for the program, great.  Enjoy your outstanding participation trophy.

 

If Kato is the real deal, and many think he is, he should play.  If you're "high on" the kid, get him in there.  Football can be highly unpredictable.  Woodson may never see the field again for any number of reasons.  Kato may be forced into being the man next year with absolutely no experience, then people will be moaning about what a shame it was that he didn't get some game time experience in '16.  This whole concept of bringing quarterbacks along slowly is complete bunk.  Redshirt freshmen quarterbacks win Heisman Trophies.

 

I have no dislike of Tra'von Chapman whatsoever.  After being much maligned, I was happy for the kid when he redeemed himself in the 2nd half of the Kent game.  I hope that he has a wonderful and productive life.  I also have two eyes and they told me that a 3rd team WR who sat the bench for pretty much the whole of 2016 was a better option at QB.

[Balsy]

1 hour ago, K92 said:

I love how you put so much stock in Miami being a bowl team. 

 

I don't, but you dismiss it so easily.  They started 0-6 and won six games to go to a bowl game and were in contention for the MAC East Champion.  To dismiss it is just annoying.

 

1 hour ago, K92 said:

That means that the Zips do not have a pulse.  If you are not upset about that and make excuses for the program, great.  Enjoy your outstanding participation trophy.

 

I'm not making excuses for anyone.  I can see the reality of the situation.  Injuries = bad season.  Miami isn't as bad (by MAC standards) as you're pretending them to be, and you're acting as if teams can't get better.  

 

1 hour ago, K92 said:

If Kato is the real deal, and many think he is, he should play.  If you're "high on" the kid, get him in there. 

 

That's wishful thinking, and I don't agree at all.  No one knows if he's the "real deal" and someone who is stands a better chance learning than they do being thrown in there to play immediately.  You can be "high on" someone and still have someone with a lot of experience who's currently better for your team in the system (Woodson).

 

1 hour ago, K92 said:

Kato may be forced into being the man next year with absolutely no experience, then people will be moaning about what a shame it was that he didn't get some game time experience in '16.  This whole concept of bringing quarterbacks along slowly is complete bunk.  Redshirt freshmen quarterbacks win Heisman Trophies.

 

Theres been two?  So that's hardly an argument.  For every QB who did well as a freshman starting, theres 1000 who failed miserably.  Woodson is testament to that.  Crashed and burned as a Freshman and steadily improved.  

 

1 hour ago, K92 said:

I have no dislike of Tra'von Chapman whatsoever.  After being much maligned, I was happy for the kid when he redeemed himself in the 2nd half of the Kent game.  I hope that he has a wonderful and productive life.  I also have two eyes and they told me that a 3rd team WR who sat the bench for pretty much the whole of 2016 was a better option at QB.

 

I would say that's a dislike of Tra'von Chapman as a QB.  You didn't know that a 3rd team WR who was sitting was "better" (which I would contest, and is debatable), and were against him from the getgo starting in the Kent game, even after he won it.  

[K92]

1 hour ago, Balsy said:

For every QB who did well as a freshman starting, theres 1000 who failed miserably.

You couldn't be more wrong.

This article mentions 20 true freshman quarterbacks that had great seasons

I will be waiting for your list of 20,000 that failed miserably.

[ComettoZip]

I think the game has changed and QB's are succeeding younger because of the RRPO (Read, Run, Pass, Option) they are better athletes & keep defenses honest & disciplined & they can succeed with their legs & expose the defense when they commit to stop the run with easy short passes to athletes that can make plays but unless we change something we need a QB with a strong arm & can read defenses & coverages because we love to go vertical.  IMO think Chapman could have been successful in a RRPO offense, I know it was high school but he was great at it at Kent, I can't figure out why we didn't change the offense for Chapman, he is bad at reading defenses & throwing vertical.  We didn't help his cause or the teams.

[skip-zip]

52 minutes ago, ComettoZip said:

I can't figure out why we didn't change the offense for Chapman, he is bad at reading defenses & throwing vertical.  We didn't help his cause or the teams.

 

They've said that they changed play calls because he was in there, but changing your offense mid-season is pretty difficult.  And I agree that he had difficulty throwing passes downfield, but boy did he ever throw one of the best long passes of the season to JoJo to win the game at Kent.  And I will admit that I was screaming about his putrid play in the first half of that game.

 

I'll say this again.  I'll be pissed if we were saving a year of eligibility for Kato by not playing him those last 3 games.  MAC East title on the line.  Bowl bid on the line.  This program needs wins and titles and bowl appearances much more than anything that can possibly be gained to holding out a guy for the future.  Could this tell us that maybe he's simply not good enough to be that man right now?

[ComettoZip]

15 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

They've said that they changed play calls because he was in there, but changing your offense mid-season is pretty difficult.  And I agree that he had difficulty throwing passes downfield, but boy did he ever throw one of the best long passes of the season to JoJo to win the game at Kent.  And I will admit that I was screaming about his putrid play in the first half of that game.

 

I'll say this again.  I'll be pissed if we were saving a year of eligibility for Kato by not playing him those last 3 games.  MAC East title on the line.  Bowl bid on the line.  This program needs wins and titles and bowl appearances much more than anything that can possibly be gained to holding out a guy for the future.  Could this tell us that maybe he's simply not good enough to be that man right now?

 

We changed the offense by using the read run part because of his legs but didn't in the read pass option, we kept the vertical game & he threw in to double coverage & under threw a lot of balls

 

Changing the offense isn't that difficult, they probably have a couple hundred plays on that play card because every week you should have a different game plan trying to expose the weakness in that weeks opponent, also it doesn't change overnight but you add a little every week

 

It's always been my opinion you need to use as many packages as you can, otherwise the opponent practices all week on one or two packages & are good at reading them & stopping you, if you have 10 packages you use they have to practice them all & they won't be good at any of them, it makes it difficult, plus as an OC it helps finding the weakness in the defense if something isn't working go to the next package

[zippy5]

2 hours ago, K92 said:

You couldn't be more wrong.

This article mentions 20 true freshman quarterbacks that had great seasons

I will be waiting for your list of 20,000 that failed miserably.

How many of those are from mid-majors? Heck how many of them are from outside of the top 10 or so blue blood schools? There are about 0 going to schools not named Bama, OSU, Tennessee, USC, Florida, etc that are good enough to step right in and succeed

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, ComettoZip said:

Changing the offense isn't that difficult, they probably have a couple hundred plays on that play card because every week you should have a different game plan trying to expose the weakness in that weeks opponent, also it doesn't change overnight but you add a little every week

This.

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, ComettoZip said:

it doesn't change overnight but you add a little every week

 

At the time, Woodson was likely coming back soon, which is a discussion for an entirely different thread.  

[Balsy]

4 hours ago, K92 said:

You couldn't be more wrong.

This article mentions 20 true freshman quarterbacks that had great seasons

I will be waiting for your list of 20,000 that failed miserably.

 

 

That's cherry-picking if I've ever seen it.    Ironically they actually do write articles about this on the internet.  And here is a wonderful article from ESPN, about how it's hard to start True Freshman QBs in college.  

 

From the ESPN Article:

 

"Some hit it big, but most don’t. According to ESPN Stats and Information, in the past five seasons only 13 true freshman quarterbacks at Power 5 programs ranked in the top 100 nationally in passing efficiency at the end of their debut season. Only three -- UCLA’s Josh Rosen (2015), Miami’s Brad Kaaya (2014) and Cal’s Jared Goff (2013) -- threw for 3,000 yards as true freshmen....

 

So in the top 100 QBs from five consective years, only 13 true freshman were considered in those at power 5 conferences.  That's 13/500.  That's 2.6%.  And I'd be willing to wager that True freshman at Power 5 conferences stand a BETTER chance of shooting the lights out as redshirt freshman than at a Group of 5 team.  

 

That's 38 non-true freshman QBs to 1 true freshman QB.  So maybe I was a little off on the 1000 to one, but dead on in my point.

 

What's the chance that Akron is going to have the True Freshman QB that is going to shoot out the lights...and I thought I was the optimistic one.

 

To be completely honest, I don't feel dedicated enough at this point to compile a better list, because I don't really care to prove you wrong that much.

[K92]

I never said that Kato should have played because he was poised to "shoot out the lights".  I simply said if a freshman qb has the ability and the team has the need, he should play.  Burn the redshirt.  The Zips definitely had the need.  The other half of the equation is in question.

 

You are the one who made the ridiculous comment about a 1000:1 ratio.  I came up with 20 success stories.  Give me the 20,000 Hindenburgs.  You can't.  You can't even come up with a list of 200 Hindenburgs.  It was a dumb statement and you were called on it.  Your rebuttal was laughable, comparing successful freshmen to the entire sample size.  How many freshmen failures were there?  That is what we are debating.  The freshman success rate.  We aren't debating how few successful freshmen there are.  A 5th grader knows that.

 

Bottom line is this.  You are a Bowden supporter and you are content with the current situation.  I am not.  Bowden has another year (at least) to prove his worth.  Time will tell.  

 

We are never going to agree on much of anything, I'm afraid.  That's ok by me.  I respect your opinion and like Coach Holtz says, I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

 

The only thing we probably have in common is that we both said we were leaving the forum, but yet here we are.  Obviously neither one of us can leave it behind.  That's love for the Zips and that's a good thing.

 

Merry Christmas, Balsy.

[ZachTheZip]

 

[K92]

Zach, Ramart is a hs kid, not juco, right?

[ZachTheZip]

Pretty sure. Thought I'd post it here since there has been so much discussion about needing to add QBs

[kreed5120]

Looks like we are his 4th offer.

 

http://247sports.com/Player/Alex-Ramart-88311

[Balsy]

3 hours ago, K92 said:

You are the one who made the ridiculous comment about a 1000:1 ratio.  I came up with 20 success stories.  Give me the 20,000 Hindenburgs.  You can't.  You can't even come up with a list of 200 Hindenburgs.  It was a dumb statement and you were called on it.  

 

An obvious hyperbole.  It's pretty clear I meant (and you'd have to be deliberately stubborn to suggest I was being literal).  Well I did outline how logically there is at least 200 every year.  Most teams have one freshman on their team, let alone those that have two, some even three (walk ons etc).  

 

The POINT is, there are far MORE freshman that aren't that good right out of the bag and do need to learn.  MOST QBs can't just step out onto the field and play from day one.  That's a fact, that's inconvenient for your narrative and you're ignoring it.  Believing we should waste a year of Kato's eligibility on the slim chance he'd be productive, for half a season is dumb IMHO.

 

3 hours ago, K92 said:

The only thing we probably have in common is that we both said we were leaving the forum, but yet here we are.  Obviously neither one of us can leave it behind.  That's love for the Zips and that's a good thing.

 

Merry Christmas, Balsy.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

Happy Saturnalia to you as well Keener.

[Blue & Gold]

Maybe a mod can change the title of this thread to 2017 QB recruits?

 

 

Nick Johns, JUCO, 6-4, 230