What's The Point?

[GP1]

So much bean counting, so little reasoning. 

 

Simple question. What is the reason for college athletics?  I would be interested in responses. 

[Spin]

IMHO...

 

properly done...

 

a marketing tool for the university. P5 schools take the best advantage of that and reap the rewards. 

 

a recreational opportunity for students and alumni. Which done properly results in contributions based on what I have read from several posters. And sponsorships. We all know alumni who take a lot of pride in the school’s athletic accomplishments.

 

a teaching program for future professionals, also giving them a nice resume builder.

 

 

 

 

[GP1]

2 hours ago, Spin said:

IMHO...

 

properly done...

 

a marketing tool for the university. P5 schools take the best advantage of that and reap the rewards. 

 

a recreational opportunity for students and alumni. Which done properly results in contributions based on what I have read from several posters. And sponsorships. We all know alumni who take a lot of pride in the school’s athletic accomplishments.

 

a teaching program for future professionals, also giving them a nice resume builder.

 

 

 

 

I notice it takes you until the end to almost mention the players. Your first two are money centered. That's how it is now. What should we really be about?

[John Ward]

3 hours ago, GP1 said:

I notice it takes you until the end to almost mention the players. Your first two are money centered. That's how it is now. What should we really be about?

Im laughing because this is the same thing he said on a different thread. Spin is all about the MONEY !!! Don’t worry about the players.C’mon we are better than this.

[GP1]

11 minutes ago, John Ward said:

Im laughing because this is the same thing he said on a different thread. Spin is all about the MONEY !!! Don’t worry about the players.C’mon we are better than this.

If the point is money, every school that loses money should get out. I think that would leave 15 teams. 

 

My point is, there is more value than the money. Why can't schools like ours make those points? Why can't we get together and promote the unseen value of college athletics?

 

What is everyone else's point?

[Spin]

46 minutes ago, John Ward said:

Im laughing because this is the same thing he said on a different thread. Spin is all about the MONEY !!! Don’t worry about the players.C’mon we are better than this.

 

The fact that that's all you got from my response tells me that's all YOU guys care about.

 

Why don't you two answer the simple question. 

[Spin]

4 hours ago, GP1 said:

I notice it takes you until the end to almost mention the players. Your first two are money centered. That's how it is now. What should we really be about?

 

A previous poster recently complained about so much spent on so few. I fully understand the value to the student athletes. I played football in high school and it helped me more in my career than any of the classes I took. The knowledge is important, but doesn't get you anywhere without the goal setting, work ethic, teamwork, and putting it all out there for someone else. To name a few hard lessons learned. I wouldn't trade it for all the books in the library.

 

The athletic department is under attack by its so called "fans". I answer them. You can read whatever you want by the order I put my responses in, it's really not that complicated.

[NWAkron]

This thread in inane.  Some of you are serious trolls.  You set up threads and then attack those who post.  You don't add anything productive to the conversation.

[GP1]

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

This thread in inane.  Some of you are serious trolls.  You set up threads and then attack those who post.  You don't add anything productive to the conversation.

What is the point of college athletics?

[Zipmeister]

I don't know if it's the point, but college athletics keeps some youngsters busy and prevents or delays their life of crime.

[GP1]

50 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

I don't know if it's the point, but college athletics keeps some youngsters busy and prevents or delays their life of crime.

There are other ways to keep people busy that don't require college athletics. Two years of mandatory public service could do the same thing. Then they could start their life of crime. You seem to be a lot closer than the penny counters though. 

 

Seriously, student athletes are much more law abiding than the general student body. 

[clarkwgriswold]

The point of college athletics depends in large part upon the institution.  For the P5 schools, it's all about money and prestige.  For schools like Wooster and Kenyon, it's about the further development of the person playing.  The problem is that the schools in the middle like those in the MAC are stuck in the infernal cycle of striking the balance between those two extreme goals and as a result often fail at both.

[Zipmeister]

42 minutes ago, GP1 said:

There are other ways to keep people busy that don't require college athletics. Two years of mandatory public service could do the same thing. Then they could start their life of crime. You seem to be a lot closer than the penny counters though. 

 

Seriously, student athletes are much more law abiding than the general student body. 

 

That's scary. Here is my all football criminal list (restricted to players who made the pros and did jail time).

Offense

Wide receiver: Irving Fryar

Wide receiver: Plaxico Burress

Tight end: Aaron Hernandez

Running back: Lawrence Phillips

Running back: Maurice Clarett

Quarterback: Art Schlichter

Right tackle: Kevin Allen

Left Guard: Nate Newton

Honorary captain: O.J. Simpson

 

Dishonorable mention

Rae Carruth

Cecil Collins

Michael Floyd

Travis Henry

Sam Hurd

Mark Ingram

Tommy Kane

Ryan Leaf

Jamal Lewis

Derek Loville

Kevin Mack

Bam Morris

Donté Stallworth

Michael Vick

Stanley Wilson

 

Defense

Safety: Darren Sharper

Cornerback: Will Allen

Cornerback: Dwayne Goodrich

Linebacker: Thomas Henderson

Linebacker: Ray Lewis

Linebacker: Nate Webster

Tackle: Josh Brent

Tackle: Tank Johnson

End: Leonard Little

End: Dexter Manley

 

Dishonorable mention

Darryl Henley

Jimmy Hitchcock

Johnny Jolly

Saleem Rasheed

Robert Rozier

Anthony Smith

C. J. Spillman

Eric Naposki

Keith Wright

 

Special teams

Punter: Joe Prokop

Kicker: Russell Erxleben

Kick returner: Dave Meggett

Kick returner: Mercury Morris

[GP1]

52 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

For the P5 schools, it's all about money and prestige.  The problem is that the schools in the middle like those in the MAC are stuck in the infernal cycle of striking the balance between those two extreme goals and as a result often fail at both.

With the exception of around 20 P5 programs, they are failing according to your definition. Almost all lose money. Only about 5-6 schools have the capability of winning a national championship. Everyone else is in the same cycle we are all in. 

 

I have season tickets to a P5 school. They produce an excellent product and are probably not one of the schools making money, but it's hard to tell because private school finances are not completely reported. My point is, they see something else. The game day experience is no different whether they are playing Villanova or Clemson. They see a point to all of it other than the money, prestige and keeping people out of prison. 

 

Seriously, what do you folks want the point to be?

[footballzip]

 University identity of  pride, tradition, and popularity comes from football and basketball programs. When you mention Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame,  Michigan, Oklahoma,  I think football programs not there academic programs. Same with the big time basketball programs. Kentucky, North Carolina, Villanova, Duke, Georgetown etc. Successful programs brings recognition, name identity, and of course money from packed 100K fan stadiums, tv coverage, and fan gear. Kids want to come to these schools for this reason also along with good academic programs. MAC schools not as much being a mid-major conference. Ivy league schools is the only conference that is known primarily for academic prestige.

Edited July 26, 2020 by footballzip

[GP1]

24 minutes ago, footballzip said:

 University identity of  pride, tradition, and popularity comes from football and basketball programs. When you mention Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, Notre Dame,  Michigan, Oklahoma,  I think football programs not there academic programs.

Do you think the students, alumni and surrounding communities think the same as you? Michigan and Notre Dame are top notch academic institutions. I don't think those close to the schools only see the sports. I also don't think they spend much time thinking about what others think of them. 

 

If the point of G5 programs is to be like P5 schools, close the doors because that is never going to happen. What do we want to be?

[Spin]

22 hours ago, Spin said:

 

The fact that that's all you got from my response tells me that's all YOU guys care about.

 

Why don't you two answer the simple question. 

 

Still waiting...

 

It's easy to criticize someone else's response when you don't put yourself out there to be criticized. I learned a lot about you two.

[kreed5120]

Below are some of the objectives of college athletics.

 

- Marketing tool for the university

- Enhances the "college experience"

- Way to keep alumni engaged with the university

- Helps mold athletes into leaders

- In the case of the elite 20 or so P5 schools, a way to print money for the school

[GP1]

32 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

- Enhances the "college experience"

- Way to keep alumni engaged with the university

- Helps mold athletes into leaders

What if this is all there was for G5 schools with adding in giving the surrounding community something fun to do?

[kreed5120]

12 minutes ago, GP1 said:

What if this is all there was for G5 schools with adding in giving the surrounding community something fun to do?

Personally for me it's not a issue that the athletic runs in the red as I feel it does offer some benefits that are hard to monetize. What's concerning to me is how large that deficit has grown. It would be much easier to defend sports at Akron if it was running at a $10 million deficit instead of a $27 million or whatever it is currently.

[Ham]

12 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Personally for me it's not a issue that the athletic runs in the red as I feel it does offer some benefits that are hard to monetize. What's concerning to me is how large that deficit has grown. It would be much easier to defend sports at Akron if it was running at a $10 million deficit instead of a $27 million or whatever it is currently.

Bingo.  Athletics is a hard sell when the list of our highest paid government employees is topped by our coaches. 

[footballzip]

Of course the academics are important. My point is when you mention those Universities, personally I think football/basketball first, regarding the schools reputation.

[GP1]

12 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Personally for me it's not a issue that the athletic runs in the red as I feel it does offer some benefits that are hard to monetize. What's concerning to me is how large that deficit has grown. It would be much easier to defend sports at Akron if it was running at a $10 million deficit instead of a $27 million or whatever it is currently.

I am concerned about the deficit as well. In addition, I am concerned about the revenue stream into Athletic Departments across G5 schools. I despise the Universities are covering the mismanagement of their schools with student fees.

 

In my opinion, the elephant in the room is not in the Athletic Department. I am like you kreed, I have no problem with a deficit in the Athletic Department as long as it is serving a greater purpose and being run reasonably within a public university. Do they need to make changes?  Yes, but with schools like Akron, not on their own or it will have catastrophic consequences for the Athletic Department and University and schools like ours. The elephant in the room is the rapid decline in enrollment. This is not the fault of the Athletic Department. A lot of things can cause this decline. One may be the endless drip, drip, drip of bad publicity from the University. I don't know much about the current President, but he seems to be aloof about the PR problem and the relationship of it to the funding of the overall University. Someone needs to dump a bucket of cold water over his head to wake him up. The enrollment problem needs fixed before any crippling cuts are made to athletics. Further, someone needs to stand up publicly for the Athletic Department and feature many of the great things it does for the kids, what the kids do for the University and what those kids' efforts around the community do for NE Ohio. If the Athletic Director could take a break from bean counting for a while, maybe he could develop a PR campaign to assist in this effort.

[GP1]

20 minutes ago, Ham said:

Bingo.  Athletics is a hard sell when the list of our highest paid government employees is topped by our coaches. 

How much trouble do they have selling football in the SEC?

[Ham]

5 hours ago, GP1 said:

How much trouble do they have selling football in the SEC?

I should have said "funding" athletics.  We all recognize that there are a few institutions that are self funded.