Games 5, 6 & 7- The Paradise Jam

[kreed5120]

29 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

Not sure this is fair. I thought it was a borderline call, but even if it was a bad foul, I certainly hope we aren't benching a player for one mistake. Not going to see growth that way. 

 

He literally was falling backwards into Townsend. It was a textbook foul. Nothing borderline about it. He needed to go straight up for the rebound.

 

The better you are, the longer the leash you have. Groce hasn't seen enough in practice from him to warrant extended play. He gives him a chance and he gifts Yale 2 points at the end of the half. Killing the momentem Akron had going into half. That's not to say he won't get minutes again, but when he does get them he has to show he deserves more. Eric Mahaffey made a costly turnover late in the game, but he was left in the game. That's because he's built up the goodwill therefore has a longer leash than the unproven guy who is getting outplayed in practice by MMK.

 

Edit: Personally, I like the tone it sets. It shows players that minutes are earned, not given. Perhaps it gets players to dig deeper to up the effort an extra 5%-10%.

Edited 3 hours ago by kreed5120

[Zippy87]

17 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

He literally was falling backwards into Townsend. It was a textbook foul. Nothing borderline about it. He needed to go straight up for the rebound.

 

 

 

It was close enough that they took a look at the monitor to make sure Townsend didn't hook him, because Yale was absolutely doing that last night. 

 

18 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Groce hasn't seen enough in practice from him to warrant extended play.

 

We have no idea what he looks like in practice.

 

18 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

He gives him a chance and he gifts Yale 2 points at the end of the half. Killing the momentem Akron had going into half.

 

It was literally one play. 

[ZippyforPresident]

5 hours ago, Illini Zip said:

Besides Barre, I’m hoping to see Oggie take a big step forward on the defensive end this year. His size and athleticism could have been a help to us if he was more experienced. 

I have had this thought as well. Should the Zips make it to selection Sunday, I think they are going to need Oggie and Barre to continue to progress throughout the season in order to possibly/hopefully make it to the second weekend of the tournament. I do remember thinking Oggie did well defending Townsend the few times they matched up. If, by tournament time, those dudes progress in the system like some of the upperclassmen, the Zippies could have a decent shot at really being a cinderella this season. I think the Bulldogs and Boilermakers gave Akron a good idea of where they are at currently.

[kreed5120]

42 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

It was close enough that they took a look at the monitor to make sure Townsend didn't hook him, because Yale was absolutely doing that last night. 

 

 

We have no idea what he looks like in practice.

 

 

It was literally one play. 

 

And video evidence showed no hook and hold and that he did fall back into him. It validated the call on the floor. If anything that weakens you argument as you can't even say it was a call the refs missed. Besides the call would have needed to be reviewed regardless because they had to know if the foul occurred before the buzzer and if so how much time to leave on the clock.

 

Groce said in the post game interview after game 1 that MMK earned his minutes in practice when asked if we will see Barre or Briscoe this year. He said both those guys will need to work for their minutes.

 

Once again when you're the 11th man in the rotation you're going to have a short leash in a tightly contested game. If this was Evansville and we were up 20+ he may have let him play through mistakes. We literally trailed for all but maybe 1-2 minutes that game. If anything he should have been given more run time against Iona or Evansville to shake off the rust so he's more prepared when we might need him.

 

Edit: Groce really wanted that game. He pretty much treated it like a MAC tournament game. He shorted his rotation to really 8 man (Ognjen only got 7 minutes) and Tavari, Evan, and Scott all played 32+ minutes. He played the players he had the most trust in what he treated as a must win game. That's what coaches do. 

Edited 2 hours ago by kreed5120

[ZippyforPresident]

29 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

And video evidence showed no hook and hold and that he did fall back into him. It validated the call on the floor.

 

Groce said in the post game interview after game 1 that MMK earned his minutes in practice when asked if we will see Barre or Briscoe this year. He said both those guys will need to work for their minutes.

 

Once again when you're the 11th man in the rotation you're going to have a short leash in a tightly contested game. If this was Evansville and we were up 20+ he may have let him play through mistakes. We literally trailed for all but maybe 1-2 minutes that game. If anything he should have been given more run time against Iona or Evansville to shake off the rust so he's more prepared when we might need him.

Not that it really matters, and it was very easy to miss in real time, but there really was a hook and hold. It was only visible from one specific replay angle. It was a very savvy veteran move against a less experienced guy.

Anyway, it wouldn't have made any difference, as it had nothing to do with the review or outcome of the game lol.

My apologies for being persnickety.

[Illini Zip]

15 minutes ago, ZippyforPresident said:

Not that it really matters, and it was very easy to miss in real time, but there really was a hook and hold. It was only visible from one specific replay angle. It was a very savvy veteran move against a less experienced guy.

Anyway, it wouldn't have made any difference, as it had nothing to do with the review or outcome of the game lol.

My apologies for being persnickety.

You said persnickety. 😀

[Zippy87]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

 

And video evidence showed no hook and hold and that he did fall back into him. It validated the call on the floor. If anything that weakens you argument as you can't even say it was a call the refs missed.

 

I said it was a borderline call, not the incorrect call. 

 

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

Groce really wanted that game. He pretty much treated it like a MAC tournament game. He shorted his rotation to really 8 man (Ognjen only got 7 minutes) and Tavari, Evan, and Scott all played 32+ minutes. He played the players he had the most trust in what he treated as a must win game. That's what coaches do. 

 

Absolutely, and Coach Groce is one of the best there is. MMK at 5 will work against 95% of the teams we play this year, because he is a smart player with a high motor, and that can overcome some of his lack of size at that spot. But not against teams like Yale, Purdue, and anyone we would likely see in the NCAA Tournament. If he doesn't trust Barre yet, I trust he isn't showing something in practice that he wants to see. But I'm holding out hope that whatever it is will get worked through over the next few months so that Barre is at least a 8-10 minutes contributor off the bench by March, because we will need him to pull off out ultimate goal of winning a tournament game IMO. 

[kreed5120]

6 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

I said it was a borderline call, not the incorrect call. 

 

 

Absolutely, and Coach Groce is one of the best there is. MMK at 5 will work against 95% of the teams we play this year, because he is a smart player with a high motor, and that can overcome some of his lack of size at that spot. But not against teams like Yale, Purdue, and anyone we would likely see in the NCAA Tournament. If he doesn't trust Barre yet, I trust he isn't showing something in practice that he wants to see. But I'm holding out hope that whatever it is will get worked through over the next few months so that Barre is at least a 8-10 minutes contributor off the bench by March, because we will need him to pull off out ultimate goal of winning a tournament game IMO. 

I don't disagree with you that the team would be better is Barre was able to contribute quality minutes. I'm more saying it will be better to ramp him up to that during games we have well in hand to build up that level of trust. 

[clarkwgriswold]

I'm hoping that Barre's ability to gain Groce's trust was adversely impacted by his injury in the pre-season and that the confidence and minutes will grow as the season progresses.  He played 11.5 minutes a game at Duquesne last year.  Here's hoping  there's some of that in store here.