Zipped Up

The first year members were UC, Butler, Western Reserve and Ohio. In 1948 the above four members were joined by Western Michigan and Miami. Kent joins in 1951 and BG and Toledo in 1952 which marks the year that the six oldest members have been in the league. If we are counting total wins, that is the first year that would be most logical. Here are the win totals for those six between 1952 - 1961. Miami 38 Ohio 36 BG 32 Kent 31 Kent was a decent program until about 1961. WMU 16 UT 15 So taking into account those years with all the same six, total wins are: Toledo 443 Miami 431 BG 411 WMU 380 Ohio 360 Kent 257 Kent jumps ahead of Northern Illinois by 12 wins but NIU has been in the league 35 less years overall. If one counts inclusive of the 1947-51 years the Miami leads the conference in all time wins with 445 to Toledo 443. Miami has the most MAC championships 17, BG and Toledo tied at 12, CMU 7, NIU 6, OU 5, Ball St 4, Western 2, EMU, Kent, Buffalo and Akron 1 each.

No, you have the much better handle on this. Mango is correct that a 3 star should have confidence in themselves and the coach to be successful. But since the establishment of the Portal, a 3 star (even at Akron) is going to have zero chance to win a job true freshmen year. There used to be a slight chance in the days when a school graduated a kid who had just held the job for two or three years and the freshmen could compete right away with another freshmen or RS freshmen and an upperclassmen who was really a long shot, those days are gone. As soon as a senior graduates, the staff has probably recruited a kid from the Portal the year before or are going looking for one immediately. As you said, the staff is overcommitted to every transfer they bring in. HS kids are still told “we really like you but you’re going to have to compete”, as opposed to the conversation with portal kids “ we liked you out of HS and now that you have a couple years with a program we are going to give you every opportunity to win this job as we like our QB room but JR Jonnie Doe is a true backup and our freshmen and RS freshmen have no experience”. Mango is also correct that a 3 star shouldn’t go D3 because there is little chance he is moving up, but the more likely route now for a 3 star out of HS would be to consider FCS (if you are a good student) or D2 or JUCO (if you are academically challenged ) and you will have a better chance to move up some day to a G5. I think I’m going to look at every MAC school since 2019 or ‘20 and see how many 2 or 3 star HS QBs ended up starting for a season, what year it was, how many stayed the duration and how many even played a down in their first two years before transferring. Off the top of my head, I believe Gabbert and Finn started as freshmen or RS and stayed there at least three years. Gabbert may be the only one to stay the duration. And 98% of every 2 or 3 star on every MAC team eventually had to look elsewhere for a shot. Some teams during this time frame like BG and Akron have played transfers exclusively.

Respectfully disagree. There is almost zero chance of a freshmen or RS freshmen staying if they don’t start. If they haven’t cracked the lineup then the staff is going right to the portal for a quick fix. The portal has ruined recruiting for HS QBs who aren’t 4 or 5 stars but could have been developed at the G5 level or even lower P4 programs.

I think LSU was #6 in 1986 when Miami beat them. This ND team at #5 was a joke.

Iowa’s QB was arguably the worst QB in FBS and he was playing behind a Big10 line. Labas passed on Akron for Ball St initially before decommitting and signing with Iowa when they were empty handed during the COVID freeze on recruiting. He’s not coming to Akron unless it’s his last and only D1 offer.

Tony Georges is on scholarship. Nate Williams, Ronan Chambers and Georges all graduate in spring and will most likely hit the Portal for their last year of eligibility.

Comparing prior and current staff records was not exactly apples to apples comparison. Although I’m not a fan of Arth, Covid screwed up 2020 and skewed how he handled 2021 personnel. So let’s throw out ‘20 and compare two years v two years. Arth (and staff) 2-22 JoMo 4-20. Arth got the two wins and lost 2 of the last 4 to Ball St and Western on last minute plays. Progress was coming (albeit slowly). I would also argue the 2021 schedule was a hell of a lot tougher (both OOC and within the MAC) than this year. So only two wins, but one vs a Bryant team that made the FCS playoffs ( or maybe just missed) and BG on the road, while not a very good team, they were coming off a win vs Minnesota just a couple weeks earlier. Last year JoMo needed OT to beat an average FCS team and the worst NIU in 20 years and this year needed two miracles to beat the worst team in FCS and the worst in FBS. Frankly, they were both failures in relatively comparable time frames, yet only one is heralded as an offensive guru and keeps telling everyone how he could be somewhere bigger and better.

Can’t be a Can’t alum. None would have a million dollars.

He verbally committed to Arth’s staff per their X posts in October of ‘21. He probably didn’t sign his NLI in December because of the uncertainty around the new hire. JoMo and Fessler closed the deal in January because they had only been on the job 2 weeks and hadn’t time to recruit anybody. My point is that Jennings is not Moorhead’s kid, nor Jankowski. Wasel is a different story but if they don’t give him a chance in last 4 games given where the season stands ( and his redshirt intact) then that may say something about their initial evaluation of him. I personally wish they would give Jankowski a start against the other worst team in FBS. With almost zero experience in three years, he has just a good a chance as what we’ve seen.

Jennings was recruited by Arth and he committed to Akron while Arth was still employed as HC.

Ok, my last comment on this. I absolutely agree that coaches do not give a 💩 about stars. I used the stars in my example to demonstrate my theory that the level of recruit for Akron and other Ohio MAC schools, from far outside Ohio, is not greater than that which is still available within Ohio and surrounding areas. I appreciate your X’s and O’s analysis as an ex- coach, I assume, but as a parent of two boys who played college football, my knowledge is how recruiting works at all levels.

I don’t think you do know what I mean by secondary. I’m talking the level of recruit. 2 and 3 stars that the coaches know have greater potential to develop than what the rating services are suggesting. And that kid differs depending on where he lives. There is so much talent in the south now that every coach in the world thinks he can just throw his line in the water and land a big fish (Bowden), but the 4/5 stars go to the top SEC schools or a few other national powers, then the really talented 3 stars go to the rest of the SEC schools or the Big 12 or ACC. Then the lower level 3 star goes to the better Sun Belt or AAC schools and finally the better 2 stars stay close to home at those same conference schools. The rest of the kids who are barely 2 stars, unrated or over rated 3 stars (that most coaches in the region already recognize as such) are what is available to Akron or the MAC. Might you get an over looked kid now and then like Mumpfield, yes, but the majority are not even MAC worthy talent. They had no other options. Now in Ohio, every 4 or 5 star is generally going to OSU first, or the rest of the Big 10 or ND or maybe regional P5 like Pitt or WVU. The really good 3 stars (86-89 rated) are filling in the rest of the Big 10 schools. Now the lower 3 stars (85- 80) identified as having potential by the staff are going to have the MAC as their primary choice in most instances and should be a greater focus of Akron and every MAC school, but they are not because they are too focused on what they think they are getting from down south. They all think they are geniuses but they’re not. Even with Ohio not being as loaded with HS talent as years ago, the opportunity to get these “secondary” (lower rated 3 stars ID’d by the staff) is greater today because of the Ohio State’s and the Rest of the Big 10’s greater national focus. Ohio State is taking 4 and 5 stars at every position. If they’re from Ohio great, but their focus is only on the stars. In the olden days of my time, they took every Ohio kid who was a top 3 star. 80% of the roster was Ohio, Miami and Toledo got the low 3 stars that were left, developed them and thrived. Now OSU isn’t taking Ohio kids unless they are 4 or 5 stars. Their roster is no more than 40% Ohio and a lot of those kids are walk-ons. The pool of Ohio talent is somewhat smaller but the availability of lower 3 stars in Ohio that would be receptive to a MAC program is greater. So, keep recruiting HS players from the south or outside Ohio and contiguous areas like western PA that have won nothing or rely on the portal where the same logic applies, getting kids who were 2 or 3 stars to begin with and didn’t pan out at their first choice. Neither approach has worked so far. You are not going to get a 4 or 5 star QB or lineman for that matter in the portal to come to Akron. Lingard is an anomaly. Even Moorhead has said he wants to recruit more locally and has shown it to some extent by recruiting his western PA roots, but IMO he is primarily recruiting for the here and now to get his next job , so the portal it is. I’ve enjoyed the back and forth but my old retired self is exhausted now.

I’m not suggesting any team ignore the transfer portal. Akron’s improvement on defense is clearly due to the influx of transfers, but the portal is 3 frigging years old and for the better part of the last 40 years, transfers were few and far between. Miami made hay during those years and prior, by getting the second level kids that Ohio State didn’t grab or the Michigan’s and Michigan States etc. There was still enough talent they grabbed from NE Ohio to be one of the two dominant MAC programs. Now they don’t come recruit Ohio as hard and NE Ohio at all and they are no longer a dominant program. I stand by the reasoning that HS recruiting and development is far preferable to turning the roster over every two years and if you can land local “secondary” talent, all the better. Akron’s historic record isn’t good inside or outside, transfer or not. Yes, they need to find a QB from anywhere, but their greatest success was an under recruited kid from Willard who was looking for a good fit. And when I say NE Ohio, I’m not saying they need to find APS kids or Hoban kids, I’m talking the triangle from Lorain county through Cleveland to Youngstown back down to Massillon, Canton and Akron. If Akron outrecruited the rest of the MAC in that area, they would be a top tier MAC program. Miami’s past history proved that, and no one has filled the void. What the hell does UA have to lose trying. 40 years of mostly crap football would suggest nothing.

Other than Allar, Maendler’s QB factory looks like Lordstown, empty. He’s used that kid to his own self promotional success.

GP - He is averaging over 6 wins a year. Me- 6 wins a year over 10 years, based on Miami’s history is… Mediocre. GP - the main focus isn’t NW Ohio. Me - agreed, I said NE Ohio, NW Ohio and Detroit are where Toledo still make their mark. GP - there isn’t a place in the country that doesn’t overestimate their local talent. Me- Agree, not suggesting you only recruit locally but Ne Ohio was the reason Miami was more successful for 30 years in the MAC than anybody else. Their emphasis now is more Indiana, Illinois than Ohio and sorry those states are still not Ohio when it comes to HS talent. GP - a coach can’t fill his roster with portal players just because he thinks fans will be happy with local recruits. Me - exactly, but the portal is a short time fix at best. HS recruiting and development would be the best approach and getting local kids is Akrons only chance to get out of this rut. No good players are coming through the portal and no top recruits are coming from around the country given Akrons struggles. Only finding some under recruited kids who are from Ohio and who think Akron gives them a shot and it’s close, familiar et and the coaches can develop them will end this cycle of failure.

I pretty much followed 247 which I realize has its flaws, but Wasel wasn’t rated at all until after signing. I will accept your Rivals citation but being 28th or even 20th in Oklahoma is like being top 150-200 in Ohio, even now with Ohio’s HS base less than what it once was. Still a top 7 state. Oklahoma,Ok St and Tulsa would not be D1 if they didn’t sit next to Texas.

I don’t dispute any of your response other than he has assembled a strong program and been more than mediocre. His OOC record is 3-31 or something close to that. It’s a program that has had probably a half dozen top 25 finishes in its history and at least three top 10 finishes. His overall record is mediocre but he has been successful in the MAC to a degree. Yes, they are successful this year due to his 5th year QB ( Who entered the portal briefly but returned) and a strong defense. As noted, that is mostly due to the MAC’s weakness. Completely agree with how Akron should follow the big 3’s blueprint at QB, but my greater point was that local recruiting is still important. Granted, like some others have said, the recruiting landscape is different, kids go national more now, Ohio has lost population etc,etc. But Ohio is still one of the top 7 sates for high school recruiting and Akron’s greatest advantage over the rest of the MAC (with the exception of Kent) is its locale in the middle of NE Ohio (which is still the strength of OHio HS football and western PA. They need to make better use of this advantage to build up the whole program through HS recruiting and development as you suggest the big three have. I agree, that OU and Toledo have stuck to local and Ohio, Miami not so much and nowhere near when they were much more successful.

??? Their HC is in his tenth season. This year will be their 5th bowl game but they have had only 4 winning seasons and I mean marginally (7-6, 7-5, 2-1 in COVID year) in his tenure. Two of their bowl seasons ended with losing records. During the 70s -90s, they had multiple seasons of 10-1 where they didn’t get a bowl invite due to lack of conference tie-ins and bowl games. You’re correct that he barely recruits Ohio, but that is why he has been mediocre there. The Miami teams of the 70s - early 2000s were totally dominated by Ohio recruits, most specifically NE Ohio from their linemen to their skill position players. They and Toledo are the two dominant MAC teams in history with Miami still having the most wins and championships, despite Toledo being the more consistent program over the last 20 years. Toledo still concentrates locally (Detroit), Martin couldn’t find NE Ohio (or SW Ohio to a lesser extent) on a map despite his brother coaching a local D6 power (Cuyahoga Hts). I realize most Zips fans would be thrilled with Miami’s recent bowl appearances but it is the result of the overall weakness of the MAC and the proliferation of bowl games, not the strength of their non-Ohio roster. They have fallen far from their glory days since all but abandoning Ohio. Trust me, I was no fan of Arth in the end, but he was trying to establish an Ohiocentric recruiting culture with kids whom Akron was their first choice. In the end, he was out of his league but right now, it’s hard to argue that his record would be any worse than what Moorhead has done. I get he had a good track record at PSU and MSU ( Oregon- meh), but his biggest problem right now is his stubbornness ( failure to adapt his offense with what he has at QB) and cockiness ( “I could be in the NFL or at a P5 but I came here”). BS - he lowered himself because he was going to be out of a job, but was still being paid the big bucks and his wife told him to take the extra $$$ for a couple years while we’re closer to family, and then we’ll move on. All the QB problems are of his making, he anointed DJ from the jump because he had recruited him out of HS and with the knowledge of a lot of tape from the ‘21 season that wasn’t all that great. He is responsible for bringing in both Undercuffler and Tahj. Finally he recruited both Jennings and Wasel, neither of whom was rated highly by the recruiting services. Dijon was a three star in Ohio, but looking at his tape, he is not a D1 QB, even as a RPO type in Jo MO’s system. The rating was based more as an athlete. Wasel wasn’t even rated until the final days of the recruiting cycle when he ended up at an FBS. So all these kids with the exception of Jankowski are his and the position is a mess. Even if he is correct and Wasel is as good as some people here think, than why isn’t he getting an opportunity in this era. If the kid is a superstar these days, they are leaving after three years and if a kid doesn’t get a shot in the first two years they are hitting the portal. Saving a RS in this situation is stupid unless he isn’t ready. Lastly, all of Moorhead’s posturing since he took the job makes him look remarkably like Sean Payton in Denver. My prediction is he is looking to get out again at seasons end, most likely at a lower figure than he was hoping for last year when he interviewed or as soon as he can get 4 wins in a season and declare it some miraculous accomplishment only made possible by his genius, again at a discount to what he originally figured. After that, I don’t know what Akron’s choices could possibly be but I’m starting to agree with Dre22 that Tyrell may be the only option with his knowledge of NE Ohio players and HS coaches. I still feel Vince Kehres was the best choice when they passed him over for Arth.

Official visits are not inexpensive. The recruit and his parents are in a hotel for two nights and then there is the accompanying dinners and general entertainment. Of course, Akron is not spending what the average P5 does on an official visit, let alone Texas which supposedly spent $350,000 on 8 recruits the weekend they hosted Arch Manning (I’m not sure how that was even possible, but that was the rumor ). The official visit is probably still more important at the G5 level now than at the P5 where NIL is driving more decisions for the skill positions.

BW's Brian Harrison interviewed for the job previously and was passed over for Sabo. Based on the minimal increase in salary that Akron might provide (Harrison is probably at the the top of the OAC), I don't see him taking it now.. He has built a perennial contender in the OAC (arguably the toughest baseball conference in DIII), competing in consecutive DIII CWS and finishing third this year. He has administration support and strong student body and community support. He has developed a strong culture where recruits are coming to him from the D1 and D2 levels and doesn't have to travel all summer to recruit as most of the strong Ohio club programs make appearances at BW's Fisher Field. BW crushed Akron 17-2 two years ago. This year's team would have beat half the teams in the MAC in a three game series. He can stay forever at BW and have a great career and nice life for his family or chase a few more dollars at Akron, trying to compete in a lower level D1 conference at a school with little baseball tradition, restricted scholarships and little AD support if the rumors are true about how Donnelly was handled. I thought Miami or UC jobs might interest him, but Miami hired Indiana St assistant while BW was in CWS and UC is probably going to make a D1 name hire as they head into the Big 12.

Yes Enrique would’ve been a more deserving nominee. And the winner should’ve been Jacob Decatur, national Champion wrestler from BW. In 36 matches, he never suffered a takedown! Finished 35-1 with only loss to the D2 NC. Wiglusz would also have been more deserving.

NIU 86 - Kent 76 Akron 73 - Miami 68 (1 pt diff with 33 seconds left at home) 😳

This is partially on Guthrie for being more concerned with making a “name” hire. Minimal due diligence within the college baseball world would’ve revealed the douche that he is known to be.

He just left for Marshall. Players found out via Twitter. There was reason OSU fired him. A-hole with a capital A!

Could it be that they committed to it (out of necessity) rather than relying on DJI to be all of the offense, all of the time?