Dave in Green

And I'm having trouble seeing what's so hard to comprehend about the fact that it's physically impossible not to swing when grabbing the rim to protect oneself while driving the basket at full speed, and that it's physically impossible to pull oneself up on the rim without bending one's elbows. But the conversation could go on forever because it's all based on personal interpretation and we all see things a little differently.

LZip, you said there was no judgment to be made whereas zippyman23 said "it's up to the ref's interpretation." You said that pulling himself up is irrelevant whereas the official made a point of saying that "he pulled himself up." You said nobody was even around Lillard when the video shows a defender running with him, reaching out and touching his back just as he was taking off. Lillard had to stay focused on the basket and had no way of knowing the defender behind him had put on the brakes at the last second. We've watched the video, read the quotes, gotten an opinion here from a HS ref and come to different conclusions. What a surprise on a sports forum.

That's an interesting interpretation of Ohio HS officiating rules considering that earlier in this thread an Ohio HS official posted just the opposite: As for comparing this to the Can't game no-call travel, apples and oranges. Taking one too many steps without dribbling is a black-and-white rule, not a pure judgment call like whether hanging on the rim was done for showboating or safety concerns. When it comes to avoiding injury, the benefit of the doubt should always be given to the player.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed #12 trailing Lillard with his hand in his back to let him know he was there. Fearing the closely trailing defender was going to push him from behind was reason enough for Lillard to fear for his safety when he went up high and fast to the rim. Ultimately it was a pure judgment call by the ref, and the ref didn't see anything but what he mistook for Lillard "pulling himself up."

I don't understand why some are ignoring the direct quote from the ref, who specifically said "he pulled himself up" as the reason why he was given a T. Yet the video clearly shows that he did not pull himself up as he never flexed his arms and changed the angle of his elbows. The player said he was trying to prevent an injury to himself, which is clearly within the scope of the rule. I've seen a lot of showboat dunks over the years that clearly deserved a T. When a player makes a full-speed drive dunk and fears he's about to crash land he has every right to grab the rim to protect himself from injury. That's why the rule is written the way it is. The rule doesn't say there has to be someone under the player in order for him to feel he has to grab the rim to protect himself.

Just wondering if any of the doubters can show us a video of a person "pulling themselves up" without bending their arms at the elbow. Here's a video showing 25 variations of pullups. See if any of them resemble the lack of elbow bending in the Lillard video: It would also be interesting if anyone could produce a video of someone running at a raised stationary object, jumping up and grabbing it with both hands and not have momentum cause their body to rotate and extend horizontal to the floor. From what I learned many years ago in science class the results are always going to be similar to this video:

The ref said "he pulled himself up." No he didn't. If he had pulled himself up his arms would have had to bend at the elbows as when doing a pullup. The USA Today video clearly shows that his arms did not bend at the elbows but remained at a consistent angle throughout the hang time. It was purely his forward momentum that pulled his body up. The video clearly shows that the ref mistook the momentum that caused his lower body to swing up for pulling himself up. The rule needs to be clarified as it is currently too open to misinterpretation.

I recall watching the Zeke technical video pretty carefully and also this one on Antwon, and to me they are very similar. Both players were on fast breaks when they went up for their slams and both grabbed the rim to stop their forward momentum for safety reasons. That's what made their bodies stretch out parallel to the floor. That's different from a player standing under the basket, taking a step or two, slamming and using their arms to pull their body up. I really think officials need to differentiate between a player's momentum carrying their body up, which is a safety issue, and a player without momentum pulling himself up, which is showboating unless there is another player standing directly under him. Here's the exact rule from the NCAA rule book: Antwon's own description fits what I saw in the video:

The University of Texas position is also open, and so far Hurley's name hasn't been mentioned for that one. Rumors say that Gregg Marshall and Shaka Smart are the leading candidates, and that both might be interested.

Greyshirt is not the appropriate term. If Lillard is an academic non-qualifier -- that is, if his HS grades and test scores don't meet minimum college level requirements -- he could enroll at a college for a year and try to become academically qualified and be eligible for an athletic scholarship. But if he's academically qualified out of HS and is a good player, he will likely take a scholarship offer somewhere that he can play without sitting out a year. Some of the stories about him have said that he has received offers from D-I schools.

Hilltopper is correct. The annual debt payment for the stadium bonds is $4.3 million. That doesn't just affect the basketball program.

Economics 101.

Good ESPN story on how Louisville under Rick Pitino and Michigan State under Tom Izzo are making tournament runs that aren't as unlikely as they might appear on the surface:

He towers over Antino.

Agreed on St. John's. They're not as far down the Big East pecking order as DePaul, they're in the heart of NYC for recruiting and they play home games in MSG.

Good analysis. A10 teams have a conference recruiting edge over MAC teams that currently gives UMass a talent advantage over MAC teams. That would go away if they were in the MAC.

Nice research, OU Dude. In 1988 John Calipari took over a UMass basketball program that didn't have a winning record for 10 straight seasons and turned them into a national power. Since he left in 1996 they've had almost as many losing seasons as winning ones. Their basketball program would likely be above average but not dominant in the MAC.

DePaul was paying Purnell $2.2 million.

Skip, I guess we were both off topic for discussing UNI's performance in the NCAA Tournament in a thread entitled NCAA Tournament. Shame on both of us.

Skip, to summarize, you asked that I go back and read the posts concerning UNI. I did, and the original posts on the subject -- which were all I've questioned here -- were pretty much as I had recalled them. I stand by my original point and you stand by yours. There's no need to continue the discussion as we've already supplied more than enough material here for everyone to reach their own conclusions. Disclaimer: I was not born in Iowa nor have I ever lived in Iowa. I have no economic interests in Iowa nor have I ever been a fan of any Iowa teams. I did not fill out a bracket for the tournament and was not hurt in any way when UNI lost to higher-seeded Louisville.

Skip, I have to say I find reading some of your selective interpretations to be among the most entertaining features of ZipsNation for me. I went back and read the posts, and here's the way I see it: Your original contention was that seeing a "projection" of Buffalo drawing UNI in the NCAA tournament made you want to cry, presumably because you thought UNI was a soft draw, and that you'd love a MAC champion matchup with UNI. I and others thought you were selling UNI short, meaning they would be a tough matchup for the MAC champion. You were quick to point out that UNI was beaten badly by Wichita State in Wichita while ignoring that Wichita State was earlier beaten badly by UNI in Cedar Falls. When the NCAA tournament began, you remained silent when #5 seed UNI wiped the floor with #12 seed Wyoming and won by 17 points (the other #12 seeds lost to the other #5 seeds by 3, 6 and 7 points), spoiling your original contention that UNI would have been a dream matchup for the MAC champion. Then you popped up gloating when perennial power Louisville and multiple national champion coach Rick Pitino knocked UNI out of the tournament, as if that was relevant to UNI being a dream first-round matchup for the MAC champion. The original discussion was how the MAC champion would matchup against UNI. You underestimated how tough UNI would be as a first round opponent for a MAC level team (like Wyoming) and others got it right. How UNI performed after the first round was never part of the original discussion.

Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back. UNI was every bit as good as Wichita State over the course of the season. Wichita State happened to outplay Kansas in one game and Louisville happened to outplay UNI in one game. Doesn't confirm to the rest of the world that UNI was as weak a team as it was in your mind.

VerbalCommits.com has been my go-to for best recruiting info, but they don't yet show an offer for Malik. They currently show open offers to 8 other players in addition to the verbal from Isaiah Williams.

Just to close this part of the Hurley discussion out, I think that you and I differ in this only on degree. You seem to to be saying that DePaul is absolutely a total lost cause under any circumstances and I'm just saying that's not necessarily true, that it could have a successful program with the right coach and the right backing from the university. We both agree that Hurley can probably do better than DePaul with another school that has a greater chance of success with him as coach.

Some wondered what Chapman was asking for that Coach Owens was quoted as saying that Ashland couldn't provide. This answers that question: