Zip_ME87

Again, if your sources are reliable, it's not hearsay. Why are Tom's quotes in the ABJ about this only affecting the soccer pitch for 1 year if at all not hearsay? Ok, so you know who the source is. The same source who told us all the great things that Rob Ianello would do and the outstanding community member he would be. Ask Terry Bowden about the relations he had to build and damage he had to mend to be able to recruit locally thanks to Rob Ianello's good relationship/standing in the community. I don't recall saying that people coming to campus wouldn't convince some of them to come to UA. I'm sure it will. But, the thing that would really bring increased enrollment would be lower tuition than competitors while still providing a quality education that rivals your higher priced competitors. You don't lower tuition if you put yourself in a bad position. "(and makes money is the process)" & "a BIG NAME tenant is willing to pay to use them" are assumptions and are only no brainers if you're guaranteed to not lose money. There will never be any evidence to change your logic. If A & B & C happen, then D. IF A. we make money and B. bring people to campus and C. in the process some of them choose to enroll at UA then D. it's good. No way would I argue that IF your A, B, and C occur, that it's not D. good for UA. The problem with your logic is that A is unknown, even if the proposal includes payments from the Browns. You don't know the effect on the soccer field and costs of proper repairs, the effect on mens soccer attendance, or the effect on donations from the soccer alumni and donors. The mens soccer program has some significant donors who were there even before the Mens Soccer National Championship. Pissing off a known source of funding isn't very logical.

Not sure to what you're referring. Who's skating around what?

DeAndre Yedlin and the Seattle Sounders take on the Philadelphia Union tonight at 7:30 pm ET/4:30 pm PT for the US Open Cup. Broadcast on Soundersfc.com http://www.soundersfc.com//content/2014-us-open-cup-final-vs-philadelphia-union

Thanks. That's what I thought you were saying. Good to have a tangible piece of evidence, whichever way it leans. I wonder if UA officials ever bothered to poll the current student population about this among other demographics. It would be interesting to have some sense of the impact of the look/feel of the campus on student selection of UA. It's interesting that when I attended UA, it was an "urban" campus with Buchtel and Carroll Streets open, yet enrollment was 26k - 28k. Spring 2014 shows 23,342 at Akron main campus. I'm trying to verify my figure for 1987, but the page won't load from UA's website. EDIT: Of course, when I started at Akron in 1982, the cost was ~$37/credit hour with open enrollment. I think the tuition cost was the lowest in the state. That would trump a lot of factors especially with local commuting students who didn't have to add room and board. Gasoline was also in the $1/gallon range. Can't compare enrollment then vs now. Data is skewed.

Reading Marla's article, track, yes...indoor & outdoor. Baseball & Softball aren't mentioned unless I somehow overlooked them. The Browns used to play in Municipal Stadium where they shared the field with the Indians for several weeks a year. I don't see why they couldn't do that for practice for Year 1. If you're going to wreck one field, wreck them all. Since all those local politicians signed on, the Browns should use Canal Park, too. Spread those Browns fans out all over the city. They'll see so much more it will add to our profits!

We don't have to wait on GT. The University of Akron is a public institution and as such, they have to make public records available to the residents of the State of Ohio. Ask for the data yourself. Because the people in that room are not only donors, but taxpayers and residents of the State of Ohio. The University of Akron is a public institution. They have to make public records viewable by the public. The Administration is supposed to be "transparent". Why does everyone seems to be so timid about asking for public records? Oh, I have to have the ABJ do it for me. I got my degree at The University of Akron. I don't have to have a PhD to know who to trust and who to question and when 1+1 isn't adding to 2 as in this case. Yours is a fallacy of believing that because the new president and Tom Wistrcill say it's good and you love the Browns and want it to be good, then it must be good. The UA President and AD are public employees who have to answer to us. Ask them. I certainly was prepared to ask Tom at the Soccer match Sunday afternoon, but he chose not to show up. Do you bother to read all of the posts here? I gave of the soccer pitch thing up a number of posts back. Bad me in the way I started this debate. It still bothers me about the soccer pitch, and I still don't want them to use it, but that's not the REAL issue. The REAL issue is what are the potential outcomes and pitfalls of this deal and what is the likelihood UA will realize a benefit or bleed more red ink. Follow the advice implied by Spin's signature. It applies to written as well as verbal communication.

A 2nd reliable source tells me there are no "rent' (payments) from the Browns in the proposal. Will funding from parking and concessions be enough to make this a worthwhile venture? Crickets chirping from the records officer thus far. Not even a response stating he received my e-mail and will get back with me. Plenty of logical reasons why hasn't responded for me not to question his motives, and I do mean that. He could be on vacation or swamped with other things and my request is waiting in his queue for him to get to it. I will give him more time, and then call tomorrow to ensure he received it and find out if he needs clarficiation as to what I want. As far as the AD, President, and others, even the best people can make mistakes when they don't give due diligence to what they're doing. Sometimes, they make mistakes even if they do, but at least they went into it with eyes wide open. The purpose of my quotes from the AD was to point out that he is often wrong and has been BIG TIME wrong in the past. The things he stated about Rob Ianello were so far off the mark, I can't believe Tom still has his job. It also points out that it is completely possible to have a resume that may paint of picture of a person in one light, yet their actions prove otherwise. Trust and respect are earned. The new UA president may have an outstanding resume, but he has to earn my trust through his actions. I'm not giving it away so easily as some would just from reading a piece of paper. This president has already earned a demerit by saying one thing "We told Moody’s and Fitch that we would be a disciplined organization, with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and actions." and doing another ... having Tom put together a proposal in 2 weeks. Two weeks is not enough time for diligence, and Tom Wistricill has not demonstrated the leadership necessary to understand what he's putting together and all of it's potential repercussions. Another well-meaning, Texas-born president of UA told us back in the 1980's that we were getting a great, new arena for the University of Akron. The result was the JAR. He also said that our first football coach from Notre Dame would bring glory to the Zips. Yeah, that turned out well. Took the Zips 23 years to return to the NCAA Basketball Tournament after Bob Huggins went to Cincinnati following that great decision. Keener'92 had a good point. I don't want to join the illustrious ranks of the institutions that he listed. That group indicates this not to be the helpful venture it's thought to be. I suggest that members on this board heed the advice implied in Spin's signature line from Steven Covey. "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply." It could also be said that "Many people do not read with the intent to understand; they read with the intent to reply." I sincerely thank everyone who has responded positively or negatively to my posts and I do mean that. It took me awhile, as I said in an earlier post, to understand that I started this thread over the wrong issue. The real issue is the effect of the Browns Training Camp on UA as a whole. That is the point I will continue to make to university officials in any correspondence I have with them. I believe UA is on the verge of entering into an agreement of which they have not diligently explored all of the possible outcomes/repercussions. UA could get into an agreement with the Browns that doesn't fulfill the administratrations hopes and further strains an already overly constrained budget. How often have we seen politicans enact something, and it has an effect they didn't expect. Business owners have a real stake in their business because it is their livelihood, and they make decision based on business models, risk asessments, cost-benefit analyses, etc. Politicans, including university presidents, don't have the same motivation. If they make a mistake one place, they can move on to another. As fknbuflobo stated, UA students and alumni are the ones left with the mess. I made the mistake of being satirical along the way and pissing off Browns fans and others with incendiary remarks. I apologize for that. I think most of us can agree that we love UA, or we wouldn't even be on this forum. I encourage all of you to demand more of UA's leaders than just assumptions and hope. Those of us who pay tuition or make donations to UA deserve it. That answers the question of why the president and AD should have brought this subject to light at Saturday night's soccer alumni event. There were many donors in that room who give significant yearly donations to UA. They deserve proper respect from the UA Administration who are only with UA temporarily. EDIT: I bolded things not for emphasis or to shout them out but rather to point them out since this turned out to be "a novel". I think you can read the bold print and get most of my points if you don't want to read everything.

it's not hearsay if it comes from a good source. Watergate is a good example. You know what they say about assumptions...

Isn't there a receiver for the San Diego Chargers in the NFL who chose to play basketball in college? Yeah, Antonio Gates, I believe. There may be others with similar backgrounds, but I'm not well versed on NFL players. My point is that choosing soccer today at one level doesn't necessarily preclude football tomorrow at another level if one is a great athlete. Also, perhaps this guy is a good student, too. That could make him eligible for an academic scholarship. Soccer scholarships are limited, but other possibilities sometimes present themselves.

I also think #9 Holthusen has potential up front. Nice to have viable options.

I'll give you that the Browns use of the soccer pitch is not a done deal yet. the AD, as characterized in Marla's artice: If UA is the Browns’ choice, Wistrcill said the Browns might have to use the soccer field in 2015. “We would look at it as ‘Here’s all of our available grass space for year one.’ Would the soccer field be in play? It could be. If that’s the case, that’s a one-year situation,” Wistrcill said in an interview in his office Tuesday. “The great thing about that soccer stadium, the grass is off the charts, it’s strong, it drains really well, it repairs itself quickly. 1 mistatement...The soccer pitch doesn't drain well in the east end is a known and observed fact. Tom Wistrcill, December 2009: “We are extremely excited to name Rob Ianello as our new head football coach,” Wistrcill said. “Rob’s experience with some of the top programs in the country, coupled with his recruiting prowess, made him stand out among a great group of candidates. “He demonstrated to us a clear plan on how to build a complete championship program – one that has been successfully tested at other University’s around the country – and we are excited to help him execute that plan. He will be a great leader for the young men on our football team and a great part of the Akron community.” WOW, how can I not be confident in what Tom says or does? Now comes a new President who loves football and who sees an outstanding football coach currently in place, with awesome facilites that previous ADs built. The Browns and Jimmy Haslam visit for a day and bring lots of fans to our beautiful campus and Jimmy makes some great statements while our new prez rubs elbows with an NFL owner and is wowed by Johnny Football. Do you think President Scarborough bothered to ask AD Wistrcill how all of this came about. I doubt it because he was so wide-eyed like a little kid in a candy store. I know, this is all conjecture and my opinion. But come on, we're all human. You really don't think the new preseident could be so overtaken by this as to not really give it due diligence. Again, this is my opinion...reason to request the data. Please give me your conjecture of why the new president & our illustrious AD didn't bring this Browns training Camp proposal up with the soccer attendees Saturday night.

Sorry. I meant visible football lines only while the Browns are using it for the 20 days in Year 1. If the President's and AD's assertions are correct, I will see this on tv during interviews from training camp during sports news broadcasts. Even though I won't go to see it in person because it would trouble me so much, I won't be able to miss it on the evening news under those assertions. I'm trying to choose my words more carefully as I've realized through some debate about this topic that written words can easily be misinterpreted. I'll strive to do a better job next time so I don't have to follow up.

That's the plan. Whatever the data shows. If it shows real benefits with real supportable analysis, and a true plan for the Browns to only use Cub Cadet Field for 1-year, then I'll get behind it even if it makes me heart-sick to see football markings on our soccer field for 20 days in Year 1. I support UA, not just the soccer program. FIXED

CORRECTION: There is one interest of mine, and hopefully many of yours, that is worth discussing here. I started this thread about a soccer pitch that means a lot to me and others, but the real issue here is the bottom line. The same source that told me about this in the first place (which turned out to be true) also told me that the numbers show that hosting the Browns Training Camp will bleed more funds from an already constrained budget. I have a relative who is currently enrolled at and attending UA. I don't want to see his or anyone's tuition costs further increased because of someone's whim. There was a soccer alumni, Varsity A, and supporter's dinner Saturday night after the article came out that morning. Why didn't the UA President and AD, who were in attendance, share their vision with that group? They knew that group out of all of UA's donors, alumni, and supporters was the most likely to be upset. If the data supports it, be transparent; explain it. I think we're all entitled to see the data that shows the benefits to UA. If you want to debate that, have at it. I'd love to hear your logic.

It took me awhile, but I've come to the realization that it's not worth discussing here any further for the following reasons. I've made assumptions without data, others have made assumptions without data. No proposal is a "no-brainer". There are pros and cons to everything and sound business decisions are made with due diligence and sound business information. The new UA President has said that himself ("We told Moody’s and Fitch that we would be a disciplined organization, with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and actions.") Preparing a proposal in 2 weeks doesn't seem like "disciplined thought and actions" to me, but that's my opinion based on my experience which I can debate vs other ZipsNation.org poster's opinion. That debate, however, would just be my opinion(s) vs others' opinion(s) with no data. I have submitted my public information request to the university and will refrain from making further comments based upon my interests and opinion. Instead I will see how thoughtful and business smart our new President is or whether he is just a politician employing smoke and mirrors for an idea that pleases him.

Thanks LZip. I should have looked before I posted that. http://rebateeducation.pilotflyingj.com/pilot-flying-j-reaches-agreement-with-federal-government/

By the way, I seem to remember a discussion on ZipsNation.org some time ago centered around controversy with Infocision. There were some articles about Infocision keeping a significant percentage of donations they raised through telemarketing for charitable organizations and maybe otherr things. I don't recall all of the details, but it seemed that numerous posters on this board were concerned about how that made UA look with Infocision's name on our stadium. Is the controversy with Jimmy Haslam and Pilot/Flying J completely settled? I know it's died down, but is there anything more there? I sure would hate for the university to get bad publicity from a questionable relationship. I hope unversity officals considered this.

I hear you Dave, but my experience is that hope is not a good strategy. Agreements like this potential one with the Browns should only be entered into after diligent and thoughtful planning. I won't make any more assumptions but request the evidence from the university that shows a real, viable plan to benefit from this and to not damage any program at the university at the expense of some university officials' whim. It could very easily be that UA enter into this with good intentions, but once signed, have no way to implement ideas beyond the first year due to funding realities and additional financial losses. Marla's article is informative but falls short on details that she could obtain under public records laws if she were to ask.

I agree. I posted in this thread in response to others and started the 3rd thread to be sarcastic. In retrospect, that was stupid. I should have stuck to my original thread and not allowed others to provoke me. I'll look for it.

I should have questioned that. I don't see anything in the NCAA transfer guidance about that and yes I've seen transfers play their old school now that I think about it.

It's amazing that this could happen again. I guess those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it. Maybe every college coach should consider showing this game and/or our Gardner-Webb game as a teaching moment at the beginning of the season.

“I told Moody’s and Fitch that we would be a disciplined organization with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and action,” he said. The university would become more strategically focused and more efficient and would stop doing some things we can no longer afford, “not because we want to, because we have to,” he told the Roundtable. http://www.ohio.com/news/local/new-university-of-akron-president-outlines-aggressive-program-in-talk-with-roundtable-audience-1.511609 Does President Scarborough really believe that putting together a proposal for the Browns in 2 weeks is being "a disciplined organization with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and action." I wonder what Moody's and Fitch would think. I hope Zips alumni, students, and fans realize how badly this could affect UA if all of these attention getting things don't work and UA's bottom line bleeds even more.

I have been in the past, but I had a really bad feeling about this. Now that Marla Ridenour's article is out, and Tom is quoted saying they put the proposal together in 2 weeks, I have an even worse feeling about this. I don't believe the university will be getting compensated well by the Browns, if at all. They couldn't have done proper due diligence in 2 weeks. This wreaks of wow factor, smoke, and mirrors. I'm going to have to think about what I can request under the Ohio public records law that will either confirm or alleviate my fears. As an alumnus who has season tickets for multiple sports and loves no other teams like the Zips, this really sucks. I wish so much they would have put their efforts into working with the city and county on a downtown arena/Akron entertainment venue that Zips basketball could use and maybe bring the Charge to Akron and get the CAVS to play a preseason game or 2 in Akron. Tie it all in neatly with Akron's hometown sports hero, LeBron James, and it seems like such a neat package. Instead they're doing something else with as much thought as they put into hiring Rob Ianello if not less.

How Big-Time Sports Ate College Life

Thanks. I didn't know that.