Zip_ME87

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Create one. US Basketball vs other teams in the world. US Baseball vs other teams in the world. I guess we have the Olympics which have basketball but did away with baseball. Doesn't really matter. Just pointing out how conceited those claims are today. Just like the Miami Redskins became the Redhawks, MLB could change their Championship. I guess since we're the only country in the world that plays American Football, the NFL can continue to make its claim. Still seems conceited. EDIT: Now I'm just ranting in response to others.

Cop out when you have no facts to back up your position. I so look forward to your next well thought out response.

Read what you want, but my point was that MLB should change "World Series" to "MLB Championship Series" NBA should change rings to "NBA Champions" NFL should change rings to "NFL Champions" MLS named their championship "MLS Cup" NHL has the "Stanley Cup" It's easy and conceited for MLB, NBA, and NFL to claim "World Champion" when they don't invite the rest of the world. Your interpretation of what I was saying is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on ZN.o. ROFLMAO a lot today. My side hurts.

This has gone well beyond Cleveland Browns Training Camp coming to UA. Whether or not we agree on that and the use of First Energy Stadium-Cub Cadet Field, I hope you've seen enough herein as I have to understand how blunders like hiring Rob Ianello occur. How many blunders like that can we afford and ever get anywhere with the football program and fixing the budget issues? I can't imagine anyone seeing omissions and miscues like those apparent here and believing this to even come close to appearing as "a disciplined organization, with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and actions". I wish Dr. Scarborough the best in getting things aligned with his vision.

This just in from the UA public records officer... Mr. , no cost-benefit analysis document was created. Thus, I don’t have any additional documents to provide to you. Thanks, Scott Campbell Scott M. Campbell The University of Akron Office of General Counsel Associate General Counsel and Records Compliance Officer Buchtel Hall, Suite 63 Akron, Ohio 44325-4706 smc4@uakron.edu 330-972-7226 - Office 330-612-5930 - Cell Fax - 330-384-2611 Surprise, No cost-benefit analysis document was created. Not a trade secret as indicated in the response to my first request. It was NOT created. Nice. Well, at least I don't have to take that 5 minutes during the evening news to e-mail the State Attorney General. Wow, I'm glad they saved me from getting that involved.

Yeah, your latest comments didn't seem consistent with your earlier comments. I thought perhaps someone else took over your account. I'm not sure I engaged the ABJ editorial page editor. I didn't contact him. His editorial just happened to be there and helped me point out that the use of Cub Cadet Field (CCF) for football practice shouldn't be shrugged off so easily whether it's the Browns or any other football team using it. Others share that opinion. It's not mine alone. My reference to that editorial had nothing to do with swaying whether the Browns come to UA for training camp or not. As you said, Dr. Scarborough put that to bed during my face-to-face conversation with him. As far as open warfare between various UA factions, I think I mentioned Zips Football. Go read the Football forum on ZN.o, and you'll find a number of posters talking about things that I raised, not about the use of CCF, but winning football games drawing fans and the disappointment in what we saw Saturday. As a Zips FB season ticket holder, I think I have the right to comment/complain like other Zips FB fans, especially when I bring people to a game trying to convince them to come back. Thanks Zips FB for that unhelpful performance. Browns fans on campus witnessing that could set the program back further. Word of mouth with their friends could be devastating. How about the Zips start winning consistently, then we get a bunch of new people to come see them with an ACME-Zip type one-time event like I suggested some time ago on the FB forum, I believe. Win then demonstrate to the masses that you're worth their time and money.

And when you bring new people trying to sell them on UA football, and they see games like that, you immediately lose credibility with trying to get them to return.

Yeah. Can't sugar-coat that.

No one here has shown me a convincing argument of the benefits of Browns Training Camp at UA. It's all been conjecture and gut feel. Eyes on campus, must be good. Branding and it will help attendance for Zips Football grow. How do you know that. Winning will help Zips Football attendance grow. You can see that from other successful football programs. Having eyes on campus doesn't necessarily do that. Some people who come to Browns camp may return to see a Zips Football game. if the Zips lay a turd on the field like they did this past Saturday, what's the likelihood of those people returning and how many of their friends are they going to tell how awful the Zips are. A large number of Browns fans coming to training camp will be Ohio State fans. Sorry, folks but that's just the way it is in O H I O. I hate it too, but they have all the bandwaggoners who never attended a class there and many who have probably never set foot on that campus in Columbus. How many of the tOSU-Browns fans are coming back for a Zips football game. Can't State is the only other D1 school of which I'm aware has hosted a Browns training camp. When I look at Can't State, why don't I see all of the wonderous things that did for them? Someone says they're out of this competition. Did they pull their proposal or did the Browns turn them down already? I didn't see that and no link was provided. If Can't State pulled their proposal why? Please somebody who really, truly wants the Browns at UA show me some hard evidence of what it will really do for UA? EDIT: Sorry, just realized I was incorrect. BGSU hosted the Browns as well, and I meant to say an NFL training camp. So, you have at least 2 places to get data, Can't State and BGSU. Given BG's campus, I'd suggest looking there for evidence that Browns Training Camp helped them. Can't State just doesn't seem to me like a good place to search for this kind of data and who wants to set foot on that campus if the Zips aren't playing there.

Great use of hyperbole. Actually, the only country to land men on the moon. Our leaders were much more ingenius and visionary back in the 1960's and early 1970's. We depend on Russia, a country with whom we have strained relations, to take us to the ISS [international Space Station] these days. We can't even get people into low Earth orbit 300 or so miles up. And, you expect me to believe UA Athletics Department leaders have a plan to force grass to grow and take good root in 2 weeks and return our field to its current condition, withstanding a Fall Season without issue? ROFLMAO again.

He's correct about the potential damage to Mens Soccer recruiting. But, that's ok. I recognize you and others don't care about a successful program at Akron. You haven't really read and understood my points about how important it is not to drive away supporters with significant influence and financial backing. I'd like to ask Dr. Scarborough if anyone leading the Athletics Department mentioned there might be an uproar about this. Dr. Scarborough is new to UA and deserves the insight and foresight of his team members, however much or little they might possess. If you think I'm among only a few concerned about this because only of a few of us are posting on ZN.o, you're living in a strangely skewed world. EDIT: The $250k figure came from UA, apparently without any analysis. Michael Douglas didn't make it up nor did anyone else have to submit it to him.

"Threatening", really? There was no threat intended. I just want to know if what UA's lawyers told me is correct. I'd like to see the cost-benefit analysis. It takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to forward an e-mail to the Attorney General's Office and ask if UA's position is correct. All of 5 minutes while watching the evening news. Way too involved. EDIT: If it exists and is protected, and they want to get me off their backs, they could offer to let me see it in exchange for signing a non-disclosure agreement. I didn't ask for a copy of it. I asked to see it.

At least someone at the ABJ gets it. KEEP OFF THE GRASS September 19, 2014

When you're soliciting endorsements it's not wise or funny to make that kind of f up. Sorry, that borders on incompetent but that couldn't be, could it? We haven't seen anything at UA, especially related to athletics, that borders on incompetent have we? ROFLMAO

DiG...I agree with many of your points, but the problem with the letter soliciting support is that it specifically states Infocision Stadium-Summa Field only. UA should have simply said The University of Akron and left it at that. To state a specific facility leads one to believe that only that facility will be used. Not a good move when asking for an endorsement to make that kind of an omission. As I stated above, this time I have 2 independent, reliable sources who have told me they know this local leader was upset about that omission. Not good if UA damaged their relationship with this person and possibly others. Also, I sent a follow-up e-mail to Dr. Scarborough mentioning if somehow the Browns still decided to potentially come to UA that I hoped the UA proposal was non-binding and that UA would be able to negotiate a good agreement having had more time to consider what UA was getting into from all aspects. I totally agree with you. I've done more than I've written about here to understand UA's approach to this proposal, but it's hard to go into everything. This has gone on so long already, I'm sure most folks are bored with it and just want to move on especially if it's a moot subject with the Browns taking their training camp to Columbus.

A little off topic, but am I the only one who was a little uncomfortable with UA playing that video that includes "We are Akron" "We are Akron" ... at a game versus Marshall. I can't imagine losing an enitre football team in a tragedy like they went through in the early 1970's. I personally don't like using the "We are..." as I think it should be utilized only by those who have suffered a real tragedy. When Virginia Tech used it after the shootings on their campus, it gave me the immediate understanding that they were saying they would perservere the same way Marshall did. It was a rallying cry to bring everyone together in the face of tragedy. Call me too sentimental, but it just gave me an uneasy feeling to play that in front of fans from a school that has faced such a tragedy. I did like that UA invited Jack Lengyel, who was a UA graduate, and the coach that brought Marshall Football back from that tragedy to do the coin toss. What a good linkage to share between our schools even if we dislike them on the football field.

And how many of the 13,357 were Marshall fans and high school band members and their families. Too bad the Zips couldn't show the band members and their families a decent product. Perhaps they would return. Once again, we crap all over the field, and none return to savor the stench.

Don't dillude yourself too much. Even with Chisholm and Hundley the running game vs 1-AA Howard wasn't very good. I'm in agreement with Keener'92's rant. I'm tired of excuses and looking at gimmicks and whatever else to draw attendance. Schedule games that we can win and start winning. People love a winner. If we can't do that, then we should give up football.

UA's Public Records Response is attached as I promised. I’ll start with item #1. I agree that the proposal itself is “competition sensitive” or “trade secret”, however UA wants to label it. I didn’t request to see the proposal. I requested to see the cost-benefit analysis. I sent a follow-up e-mail to the UA public records officers pointing out and clarifying my request. I haven’t heard back on that yet. If a cost-benefit analysis exists, can it be considered a “trade secret” based upon the case law quoted. I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer. If Mike Rasor still reads threads on this forum, perhaps he could bring to bear his UA law degree and provide us his legal opinion. Otherwise, I informed them that I would check with the Ohio Attorney General’s Office if I didn’t get a satisfactory answer. The Ohio Attorney General provides “mediation” in public records disputes for the State of Ohio. Given that Browns Training Camp is going to Columbus, I may not follow up on this, but it might be nice to know for future inquiries. Items 4 and 5. The fact that there are no documents responsive to these requests indicates to me that UA has not quantified these items. How can they know what costs might be involved, regardless of who covers those expenditures, if they haven’t analyzed what could happen? A diligent organization performs a risk assessment that includes potential expenditures that may be incurred before entering into a binding contract/agreement. It is necessary to understand potential effects to the bottom line. Items 7 and 8. I don’t understand how the yearly economic impact to the local area and listing of benefits to The University of Akron, if these documents exist, are trade secrets. Like item #1, I’m not a lawyer. Perhaps I should check these with the Ohio Attorney general’s Office also if I further explore the response to item 1. Items 2, 3, 6, and 10. When I made the request, I expected the response or similar to that which I received, but I thought I’d try anyway. I have no issue with UA’s response to these items. Item 9. The letter from UA requesting endorsements states specifically, “… As you may know, the Cleveland Browns are considering locating their training camp at The University of Akron’s Infocision Stadium-Summa Field (IS-SF) and have issued a Request for Proposals as part of this process. …” Specific mention of IS-SF and no mention of First Energy Stadium-Cub Cadet Field or any other UA facility. This was likely not intentional, but rather an oversight. However, I’ve heard from two independent, well-connected sources that at least one local leader (sorry I don’t feel that I can give his name since I haven’t spoken with him), was angered by this omission and threatened to pull his endorsement. He may have done so; I don’t know. You can tell me this is “hearsay” because I won’t name the sources or the local leader. Unfortunately, I’m not at liberty to post that information here as I was in the case of mentioning Dr. Scarborough’s information that the training camp is going to Columbus. You’ll have to decide for yourself if I’ve provided enough credible information along the way to believe that my sources are indeed knowledgeable. I would also ask that if this local leader was indeed upset over this omission, did UA permanently damage their relationship with this person? Did they damage their relationship with anyone else who provided his/her endorsement? If FES-CCF were to be used by the Browns, what other existing relationships, financial and influential, could UA damage? Did UA consider this? Did they figure it into the equation of potential gains versus potential losses? Sorry for this long post, but it illustrates nothing in life is a “no-brainer”. There are always trade offs. Some decisions are simply less involved than others. Entering into a contract/agreement with the Cleveland Browns or any party requires due diligence, and not just throwing together a proposal in 2 weeks because it seems like a good idea. A lot of good ideas turn out to not be as good as they appear on the surface. Remember the contract with Football Head Coach Ianello and how UA could have been on the hook for a significant financial burden even though he had been relieved of his duties. I’d hate to have to clean up a mess like that again. Thank goodness other parties intervened and hired him, alleviating UA of that or most of it. I hope our AD sent thank you gifts to the Kansas AD along with his condolences to their students, alumni, and fans. Browns training camp at UA sounds like a good idea to me, too, but as a UA alumnus and donor, and an Ohio resident and taxpayer, I demand due diligence which I don’t see with this proposal. I don’t want a football team practicing on Cub Cadet Field, but this goes well beyond that. Dr. Scarborough, in his Investiture speech, mentioned the value of public universities (better than the Harvards and other universities who only take the top 10%) because it is their mission to give everyone an opportunity at the American dream of bettering our lives. An education at The University of Akron teaches a student to think critically allowing him/her to wade through the bombardment of information he/she encounters daily and decipher what matters. In this debate on ZN.o I've realized the power that we have as Ohio residents. UA's leaders, as employees of a public institution, owe us answers. They possess some data that is not publicly discernable, but much of what they possess is. Don't wait for the ABJ if you have a substantial concern. Public records have to be provided to us as Ohio residents and taxpayers. Browns TC - UA PR Response.pdf

Might have been nice, but no. I was in my usual front row seat and focused on the match and players. I didn't even notice Dr. Scarborough and his family were there. I'm happy to hear they were. As soon as I can get it in a shape to post and remember how to post a pdf, I'll provide the UA public records officer's response to my public records inquiry. There's a couple of items in there that I find troubling as far as planning or lack thereof and soliciting endorsements for Browns training camp. They're public records, you're all entitled to see them. Sorry for the delay. They have some personal information of mine on them, and I need time to remove that properly before I post in a public forum. I'll mention my concerns when I post. Certainly I welcome everyone's thoughts on the materials, my concerns, and the UA responses.

I'd like to say also that Friday was the first time I have spoken with Dr. Scarborough. I was pleased that he was mingling and talking with anyone at the reception who wanted to talk with him. I appreciated speaking with him. Also, it turned out that his Investiture was anything but boring. He wanted it to be a celebration of The University of Akron, and it was. Kudos to him and those who organized it. I learned things from the ceremony and his investiture speech that I did not know about UA, its symbols, and its contributions to the nation and the world. If Dr. Scarborough's actions match the words in his speech, UA is in great hands. He could match or even exceed the accomplishments of the previous president.

+1 You're right Dave, and maybe I should have just stated what Dr. Scarborough told me. I wasn't trying to provoke anyone on the board with my comments. I was venting my frustration over what I saw on the football field (IS-SF) yesterday. Like others, though, I realize it was just one game and the Zips still have a lot of work to do. I still believe that Terry Bowden will bring us a winner in time. Zips FB is still undefeated in the MAC. Win the MAC this year, and move on to greater glory next year and the year after. Steps not leaps, unfortunately because we were so far down before TB arrived. Nice 3-0 win by the mens soccer team vs Tulsa. Three wins in a row to build off of. I'm sure every Zip fan here would love to see mens soccer defeat tOSU in Columbus on Wednesday night. GO ZIPS!

+1 Lose big, lose small, win small, win the MAC, win big.

This a day old: At the reception prior to his investiture I spoke with Dr. Scarborough. He came across very cordially and told me not to worry. The Browns Training Camp is going to Columbus. I don't know how he knows that, but that is what he told me. After watching that debacle at Infocision Stadium-Summa Field today, I wondered if maybe the AD wants to offer our football stadium to the Can't State Golden Flashes for their practices or maybe inner city Cleveland High School games. More eyes on campus you know. By the way, the Zips Mens Soccer Team defeated Tulsa 3-0 today. Nice shutout on a beautiful evening with seemingly more Zips fans than showed up at Infocision. Too bad Tom and Terry (never realized before how close that is to Tom and Jerry) don't concentrate on making our Zips FB team better rather than lame brain ideas for other uses of our successful soccer team's facility. I guess FB wants to spread the misery around. Before any Zips FB fans on ZN.o get all pissed off at my comments go read your comments in the football forum. I'm every bit as disturbed by what I witnessed at Infocision today as any of you. I, too, looked for iCoach on the sideline. As a football season ticket holder and alumnus, I'm entitled to complain about our team in my way as much as any of you. I'll also add if anyone might think that I or anyone else on ZN.o had an effect on the Browns decision, dismiss it now. As I'm sure most of you know, we unfortunately don't have that much power. The Browns look out for the Browns. They could care less about UA. If anyone here or at UA believes otherwise they're crazy. Jimmy Haslam didn't get where he is caring about things such as a nearby university. I'm sure he's looking to expand the Browns presence as much as possible. He's already got Akron locked up if you look at that Facebook map. Columbus is the largest city in Ohio, and I'm sure he wants to ensure the Browns influence there and in surrounding areas. It comes down to numbers and what is best for the Browns.