GP1

Don't forget Northwestern.... Normally, I don't like to put much into wins or loses in bowl games, but the destruction of the Big Ten today was pretty complete. Michigan got killed and is a joke. MSU must not have known there was a game today. PSU lost to a very average Florida team (I was really pulling for Paterno to get a win in this game). Wisconsin lost to a non-BCS team that runs a modern offense and not one from 20 years ago. Northwestern actually played well and their game was fun to watch, but they don't have enough good players. Put some better players on Northwestern, with that offense, and they win a lot of games. The darling of the Big Ten plays in a few days. We'll see if they put the cherry on top of this crap cake the Big Ten served up today.

Actually, both Arkansas and tOSU are overrated. With that said, tOSU is a better team than Arkansas and should win. Big day on the ground for tOSU. Like I said, be careful using bowl results as evidence for how good your conference/team is. It makes for fun discussion on ESPN in pre-game hype shows, but bowls aren't a good place to prove it. I went to the Car Care Bowl yesterday. Talk about a couple of teams who could have cared less about the outcome of the game... If any of us listens to guys who have coached in bowl games, they tend to say the same thing (I was at the USF party Thursday night at Whis. River and Skip Holtz gave these exact goals on his radio show). The two primary goals of the team are to: 1. Get practice in for next season. 2. Support the seniors in their last game. If you notice, both of those goals do not involve winning as their top goal. USF and Clemson both looked like two teams going into a spring game. The players were not emotional when they ran out for the game and the sidelines throughout the game were not emotional. The fans were more hungover than excited. Coaches call a bunch of trick plays they would never call during the regular season. I know fans like to think that the players are "ready to play every down and defend their conference" in bowl games, but most are beat down by their coaches for a month before the game and are ready for a break. USF and Clemson looked like they were looking forward to the game being over and not the game. I see this every year when I go to the Car Care Bowl. There is a different vibe and it isn't very exciting. The only fun thing about the game yesterday was watching the stupid hicks that are Clemson fans get upset at the results. The only bowl game that teams come out ready to play is the BCS Championship.

Yep. I don't see how Pitt can keep him or why they would want to keep him. This is a stupid, stupid, stupid man. Two things....First, don't get jailed the Friday before a holiday weekend. There are no judges around to hear your case so you sit in jail all weekend in the drunk tank. Second, when you come into around $1.0 million, let your lawyers talk to your baby momma/baby momma's lawyers. You can afford the lawyers now. He had to know this woman was going to try to shake him down when his salary went from $175,000 to whatever it is a Pitt. Actually, this is a good demonstration case for how insane some college football coaches are. They live in a strange world where it is encouraged that you be a prick. They also live in a world where it is encouraged to work 24/7. That is not natural or even good for the people doing it. This guy is a prick and it worked at Miami on the football field. Being a prick didn't work off the field in this case. Some of these guys can't turn it off...see the coach of the Raiders.

This is just too funny. Buckzips is such a loser I don't even know where to begin....He is as mentally unstable as Notre Dame fan was ten years ago.....At least he is an expert on penis size....maybe that counts for something on tOSU boards.....I don't know and I don't care. Have a Happy New Year everyone.

Trips down Memory Lane are always fun. The Browns 2.0 get their one victory every five years against the Steelers and the fans gloat. Then they bring up the past when the Baltimore Ravens blew out the Steelers. That was before Cowher coached Pittsburgh and he was the coach for 15 years. I'd go as far as to say we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the NFL had done the right thing and not given Cleveland back a team after they moved to Baltimore.

Yes, literally.

This is not a tough one for me. Beating Can't is the answer not just intellectually, but also emotionally. I hate Can't and I honestly think the school is a joke. They are best know for the kids being killed in the 1970s...that is just pathetic. Intellectually, I also want to win our division. Beating Can't is one step closer in that race. In reality, even if God willed Can't to beat us five straight years, gravity of Can't's sucking would somehow allow us to win 4 of 5.

I saw the same thing on TV. All of that took place and I'm sure your written evaluation of the Browns QB situation will be appreciated by the front office. I'm sure they get thousands a week from Fantasy Footballers and they take them very seriously. You also mention Troy Aikman in your post. I'm old enough to remember this Hall of Fame QB in his first season at Dallas. You could have said the same thing about him. By no means do I think McCoy is a Hall of Famer, but he can be a good player. He has to get better, but everyone has to get better in the NFL or the league catches up with you. If they could get some better players around him (attention Browns fans, Touchdown Tommy Hilis is not the answer), they could win more than they lose or at least go .500 within 2-3 years. Who are we kidding?........By then, Browns fan will have run him out of Cleveland for the next hot prospect. The last time I went to a Browns game in Cleveland that close to Christmas was the Christmas Eve Massacre vs the Steelers. My wife and I were laughing at that game this morning while driving home from Hilton Head. We had club level seats behind the Browns bench. Literally, we had an entire section to ourselves half way through the fourth quarter.

I don't hate tOSU. I'm indifferent and unemotional about them. If you read my post, I point out how smart Tressel is in guiding his program. Nobody creates a better illusion. tOSU has good players and is obviously a better program than UofA. I also know what goes on in Columbus has little impact on the Zips. I also believe that Tressel is ducking good competition because he knows what would happen if he played really good teams ooc.....they couldn't win and the four years vs. Texas/USC showed it. I was at the USC game in Los Angeles. They didn't just lose, they were humiliated and Tressel can't allow that to happen every year. If tOSU fell apart, it would be the end of the Big Ten as there is little substance to that conference. In ten years, tOSU fans will say, "In 2011, they played two BCS teams ooc." That's the illusion. Colorado and Miami are second rate BCS programs right now and everyone in Columbus knows it and that is why they are on the schedule. Colorado couldn't win CUSA. Miami's better days are in the past. What I hate are tOSU fans. In the past ten years, they have surpassed Notre Dame as the most obnoxious fans in college football. Mostly, I think they were always a strong second until Notre Dame fans had to admit how bad their program really is and they are in first place by default. The lengths their fans go to rationalize their program is odd. They are defensive in a way that Notre Dame fans were right before they realized there was nothing under the golden dome and Touchdown Jesus was nothing more than a mural of a Jewish guy in a white robe that happens to face towards their football stadium. I think that in many ways, the BCS failures have made them sort of an angry and defensive fan base. Their program has been rightly laughed at in recent years for BCS failures and their ooc schedule. That has to wear on fans. Hell, we saw the same sort of thing on this board with our MBB program. A couple of years ago, with the exception of a few intellectual giants, you didn't dare say a negative word about their schedule or MAC Championship failures or you were shouted down. Buckeye football fan is very similar in a paranoid way. For the record, I hate SEC fans as well. They are all a bunch of whiners who cry for penalties on every play. I'm hesitant to crown them or anyone else the best conference. The quality of a conference isn't just about who is at the top, it is also about who is at the bottom. The SEC has Vandy at the bottom....bad team in any conference. Vandy lost to Wake...Wake is terrible. I'm a huge fan of the Big 12. I think you see a lot of SEC type players with more physicality. You also see really good QBs in the Big 12 and I love watching good QBs play. Anyone see the Missouri/Iowa game last night? The Missouri QB was great right up until he blew the game with five minutes to go (he also had a costly red zone INT in the first half). Most close college football games are lost, not won. The PAC10 is unique in college football conferences and for that reason (and great QB play) I really like it. I caution anyone using bowl results as conclusive evidence as to how good a conference is. Use your eyes and brain while watching regular season games. Trust what you see. Use head to head match-ups in ooc play. I think the PAC 10 had a down year, yet they went 2-1 against the Big 10 ooc and could have easily gone 3-0 had Arizona State not gone Arizona State against at Wisconsin. I don't think Iowa ever rebounded from their loss to Arizona. Bill Cowher says that a team is most dangerous when they have confidence and momentum. Iowa loses confidence very easily and is shows in their body language....you saw that last night as well until Missouri handed them the game.

One thing tOSU fans are really good at is leaving out analysis about their team. While it is true all of the above is a fact, let's have a closer look. Of course they have played in more BCS games than anyone else. If they don't, there is something really wrong with their program. Their conference is a cakewalk and they don't play anyone ooc so of course they are going to end up in a BCS game. Even if they come in second in the Big Ten, they are a darling of the pollsters and will have a high enough ranking to land in a BCS game...this year for example. It's smoke and mirrors. They also do have a winning record in those games. The BCS started in 1998 and tOSU played and beat Texas A&M....sort of a big time program, but not really. In their next two BCS games, they beat Miami and K-State in 2002 and 2003.....Miami was once a big time program, but not now.....If they played in the Big Ten, Miami would probably be in the Legends Division as like the Big Ten they are living off of the past and the past is better than today. K-State had a good run, but not exactly a historically great program and would probably be in the Leaders Division. In 2005, tOSU beat ND. ND has not been good in 15 years. This game does not count. Now we move on to the really big boys. Florida, LSU and Texas.....loss, losss and loss.....SEC, SEC and Big 12. The SEC, Big 12 and PAC 10 are the top tier of conferences. tOSU really doesn't compete well against top tier teams. Throw in a 1-3 record against USC and Texas during this time period and the program looks even worse. They did do well against the MAC in the BCS years though going undefeated. Oregon was the best BCS win tOSU had since beating K-State in 2003. Too bad it takes them six years between big wins in bowl games. The analysis that a lot of people don't pay much attention to is the fact that Tressel has not been very good once his team was loaded with his players and not Cooper leftovers. He has been terrible in recent years. He is a smart guy though. You are an idiot if you thing Tressel is anything other than smart and savvy about how to schedule his games and how to make himself and the program look better than it really is. He knows the secret to his success is loading up the ooc schedule with MAC schools and teams from the Legends Divisions whose greatness has long passed....They play Miami next year. Miami hasn't been good for years, but everyone still thinks they are good. Tressel can't do anything about the Big Ten. It is what it is....the top second tier conference. That doesn't mean beating Big Ten teams shouldn't be laughed at though. It was once a leader, but now a legend of a conference. The intellectual masturbation even an average tOSU fan can perform upon themselves is art. BuckZip is more than your average fan, he is a honk. His level of intellectual masturbation about the program could be sold in art galleries in Ohio. I'll also say this. If tOSU doesn't beat Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl, there is really something wrong with tOSU. This is a second level SEC program they are playing. They didn't even win their division. Tressel has to be as nervous as the Wizard of Oz was when Dorthy et al were standing outside of the curtain. It will be interesting to see how tOSU responds to the recent events. My guess is it will not affect them as most of the players could really care less about off the field problems. If tOSU wins, fans around Ohio will be twitterpated. They won't understand it was no different than beating K-Stat or A&M, but who are we to throw cold water on anyone masturbating. Anyhow, I'm going to Hilton Head for a couple of days. Have a nice week.

OOC games are played in September. Hardly freezing cold in the north. Do northern teams not travel to the south in September because it is hot enough to rip you skin off? Please sight to me where is says football was meant to be played in cold weather. It seems to me that cheerleaders have to cover up their bodies in cold weather. Fans want to see mini-skirts and skin so football was meant to be played in warm weather. That is a fact I can get behind.

Agree 100%. I say this in all seriousness. The Big Ten is not a big time conference. It is the top confernce in the second tier of conferences. It falls somewhere between the PAC10 and the ACC. Like I said before. Tressel badly needs to win the Sugar Bowl If they lose against Arkansas, they will have once again made fools of themselves. Lastly in regards to rivals.com, etc. I can't believe anyone takes them seriously.

Good post wadscarman. I hope you and your family are doing well. Merry Christmas. In terms of your last point, it does open up the potential for bad business decisions on the part of the business owner. However, people get all sorts of jobs for all sorts of reasons. There are people in corporate America grossly overcompensated for their efforts yet everyone looks the other way because it is legal. A college athlete getting paid for a job allows the payment to be above table and in the public. It allows the employee to accept money in a legal manner as earnings have to be reported to the IRS. Right now, under the table money is not reported making these people actual criminals. At the end of the day, nobody was hurt by what the tOSU players did or their reasoning behind what they did. Everyone is doing what these kids did and college football gets more popular every year. If student athlets get paid, college football would not be hurt and would continue to become more popular. There isn't a starter on the tOSU football team, or any other similar level team, that pays for a drink when he walks into a bar in their city....they are getting $20 handshakes all the time...the amount of money passed around to high level student athletes is huge and will continue..It did not change the performance of the team. I was watching the 30 for 30 story on SMU again this morning. It is a must see for anyone interested in paying college athletes. Eric Dickerson received a sports car while being recruited in high school by an A&M recuiter (a private person from A & M making a bad decision is OK with me). Let's say SMU did give it to him. Some might say that's terrible. I say, "Is that all"? The amount of money that guy made for SMU while he was in school was huge. They were a national championship contender. The least they could have done was give him a $18,000 car in exchange for his services that made them millions and made people take notice of SMU. Some say, "But GP1, they get a full scholarship so they are being compensated." OK, let's go down that road because there is a point of inequity here as well. Are all full scholarships equal? Of course not. It costs $50,000 per year to go to Wake Forest. I don't know what a full scholarship is at tOSU or UofA, but I'm sure it is not $50,000. Should the ncaa make it so that a player can only get the average of all grant in aids? Some at Wake would have to take money out of their pockets to make Wake Forest millions. If your school is below the average, should the players get cash compensation to the average grant in aid level? What the NCAA does with all of their rules is the same thing the IRS does with the tax code. There are so many tax laws now we have all become law breakers. The NCAA has so many laws that every school has become a rule breaker. Reforming the tax code would allow all of us to more freely have money. Reforming the NCAA to allow for players to get jobs would allow schools to concentrate on important things like winning or getting these kids closer to graduation.

Tressel is not a virtuous man. None of them are. He knows, as well as everyone else out there, that he can't win without four of the five guys. He also knows that losing to yet another SEC team would heap only laughter upon tOSU. He can't let that happen. He's doing the right thing for the program. We really don't know is what KD and JD would do in this situation. Going to the BCS is like making the Sweet 16 in basketball. If we were good enough to either make a BCS game or the Sweet 16, it would be interesting to see how JD or KD would react (I know, JD isn't the coach). My guess is they would take the same direction Tressel did. I would hope so anyhow. I just wish we were good enough to make a BCS game or Sweet 16. In the end, this isn't going to hurt tOSU. If Pryor and the RB go to the NFL, nothing is lost. They have a really good QB coming in next year and they have plenty of RB depth to have a good team again next year. They have another Adams right behind him if Adams goes to the NFL (probably not ready yet, but why not if you are going to miss half of a season). This punishment is meaningless to tOSU. They will march right through a poor ooc schedule and have their new guys ready for MSU. I always say that the top 40 college football teams should leave the NCAA and start their own league. This case is why that should happen. We all know the ncaa is a joke, but this is sort of the icing on the cake. It is meaningless and if it is meaningless, then why be a part of it? The bcs level schools can do whatever they want and if they got away from the ncaa, they might be even more successful. It might be best for the non-bcs school not to be party to this. Reform would bring some sanity back into college athletics.

There is no doubt the rules were broken. I have no idea whether the players knew or not and that doesn't matter. Let's get back to the Cadillac analogy. Instead of a player being given a car, what if that player agreed to spend three house at the dealership signing autographs? In exchange for the time, the player is given a car. Payment for services rendered is what I call that. Some also call payment for services rendered a "job". Kid signs autographs. Dealership advertises to all jock sniffers in Columbus that Jock X is going to be signing autographs at dealership. A certain number of jock sniffers buy car from dealership as a result of trip to dealership to sniff jock. Jock gets car for service. Dealership sells more cars as a result of advertising cost (car to jock). Jock sniffers get to sniff jock and some buy new car. Everyone wins and nothing illegal has taken place. God bless America.

Because you would ahve boosters paying out exhobbitant amounts of money for crap. Kid needs some spending money? Sell your used gum wrapper for $5k. Want a new car? Have a booster buy your old pair of shoes for $15k. This is why players can't sell things. It would devolve into stupidity. Stupidity is not illegal. People buy all sorts of things that I consider stupid, but the person buying it feels it is worth the money. It isn't up to you or me to decide what is or isn't worth buying and then tell someone they can't sell it because someone else is stupid for buying it. If a jock sniffer wants to buy a stupid pair of gold pants for $10,000, then who are we to say he can't. There is value in it to that person.

How do you know it isn't about helping their families for some of them? I agree it is all about money. The only people not making the money they deserve are the people doing the actual work that makes the schools the money. I don't think paying players will bring the NCAA down, and if that did happen, why would that be a bad thing? The NCAA needs to reform itself. The answer is not the schools paying the players. The answer is allowing the players to go out and earn money while on scholarship. What is wrong with a player selling his jersey or a ring or some stupid pair of gold pants to some jock sniffer who is stupid enough to pay for them? To me, that is the type of entrepreneurial behavior a kid should learn in college.

Take out taxes and you are looking at around $2,300. Remember, this is tops on what they could earn if you take into consideration max 30 hours and a relatively high paying job for a non-skilled employee at $8.00 per hour. That's only at best around $44 per week. One needs a car to get to work, etc.? The average price of gas is $3.00 per gal. Basically, the kid is paying to fill his car up to go to work. If these amounts of money were acceptable, players would never leave early to go professional or sell what they have. They would stay in college and live high off the hog on their $44 per week. I also believe the players when they say they wanted to help their families. It all goes back to my main point about the life a lot of college players come from and how a lot of fans really don't understand how bad it is. Like it or not, a lot of the player have children that need food, etc. They love their families and are not going to abandon them when the family needs money. I would hope none of us would abandon our families. A guy can't go out and get a job to help support his family? That is just wrong. The rules were put in place years ago and need to be changed to accommodate the change in society. What the players at tOSU are guilty of is breaking a lot of really stupid rules.

It is against NCAA rules. Proposition 62 has allowed student-athletes to work during the school year since 1998. Furthermore, they have been allowed to work in the summer. "The new Proposition 62 goes into effect on August 1998. It should be made clear that without it, players had the ability to work in the summer which some people may argue was enough. " True. However, you said it was not against the rules to get a job. It is during the school year. It is not reasonable for a student athlete to hold a 40 hour a week job down during the summer. Between summer classes and workouts, their time is restricted. I figure at most a student athlete could work 30 hours a week during the summer. 12 weeks x 30 hours = 360 hours. They could probably get a job paying around $8 per hour at best. 360 hours x $8/hour = $2,880 at best. Take taxes out of that and it isn't much money. They could do much better on the autograph tour or public appearance tour.

Strange.

These players are going to play because there is huge money involved in BCS games. If tOSU was in the Outback Bowl, the guys wouldn't play. The Sugar Bowl is the only game on TV at that time. There are huge commercial deals sold for these games. The NCAA and BCS does not want Arkansas to have a 21 point spread at half and lose half the TV audience. Add this to the many reasons college is about money and not the BS the NCAA spouts off. No go out Pryor, et al and earn some more money for the the NCAA, your schools and the BCS, but you can't have any. There is something really, really wrong and unjust with big time colllege football.

Part of findings of the NCAA was tOSU did not provide enough compliance education. At that point, is it the players fault or the schools fault? I like to take a person at his word. These players said they did not know what they were doing was a violation against NCAA rules. That doesn't make them innocent, it makes them poorly informed and not stupid. I actually believe they didn't know. There are entirely too many NCAA rules and it has turned everyone into a violator of the rules. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that every school in the country has at least one player on it who is watching this news and is worried about something he sold. It is moronic that these guys can't sell their gold pants for example. They freaking own them and should be allowed to do whatever they want with them. Same with the Big Ten Championship rings. If there is some jock sniffer out there stupid enough to buy one of these items, then so be it.

Tressel still has knee pain from his recruiting of Pryor.

I have several...... That concludes my comments.

I have no problems with it at all as long as the money is earned legally and the players live up to their obligations to the university. You and I have the same right to earn money. I think it would be good for college football to get all of the money above the table. This story about tOSU is terrible for college football and there are stories just like this at other institutions waiting to come out. They are adults and should be treated as such.