GP1 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 well be realistic, if there isn't a new arena in 10 years, someone dropped the ball. Either the team for sucking and not drawing fans, or the Athletics dept. for not building this team an arena.As it stands right now, we do not need a new arena. As awful as the JAR is, it is not sold out except for a couple of games a year. When seasons start to get sold out, then they should look at building a new arena. There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". They might come for a season or two, but when the excitment ends over a new arena, the big crowds will end. Let's see what football attendance is in three years. The last thing UofA needs is a top notch bb program with a 9,000 seat arena that sits half full for 80% of the home games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Casual discussions about the various merits of multiple good options generally do not generate bitter contentiousness unless someone tries to turn it into a do-or-die battle. The main area of disagreement here appears to be the concept that one of the solutions is so vastly superior to the other that a crusade must be waged to prevent the "wrong" decision from being made. War rarely achieves all the goals for which it was initiated, but it always produces collateral damage.I think the biggest area of agreement in this discussion is that most of us seem to be open to either an on-campus or close-to-campus downtown location as long as it's done right. It's not worth fighting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 well be realistic, if there isn't a new arena in 10 years, someone dropped the ball. Either the team for sucking and not drawing fans, or the Athletics dept. for not building this team an arena.As it stands right now, we do not need a new arena. As awful as the JAR is, it is not sold out except for a couple of games a year. When seasons start to get sold out, then they should look at building a new arena. There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". They might come for a season or two, but when the excitment ends over a new arena, the big crowds will end. Let's see what football attendance is in three years. The last thing UofA needs is a top notch bb program with a 9,000 seat arena that sits half full for 80% of the home games.like I said, in 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu9697 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 well be realistic, if there isn't a new arena in 10 years, someone dropped the ball. Either the team for sucking and not drawing fans, or the Athletics dept. for not building this team an arena.As it stands right now, we do not need a new arena. As awful as the JAR is, it is not sold out except for a couple of games a year. When seasons start to get sold out, then they should look at building a new arena. There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". They might come for a season or two, but when the excitment ends over a new arena, the big crowds will end. Let's see what football attendance is in three years. The last thing UofA needs is a top notch bb program with a 9,000 seat arena that sits half full for 80% of the home games.The problem is that the JAR has to be one of the worst designed bball arenas out there. The "track" in front of so many seats is beyond ridiculous. It would be like putting light poles IN FRONT of seating at a football stadium (but actually, worse). In this modern day of technology and building advancements, I see no reason why we cannot build an arena that can be "adjusted" by the event. So many teams/arenas use curtains. Perhaps a well designed "curtain system" would allow the ability to have a 12,000 facility for all events (larger concerts, NCAA tourney games, Cavaliers pre-season games, hockey or minor league Indoor Soccer) become a 7,000 seat venue for Akron b-ball (until the need arises for something bigger) and smaller concerts. If you have been to a CSU game, they obviously have done that (the curtain) for makeshift reasons. But I see no reason why you can't design a place that works like that. Heck, the Q looks pretty good for tourney games, and even Syracuse uses a curtain for basketball at the Dome. Once again, if you design with this in mind, it is my full belief it can work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Let's at least wait to see how they're renovating the JAR.An on-campus arena will take longer to plan for than a joint one. However, it might be worth the wait if it means doing it right. We would have to wait for the development of the Greek Village and a few more pending projects to see how the campus is shaping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 There's no reason not to simultaneously discuss how to improve the current facility to draw more fans, how to expand the facility if more fans start showing up, and how and where to build an even larger future facility if the program's popularity continues to rise. All three require advance planning, with an all-new facility requiring the most advanced planning. So it's never too early to start talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 [in this modern day of technology and building advancements, I see no reason why we cannot build an arena that can be "adjusted" by the event. So many teams/arenas use curtains. Perhaps a well designed "curtain system" would allow the ability to have a 12,000 facility for all events (larger concerts, NCAA tourney games, Cavaliers pre-season games, hockey or minor league Indoor Soccer) become a 7,000 seat venue for Akron b-ball (until the need arises for something bigger) and smaller concerts. If you have been to a CSU game, they obviously have done that (the curtain) for makeshift reasons. But I see no reason why you can't design a place that works like that. Heck, the Q looks pretty good for tourney games, and even Syracuse uses a curtain for basketball at the Dome. Once again, if you design with this in mind, it is my full belief it can work.They could call it White Elephant Arena..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu9697 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 [in this modern day of technology and building advancements, I see no reason why we cannot build an arena that can be "adjusted" by the event. So many teams/arenas use curtains. Perhaps a well designed "curtain system" would allow the ability to have a 12,000 facility for all events (larger concerts, NCAA tourney games, Cavaliers pre-season games, hockey or minor league Indoor Soccer) become a 7,000 seat venue for Akron b-ball (until the need arises for something bigger) and smaller concerts. If you have been to a CSU game, they obviously have done that (the curtain) for makeshift reasons. But I see no reason why you can't design a place that works like that. Heck, the Q looks pretty good for tourney games, and even Syracuse uses a curtain for basketball at the Dome. Once again, if you design with this in mind, it is my full belief it can work.They could call it White Elephant Arena.....A post made for Ohio.com for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu9697 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Let's at least wait to see how they're renovating the JAR.An on-campus arena will take longer to plan for than a joint one. However, it might be worth the wait if it means doing it right. We would have to wait for the development of the Greek Village and a few more pending projects to see how the campus is shaping up.Are they really renovating it? I heard mention once, nothing since. Unless they find a way to eliminate seats blocked by the track, no renovation will be good enough. Not to mention, the best basketball arenas have chairback where us old people sit (35 years old with a 65 year old back right here!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Are they really renovating it? I heard mention once, nothing since. Unless they find a way to eliminate seats blocked by the track, no renovation will be good enough. Not to mention, the best basketball arenas have chairback where us old people sit (35 years old with a 65 year old back right here!).It says on the job listing for the AD position that we're renovating the basketball arena and soccer stadium, so I'm assuminging that it was referrencing the JAR being re-done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Are they really renovating it? I heard mention once, nothing since. Unless they find a way to eliminate seats blocked by the track, no renovation will be good enough. Not to mention, the best basketball arenas have chairback where us old people sit (35 years old with a 65 year old back right here!).It says on the job listing for the AD position that we're renovating the basketball arena and soccer stadium, so I'm assuminging that it was referrencing the JAR being re-done.That doesn't mean the seating area. Look around the JAR it houses athletics offices and locker rooms. There are a lot of things that can be renovated. The elevators are death traps, the Tommy Evans Lounge is as dirty and nasty as a Tallmadge Avenue strip club. The AD offices are as warm and inviting as the BMV. Realize that no matter what, (new arena or not) the JAR probably stays. We need a place for volleyball to practice and play, it can be easily retrofitted for Rifle, and we need the space for "gym credits" Kung Fu, Karate, Golf etc. once Memorial Hall get's torn down. The soccer field renovations include a new pitch. And should include a total tear down and rebuild of the grand stands. But that is another topic all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 well be realistic, if there isn't a new arena in 10 years, someone dropped the ball. Either the team for sucking and not drawing fans, or the Athletics dept. for not building this team an arena.As it stands right now, we do not need a new arena. As awful as the JAR is, it is not sold out except for a couple of games a year. When seasons start to get sold out, then they should look at building a new arena. There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". They might come for a season or two, but when the excitment ends over a new arena, the big crowds will end. Let's see what football attendance is in three years. The last thing UofA needs is a top notch bb program with a 9,000 seat arena that sits half full for 80% of the home games."There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". "UA built a new stadium based on the evidence you refute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Casual discussions about the various merits of multiple good options generally do not generate bitter contentiousness unless someone tries to turn it into a do-or-die battle. The main area of disagreement here appears to be the concept that one of the solutions is so vastly superior to the other that a crusade must be waged to prevent the "wrong" decision from being made. War rarely achieves all the goals for which it was initiated, but it always produces collateral damage.I think the biggest area of agreement in this discussion is that most of us seem to be open to either an on-campus or close-to-campus downtown location as long as it's done right. It's not worth fighting over.Part of doing it right is to put it on campus and not downtown, but thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 "There is no long term evidence in sports proving that "if you build it, they will come". "UA built a new stadium based on the evidence you refute.Only partly. If you classified it as, "If you have a falling down, unsafe disaster of a stadium in Ellet and you build it, they will come."I think the Zips are going to have great crowds this coming season and through next season. A lot needs to happen for that trend to continue after the first two seasons IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Let's at least wait to see how they're renovating the JAR.An on-campus arena will take longer to plan for than a joint one. However, it might be worth the wait if it means doing it right. We would have to wait for the development of the Greek Village and a few more pending projects to see how the campus is shaping up.Are they really renovating it? I heard mention once, nothing since. Unless they find a way to eliminate seats blocked by the track, no renovation will be good enough. Not to mention, the best basketball arenas have chairback where us old people sit (35 years old with a 65 year old back right here!). UA won't wait forever for Greek Village to develop. UA is buying up land in that area so that the chapters may choose to buy lots from UA to build new Greek Housing if they so desire. If they don't bite, then UA will do something else with the land they bought according to Ted Curtis. It's up to the individual chapters to make the move. If they snooz, they lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 [i think the Zips are going to have great crowds this coming season and through next season. A lot needs to happen for that trend to continue after the first two seasons IMHO.C'mon GP1, when have you ever had a humble opinion? And Jake, for gosh sakes is your last name Off or are you like the son of a trustee with land to unload? We got it, you're for an on-campus arena and feel that anything else would be a huge mistake. Others see it differently. Move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 [i think the Zips are going to have great crowds this coming season and through next season. A lot needs to happen for that trend to continue after the first two seasons IMHO.C'mon GP1, when have you ever had a humble opinion? And Jake, for gosh sakes is your last name Off or are you like the son of a trustee with land to unload? We got it, you're for an on-campus arena and feel that anything else would be a huge mistake. Others see it differently. Move on.You might want to try reading your own post and taking your own advise. Also. check out the title of this thread. It is about location. Now calm down before you give yourself a nose bleed. And please cool it with your obsene posts. You need to learn how to be more comfortable with opinion which differ from your own. Now I strongly suggest you move on and stop being so hateful and abusive.Build the arena on campus where it should be. Bars and restaurants are just as accessible from an on-campus arena in the east quad. Downtown is not the only place people go to after a UA event. Virtues in City Hospital is much closer to the east end of campus. So are other restaurants and bars that are not downtown. Many people like to drive out to Ken Stewarts, Larry's and other places outside of downtown. UA is about the entire community and region and not just downtown and downtown bars. It's more about campus and university pride than it is about closeness to Galluci Hall. Also, you will have far more UA students living in the new multiplex dorms next to the stadium than Galluci. That coupled with the north quad dorms makes an east campus arena much more practical especially when one considers that UA will have all of its sports and phys ed facilitates in the same area. If you put the arena downtown, city hall will just get away with convincing people that it isn't a UA facility just like they do now with E.J. Thomas HallSo far, the poll indicates, 44 in favor of an on-campus arena and 12 in favor of an off-campus arena. Looks like the overwhelming majority on Zips Nation.Org want an on-campus arena. Same goes for UA Alumni and students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Jake, A little "advice" (it's spelled with a c, advise is a verb) for you. You've been on this board for a whole month, you've posted pretty much on one topic and attacked pretty much anybody who disagreed with you. I really couldn't care less where they build a new arena as long as it meets the University's needs, but it is fun to debate. I will admit, however, going for the cheap laugh at your expense because you have presented a "villain" persona - maybe you want it that way? There are people who have been on this board for years. They generally have civil discussions even when they disagree (and at some point they simply agree to disagree), occasionallly it gets ugly. You seem to attract that on many of your posts. Some good natured ribbing (like saying GP1 has not had a humble opinion - I'll bet he gets that reference and maybe even was mildly amused by it, as he occasionally will post as the "great" GP1) happens too. People need to not take themsleves or what we discuss too seriously, after all it's a fan board that truly affects very little about our lives. You might want to lighten up.Good day sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Jake, A little "advice" (it's spelled with a c, advise is a verb) for you. You've been on this board for a whole month, you've posted pretty much on one topic and attacked pretty much anybody who disagreed with you. I really couldn't care less where they build a new arena as long as it meets the University's needs, but it is fun to debate. I will admit, however, going for the cheap laugh at your expense because you have presented a "villain" persona - maybe you want it that way? There are people who have been on this board for years. They generally have civil discussions even when they disagree (and at some point they simply agree to disagree), occasionallly it gets ugly. You seem to attract that on many of your posts. Some good natured ribbing (like saying GP1 has not had a humble opinion - I'll bet he gets that reference and maybe even was mildly amused by it, as he occasionally will post as the "great" GP1) happens too. People need to not take themsleves or what we discuss too seriously, after all it's a fan board that truly affects very little about our lives. You might want to lighten up.Good day sir!Again, sir. take your own advice and lighten up yourself. Growing big over little things like my typo is a clear indicator that you have a hostile streak and that you need to get over yourself. Stop making dishonest accusations about my attacking people when it is you who have done so. I take responsibility for my own behavior and no one elses. I assume you and others on this board are adults. I suggest you start acting like ones. Good day, mam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UADavid Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 This thread has run it's course and I recommend and vote to lock it. No new ground to cover here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinZip Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 This thread has run it's course and I recommend and vote to lock it. No new ground to cover here.But it's really so funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbozeglav Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 my final contribution:trolls will be trolls... there's little we can do. I agree to completely disagree with you, Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 When no progress is being made, there may be a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Roo Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I would like to suggest the moderators close this thread. It is not serving the needs of Zipsnation and has devolved into a spiteful attack on anyone who disagrees with the protagonists. Please end this. It's way below the standards we want to project. End it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Jake, A little "advice" (it's spelled with a c, advise is a verb) for you. You've been on this board for a whole month, you've posted pretty much on one topic and attacked pretty much anybody who disagreed with you. I really couldn't care less where they build a new arena as long as it meets the University's needs, but it is fun to debate. I will admit, however, going for the cheap laugh at your expense because you have presented a "villain" persona - maybe you want it that way? There are people who have been on this board for years. They generally have civil discussions even when they disagree (and at some point they simply agree to disagree), occasionallly it gets ugly. You seem to attract that on many of your posts. Some good natured ribbing (like saying GP1 has not had a humble opinion - I'll bet he gets that reference and maybe even was mildly amused by it, as he occasionally will post as the "great" GP1) happens too. People need to not take themsleves or what we discuss too seriously, after all it's a fan board that truly affects very little about our lives. You might want to lighten up.Good day sir!Again, sir. take your own advice and lighten up yourself. Growing big over little things like my typo is a clear indicator that you have a hostile streak and that you need to get over yourself. Stop making dishonest accusations about my attacking people when it is you who have done so. I take responsibility for my own behavior and no one elses. I assume you and others on this board are adults. I suggest you start acting like ones. Good day, mam!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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