Attendance - Where is it going?

[skip-zip]

I had a lot of discussions with people Saturday night concerning attendance. I'm interested in any thoughts, and welcome the statistical followers on here to chime in.I started getting a little concerned with the 2,000-ish numbers that were attending our non-league games. I felt that this number would jump once we started conference play, when the games became a little more meaningful, and we were playing some of the other Ohio MAC schools. BG vs. Akron - Approx. 3,000 (minus the no-shows)Some of the questons that were discussed:1) A decent jump from our non-conference attendance, but with it being a conference home opener, against another Ohio MAC school, does it still seem low?2) Can we attribute it to a very cold night?3) Can we attribute it to economic conditions such as families having less disposable income these days?4) Is this as good as it's going to get for home conference games (with the exception of Can't) ?5) The team is winning, so nobody I know can see that being an issue. I think some people expected a lot more with a MAC title, and the arrival of Zeke. But, how does a number like this really compare to attendance numbers for home conference games the last few years? And do the numbers tend to grow as the conference schedule progresses? I feel like our attendance, and local fan interest, last peaked during the Romeo/Dru/Wood era. But, maybe the numbers show me something else. Interested in any stats.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I...can...barely...summon..the..strength...to...lift...the...bat...

[Quickzips]

1.) Schedule some better teams both at home and on the road. You don't build local excitement over this team by playing Malone, St. Francis, Pine Bluff and Greensboro.2.) Don't lose early season games to mediocre teams like Austin Peay.3.) Don't schedule so many Sunday afternoon games against the Browns. You'll get the die hard Zips fans to the JAR for those games, but Joe Akron will be at home on his couch watching the Browns lose...again.4.) Don't piss down your leg every time you have a quality opponent on the ropes at home.5.) Give us a little better halftime entertainment. You can only watching 12 year olds jumproping and doing Irish dances so many times. Where is the red-panda lady when you need her?6.) Actually let the community know that the team is playing. Hasn't been very much of a push this year to advertise this team.7.) Implode the JAR and build a new family friendly arena with better concessions, restrooms, sight lines, seating, etc.That is about all I can come up with for now. Most of this, as Cap'n indicated has been hashed out on here over and over again.

[Zip_ME87]

Can someone add one of these with more horses and bats, specifically for this topic?

[ZachTheZip]

Joe Akron has been trained to only go to the MAC games. Those games are the ones that get the most media mentions, and they have the most intense atmosphere. The ONLY way to change that is to bring in a "name" program that everyone in NE Ohio recognizes and wants to see. There are only two of them, and neither will be coming to the JAR under any circumstances, ever. Those two are Ohio State and Cleveland State. You can schedule the entire A-10 at home, you can bring in Memphis or any MWC team, the MVC, it doesn't matter. They're not interesting to the insular and ignorant masses.

[MaxZIP]

We will just have to see when students return and we get rolling in the MAC.

[skip-zip]

1.) Schedule some better teams both at home and on the road. You don't build local excitement over this team by playing Malone, St. Francis, Pine Bluff and Greensboro.2.) Don't lose early season games to mediocre teams like Austin Peay.3.) Don't schedule so many Sunday afternoon games against the Browns. You'll get the die hard Zips fans to the JAR for those games, but Joe Akron will be at home on his couch watching the Browns lose...again.4.) Don't piss down your leg every time you have a quality opponent on the ropes at home.5.) Give us a little better halftime entertainment. You can only watching 12 year olds jumproping and doing Irish dances so many times. Where is the red-panda lady when you need her?6.) Actually let the community know that the team is playing. Hasn't been very much of a push this year to advertise this team.7.) Implode the JAR and build a new family friendly arena with better concessions, restrooms, sight lines, seating, etc.That is about all I can come up with for now. Most of this, as Cap'n indicated has been hashed out on here over and over again.

Quickzips...You know I already agree with many of your viewpoints on the direction we should go with our scheduling. But, these discussions I had with fellow fans were not on that topic at all.We were much more focused on how the economy might be impacting attendance, and seeing how our current trend this season might compare with the last few years.

[Quickzips]

1.) Schedule some better teams both at home and on the road. You don't build local excitement over this team by playing Malone, St. Francis, Pine Bluff and Greensboro.2.) Don't lose early season games to mediocre teams like Austin Peay.3.) Don't schedule so many Sunday afternoon games against the Browns. You'll get the die hard Zips fans to the JAR for those games, but Joe Akron will be at home on his couch watching the Browns lose...again.4.) Don't piss down your leg every time you have a quality opponent on the ropes at home.5.) Give us a little better halftime entertainment. You can only watching 12 year olds jumproping and doing Irish dances so many times. Where is the red-panda lady when you need her?6.) Actually let the community know that the team is playing. Hasn't been very much of a push this year to advertise this team.7.) Implode the JAR and build a new family friendly arena with better concessions, restrooms, sight lines, seating, etc.That is about all I can come up with for now. Most of this, as Cap'n indicated has been hashed out on here over and over again.

Quickzips...You know I already agree with many of your viewpoints on the direction we should go with our scheduling. But, these discussions I had with fellow fans were not on that topic at all.We were much more focused on how the economy might be impacting attendance, and seeing how our current trend this season might compare with the last few years.

I don't think the economy is having as much of an impact as one might think. If you look at the one common opponent so far from this year to last year the numbers are practically the same.BG Last year: 3175BG This year: 3028Now this might play out a little different as the season goes on, but I don't really think it will. I think the rest of the MAC home schedule will end up being right around 3K people with a sell out for the Can't game like always.The fact is that the Zips are still a pretty cheap night of entertainment for people. It might be a bit expensive if you want season tickets in the lower bowl, but general admission tickets for a family of four doesn't set you back any more than going to the movies with that same family of four really. I think it all comes down to marketing and putting together a product on the court that excites people. Give them a quality experience for the money they are spending and they will want to come back and spend more money with you.

[Hilltopper]

I don't think the economy is having as much of an impact as one might think. If you look at the one common opponent so far from this year to last year the numbers are practically the same.BG Last year: 3175BG This year: 3028Now this might play out a little different as the season goes on, but I don't really think it will. I think the rest of the MAC home schedule will end up being right around 3K people with a sell out for the Can't game like always.The fact is that the Zips are still a pretty cheap night of entertainment for people. It might be a bit expensive if you want season tickets in the lower bowl, but general admission tickets for a family of four doesn't set you back any more than going to the movies with that same family of four really. I think it all comes down to marketing and putting together a product on the court that excites people. Give them a quality experience for the money they are spending and they will want to come back and spend more money with you.

I have to disagree with you about the economy having no effect on attendance. I own a small service type business. We are seeing huge impact from the economy. Anything that is a luxury is seeing large decreases. Disposable income is at an alltime low right now. People are saving at the highest rates seen in decades. Even those people with secure employment are scaling back on spending. All entertainment related industries are taking big hits right now. Most are just trying to hang on, but there is little expected in the way of growth predicted for the next few years. If you don't believe me I can post links to dozens of news reports to back up my thinking.

[Quickzips]

I don't think the economy is having as much of an impact as one might think. If you look at the one common opponent so far from this year to last year the numbers are practically the same.BG Last year: 3175BG This year: 3028Now this might play out a little different as the season goes on, but I don't really think it will. I think the rest of the MAC home schedule will end up being right around 3K people with a sell out for the Can't game like always.The fact is that the Zips are still a pretty cheap night of entertainment for people. It might be a bit expensive if you want season tickets in the lower bowl, but general admission tickets for a family of four doesn't set you back any more than going to the movies with that same family of four really. I think it all comes down to marketing and putting together a product on the court that excites people. Give them a quality experience for the money they are spending and they will want to come back and spend more money with you.

I have to disagree with you about the economy having no effect on attendance. I own a small service type business. We are seeing huge impact from the economy. Anything that is a luxury is seeing large decreases. Disposable income is at an alltime low right now. People are saving at the highest rates seen in decades. Even those people with secure employment are scaling back on spending. All entertainment related industries are taking big hits right now. Most are just trying to hang on, but there is little expected in the way of growth predicted for the next few years. If you don't believe me I can post links to dozens of news reports to back up my thinking.

I'm well aware of what is going on in the entertainment industry right now. I spend a good deal of my time intricatly involved in it. The entertainment industry is most definitly suffering right now due to the economy, but it isn't because people don't want to be entertained anymore. People are simply looking for cheaper ways to be entertained. They are thinking twice about spending $40 a pop on those Browns tickets and are looking for a cheaper way to spend their afternoon. This is where the Zips can and should come into play. Adult GA for a Zips game is $10 a head, youth $7 a head. For a family of four that is $34. Prices for ONE single game ticket to a Browns game started at $32 this past season. The people you talk about who don't have a lot of disposable income and are scaling back on spending right now should be looking at that. The problem is that nobody within the University is really pointing it out to them.

[Captain Kangaroo]

In an attempt to offer one semi-fresh take on this topic -In a post-game interview last year, Dambrot stated - "We get 4,800 people here on Credit Union Night," and that game is played against a lousy opponent. You can't tell me it's (low attendance) only about scheduling."His point being - Someone, years ago, went out and built a relationship with the Credit Union. That game is always one of the best-attended games of the season. 4,500+ butts-in-seats is a given. For basketball - Who is going out now-a-days and building corporate relationships under the model of the Credit Union game? If people are going to point a finger at the schedule, the game results, the MAC or whatever...working with corporations and community groups to get more "<Insert Group Here> Night's" needs to be a focus too. It isn't like Credit Union members are some rabid group of hoops fans. What is successful with them can be successful at many other institutions.

[RootforRoo44]

Can someone add one of these with more horses and bats, specifically for this topic?

close enough

[Dave in Green]

Weather and the economy always play some role in entertainment event attendance of all kinds. I don't think the best statisticians can give us any more than a broad percentage range for each, so it would be unlikely that anyone on this forum could give anything remotely near specific percentages.I think most of us expected at least a little blip upward this year due to last season's MAC championship and NCAA tournament appearance. And I think most of us expected at least a little increased interest with the arrival of Zeke Marshall. But these potential small increases could easily be offset by other variables, including the economy and weather.Big attendance increases require either big changes over the short run or consistent excellence over the long run. For example, if the Zips had beaten all of this season's opponents by double digits and were creating a big national buzz, I have no doubt attendance would be up from what it is now. Likewise, if Zeke had magically transformed over the summer from a good HS player into a dominant D1 center averaging a triple double every game, the big national buzz would surely have resonated in Akron with increased attendance. Finally, if the Zips had started this season in a cool new arena, that would also have led to at least some increased attendance.Absent all of these big short-term changes, we're left with the long-term option of grinding out consistent excellence. That could be achieved by the Zips upsetting many higher-ranked teams they play, and being upset fewer times by lower-ranked teams. Or it could be achieved with a string of MAC championships and a couple of NCAA tournament upsets.But that's like watching an oak tree grow. If you come out and measure it every morning, you're bound to be disappointed at the growth rate. It takes years to build a consistent championship-caliber program the right way, with a coaching staff and players of good character. Calculating the exact rate of growth is purely speculative. But if you build the right kind of team and the right kind of facility, more fans will surely follow.

[Zipmeister]

In an attempt to offer one semi-fresh take on this topic -In a post-game interview last year, Dambrot stated - "We get 4,800 people here on Credit Union Night," and that game is played against a lousy opponent. You can't tell me it's (low attendance) only about scheduling."His point being - Someone, years ago, went out and built a relationship with the Credit Union. That game is always one of the best-attended games of the season. 4,500+ butts-in-seats is a given. For basketball - Who is going out now-a-days and building corporate relationships under the model of the Credit Union game? If people are going to point a finger at the schedule, the game results, the MAC or whatever...working with corporations and community groups to get more "<Insert Group Here> Night's" needs to be a focus too. It isn't like Credit Union members are some rabid group of hoops fans. What is successful with them can be successful at many other institutions.

Maybe we could set up something with ACME; we could call it the ACME-Zip game.

[lance99]

In an attempt to offer one semi-fresh take on this topic -In a post-game interview last year, Dambrot stated - "We get 4,800 people here on Credit Union Night," and that game is played against a lousy opponent. You can't tell me it's (low attendance) only about scheduling."His point being - Someone, years ago, went out and built a relationship with the Credit Union. That game is always one of the best-attended games of the season. 4,500+ butts-in-seats is a given. For basketball - Who is going out now-a-days and building corporate relationships under the model of the Credit Union game? If people are going to point a finger at the schedule, the game results, the MAC or whatever...working with corporations and community groups to get more "<Insert Group Here> Night's" needs to be a focus too. It isn't like Credit Union members are some rabid group of hoops fans. What is successful with them can be successful at many other institutions.

Maybe we could set up something with ACME; we could call it the ACME-Zip game.

There's an idea. Football need to look into that also

[Z.I.P.]

In an attempt to offer one semi-fresh take on this topic -In a post-game interview last year, Dambrot stated - "We get 4,800 people here on Credit Union Night," and that game is played against a lousy opponent. You can't tell me it's (low attendance) only about scheduling."His point being - Someone, years ago, went out and built a relationship with the Credit Union. That game is always one of the best-attended games of the season. 4,500+ butts-in-seats is a given. For basketball - Who is going out now-a-days and building corporate relationships under the model of the Credit Union game? If people are going to point a finger at the schedule, the game results, the MAC or whatever...working with corporations and community groups to get more "<Insert Group Here> Night's" needs to be a focus too. It isn't like Credit Union members are some rabid group of hoops fans. What is successful with them can be successful at many other institutions.

Maybe we could set up something with ACME; we could call it the ACME-Zip game.

There's an idea. Football need to look into that also

Well, at the risk of sounding like I'm hitting an old horse with a baseball bat...That idea shouldn't be so easily thrown away -- at least it should be studied (not to death on this board though, PLEASE!). The Credit Union Night gets a great crowd versus a crummy opponent whom most of the fans don't know or care about. The Info sells out vs an identical team (was it Morgan State or Stanley U., I forget?), but is barely half-full the next week vs a Big Ten opponent. So -- analyze: What type of marketing phenomena account for this? Is it the amount of marketing, the duration, or the populations that are hit up for attendance? Maybe you can let people in for three bucks with an Acme shopping bag! I think I've suggested this on here already: UA should do a "Grand Re-opening" event for the start of 2010 football. Most people wouldn't even notice it happened once before. Do you think we could pull that off for the JAR? Maybe not...

[skip-zip]

1.) Schedule some better teams both at home and on the road. You don't build local excitement over this team by playing Malone, St. Francis, Pine Bluff and Greensboro.2.) Don't lose early season games to mediocre teams like Austin Peay.3.) Don't schedule so many Sunday afternoon games against the Browns. You'll get the die hard Zips fans to the JAR for those games, but Joe Akron will be at home on his couch watching the Browns lose...again.4.) Don't piss down your leg every time you have a quality opponent on the ropes at home.5.) Give us a little better halftime entertainment. You can only watching 12 year olds jumproping and doing Irish dances so many times. Where is the red-panda lady when you need her?6.) Actually let the community know that the team is playing. Hasn't been very much of a push this year to advertise this team.7.) Implode the JAR and build a new family friendly arena with better concessions, restrooms, sight lines, seating, etc.That is about all I can come up with for now. Most of this, as Cap'n indicated has been hashed out on here over and over again.

Quickzips...You know I already agree with many of your viewpoints on the direction we should go with our scheduling. But, these discussions I had with fellow fans were not on that topic at all.We were much more focused on how the economy might be impacting attendance, and seeing how our current trend this season might compare with the last few years.

I don't think the economy is having as much of an impact as one might think. If you look at the one common opponent so far from this year to last year the numbers are practically the same.BG Last year: 3175BG This year: 3028Now this might play out a little different as the season goes on, but I don't really think it will. I think the rest of the MAC home schedule will end up being right around 3K people with a sell out for the Can't game like always.The fact is that the Zips are still a pretty cheap night of entertainment for people. It might be a bit expensive if you want season tickets in the lower bowl, but general admission tickets for a family of four doesn't set you back any more than going to the movies with that same family of four really. I think it all comes down to marketing and putting together a product on the court that excites people. Give them a quality experience for the money they are spending and they will want to come back and spend more money with you.

You may have missed something last year. There were only 4,100 people at the Can't home game. And I might be inclined to attribute it to the fact that we had them in a Jan. game, instead of the season finale. But, we had 5,600 in attendance for a Jan. home game against Can't State 2 years earlier.Could Romeo, Dru, and Wood, as local boys, really be the reason why we had that period of higher attendance? We even had announced crowds of 4,100 and 5,200 for games against OU and BG in the final two conference home games that same year. Just some more data for thought on conference home attendance trends.

[RACER]

i am in sales for a living.i have not seen one good idea from the akron sales/marketing dept. in along time.the acme zip game was a good one. c k is right on the money.you need to build relationships within corporations,and the community.get the coach and the players out into the community would be a good start.go to the major sponsors,and have the guys sign autographs,poster for thier employee's. ect. once a week. the main thing is get the team out to meet people,and you might be surprised how many people would come.kd complains about the attendace,but he does nothing sales/marleting wise to help.i don't mean have a meet the team one time a year.

[zipsbandman]

We're beating a dead horse. The MAC is irrelevant and we have sure done nothing tohelp the cause. I don't even go to nonconference games...for what? I likeintense games when there is something on the line. You'll see me in Cleveland and other conference games at the jar when they count, but Joe Akron ain't stupid.

[zen]

The people around here have sports-insecurities. They want to jump on a bandwagon and watch a winner.Except for the small segment of real sports fans (see above) who really just want to see a competitive game (and yes, a win), most people wont subject their fragile egos to anything but what they think is a sure-bet. *remembers all the empty seats at the Gund before LeBron was drafted*You can't counter that phenomenon with lower ticket prices. You can't fix it with cheap hype and billboards. If you have a good season, you may be able to get them to watch you on TV with beer and potato chips, but we aren't on TV.

[Zip Watcher]

The people around here have sports-insecurities. They want to jump on a bandwagon and watch a winner.Except for the small segment of real sports fans (see above) who really just want to see a competitive game (and yes, a win), most people wont subject their fragile egos to anything but what they think is a sure-bet. *remembers all the empty seats at the Gund before LeBron was drafted*You can't counter that phenomenon with lower ticket prices. You can't fix it with cheap hype and billboards. If you have a good season, you may be able to get them to watch you on TV with beer and potato chips, but we aren't on TV.

Interesting post .. I need to think about this perspective for a bit.Congratulations anyway for introducing a new thought to this topic for the first time in forever.Go Zips!!

[Hilltopper]

The people around here have sports-insecurities. They want to jump on a bandwagon and watch a winner.Except for the small segment of real sports fans (see above) who really just want to see a competitive game (and yes, a win), most people wont subject their fragile egos to anything but what they think is a sure-bet. *remembers all the empty seats at the Gund before LeBron was drafted*You can't counter that phenomenon with lower ticket prices. You can't fix it with cheap hype and billboards. If you have a good season, you may be able to get them to watch you on TV with beer and potato chips, but we aren't on TV.

I think you nailed it Zen. Joe fan in NEO needs the sure thing before they will commit to being loyal followers. All you have to do is read Zipsbandsman's post to see that very attitude.Zipsbandsman

We're beating a dead horse. The MAC is irrelevant and we have sure done nothing tohelp the cause. I don't even go to nonconference games...for what? I likeintense games when there is something on the line. You'll see me in Cleveland and other conference games at the jar when they count, but Joe Akron ain't stupid.

[skip-zip]

The people around here have sports-insecurities. They want to jump on a bandwagon and watch a winner.Except for the small segment of real sports fans (see above) who really just want to see a competitive game (and yes, a win), most people wont subject their fragile egos to anything but what they think is a sure-bet. *remembers all the empty seats at the Gund before LeBron was drafted*You can't counter that phenomenon with lower ticket prices. You can't fix it with cheap hype and billboards. If you have a good season, you may be able to get them to watch you on TV with beer and potato chips, but we aren't on TV.

I might also be a bit confused about your perspective here as well.If there has been one "constant" over the last several years, it's that we are winning. And winning often. Especially at home. About as close as you can get to a "sure bet" on most nights. And please don't let my comment start a "but we don't beat anyone good" discussion. Although I support such a position, I'm trying really hard to keep this as a discussion about changes/trends in attendance in the conference games that we have to play every year...and not our OOC scheduling.

[Quickzips]

The people around here have sports-insecurities. They want to jump on a bandwagon and watch a winner.Except for the small segment of real sports fans (see above) who really just want to see a competitive game (and yes, a win), most people wont subject their fragile egos to anything but what they think is a sure-bet. *remembers all the empty seats at the Gund before LeBron was drafted*You can't counter that phenomenon with lower ticket prices. You can't fix it with cheap hype and billboards. If you have a good season, you may be able to get them to watch you on TV with beer and potato chips, but we aren't on TV.

I'd like to know what you would consider a "sure thing." To me, right now the Zips are a "sure thing" and we certainly don't have great attendance. As much as it pains me to say it, Can't State for the last 10 years has been a "sure thing" and they haven't had great attendance. You are right that NEO sports fans are desperate for a winner, but I don't think this is a case of "if you build it they will come." It is more a case of "if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[ZachTheZip]

I agree with zen.They people want a winner. Not a winner of individual games, mind you, but a winner of meaningful championships. We need to win the MAC again this year. To win it once and then go back to being an also-ran in the MAC isn't going to do it. To win it twice in a row gets a bit of attention. To win it three times in a row shows consistency, and being a consistent winner is what will attract the people. To win it four times confirms their beliefs. Until there is a legitimate excuse for not winning the MAC i.e. a Gonzaga or a Memphis that dominates us and everyone else, then not winning the conference is seen as a failure and the mark of a losing team who can't get it done.