Fifth Day of Preseaon Men's Basketball Practice

[Dave in Green]

I do believe that thoughtful people can make intelligent observations about things they haven't seen with their own eyes. But personal witnessing certainly adds an extra dimension. So here are my initial impressions of this season's Zips:

My first thought from Saturday's practice is that the 3-point shooting exercise is a non-issue. It's just part of the regular drill that all players participate in, along with free throws, layups, etc. It's a nice stretch for the bigs to be shooting from beyond their normal range. It's not like KD is trying to turn them all into long-range bombers.

Overall, the main thing that struck me is how different this group is from traditional KD teams.

First, you've got three transfers, all of whom look to be capable of playing major roles. Q is back, looking more under control, polished and confident in both his shooting and passing. Walsh and Gilliam look like the college veterans they are, and seem to be integrating well with last season's returnees. Both are big, physical guards who can shoot from deep range or drive the lane. Walsh is a good ball handler who can bring it upcourt fast and hit the open man. He looks to be ready to play extended minutes at the point.

Then you have the two highly athletic Cleveland forwards who had to sit out a year to qualify. What I saw in practice from Tree and Harney matches what the optimists have been saying. Harney is a little like Q in that he has quick moves and seems to really enjoy blowing by or soaring over defenders. Tree comes across as more intense and serious, especially on defense, reminding me more of Jeremiah Wood. Opponents will not quickly forget games where they've gone up against Tree. Both Harney and Tree appear to love to go after rebounds, which is seriously good news for the Zips.

Then there's the 7-foot center with NBA potential. Zeke looks stronger, more experienced, more polished and more relaxed. He appears to be enthusiastic about the players around him. We won't really know how he will play under game conditions until the season starts. But that's true of all the players.

Now add in the overseas duo of Rico and the Serb. Rico appears to be starting the season in better shape than last year, and is zinging his passes around with more authority and accuracy. He loves to lead the fast break, and he's surrounded by players who can run with him and finish big time at the rim. The Serb wasn't there, of course, as he's playing with the Serbian national team. With that international playing experience on top of what he proved he could do last season, it's fair to expect great things from the Serb in his senior season.

The eight players above, who collectively represent more than half of the Zips roster, do not fit the mold of stereotypical Zips players. They are the type of athletic and skilled players that Zips fans have been saying for years on this forum that they wanted to see KD recruit. Well, they're here now, so why not give KD credit for doing what we asked and be a little more optimistic about the results of our recommendations?

Beyond the above eight, there are also two more returning veterans and a redshirt. And while Nitro, Egner and Green may seem like more typical KD recruits than the eight above, they could all become major contributors. Nitro already proved himself last season when he took a big step up. If he elevates a little more for his senior season, he'll be a key player. Egner really impressed me in practice with his intensity and aggressiveness. His athleticism is right up there with Tree and Harney, as his sky high jams in practice demonstrated. Green has a sweet shooting stroke and made a couple of nice defensive stops. Last season we thought he was the odd man out. But he stuck with it and has improved while Euton hit the road.

On top of the 11 above are two talented freshmen. I came to practice thinking that both Ibitayo and Justice would have to redshirt as there wouldn't be enough PT available. Now I'm wondering if a 13-man rotation is feasible. Both of these recent HS grads look sturdier than their 6-3, 180-pound roster stats. Justice has one of the nicest 3-point strokes I've seen, and Ibitayo has absolutely no fear in driving to the bucket. Beyond those strengths, both freshmen showed me that their overall games were already a little less raw than I expected.

Perhaps the best news for Zips fans is that it appears we will no longer be able to complain about a slow-paced Zips halfcourt game. All of these guys can run, jump and score, and it would be foolish not to play to their strengths. I don't see KD ignoring defense and focusing on offense. But I do see these players being capable of scoring in bunches, which will be exciting and fun to watch.

It's a lot easier to play a running game when you have lots of good players. I really see the possibility of a minimum 10-player rotation with the possibility that three more players have the potential to earn at least some PT depending on their development rate. The more Zips who play and the faster they run, the more they're going to run other teams with shorter benches into the ground toward the end of games.

Now, for the pessimists, there are no guarantees. While it's nice that all these players looked so promising in practice, it doesn't mean they will look that good against tough opponents. And that's just individual player performance. Team chemistry will be criticial. How do all the pieces fit together? Will they all make good game decisions about when to pass and when to shoot? Will they have a slow start, get demoralized and underachieve? These are all real possibilities that happen to many college teams every season.

Nope, no predictions from me yet on how many games I expect this team to win this season. All I can tell you from watching one practice is that there are no obvious underachievers in this group at this point. The potential is there for this team to be more like a Butler or VCU. But it's going to require a lot of things going right, and the odds are heavily against any midmajor doing what Butler and VCU have accomplished.

For now, the only thing I'm certain about is that, win or lose, this will be a more entertaining team to watch.

[Dr Z]

Perhaps the best news for Zips fans is that it appears we will no longer be able to complain about a slow-paced Zips halfcourt game. All of these guys can run, jump and score...

Will they be able to in game situations? I'll answer my own question when mac play starts. I would like some member of the media to ask KD this question on record before the season starts. It's great to have "buzz" going in August. I'm hoping it's going to be an up tempo fun exciting basketball season.

Now, for the pessimists, there are no guarantees. While it's nice that all these players looked so promising in practice, it doesn't mean they will look that good against tough opponents. And that's just individual player performance. Team chemistry will be criticial. How do all the pieces fit together? Will they all make good game decisions about when to pass and when to shoot? Will they have a slow start, get demoralized and underachieve? These are all real possibilities that happen to many college teams every season.

Your right. You can also include coaching. Will we be playing the right players at the right spot and time. Will we have the proper defense and offense called at the right time of the game. Good plays drawn up after TOs. Will our staff have our players prepared for the upcoming opponent and put them in a position to succeed. I would hope we progress in this area as well.

[GP1]

Will they be able to in game situations? I'll answer my own question when mac play starts.

When MAC play starts? The season starts in Nov....this team has a ton of talent and they will be coming off of a summer playing together where they get full time coaching. I expect this team to be good from day one.

[ZachTheZip]

Seems less scripted than Ianello's interviews, but still edited by the athletic department to remove anything of substance.

[Dr Z]

Will they be able to in game situations? I'll answer my own question when mac play starts.

When MAC play starts?

Yeah, I get fooled sometimes by KD. He seems to coach different when it comes to mac play. We get into mac play and his rotations seem to change. By then we find out who and who we can't count on when it is crunch time. I think this is how we discovered Q could ball. Some first year players excel in KD's system (Q), some fall behind and we don't hear from them the rest of the season (Egner). We have plenty of first year players that some are banking on them making contributions. I never get to high or low until we get a few games into the mac schedule. Plus we'll be adjusting to some kind of injury to someone by then. If we knock off a favorite OOC top 50 team on the road, I reserve the right to start getting excited before mac play though.

[GoZips]

Today's scrimmage (Monday, Aug 8) went fast and furious. These kids love to bang heads.

The officials were kind and only called hard fouls. I think it gave the kids a chance to play hard.

It is clear now the top eight players in the rotation (excluding the Serb). But the rest of the

players are right on their heels. You let up for a second and you will be out of the rotation.

The competition is fierce.

A couple of players stood out. Bret McClanahan was a scoring machine inside/outside.

He also was in form on the defensive side of the ball.

Alex Abreu cemented his starting role on the point. Blake Justice may contend for minutes

with Brian Walsh who also came to play. Blake just fills up the basket ala McClanahan.

Blake is basically a two guard who is now going to learn the point.

Chauncey Gillam seems to love rebounding weak side. Quite an asset. His style reminds

one visiting college coach of Jamie Bosley. Nice complement.

Nick Harney plays his butt off Keith Dambrot style. And Nick learns quick.

Zeke is better every time he steps on the court. As KD sez, throw the f..in ball inside

'cause the big man is always open. I agree. The Zips are tall enough to lob passes in

over the top effectively.

Tree is another hard worker who is rapidly growing out of high school into a college player.

He needs to get into better condition if he wants PT. He needs to be ready to go come

October.

Finding a back up for Zeke is an issue. While Josh Egner plays tough, he lacks the size

to match up to a seven footer.

KD challenged the players to always be in the ball holder's face and contest every pass.

With the athleticism of this team that makes watching them play a lot of fun. They are

good and have the potential to be great. It is entirely up to them.

Last chance to catch a practice is Tuesday morning at 9:30. Wednesday practice will

start and end early as the team will then head for Buffalo, er, Canada.

One last point: CJ Oldham is playing like an experienced college player. He not likely

to rot on the bench. Frankly, CJ could start for a couple of MAC opponents.

[Dr Z]

Thanks for all the updates GZ.

[Dave in Green]

.... Some first year players excel in KD's system (Q), some fall behind and we don't hear from them the rest of the season (Egner). .....

You have to consider the circumstances. Q played his full freshman season at UNO and learned a lot there about college level play. He didn't immediately adjust to KD's system. It took awhile, but he definitely adjusted before the season was over. Egner was a true freshman with no college experience, and KD had other experienced options.

..... Finding a back up for Zeke is an issue. While Josh Egner plays tough, he lacks the size to match up to a seven footer. .....

Again, you have to consider the circumstances. Barring foul problems, Zeke's backup will most often be facing the opponent's backup center. How many teams on the Zips' schedule have true backup centers of any appreciable height? Most teams have a power forward in the 6-7/6-9 range as a backup center. With Egner's good hops, he should not be at a major disadvantage to any of them. Same with Tree. After those two and the Serb, the Zips are a little thin at the 4/5 position. But so are most of their opponents.

One of the interesting things about this year's team is that they lost a true center backup in the 6-10 Bardo. The Serb is now the second tallest Zip at 6-8. On the other hand, the Zips' guards are, on average, taller this season. While Rico is still clearly the shortest player at 5-10, the next shortest Zip this season is 6-3. The net result is that the average of all Zips players is about the same this season even though there's a bigger drop off after Zeke.

The best tall players are a luxury that generally migrate to the major power teams. The rest of the teams have to try to find shorter players who have enough hops and play hard enough to at least partially compensate for their lack of height. The Zips hyave definitely gained some big hops this season.

[Derrt]

Who is the other Afro Rocking player I believe he is #3? And how is he fitting in?

[Hilltopper]

Who is the other Afro Rocking player I believe he is #3? And how is he fitting in?

Thats Nick Harney. He is a small forward who sat out last year to get his grades in order.

[Blue & Gold]

Who is the other Afro Rocking player I believe he is #3? And how is he fitting in?

There are three players who look like triplets. They are Q, CJ Oldham & Nick Harney. CJ is the slightest of the three. I was extremely impressed with Harney today. Q is one of the teams' best, however, as much as I've heard about his improved 3-point shot, it still kind of has a knuckleball motion to it rather than a smooth rotation. However, it does go through the hoop, which is all that matters.

KD was really riding Chauncey today. He obviously has extremely high expectations for him.

Tree is a physical specimen. I can't believe he's only going to be a freshman.

The team just looks absolutely huge. Tall & muscular. Quick feet. Extremely athletic.

Rico is as quick as Jimmal Ball (minus the hops).

McClanahan looked amazing. He looks like a senior - extremely confident, under control & just effortlessly hits from NBA range.

Blake Justice & Deji Ibitayo are both very big. Neither look like true freshmen. Ibitayo's arms are muscular & hang down to his knees. He looked like the #2 PG today, which surprised me. Walsh played more 2G today (someone correct me if I'm mistaken about this), but looks/plays like a veteran already.

This team might just be amazing.

I'm still going to stick w/ my prediction of a relatively slow start - just like last year. The team will have to learn to play together & It will be interesting watching KD learn which combos play best together & getting his rotations down. Hope I'm wrong! Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

[Dave in Green]

Yep, Harney (#10) is closest to Q in the fro department. GoZips has done a good job of describing his performance. From what I saw in the one practice I attended, Harney's playing style is also similar to Q's. But he appears to be more of a full-time 3 where Q is better able to slide back and forth between the 2 and 3.

[Dave in Green]

..... KD was really riding Chauncey today. He obviously has extremely high expectations for him. .....

We should all have high expectations for Gilliam. Here are just a few quotes from the University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) website, where Gilliam played his first two years of DI college ball in the America East Conference, which is not too far below the MAC in overall conference strength:

Freshman Season:

2008-09: Earned four America East Conference Rookie-of-the-Week selections, the most in the conference last season and the most ever for a Retriever in six years of league play… Finished fifth in the conference in field goal percentage, hitting 51.4% from the floor, the best figure for a guard in the league… In America East contests, he finished 20th in scoring (11.5 ppg), and eighth in field goal percentage (49.3%) and free throw percentage (79.2%)… Scored the most points (349) for a Retriever freshman since Peter Mulligan amassed 450 in the 2000-01 season and produced the seventh-most in 23 years of Division I competition… Scored in double figures in 18 games, including 12 of the last 16… Hit 15 of his last 29 three-point attempts over UMBC’s final eight games.

Sophomore Season:

2009-10: Led the Retrievers in scoring, averaging 13.5 points per game. He was even more proficient in America East Conference play, scoring at a 15.3 points per game clip (sixth in America East), and most proficient in road league games with a 17.6 scoring average. The wing guard also led UMBC in three-point field goals (42), free throws (89) and free throw percentage (80.9%, fourth in America East) and steals (42, 1.5 per game, fifth in America East).

It should be noted that the Retrievers had a terrible season in 2009-10, finishing a miserable 4-26. Without the supporting cast that graduated after his freshman season, Gilliam didn't have much backup and the defenses could pretty much focus on trying to stop him. The collapse of UMBC's basketball program is probably a key reason why he left and transferred to UA.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

Lots of exuberant hyperbole posted recently, but this one is pretty over-the-top.

I'll give you the past 8-or-so years haven't seen too many eyeball-test teams. But in the 10 years previous, EMU (Dial, Head, Boykins), K.e.n.t (Elite 8 guys), Miami (Sczerbiak, Newble, Davis, etc), OU (Jamerson, Trent, Hunter, and many others), BG (Stacey/McCloud), Ball State (Lonnie Jones, Theron Smith, etc)....all have had some really legit rosters. And won some big games.

Even Marshall had some big teams, with VanHoose and Slay.

This group of Zips hasn't won anything. In the past, KD's teams have been ones where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hopefully he can continue that, with the increased talent level. Then we'll have something extra-special.

This will probably be KD's toughest year to coach. Dividing minutes will be tough. Zeke's a Junior...he needs to blossom big-time this year. Breaking-through and beating BCS-programs hasn't been done in a long time. I can't remember ever getting a single vote in any "real" basketball poll, let alone Top 25 ranking. A few votes in the "others" section would be an impressive step forward. Lots of milestones can be reached this season, beyond the elusive NCAA tourney win.

I dig the excitement and the potential as much as anyone...but let's be real. Best ever...even by only the eyeball test? MAC basketball has a lot more tradition than that.

[skip-zip]

Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

Lots of exuberant hyperbole posted recently, but this one is pretty over-the-top.

I'll give you the past 8-or-so years haven't seen too many eyeball-test teams. But in the 10 years previous, EMU (Dial, Head, Boykins), K.e.n.t (Elite 8 guys), Miami (Sczerbiak, Newble, Davis, etc), OU (Jamerson, Trent, Hunter, and many others), BG (Stacey/McCloud), Ball State (Lonnie Jones, Theron Smith, etc)....all have had some really legit rosters. And won some big games.

Even Marshall had some big teams, with VanHoose and Slay.

This group of Zips hasn't won anything. In the past, KD's teams have been ones where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hopefully he can continue that, with the increased talent level. Then we'll have something extra-special.

This will probably be KD's toughest year to coach. Dividing minutes will be tough. Zeke's a Junior...he needs to blossom big-time this year. Breaking-through and beating BCS-programs hasn't been done in a long time. I can't remember ever getting a single vote in any "real" basketball poll, let alone Top 25 ranking. A few votes in the "others" section would be an impressive step forward. Lots of milestones can be reached this season, beyond the elusive NCAA tourney win.

I dig the excitement and the potential as much as anyone...but let's be real. Best ever...even by only the eyeball test? MAC basketball has a lot more tradition than that.

I'm glad someone is slipping in a little reality every now and then.

Top 25? This started with someone saying that anything less than Top-16 would be a dissappointment. Now I think I've seen someone who's been watching practices believe that we could even be better than that? Heck, we've never even BEATEN a Top-25 team.

I think you're right. We've never received a single vote as an "others receiving votes" in any legit Top-25 poll.....ever....even with a 26-win team. So, if we win 27 or 28 games we'll not only get votes, but we'll get tons of votes, nationwide, from people who've barely even heard of Akron, and move all the way to the middle section of the Top-25? Dozens of people would all have to change their opinion about Akron, simultaneously, and that's not going to happen.

Lets look at what could possibly happen sometime soon, although it still would require an amazing scenario to fall into place...

Realistically, if we can somehow find a way to get through maybe our first 10 or 12 games of a season without a loss, maybe that would get 5 or 10 people to possibly change their opinion and vote for us? Where would that put us? Maybe about the 50-60 range? Of course, it would vanish after we lose our first game. But geez, I would consider that a MAJOR step forward for the program, which would be incredibly exciting. In fact, I'll jump for joy the first time we just simply record a win against a Top-25 team.

I can go watch as many practices as I want, and I'm quite sure that I couldn't look at this team and predict a sudden and incredible 80 position rise in our national ranking. It's not ever going to happen that fast. Akron is still a nobody to far too many people who matter.

[Blue & Gold]

Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

Lots of exuberant hyperbole posted recently, but this one is pretty over-the-top.

I'll give you the past 8-or-so years haven't seen too many eyeball-test teams. But in the 10 years previous, EMU (Dial, Head, Boykins), K.e.n.t (Elite 8 guys), Miami (Sczerbiak, Newble, Davis, etc), OU (Jamerson, Trent, Hunter, and many others), BG (Stacey/McCloud), Ball State (Lonnie Jones, Theron Smith, etc)....all have had some really legit rosters. And won some big games.

Even Marshall had some big teams, with VanHoose and Slay.

This group of Zips hasn't won anything. In the past, KD's teams have been ones where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hopefully he can continue that, with the increased talent level. Then we'll have something extra-special.

This will probably be KD's toughest year to coach. Dividing minutes will be tough. Zeke's a Junior...he needs to blossom big-time this year. Breaking-through and beating BCS-programs hasn't been done in a long time. I can't remember ever getting a single vote in any "real" basketball poll, let alone Top 25 ranking. A few votes in the "others" section would be an impressive step forward. Lots of milestones can be reached this season, beyond the elusive NCAA tourney win.

I dig the excitement and the potential as much as anyone...but let's be real. Best ever...even by only the eyeball test? MAC basketball has a lot more tradition than that.

I'm glad someone is slipping in a little reality every now and then.

Top 25? This started with someone saying that anything less than Top-16 would be a dissappointment. Now I think I've seen someone who's been watching practices believe that we could even be better than that? Heck, we've never even BEATEN a Top-25 team.

I think you're right. We've never received a single vote as an "others receiving votes" in any legit Top-25 poll.....ever....even with a 26-win team. So, if we win 27 or 28 games we'll not only get votes, but we'll get tons of votes, nationwide, from people who've barely even heard of Akron, and move all the way to the middle section of the Top-25? Dozens of people would all have to change their opinion about Akron, simultaneously, and that's not going to happen.

Lets look at what could possibly happen sometime soon, although it still would require an amazing scenario to fall into place...

Realistically, if we can somehow find a way to get through maybe our first 10 or 12 games of a season without a loss, maybe that would get 5 or 10 people to possibly change their opinion and vote for us? Where would that put us? Maybe about the 50-60 range? Of course, it would vanish after we lose our first game. But geez, I would consider that a MAJOR step forward for the program, which would be incredibly exciting. In fact, I'll jump for joy the first time we just simply record a win against a Top-25 team.

I can go watch as many practices as I want, and I'm quite sure that I couldn't look at this team and predict a sudden and incredible 80 position rise in our national ranking. It's not ever going to happen that fast. Akron is still a nobody to far too many people who matter.

Easy, cowboys. Not only was my above quote removed from it's context but was also obviously an emotive statement (note the "?" mark @ the end). Most readers would quickly realize that that was my way of ending on a positive note after concludng my post by saying I still think we'll start the season slowly - perhaps even just like last season when it looked like we'd be a .500 team, not hit 20 wins & not even make the Q.

What I did say is that this team passes the eyeball test. In a BIG way. An athletic, muscular 7-footer. (How often does a MAC team ever have one? Athletic & muscular? I suppose CMU's Kaman would be the last.) Not one, but two 6-8 240 lb. power forwards (Tree, Nik). Two 6-7 small forwards who can jump out of the gym (Harney, Egner). Muscular 6-6, 6-4 & 6-5 2Gs (Q, Gilliam & McClanahan, respectively) and a 6-4 backup PG (Walsh).

Will they be a Top 25 team? I don't know. No one does. Will they even win the MAC? I don't know. No one does. I'm not commenting on what may be. Maybe they won't be able to all co-exist. I'm simply saying what is. This team is absolutely huge.

[mes102]

Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

Lots of exuberant hyperbole posted recently, but this one is pretty over-the-top.

I'll give you the past 8-or-so years haven't seen too many eyeball-test teams. But in the 10 years previous, EMU (Dial, Head, Boykins), K.e.n.t (Elite 8 guys), Miami (Sczerbiak, Newble, Davis, etc), OU (Jamerson, Trent, Hunter, and many others), BG (Stacey/McCloud), Ball State (Lonnie Jones, Theron Smith, etc)....all have had some really legit rosters. And won some big games.

Even Marshall had some big teams, with VanHoose and Slay.

This group of Zips hasn't won anything. In the past, KD's teams have been ones where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hopefully he can continue that, with the increased talent level. Then we'll have something extra-special.

This will probably be KD's toughest year to coach. Dividing minutes will be tough. Zeke's a Junior...he needs to blossom big-time this year. Breaking-through and beating BCS-programs hasn't been done in a long time. I can't remember ever getting a single vote in any "real" basketball poll, let alone Top 25 ranking. A few votes in the "others" section would be an impressive step forward. Lots of milestones can be reached this season, beyond the elusive NCAA tourney win.

I dig the excitement and the potential as much as anyone...but let's be real. Best ever...even by only the eyeball test? MAC basketball has a lot more tradition than that.

I'm glad someone is slipping in a little reality every now and then.

Top 25? This started with someone saying that anything less than Top-16 would be a dissappointment. Now I think I've seen someone who's been watching practices believe that we could even be better than that? Heck, we've never even BEATEN a Top-25 team.

I think you're right. We've never received a single vote as an "others receiving votes" in any legit Top-25 poll.....ever....even with a 26-win team. So, if we win 27 or 28 games we'll not only get votes, but we'll get tons of votes, nationwide, from people who've barely even heard of Akron, and move all the way to the middle section of the Top-25? Dozens of people would all have to change their opinion about Akron, simultaneously, and that's not going to happen.

Lets look at what could possibly happen sometime soon, although it still would require an amazing scenario to fall into place...

Realistically, if we can somehow find a way to get through maybe our first 10 or 12 games of a season without a loss, maybe that would get 5 or 10 people to possibly change their opinion and vote for us? Where would that put us? Maybe about the 50-60 range? Of course, it would vanish after we lose our first game. But geez, I would consider that a MAJOR step forward for the program, which would be incredibly exciting. In fact, I'll jump for joy the first time we just simply record a win against a Top-25 team.

I can go watch as many practices as I want, and I'm quite sure that I couldn't look at this team and predict a sudden and incredible 80 position rise in our national ranking. It's not ever going to happen that fast. Akron is still a nobody to far too many people who matter.

So San Diego State, Butler and Memphis changed the voters' votes, but if we had a season like their's, it wouldn't be the same for us? That's right...because we're the black hole in the NCAA...we're the abandoned child of the NCAA

[skip-zip]

Anyway, I haven't seen a MAC team pass the eyeball test like this since... ever?

Lots of exuberant hyperbole posted recently, but this one is pretty over-the-top.

I'll give you the past 8-or-so years haven't seen too many eyeball-test teams. But in the 10 years previous, EMU (Dial, Head, Boykins), K.e.n.t (Elite 8 guys), Miami (Sczerbiak, Newble, Davis, etc), OU (Jamerson, Trent, Hunter, and many others), BG (Stacey/McCloud), Ball State (Lonnie Jones, Theron Smith, etc)....all have had some really legit rosters. And won some big games.

Even Marshall had some big teams, with VanHoose and Slay.

This group of Zips hasn't won anything. In the past, KD's teams have been ones where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Hopefully he can continue that, with the increased talent level. Then we'll have something extra-special.

This will probably be KD's toughest year to coach. Dividing minutes will be tough. Zeke's a Junior...he needs to blossom big-time this year. Breaking-through and beating BCS-programs hasn't been done in a long time. I can't remember ever getting a single vote in any "real" basketball poll, let alone Top 25 ranking. A few votes in the "others" section would be an impressive step forward. Lots of milestones can be reached this season, beyond the elusive NCAA tourney win.

I dig the excitement and the potential as much as anyone...but let's be real. Best ever...even by only the eyeball test? MAC basketball has a lot more tradition than that.

I'm glad someone is slipping in a little reality every now and then.

Top 25? This started with someone saying that anything less than Top-16 would be a dissappointment. Now I think I've seen someone who's been watching practices believe that we could even be better than that? Heck, we've never even BEATEN a Top-25 team.

I think you're right. We've never received a single vote as an "others receiving votes" in any legit Top-25 poll.....ever....even with a 26-win team. So, if we win 27 or 28 games we'll not only get votes, but we'll get tons of votes, nationwide, from people who've barely even heard of Akron, and move all the way to the middle section of the Top-25? Dozens of people would all have to change their opinion about Akron, simultaneously, and that's not going to happen.

Lets look at what could possibly happen sometime soon, although it still would require an amazing scenario to fall into place...

Realistically, if we can somehow find a way to get through maybe our first 10 or 12 games of a season without a loss, maybe that would get 5 or 10 people to possibly change their opinion and vote for us? Where would that put us? Maybe about the 50-60 range? Of course, it would vanish after we lose our first game. But geez, I would consider that a MAJOR step forward for the program, which would be incredibly exciting. In fact, I'll jump for joy the first time we just simply record a win against a Top-25 team.

I can go watch as many practices as I want, and I'm quite sure that I couldn't look at this team and predict a sudden and incredible 80 position rise in our national ranking. It's not ever going to happen that fast. Akron is still a nobody to far too many people who matter.

So San Diego State, Butler and Memphis changed the voters' votes, but if we had a season like their's, it wouldn't be the same for us? That's right...because we're the black hole in the NCAA...we're the abandoned child of the NCAA

No. I'm saying that it won't happen overnight. We ARE the forgotten child right now. You're talking about a program that hasn't even beaten a single Top-25 team in their entire history. So, imagine how long it would take for people who matter to believe that we belong IN the Top-25. Good Luck selling that one to the pollsters.

[Captain Kangaroo]

So San Diego State, Butler and Memphis changed the voters' votes, but if we had a season like their's, it wouldn't be the same for us? That's right...because we're the black hole in the NCAA...we're the abandoned child of the NCAA

Memphis and Butler played for National Championships. San Diego State was ranked #2 in the country.

We've never received a single vote in any "real" poll, and have two double-digit losses in our only two NCAA appearances this millennium.

Newcomers Harney and Treadwell played only one season of high school ball, and sat out last season entirely. Walsh could practice, but he's played really limited game minutes since Moon High in 2008.

The MAC can be won with a plucky, mop-haired point guard. "Upper-tier" college basketball isn't so easy.

I am fully on-board with the fact that this team will be a blast to watch. That it has huge upside. That we can knock off some previously un-knock-offable programs. But we need to earn street cred before we get ranked, and taken with the seriousness of a VCU, George Mason, Gonzaga, Butler, Memphis, SDSU...even a Saint Mary's or upper-tier MCV program. Those programs have earned their rankings and respect on the court.

Until that time, we're just the plucky over-achievers from a slightly-below-mediocre basketball conference.

[mes102]

I'm not saying that without a key nonconference win we will be a top 25 team. To be honest, I could care less about the polls. No one really pays attention to the polls from the inside part of a program anyways. What I'm trying to say, and so is GoZips, is that this team, AT THE END OF THE YEAR, will be a top 25 team. Also, Memphis had to start somewhere. So did San Diego State. Because I'm a huge college basketball fan since I was in middle school, but I never heard about San Diego State until last year. We may be one year away from top 10/16 in nation, but we're not too far off from top 20/25 this year...

[Zip Watcher]

We've never received a single vote in any "real" poll, and have two double-digit losses in our only two NCAA appearances this millennium.

Here you run into trouble.

You're here admonishing energized fans about their opinions, and you want to base the cold shower on facts to back up your reservations.

I think it's good to be cautious here. You live in NEOH and are a Vikings fan. I get it. We all have big hopes, and some of us are more eager than others to dream big for our guys.

Problem here is that your "facts" are categorically and completely inaccurate. The Zips have received AP votes, on multiple occasions under KD. It's not some magic land they've never visited. Is the AP poll a real poll?

Two NCAA births in 3 seasons are real, tangible evidence of success. They weren't accidents. I look forward to more.

I've got them on.

B)

Go Zips!!

[Dave in Green]

B&G, I get the point you were trying to make. From the quick eyeball test in practice, this team is pretty impressive looking. I get that the impressive part you're talking about is purely potential at this point. And I know from your history as a realistic poster that you understand that much of the potential in the world goes to waste because it's never fully realized.

I don't think any of us really knows what some of the great MAC teams of the past looked like when subjected to the eyeball test in practice. Maybe they practiced like Michael Jordan's Bulls, or maybe they looked pretty ordinary in practice and overachieved in games. But I completely agree with you that there's good reason to be optimistic about the potential of the current Zips. Having an athletic and skilled 7-footer at center automatically places any MAC team near the top of the eyeball test, and the surrounding cast this season doesn't hurt at all.

On your point about Tree being 6-8, 240, the official roster currently lists him at 6-7, 210. I think in an earlier thread we speculated that it would be nice if he was still growing and could get up to the 6-8, 240 range. But if he can play effectively at a lighter weight, there are some advantages in not carrying too much bulk. I like that Tree has that same intensity I saw in Egner when I witnessed him leading Jackson HS to a state championship, and think they both have the potential to play bigger than their physical dimensions.

The next phase of the eyeball test is how these players look in exhibition games. So the reports from Canada will be anxiously awaited here. But KD told us at Saturday's practice that he was way more interested in seeing all the players and how various combinations performed together under game conditions than he was about winning the games. So our level of enthusiasm shouldn't be diminished if the Zips don't blow out all the teams they play in Canada.

Last season I made three predictions about Zips players that turned out to be overoptimistic. I said that Euton would develop into a keeper, Egner would earn more PT as a freshman, and that Zeke had his breakout game in the MAC opener against Can't and was going to be dominant for the rest of the season. Euton is gone, Egner didn't get a lot of PT, and Zeke had another up-and-down season of good and so-so game performances.

The penalty of overoptimism is disappointment. So I'm going to try to curb my enthusiasm and be a little more realistic this season. But that doesn't mean I don't think this team will be more fun and entertaining to watch than previous Zips teams. Watching them run, jump and score is going to generate fan enthusiasm, which will in turn generate more optimism. That will be followed by the inevitable disappointment when they lose.

In the end, a lot of the posts here this season will be similar to a lot of last season's posts, because the more the Zips change, the more we fans remain the same.

[Derrt]

I honestly think the Zips will be a sleeper team this year. 20+ wins, mark my words

[Dr Z]

We may be one year away from top 10/16 in nation, but we're not too far off from top 20/25 this year...

Do they serve beverages at these practices or do you guys bring your own?

This thread is the best Akron basketball marketing I have seen since the Huggins Showtime poster.

You guys probably sold me on 2 more early season games that I normally listen to on the radio. I got to see this team in action!

[Captain Kangaroo]

We've never received a single vote in any "real" poll, and have two double-digit losses in our only two NCAA appearances this millennium.

Here you run into trouble.

You're here admonishing energized fans about their opinions, and you want to base the cold shower on facts to back up your reservations.

I think it's good to be cautious here. You live in NEOH and are a Vikings fan. I get it. We all have big hopes, and some of us are more eager than others to dream big for our guys.

Problem here is that your "facts" are categorically and completely inaccurate. The Zips have received AP votes, on multiple occasions under KD. It's not some magic land they've never visited. Is the AP poll a real poll?

Two NCAA births in 3 seasons are real, tangible evidence of success. They weren't accidents. I look forward to more.

I've got them on.

B)

Go Zips!!

First - Let me clarify that I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan, not a CSU Vikings fan.

If the Zips received an AP vote in the "others" category at some point over the last 7 years, I forgot about it. It must have happened back in the Travis-era for a week or two? Not exactly a Butler-esque run, but if true I certainly stand corrected.

Assuming there are 22 "poll weeks" per season...over 7 seasons...that's 154 possible weeks in a poll (ran out of fingers and toes on that calculation). If we have 3 weeks on the charts out of 154...I think it is safe to say our street cred is, in the big picture of NCAA basketball, "leaving a lot of room for upside." Especially when compared to Memphis, Butler and the other marquee mid-majors mentioned.

I realize I am tossing the smallest of wet blankets on our monumental pre-season run to the Sweet 16, but what the heck...Skip Zip was slacking off, so I had to fill the void.