Conference Re-Alignment?

[akzipper]

I hope not. CUSA sucks.

but you want to add JMU and ODU to the MAC? The level of competition is already diluted enough thanks to the MAC west, adding them will just make it worse. I just don't see how conferences like CUSA and the MAC can justify adding schools with 1 to zero years with a football program, to automatically put them in FBS the highest level of competition. CUSA may suck, but the MAC is much worse...

[Zipmeister]

but you want to add JMU and ODU to the MAC? The level of competition is already diluted enough thanks to the MAC west east, adding them will just make it worse. I just don't see how conferences like CUSA and the MAC can justify adding schools with 1 to zero years with a football program, to automatically put them in FBS the highest level of competition. CUSA may suck, but the MAC is much worse...

Fixed it for you.

[GP1]

The level of competition is already diluted enough

I agree. There are too many D-1A teams and most of them aren't capable of competing at the hightst level. It's more about delusional ADs and not about creating competition. True story.... A few months back, I had the AD at uncc come and speak to a professional organization I belong to. She is a wonderful person who is at the end of her career and is trying to leave her legacy with the football program and a new stadium. I think it is leading her to making bad decisions about the football program and the move to cusa is one of them. I asked her about my idea of a separate division for BCS level schools and she said something like, "We don't want to be looked at as different or less than them." In real life, I have trouble hiding my facial reactions when someone says something that makes no sense, but in a professional setting, I try to not say something that might offend. I could feel my face start to get a confused look on it and all I said back was, "Interesting" (this very thing happened to me in a conversation with TW as well, but that is another story). At that moment, her architect walked up and started talking to us and saved me from expanding beyond "interesting". Perfect timing or missed opportunity to save a uncc from doing something really stupid?

This is why creating a separate division is so important for college football. It will create a structure that will save schools like uncc from their own athletic directors and their legacy/resume building. It will also restore competitive integrity to the game.

[akzipper]

I agree. There are too many D-1A teams and most of them aren't capable of competing at the hightst level.

Exactly. I honestly think that all of these teams should earn a jump to FBS. If they want to move up, they should have to serve as an independent for 2-3 seasons to get a good idea of competitiveness and fan support. If they show they deserve to be there, then CUSA or the MAC should give them a shot. How a school that has NEVER fielded a football team before gets to start out in FBS and got a CUSA invite before us is just baffling. Is our football team really that bad?

[GP1]

Exactly. I honestly think that all of these teams should earn a jump to FBS. If they want to move up, they should have to serve as an independent for 2-3 seasons to get a good idea of competitiveness and fan support. If they show they deserve to be there, then CUSA or the MAC should give them a shot. How a school that has NEVER fielded a football team before gets to start out in FBS and got a CUSA invite before us is just baffling. Is our football team really that bad?

The quality of our football team isn't the problem.

I'll say it again. Spring football and screw everyone else. Start in April and the weather gets progressively better as the season progresses. Start in September and the weather gets progressively worse as the season progresses. I just looked at the Weather Channel. Many of you could be sitting in Lot 9 right now on a beautiful 74 degree spring day in Akron eating some dogs/burgers and throwing back some beers before a real college football game. UofA could be the place to be in the fall for soccer games, basketball games in the winter and football games in the spring and early summer. I may write an article about how I would do this and submit it to Deadspin to see if they publish it.

[lance99]

In an earlier chapter of this serial discussion, I suggested that a new college football division might separate itself from the BCS and gain more public interest by adopting rules that favored offense over defense. Let Wild West offenses regularly put up 100 or more points per game and see if the public favors that over an Alabama-LSU no touchdown defensive slugfest as we saw in their first meeting last season.

So you would like to have it set up like English Premier League soccer?

[ZachTheZip]

The ECU Chancellor did an interview yesterday saying that C-USA's target is 18 teams. He mentioned that they were looking at some Sun Belt and MAC schools.

We're not done yet.

[Dave in Green]

So you would like to have it set up like English Premier League soccer?

I don't follow soccer closely enough to catch the meaning of your reference.

[lance99]

I don't follow soccer closely enough to catch the meaning of your reference.

What the Permire League does is the use a "tired" system. What you see on television is their top teams. When a club is really bad, they move them down one level until they get better. Also when a team is really good, they move them up to the top level. (think like if MLB moved a team down to AAA of move one up from AAA)

[UAZipster0305]

What the Permire League does is the use a "tired" system. What you see on television is their top teams. When a club is really bad, they move them down one level until they get better. Also when a team is really good, they move them up to the top level. (think like if MLB moved a team down to AAA of move one up from AAA)

I'd like to expand upon this, lance99...

The English Premier League (EPL) does not actively pick and choose who gets moved up and down though. It is totally performance-based. The EPL does not have a playoff system, and standings are kept in a single table. That is, it is not broken down into smaller regional groupings (East/West, American/National, AFC/NFC, etc.). At the end of the season, the team at the top of the table is the league champion, the top four teams earn spots to play in the Champions League the following season, and the bottom teams get demoted to the next lower tier with the top teams from that lower tier advancing to the EPL. The movement of teams between tiers is known as relegation and promotion. (The Champions League concept is also really interesting, and it exists in North American professional soccer too.)

Hence, at the end of the season, some of the best EPL games are not at the top of the table as there may already be a lot of stratification with the winner and top four teams already decided. Instead, the best games at the end of the season are usually the relegation match-ups. Relegation and promotion is huge for the pride of the respective fan bases.

Because MLB is the only tiered professional sports setup in the US (aside from MLS), it is the only sport that could support relegation and promotion. I would love to see this. Good bye KC Royals. And how exciting would it be for the Aeros to be able to move up to AAA for winning the Eastern League? Relegation and promotion is also an interesting concept for college football, but the last few years that would not have bode well for us. Interesting to think about though.

[lance99]

I'd like to expand upon this, lance99...

The English Premier League (EPL) does not actively pick and choose who gets moved up and down though. It is totally performance-based. The EPL does not have a playoff system, and standings are kept in a single table. That is, it is not broken down into smaller regional groupings (East/West, American/National, AFC/NFC, etc.). At the end of the season, the team at the top of the table is the league champion, the top four teams earn spots to play in the Champions League the following season, and the bottom teams get demoted to the next lower tier with the top teams from that lower tier advancing to the EPL. The movement of teams between tiers is known as relegation and promotion. (The Champions League concept is also really interesting and it exists in North American professional soccer too.)

Hence, at the end of the season, some of the best EPL games are not at the top of the table as there may already be a lot of stratification with the winners and top four teams already decided. Instead, the best games at the end of the season are usually the relegation match-ups. Relegation and promotion is huge for the pride of the respective fan bases.

Because MLB is the only tiered professional sports setup in the US (aside from MLS), it is the only sport that could support relegation and promotion. I would love to see this. Good bye KC Royals. And how exciting would it be for the Aeros to be able to move up to AAA for winning the Eastern League? Relegation and promotion is also an interesting concept for college football, but the last few years that would not have bode well for us. Interesting to think about though.

Very well explained

[ZachTheZip]

Who's next for Conference USA? Akron the only MAC school mentioned.

[lance99]

Who's next for Conference USA? Akron the only MAC school mentioned.

Zach,

My question at this point would be why? Like I said eariler in this thread, it is the poor mans MAC West there.

[ZachTheZip]

Zach,

My question at this point would be why? Like I said eariler in this thread, it is the poor mans MAC West there.

Because it's full of schools who aren't satisfied with where they're at. They all work towards improving and eventually exiting to a better conference. How many schools in the MAC can you say that about? Most of the MAC schools don't care. They do just enough to stay where they are, and they'll never improve themselves, which means the conference will never move forward. C-USA is at least trying to move forward, so while they might have dropped behind the current MAC, they will jump it in a few years.

[zippy5]

i don't think they dropped behind the MAC

[UAZipster0305]

I think CUSA would be a solid place for our soccer program. UAB, South Carolina, SMU, UCF, Marshall, Memphis, Kentucky, Tulsa...impressive list. Much better than UB, Buffalo, Hartwick, Florida Atlantic, and BGSU. West Virginia would probably have to follow us, and if so, Northern Illinois would get the automatic NCAA bid from the MAC every year. You have to figure NIU would want us to go as well.

[GP1]

Because it's full of schools who aren't satisfied with where they're at. They all work towards improving and eventually exiting to a better conference.

So basically you are saying it is a never ending building process with no real goal? Aren't we already on that ride? What would the better conference be??

[ZachTheZip]

So basically you are saying it is a never ending building process with no real goal? Aren't we already on that ride? What would the better conference be??

Right now it's the Big East, who despite all their problems, is still miles ahead of the MAC or C-USA. But there's also the possibility of a split into an eastern and western conference. I would like to be in an eastern conference with ECU, Old Dominion, and Marshall. Even being in C-USA as an eastern division with them is better than being in the MAC. It's a matter of differentiation from the other MAC schools. Familiarity breeds contempt, and the people of Ohio are familiar enough with the MAC to know it's a bad conference full of uninteresting local teams. Going somewhere else tells people that we're not like Can't, Ohio, Miami, or BGSU, who all suck according to the people we're trying to attract to our athletics programs. They don't know about the C-USA schools, but they have been raised since birth to believe that anything from outside Ohio is superior to whatever's in it, so belonging to a conference that's not saturated here could make them believe that we have a better athletic program than the rest of the MAC (because they're all stuck in an Ohio league, and a league from Ohio must suck by definition).

[GP1]

Right now it's the Big East, who despite all their problems, is still miles ahead of the MAC or C-USA. But there's also the possibility of a split into an eastern and western conference. I would like to be in an eastern conference with ECU, Old Dominion, and Marshall. Even being in C-USA as an eastern division with them is better than being in the MAC. It's a matter of differentiation from the other MAC schools. Familiarity breeds contempt, and the people of Ohio are familiar enough with the MAC to know it's a bad conference full of uninteresting local teams.

By the time the Big East is done, there will be little difference between it and cusa. I want out of the mac as well. Heck, I want out of the ncaa and to play our games in the spring as part of a 45-60 team conference/division with a national championship game on July 4th, but that is a whole other issue.

I have heard that part of the reason why TW was brought to UofA was to get us out of the MAC. His background working in conferences was seen as a plus when he was hired. Further, there are people on the BOT who are dead set on joining the Big East regardless of it's condition by the time we get into it. Short sighted, but that is the view of some in power. I wouldn't let TW make a decision on which fantasy football league a person should switch to.

[Lee Adams]

As has been mentioned previously,until the teams/conferences that play at the level of the MAC,SunbeltBig East etc,etc. separate themselves from the upper echelon,the current legitimate BCS conferences and 'do their own thing' this is just a meaningless game of musical chairs. It was much more meaningful when teams like Akron et al could legitimately competete for a National Championship at whatever level it happened to be designated.

[bobbyake]

I think CUSA would be a solid place for our soccer program. UAB, South Carolina, SMU, UCF, Marshall, Memphis, Kentucky, Tulsa...impressive list. Much better than UB, Buffalo, Hartwick, Florida Atlantic, and BGSU. West Virginia would probably have to follow us, and if so, Northern Illinois would get the automatic NCAA bid from the MAC every year. You have to figure NIU would want us to go as well.

SMU, Memphis, and UCF are joining the Big Eastallover. If the MAC can get JMU and ODU, we're looking at a very strong soccer conference.

[Wally B]

SMU, Memphis, and UCF are joining the Big Eastallover. If the MAC can get JMU and ODU, we're looking at a very strong soccer conference.

Which includues a great NIU team, former nat champ Hartwick, and a resurgent WMU.

Back to football, the CUSA still offers us nothing... except more travel. Yeah there were a number of programs looking to "move up" but again Zach the question remains to what? The new look CUSA looks dreadful and has its full share of mediocre or worse programs... There's little they can do to add power to their conference at this point, hence the teams they took. Right now, the MAC is looking good at this point as a place of stability and a better strength when compared to what's left. Yes add JMU and OD... Those would be targeted additions, not the free for all exhibited by CUSA. Additional, who exactly are they going to add out west for the MTW? Only Idaho and NMST are left... that's it... end of the road... period...

[ZachTheZip]

It's a lateral move competitively, sure, but it gives us an edge in local recruiting because of the biases against the MAC. It allows us to improve faster and to a higher ceiling than the MAC offers. Travel is more expensive, but their TV deal pays out far more money. There is a much higher opportunity for an at-large basketball bid in C-USA. They have better paying and more prestigious bowl games.

[Wally B]

It's a lateral move competitively, sure, but it gives us an edge in local recruiting because of the biases against the MAC. It allows us to improve faster and to a higher ceiling than the MAC offers. Travel is more expensive, but their TV deal pays out far more money. There is a much higher opportunity for an at-large basketball bid in C-USA. They have better paying and more prestigious bowl games.

Fair enough as it stands now...

I think it will be interesting to see how the bowls and broadcast contracts pay out.

[Dave in Green]

@lance99 and @trimmy10, thanks for the explanation about the tiered system. I agree that's the kind of thinking that can help spark interest. I was a big fan of the ABA when it was going up against the NBA. I especially liked the ABA's pioneering use of the 3-point shot, and the fact that they encouraged more of a finesse game whereas the NBA was letting the big bodies batter each other in the lane. There are ways to do that in football, as well, as the Canadians have shown. Of course, the wrong rules could also totally screw up the game.