Conference Re-Alignment?

[Dave in Green]

There isn't much stability anywhere right now, as today's annoucement of VCU joining Butler in moving to the Atlantic 10 demonstrates.

There's an awful lot to consider in order to form an educated opinion. For example, my first reaction after learning that Navy was joining the Big East was that this was not a very strong addition for football. Then I read the following:

The addition of Navy gives the Big East some national flavor and also a fairly decent on-the-field product. In the last nine seasons, Navy is 75-40. That's certainly much better than anything Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished. Navy's 75 wins in the last nine seasons rank as the 20th most in the nation -- the only current or future Big East schools with more are Boise State and West Virginia. Navy also has been to a bowl game in eight of the past nine seasons and it has 18 victories against teams from the AQ BCS leagues in that time frame, easily the most of any non-AQ BCS team.

No, Navy is never going to be playing for the national championship. But they've put together a fairly impressive record over the last nine seasons. They're certainly an upgrade over most of the teams the Zips are currently playing in the MAC.

[Wally B]

Since Winters explained everything on the UA Football Facebook site, I think everyone here knows exactly how it went down. And the scenario you were told is a complete fabrication.

I would add that Bowden mentioned he was contacted by an executive recruiter after Winters rejected the position..... That and the recruiter was shocked when he said yes... but I digress, sorry I don't have time to search down the link.

Back to the Big East... We'd be fools not to want to move up. There isn't a school or fan base in non-aq FBS that doesn't desire a shot at the next level. Prepared, qualified, or anything less is just ludacrist.

[Wally B]

I think the Big East leftovers will still be better than CUSA aka "the kitchen sink."

Plus, you make it sound like we have a ton of choices in the matter. In your opinion, what realistic, viable options do we have other than CUSA and Big East?

Hell, overall the Mac may be better than the kitchen sink

Thus Big East is an option, CUSA is not, and enjoy the stability until then. Remember, the conference pardigms of 2011 and 2010 are gone.

Impending CUSA roster

Tulsa - decent all round program

UAB - doesn't stand out

Charlotte - decent basketball, no curent football due to objecting donor (I swear this is true)

ECU - decent football, but nothing else.... yeah I know baseball but that isn't a driving force

FIU - only notables are a football fight with Miami (FL) and FL location

Marshall - nuff said, best days were in MAC while cheating....

NTx - location in Texas is only redeming quality

Rice - Largely unnoticed Fb and bb programs, baseball nat champions though, would like to be w/ Houston or in B12.

SMs - Good fb program, probably tops in league, like ECU cant think of anything else

Tulane - I think they had to sue to keep president from nixing entire program, haven't recovered

UTEP - historic bb, on violent section of Mexican Border in desert.

UTSA - has yet to play a single fb game

LA Tech - not much since Bradshaw beat the Zips in the championship... United behind hatred for LSU

Yep, WAaaayyy...... better than the MAC, just what we need to start going places

[Wally B]

UConn

Rutgers

Temple

Cincinnati

Louisville

Memphis

UCF

USF

SMU

Houston

Boise St.

SDSU

Navy

Okay nobody here is clairvoyant, but given this projected scenario I don't know how in the world this conference could be considered a "poor" option for UA football.

Ironically, I recently saw an article about the BIG bcs powers which included Cincinnati. Yet, I seem to remember Akron handling them nicely back in the day, and a largely empty Nippert Stadium when I lived down there in the late 90's. A great basketball program and an alliance w/ Louisvile got them in the door. One good coach and some exposure and now they are a power? It can be done. Trust me Nippert was an embarasment equal to the rubber bowl...

[akzipper]

I would add that Bowden mentioned he was contacted by an executive recruiter after Winters rejected the position..... That and the recruiter was shocked when he said yes... but I digress, sorry I don't have time to search down the link.

Back to the Big East... We'd be fools not to want to move up. There isn't a school or fan base in non-aq FBS that doesn't desire a shot at the next level. Prepared, qualified, or anything less is just ludacrist.

I would say that most of the MAC is content exactly where they are. That's why it's such a poor conference. Look around at facilities, coaching staffs, and money spent...only one school stands out, and that's us.

[Zipmeister]

Ironically, I recently saw an article about the BIG bcs powers which included Cincinnati. Yet, I seem to remember Akron handling them nicely back in the day, and a largely empty Nippert Stadium when I lived down there in the late 90's. A great basketball program and an alliance w/ Louisvile got them in the door. One good coach and some exposure and now they are a power? It can be done. Trust me Nippert was an embarasment equal to the rubber bowl...

I was at that game. Nippert looked like a first cousin of the Rubber Bowl. I could hardly keep from laughing as the Bearcat fans around me kept saying if they had a coach as good as the Zips had they could be really good. Apparently they were focused on his high school coaching prowess and not what he did at the collegiate level.

[ZippyRulz]

Hell, overall the Mac may be better than the kitchen sink

Thus Big East is an option, CUSA is not, and enjoy the stability until then. Remember, the conference pardigms of 2011 and 2010 are gone.

Impending CUSA roster

Tulsa - decent all round program

UAB - doesn't stand out

Charlotte - decent basketball, no curent football due to objecting donor (I swear this is true)

ECU - decent football, but nothing else.... yeah I know baseball but that isn't a driving force

FIU - only notables are a football fight with Miami (FL) and FL location

Marshall - nuff said, best days were in MAC while cheating....

NTx - location in Texas is only redeming quality

Rice - Largely unnoticed Fb and bb programs, baseball nat champions though, would like to be w/ Houston or in B12.

SMs - Good fb program, probably tops in league, like ECU cant think of anything else

Tulane - I think they had to sue to keep president from nixing entire program, haven't recovered

UTEP - historic bb, on violent section of Mexican Border in desert.

UTSA - has yet to play a single fb game

LA Tech - not much since Bradshaw beat the Zips in the championship... United behind hatred for LSU

Yep, WAaaayyy...... better than the MAC, just what we need to start going places

We just don't fit into that southern geography, east region is better for us. Furthermore, Tulane, Rice, and SMU need to get out of there and start a southern Preppy-academic league:

Tulane

Rice

SMU

Vanderbilt

Duke

Ga Tech

Clemson

Miami

UNC

Virginia

[akzipper]

Yep, WAaaayyy...... better than the MAC, just what we need to start going places

The MAC might as well be a high school schedule with all the stupid schools in Ohio. 75% of the MAC's schools are in either Ohio or Michigan, there's some good national exposure right there! When's the last time a MAC school moved up to a bigger conference, for all sports? When the last time a MAC school played in a national championship, of a sport that people actually care about? When's the last time it had a ranked team in basketball or football? I may be referring to the "old" CUSA but still, it happened. The MAC is terrible, plain and simple.

I apologize for blowing up like that, I'm just so tired of the MAC.

[zippy5]

When's the last time it had a ranked team in basketball or football?

I agree with the rest of your post but it does have a ranked men's basketball team right now.

[lance99]

Here is something interesting from the Dr. P. interview thread

PD: With all of the conference realignment going on, where do you see the Zips in the foreseeable future? Do you see them as a MAC team, or somewhere else?

LP: "Well, there are so many changes going on that it is hard to predict the future. We very much want to be seen as the very best in whatever level we have achieved. And we increasingly want to achieve more and more. Putting it another way, the University of Akron, always, was a much better university than a lot of people gave it credit for being. So it has been a joy, a pleasure, a sense of accomplishment over the last 14 years (as president) to have it seen as an exceptional place. Both academically, and increasingly in terms of athletics.

"The facilities, as I said, are second to none. We are increasingly moving forward in select sports, and we are making the (financial) commitment to retain Keith (Dambrot, basketball coach), retain Caleb, and people wanted to steal both of them away.

"And we were delighted when Terry (Bowden) identified himself as wanting to come here. And we're working with Dennis Mitchell so he can have continued success, and Jodie Kest (women's basketball) is coming along. So we want to certainly be in contention.

Talk about being evasive. Even he basically said he wants out of the MAC without saying it

[jupitertoo]

I would say that most of the MAC is content exactly where they are. That's why it's such a poor conference. Look around at facilities, coaching staffs, and money spent...only one school stands out, and that's us.

That's an asinine statement. How many MAC schools have you been to? Have you seen other schools' basketball facilities? Several MAC schools had indoor practice facilities well before Akron. Coaching salaries? Other MAC coaches make more than Bowden and Dambrot. A number of MAC schools spend more on athletics overall than Akron. How exactly does Akron "stand out" significantly more than Toledo or Ohio, for example?

[scottditzen]

SDSU helping Boise State find league solution

Written by

Brent Schrotenboer

San Diego State is helping Boise State find a stable conference home for its non-football sports, possibly in the Big West for 2013 and beyond.

But if that move fails and the Broncos can’t find a suitable league for those sports, SDSU might have to reevaluate its move to the Big East Conference in football next year.

“It’s a fluid time,” SDSU Athletic Director Jim Sterk said. “Boise is a great partner and we’re working to help find a solution for them.”

Asked what would happen if Boise State could not find a suitable league to place its non-football sports, Sterk said, “It’s just speculation at this point.”

Even if Boise State decided to stay in the Mountain West, SDSU still could move to the Big East without Boise as its western travel partner. It would just be a tougher move for SDSU to make on its own.

Both Boise State and San Diego State last year decided to leave the Mountain West to join the Big East in football effective July 1, 2013. They are the league’s only future members located west of the Rocky Mountains.

SDSU’s contract with the Big East states that if Boise State does not join the Big East as planned, the league will “discuss in good faith” SDSU’s admission into the league as a football-only member.

cont here:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/14...eague-solution/

[wadszip]

This probably belongs in this thread. Here's a breakdown of revenue/expenses/subsidy of public athletic departments:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/sto...base/54955804/1

Akron is in line with the rest of the MAC, actually on the high side in revenue and expenses and in the middle in the percent of the athletic department that is subsidized through student fees.

However, as it pertains to CUSA and the Big East, compare the MAC's numbers to schools in those conferences. A lot less revenue and a lot more subsidy pretty much across the board in the MAC.

I realize a lot of this will change with schools shifting from one conference to another, but still this is a general look at how leagues stack up to each other. In the MAC's case, it's the second lowest revenue producing FBS league only ahead of the Sun Belt, though the Sun Belt schools for the most part are a lot less subsidized.

[GP1]

Maybe a new commissioner can pull the Big East back together, or maybe it's too late. I would certainly not want UA to rush into signing up for a cruise on a listing ship.

10 football members:

UConn

Rutgers

Temple

Cincinnati

Louisville

Memphis

UCF

USF

SMU

Houston

3 football-only members:

Boise St.

SDSU

Navy

8 non-football members:

Providence

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Villanova

Georgetown

Notre Dame

DePaul

Marquette

I love the listing ship remark.

Above is a nice league if UCONN, Rutgers, L'vill and Cincy stay in the league. If they do, it will be years before we could compete for a football championship in this league. That's the pickle we would be in. The BE is not worth being in of these four schools leave...It also could hurt our other sports if they stay.

It would be the end of our success as a basketball program if UCONN, Rutgers, Lvill and Cincy stay in the BE. We can't beat the 7th place Big Ten team in the first round of the NIT with the most talented team in recent memory, we wouldn't compete well in the BE at all.

Sometimes, the best move is to do nothing. Right now, the nonbcs conferences are either cannibalizing each other, or they are bringing in teams that simply don't belong in D-1A. None of them are getting better in a meaningful way. Everyone at our level needs to stop fighting each other in an attempt to become king of the midgets and figure out a way for everyone to work together to stabilize nonbcs football.

I'm going to channel the Dave in Green within me now....We only get one shot at this because of the cost of exiting conferences. We shouldn't rush into anything and should be very careful where we go and have a full understanding of what we are going to will look like in 5 years. Doing nothing and trying to dominate the MAC over the next five years could be our best option.

[zippy5]

I love the listing ship remark.

Above is a nice league if UCONN, Rutgers, L'vill and Cincy stay in the league. If they do, it will be years before we could compete for a football championship in this league. That's the pickle we would be in. The BE is not worth being in of these four schools leave...It also could hurt our other sports if they stay.

It would be the end of our success as a basketball program if UCONN, Rutgers, Lvill and Cincy stay in the BE. We can't beat the 7th place Big Ten team in the first round of the NIT with the most talented team in recent memory, we wouldn't compete well in the BE at all.

Sometimes, the best move is to do nothing. Right now, the nonbcs conferences are either cannibalizing each other, or they are bringing in teams that simply don't belong in D-1A. None of them are getting better in a meaningful way. Everyone at our level needs to stop fighting each other in an attempt to become king of the midgets and figure out a way for everyone to work together to stabilize nonbcs football.

I'm going to channel the Dave in Green within me now....We only get one shot at this because of the cost of exiting conferences. We shouldn't rush into anything and should be very careful where we go and have a full understanding of what we are going to will look like in 5 years. Doing nothing and trying to dominate the MAC over the next five years could be our best option.

C'mon GP1, you know damn well we'd recruit better in the Big East. You think UConn made the jump to D-1A football and said "oh well we only have 1-AA players?" Was Cincy remotely competitive before they joined the BE? USF? They didn't even have a program before they went. If it were up to you, they wouldn't have made the jump from no program to the BE (and #2 in the country a couple times) because the talent on hand wasn't good enough to begin with.

[ZachTheZip]

This probably belongs in this thread. Here's a breakdown of revenue/expenses/subsidy of public athletic departments:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/sto...base/54955804/1

Akron is in line with the rest of the MAC, actually on the high side in revenue and expenses and in the middle in the percent of the athletic department that is subsidized through student fees.

However, as it pertains to CUSA and the Big East, compare the MAC's numbers to schools in those conferences. A lot less revenue and a lot more subsidy pretty much across the board in the MAC.

I realize a lot of this will change with schools shifting from one conference to another, but still this is a general look at how leagues stack up to each other. In the MAC's case, it's the second lowest revenue producing FBS league only ahead of the Sun Belt, though the Sun Belt schools for the most part are a lot less subsidized.

It has a lot to do with conference TV contracts. The MAC hands out maybe $300,000 to each school for it's contract with ESPN. For the BCS conferences that number is astronomical, while at conferences like C-SA and the MWC it's $1 or $2 million per school. Both our revenues and percent subsidized would improve if we made an extra million dollars from TV.

[GP1]

C'mon GP1, you know damn well we'd recruit better in the Big East. You think UConn made the jump to D-1A football and said "oh well we only have 1-AA players?" Was Cincy remotely competitive before they joined the BE? USF? They didn't even have a program before they went. If it were up to you, they wouldn't have made the jump from no program to the BE (and #2 in the country a couple times) because the talent on hand wasn't good enough to begin with.

Would we recruit better? Yes. Would we recruit well enough? I don't know that and neither do you.

Cincinnati is a good example right up until they got absolutely run off the field against Florida in the Sugar Bowl. However, it just so happens they were able to hire an excellent coach and benefit from Va Tech, BC and Miami leaving a few years earlier. Cincy will further benefit from WVU leaving the league and the illusion of them being a national program will continue.

UCONN has the attention of an entire state. UofA has the attention of an entire county.

What makes you think UCONN and Cincy will be in the BE in five years? L'Ville? Rutgers? We are decades behind these programs. All of them probably have better and bigger stadiums than we do. Do you want to add to the stadium we already aren't filling a section of? Good luck getting the money. Maybe you can take another 20 year building process, but I've seen enough. We need to start winning where we are now. Once we start winning (we will win under Bowden) and the future of college football becomes more clear, then we should talk moving.

[zippy5]

If the Big East invited us right now, you wouldn't take it? I could see passing up on CUSA, but I think it'd be partially insane to not make that jump if we had the chance.

[gozips19]

We can debate this till we're all blue in the face but the truth is Akron wants out of the MAC and is thinking of itself as better than the conference it's in. The growth the university has seen the past decade plus reflects that. If you want to see a MAC school that is content to stay in the MAC read this Can't is lame. Man I don't ever want Akron to think that way again! Akron will get out of the MAC. It's just a matter of when and to what conference. I am of the opinion that Akron is a good fit for CUSA but needs one travel partner. The question is who would that team be? If they don't have a partner can Akron boost it's budget enough to handle travel expenses? They've been positioning themselves to make this move for a long time. I applaud them in their efforts to think big.

B) B) B) B)

[GP1]

If the Big East invited us right now, you wouldn't take it? I could see passing up on CUSA, but I think it'd be partially insane to not make that jump if we had the chance.

I wouldn't make the jump to either right now. Suicide doesn't interest me. If we are good enough for the BE right now (which we aren't and the move would destroy our basketball program), in five years when Bowden has the program turned around and we are comfortable with the shake-ups in college football being over, we would be able to make a better decision. I don't think we know enough about what the BE will look like in five years to make an informed decsion. I don't see how joining a conference on the decline is the solution.

Quick decisions and panic result in the current form of the Cleveland Browns. I'm not interested in being The University of Akron Browns.

I actually think gozips19 is right on the money with not making any moves on our own. Something bold needs to be done and a couple of conferences acting together is the type of bold move I would like to see. Until then, Captain Smith needs more help on the deck.

[ZachTheZip]

The ACC will dissolve before the Big East does.

[zippy5]

I wouldn't make the jump to either right now. Suicide doesn't interest me. If we are good enough for the BE right now (which we aren't and the move would destroy our basketball program), in five years when Bowden has the program turned around and we are comfortable with the shake-ups in college football being over, we would be able to make a better decision. I don't think we know enough about what the BE will look like in five years to make an informed decsion. I don't see how joining a conference on the decline is the solution.

Quick decisions and panic result in the current form of the Cleveland Browns. I'm not interested in being The University of Akron Browns.

I actually think gozips19 is right on the money with not making any moves on our own. Something bold needs to be done and a couple of conferences acting together is the type of bold move I would like to see. Until then, Captain Smith needs more help on the deck.

Suicide? How's the MAC been working? You think after 5 years we'll have a good enough football team to compete in the Big East? We'd still get mauled until we got some BE level recruits. I don't see why we need to wait for the "shake up" to happen. We've been waiting long enough. If we have a chance, go for it.

[zippy5]

The ACC will dissolve before the Big East does.

You've been reading too many (WVU) message boards. That's not going to happen...Those guys are in a world of their own.

[GP1]

Suicide? How's the MAC been working? You think after 5 years we'll have a good enough football team to compete in the Big East? We'd still get mauled until we got some BE level recruits. I don't see why we need to wait for the "shake up" to happen. We've been waiting long enough. If we have a chance, go for it.

We want the same thing. You want it today, I want it when we are ready.

Will we have a team to compete in the BE in five years? Not if we run into their league and go at best one year of 3-8 the first 3 years. We don't have nearly the talent to compete with all of their teams right now. It would be even more losing. We need to get winning in the MAC and then turn that momentum into something else. More losing does zero for the program and gets coaches fired...coaches getting fired extends the never ending "building process". No thanks.

Some on this board have been obsessed with the BE since I started reading this board years ago. I have a feeling the BE for some would be like the good looking girl in college everyone wanted to have sex with only to find out the girl was bad in the sack once you got her there. If the BE is such a great league, why is everyone leaving?

[Captain Kangaroo]

We want the same thing. You want it today, I want it when we are ready.

Will we have a team to compete in the BE in five years? Not if we run into their league and go at best one year of 3-8 the first 3 years. We don't have nearly the talent to compete with all of their teams right now. It would be even more losing. We need to get winning in the MAC and then turn that momentum into something else. More losing does zero for the program and gets coaches fired...coaches getting fired extends the never ending "building process". No thanks.

This process has been proven effective.

Temple did not have the talent to compete in the Big East. After getting the boot, Temple entered the MAC Wellness Program and turned their life around.

Temple became a viable candidate for a better conference, and subsequently moved on.

Zips football needs to pretend it was in the Big East, and got kicked to the curb. Pretend it is starting from zero in the MAC, with a goal to get healthy over the next 4-6 years and become a viable candidate for whatever conference upgrade might present itself.