UofA's Rhodes Arena Study

[Blue & Gold]

James A. Rhodes Arena study.

[Blue & Gold]

Two interesting quotes:

The fledgling study has been under close wraps. Even UA President Luis Proenza has not seen the initial recommendations, Curtis said.

Nor has Akron Mayor Don Plusquellic, who said Monday he is disappointed that UA officials are studying the future arena without input from other government agencies or the business community.

So it definitely appears the U is wanting to work unilaterally on this project. Also,

In the meantime, UA basketball coach Keith Dambrot said he would welcome a facility that is "fan-friendly, team-friendly, in the sense of you want your fans right on the floor so they could really be into the game."

A new arena would enhance the program, Dambrot said, and aid in recruiting.

What I've put in bold is KD's way of stating that he really doesn't want an ice-arena-compatible facility, but wants a basketball-specific arena (which could also be used for concerts). This would, however, rule out hockey, ice capades & monster trucks. But we've discussed this before and come to the general conclusion that if we were to build a hockey facility, we'd be better off to have a nice, intimate, 1000-1500-seat layout for hockey. Not a 10,000-seat multi-purpose arena. This is direcrly contrary to the desires of the mayor. But I do think moving in this direction is beat for the future of both UA basketball and (potentially, eventually) UA hockey as well.

[Captain Kangaroo]

“Until it gets serious, I just have to coach my team and play within the facility we have,” he said. “I don’t think they’re at the serious level of doing something.”

That's all I need to know.

[CincyZip]

In the meantime, UA basketball coach Keith Dambrot said he would welcome a facility that is “fan-friendly, team-friendly, in the sense of you want your fans right on the floor so they could really be into the game.”

A new arena would enhance the program, Dambrot said, and aid in recruiting.

This is KD's way of stating that he really doesn't want an ice-arena-compatible facility, but wants a basketball-specific arena (which could also be used for concerts). This would, however, rule out hockey, ice capades & monster trucks. But we've discussed this before and come to the general conclusion that if we were to build a hockey facility, we'd be better off to have a nice, intimate, 1000-1500-seat layout for hockey. Not a 10,000-seat multi-purpose arena. This is direcrly contrary to the desires of the mayor. But I do think moving in this direction is beat for the future of both UA basketball and (potentially, eventually) UA hockey as well.

This has more to do with the poor setup that is Rhodes. It is well known that KD wants a student section that is big. Rhodes can not supply that.

[zipseuph]

“Until it gets serious, I just have to coach my team and play within the facility we have,” he said. “I don’t think they’re at the serious level of doing something.”

That's all I need to know.

+1

[Blue & Gold]

"Until it gets serious, I just have to coach my team and play within the facility we have," he said. "I don't think they're at the serious level of doing something."

That's all I need to know.

To that downer, another quote,

UA officials spent a decade studying the aging Rubber Bowl, located about seven miles from campus, before concluding it would cost almost as much to remodel it as to build a new facility.

It took them a decade to come to that conclusion?!?! Good grief.

[skip-zip]

“Until it gets serious, I just have to coach my team and play within the facility we have,” he said. “I don’t think they’re at the serious level of doing something.”

That's all I need to know.

Agreed. No new information in this article that I didn't know already, and nothing to get excited about right now.

[mivid12]

Agreed. No new information in this article that I didn't know already, and nothing to get excited about right now.

i'd buy club/loge season tix in a heartbeat

[Dr Z]

If KD doesn't think it's serious, then neither do I.

[Spin]

I think this is the first step in getting a new arena built. First, as a state funded university, it could be that you have to prove it is needed first. I get the impression nobody WANTS to retrofit the JAR, but that has to be in the study. "It will cost $X to renovate the JAR, and $Y to build a new arena. The new arena would generate $A more sponsorship and $B more contributions and $C more suite revenue."

THEN they will talk dollars and cents with Plusquelic. Again, to show how much it would cost the university compared to one on-campus. They didn't hire Tressel because they flt sorry for him. He, like Dr. Proenza, is good at bringing in contributions. That in itself tells me they have no intention of working with the destitute city (that lay off firefighters and policemen) on this thing.

JT has said his first project is a new arena. He's a mover, thy didn't bring him in if they weren't serious about getting it done right away. There are other projects he could be working on getting funded if that were the case.

And I bet if you asked Coach during the off-season, he would have more to say. He's a little busy this time of year with things that are going to be coming up in the next few weeks.

I think we'll be hearing a lot more in the coming months.

[Blue & Gold]

I think this is the first step in getting a new arena built. First, as a state funded university, it could be that you have to prove it is needed first. I get the impression nobody WANTS to retrofit the JAR, but that has to be in the study. "It will cost $X to renovate the JAR, and $Y to build a new arena. The new arena would generate $A more sponsorship and $B more contributions and $C more suite revenue."

THEN they will talk dollars and cents with Plusquelic. Again, to show how much it would cost the university compared to one on-campus. They didn't hire Tressel because they flt sorry for him. He, like Dr. Proenza, is good at bringing in contributions. That in itself tells me they have no intention of working with the destitute city (that lay off firefighters and policemen) on this thing.

JT has said his first project is a new arena. He's a mover, thy didn't bring him in if they weren't serious about getting it done right away. There are other projects he could be working on getting funded if that were the case.

And I bet if you asked Coach during the off-season, he would have more to say. He's a little busy this time of year with things that are going to be coming up in the next few weeks.

I think we'll be hearing a lot more in the coming months.

I agree. This article in the ABJ is a relatively big step in getting the ball rolling. The U is going to have to publicly demonstrate the need for a new arena, above and beyond the simple fact that their diehard fans simply want a new facility. This article gets the ball rolling publicly - though there are surely many steps in the process. I just hope they don't take a decade to talk it over, like the article states they did for the football stadium.

[acstorfer]

Initially I liked the thought of keeping the arena on campus. Easier for the majority of the students to get to the games. I must say I am liking the idea of bringing it downtown. It will make it easier for commuters and alumni and I like the thought of it helping downtown businesses such as restaurants and bars. It will bring more money to the university and more money to the Akron community.

As was mentioned, I can't see the University having any trouble raising the funds and government (city, state and federal) money as it will help a city which has had better days.

[GP1]

I don't care if they start building an arena 10 months from now or 10 years from now. Just don't do it with the City of Akron. A delay would be better than a union with them.

[wadszip]

I don't care if they start building an arena 10 months from now or 10 years from now. Just don't do it with the City of Akron. A delay would be better than a union with them.

Count me in as somebody who wants the university to do this on its own. And I really don't care whether it's on campus or downtown (the two now are more than ever the same). However, I don't think the university can wait 10 years to make this happen. The future of big-time college athletics is taking a quick and major turn. If the university sits back and waits, it could miss out on it and be stuck in the MAC forever ... or best-case an even more watered down version of CUSA/Mountain West (after the Big East takes even more of that league's better programs).

I think 2015 is a critical year. It's the first year Navy is joining the Big East and by that time the league will decide what direction it wants to go. If it chooses to expand further, which appears likely (no way does it pass on adding one of the Philadelphia schools, which both want in for football), Akron has to have its have its case made by then, and it doesn't have a case for inclusion without an arena. So if the fundraising efforts aren't going as well as hoped the in the next two years, and teaming with the city is the last resort to make breaking ground on a new arena by 2015 possible, the university may have to bite the bullet and give up some of its muscle. Even under that scenario, hopefully the university is able to secure enough funding where it can maintain the most control over the facility.

Unfortunately, unless Jim Tressel works some serious magic on the fundraising trail (which isn't out of the question), a university/city partnership may be what's needed to elevate Akron's athletic programs beyond the MAC.

[wadscarman]

Nor has Akron Mayor Don Plusquellic, who said Monday he is disappointed that UA officials are studying the future arena without input from other government agencies or the business community.

From my understanding, these points:

The university has been in conversations, many of them, with the city and Mayor Don. The citys position was, U of A and the city partner, U of A raise the money, city owsn the facility and lease it back to U of A. WTH. What sense does that make Mr. Mayor.

The mayor wants a hockey/multi purpose facility. Studys show, with hockey, basketball fans sit too far back from the court, something KD or no one at the university wants.

Before TW had the study done, TW went and had a personal meeting with Mayor Don and letting him know what he was doing so that the mayor didn't hear it from anyone else or from the media.

Not really sure what the Don means about being disappointed that UA is moving forward on this without input. There have been years of conversations. Yes, the mayor may be disappointed because things are not going HIS way, but stating there has been no input from other government agencies or the business community with the UA is a little far fetched.

[GP1]

The future of big-time college athletics is taking a quick and major turn.

I totally agree. It is all being driven by football right now.

My concern is this about college basketball in general and then I'll relate it to the Zips. I believe college basketball is in decline. A few ESPN folks have talked about it recently. Too many low scoring games. Not to pick on tosu, but they were ranked #3 Saturday and only scored 48 on their home court...terrible. There was a game not long ago when neither team scored 50. Dick Vitale called it terrible for college basketball and he is right. It makes college basketball Dollarr General. Players don't know how to play basketball anymore and fans still remember what a good basketball player should play like, which is why Jeremy Lin is so interesting...he actually know how to play basketball. What does the ncaa do to promote more scoring...move the 3 point line back so it is even harder to make one. The people who run the ncaa couldn't run a Boy Scout troop.

To a large extent, the ncaa is at fault for the decline in college basketball. The sooner that organization goes away, the better. They are killing the goose that pooped out the golden egg. Everything has become about the ncaa tournament and "crowning a champion". It's so bad that making the Tournament isn't even good enough for some schools. A team either has to make the Sweet 16 or the coach gets fired....complete nonsense.

How does not making or not even having a team to go deep in the Tournament hurt schools? If the game is about the Tournament, then why should fans go watch a regular season game? If the game is about going deep in the Tournament and a team is obviously not capable of doing that, then why go watch them play? Anyone notice how empty may big time college basketball arenas are now when you watch a game? It's not about the game anymore, it's about the Tournament because the ncaa needs that goose to poop out that egg every year so they can have another successful year of mismanagement.

So, moving for ward with the Zips basketball program. We have a team on the ascent when the general college basketball market is in decline. Are we in a position where it doesn't matter if we continue to improve if fans are losing interest in college basketball? I look at attendance and it makes me think that. I still can't figure out why 5,500 fans a game aren't going to watch this team. I hope this isn't the case because too many people have put too much effort to get this team to where it is today and it would be a crying shame if that happened.

This is why I think the Zips should really take their time and spend some of that time trying to figure out where the market for college basketball is going to be in 10 years. The last thing we need is a great team playing in a 10,000 seat arena with the same 4,000 fans going to the games.

[xu9697]

I totally agree. It is all being driven by football right now.

My concern is this about college basketball in general and then I'll relate it to the Zips. I believe college basketball is in decline. A few ESPN folks have talked about it recently. Too many low scoring games. Not to pick on tosu, but they were ranked #3 Saturday and only scored 48 on their home court...terrible. There was a game not long ago when neither team scored 50. Dick Vitale called it terrible for college basketball and he is right. It makes college basketball Dollarr General. Players don't know how to play basketball anymore and fans still remember what a good basketball player should play like, which is why Jeremy Lin is so interesting...he actually know how to play basketball. What does the ncaa do to promote more scoring...move the 3 point line back so it is even harder to make one. The people who run the ncaa couldn't run a Boy Scout troop.

To a large extent, the ncaa is at fault for the decline in college basketball. The sooner that organization goes away, the better. They are killing the goose that pooped out the golden egg. Everything has become about the ncaa tournament and "crowning a champion". It's so bad that making the Tournament isn't even good enough for some schools. A team either has to make the Sweet 16 or the coach gets fired....complete nonsense.

How does not making or not even having a team to go deep in the Tournament hurt schools? If the game is about the Tournament, then why should fans go watch a regular season game? If the game is about going deep in the Tournament and a team is obviously not capable of doing that, then why go watch them play? Anyone notice how empty may big time college basketball arenas are now when you watch a game? It's not about the game anymore, it's about the Tournament because the ncaa needs that goose to poop out that egg every year so they can have another successful year of mismanagement.

So, moving for ward with the Zips basketball program. We have a team on the ascent when the general college basketball market is in decline. Are we in a position where it doesn't matter if we continue to improve if fans are losing interest in college basketball? I look at attendance and it makes me think that. I still can't figure out why 5,500 fans a game aren't going to watch this team. I hope this isn't the case because too many people have put too much effort to get this team to where it is today and it would be a crying shame if that happened.

This is why I think the Zips should really take their time and spend some of that time trying to figure out where the market for college basketball is going to be in 10 years. The last thing we need is a great team playing in a 10,000 seat arena with the same 4,000 fans going to the games.

This is a great post and would be a great subject to talk about in its own thread. I think the decline in college basketball (and perhaps basketball in general), is many layered and can be deep and potentially QUITE controversial.

Just one quick thing as it relates to Akron and similar= whatever size you think the NCAA tourney field should be, the thing that partially kills Akron, CSU, Can't etc. is the fact that winning the regular season title in your league means almost NOTHING when it comes to the NCAA tourney (esp in the MAC when there is no real home court advantage). Regular season league winners should be rewarded an NCAA bid. Plain and simple. After that, figure out the rest!!! And, perhaps, if an NCAA bid WAS on the line for the regular season winner, games would see a bit of an uptick in attendance, especially as you move into late January/February.

[taxpayer]

With the obvious lack of significant interest in the Zips basketball program, other than what appears to be a core fan base of 3000 the U of A and the dedicated fan base are delusional if they are even considering an arena with more than 6000 GOOD seats. 6000 is a good number even if the Zips dreams come true and they continue to evolve into a consistent top 40 program. If the dream occurs, then demand exceeds supply, ticket prices can be increased, season tickets would become more necessary to the core group and obviously a better financial investment for whomever.

As a part of the arena review, is a survey being performed to find out who is attending the games? What demographic? Older alumni? Recent grads? Sports junkies? Students? With student attendance low, locate it near Canal Park and the nightspots. If students are in the majority, put it on campus. Serve your audience.

I will leave it to the financial & marketing guru's to determine what's the best way to pay for it. U of A owned, privately owned and operated and leased to U of A. Is such a venue a possible money maker? Unless the Zips fill the JAR on a regular basis this new arena will take someone with guts & lots of money. I don't see taxpayer monies building it and the university has other more profitable investments it could make.

[xu9697]

With the obvious lack of significant interest in the Zips basketball program, other than what appears to be a core fan base of 3000 the U of A and the dedicated fan base are delusional if they are even considering an arena with more than 6000 GOOD seats. 6000 is a good number even if the Zips dreams come true and they continue to evolve into a consistent top 40 program. If the dream occurs, then demand exceeds supply, ticket prices can be increased, season tickets would become more necessary to the core group and obviously a better financial investment for whomever.

As a part of the arena review, is a survey being performed to find out who is attending the games? What demographic? Older alumni? Recent grads? Sports junkies? Students? With student attendance low, locate it near Canal Park and the nightspots. If students are in the majority, put it on campus. Serve your audience.

I will leave it to the financial & marketing guru's to determine what's the best way to pay for it. U of A owned, privately owned and operated and leased to U of A. Is such a venue a possible money maker? Unless the Zips fill the JAR on a regular basis this new arena will take someone with guts & lots of money. I don't see taxpayer monies building it and the university has other more profitable investments it could make.

6,000 is small for their aspirations, IMHO.

7,500 seems to be a true, good minimum.

You are 100% right about the survey...find out who is coming, who wants to go, etc. I think general public/ alums would go more if the seating was better (more comfortable) and there was a bit more to do right around the arena (places to eat and drink). I think students would come if the seating was better (better spot on the side of the court) and if it was the "place to be".

[Dave in Green]

Assuming KD knows more about UA's future athletic plans than any of us, his stated preference for an arena with seating in the 6-8k range is probably an educated estimate based on multiple potential future scenarios.

For example, if the Zips stay in the MAC and continue to be an exciting team to watch with potential to win NCAA tournament games every season, something closer to 6k is probably realistic. A really nice arena of that size would likely attract at least 500 more fans per game than the JAR and perhaps sell out more than just the Can't game.

If the Zips end up in a better conference like the Big East with bigger name teams regularly visiting, and if the Zips can recruit even better players and be an even stronger team than they are now, I could see something closer to 8k making sense.

I would question any seating capacity under 6k as a sign that Zips basketball is not expected to grow, and anything over 8k as being overly optimistic and more likely not to be economically viable.

[akronad]

Back in the early 70's (Waytt Webb Era), Akron was playing D2 baskeball. At that time there were JV games at 5:30 and varsity games at 7:30. During the hey-days, they packed Memorial Hall, averaging roughly 3300-3500 per game. the Student section was the lower level. If you weren;t there by the end of the first half of the jv game, you were sitting upstairs. When it was first announced that they were looking to build a new arena on campus, everyone was excited. More and better seats, would equal more fans. The itnital plans were designed for what is now the CLE Convo. About, the same time, state money got extremely tight and politics got in the way. Cleveland got the Convo and we were relagated to what is now the JAR. From the very first game, I disliked the place and that hasn't changed in almost 30 yrs. We need to go back to a student/fan friendly facility for roughly 7,000 fans.

My opinion on funding will come lster, but I just wanted to give some of you a history of Memorial Hall & the JAR.

[zippy5]

If we went to the BE and built an 8,000 seat arena I'd be amazed.

[LZIp]

With the obvious lack of significant interest in the Zips basketball program, other than what appears to be a core fan base of 3000 the U of A and the dedicated fan base are delusional if they are even considering an arena with more than 6000 GOOD seats. 6000 is a good number even if the Zips dreams come true and they continue to evolve into a consistent top 40 program. If the dream occurs, then demand exceeds supply, ticket prices can be increased, season tickets would become more necessary to the core group and obviously a better financial investment for whomever.

As a part of the arena review, is a survey being performed to find out who is attending the games? What demographic? Older alumni? Recent grads? Sports junkies? Students? With student attendance low, locate it near Canal Park and the nightspots. If students are in the majority, put it on campus. Serve your audience.

I will leave it to the financial & marketing guru's to determine what's the best way to pay for it. U of A owned, privately owned and operated and leased to U of A. Is such a venue a possible money maker? Unless the Zips fill the JAR on a regular basis this new arena will take someone with guts & lots of money. I don't see taxpayer monies building it and the university has other more profitable investments it could make.

Didnt somebody post that we have the top 1 or 2 attendance for MAC games this season? That shows we have one of the better fan bases in the MAC. I believe the reason nobody comes to the games is because nobody wants to see us play Miami. Now the Can't St and OU games (schools that people want to actually see us play) have great attendance. I dont think we have bad fans, we have bad opponents that nobody is interested in.

[scottditzen]

Thanks for the history!

I (and an adventurous squirrel) was chilling in Memorial right before the teardown. I've gotta tell ya, those wooden seats were damn comfortable, and a zillion times better than those F-ing bleachers in the JAR.

Someone last year made a comment about it being a cool idea to host one last game there. Well, I would've drove down for that game for sure. The JAR? No allure for me whatsoever. It's photogenic on tv, I'll give it that. And it is a great facility for intramurals, I'll give it that too.

But for watching games...I hate to be negative, or worse a broken record. But our team, fans, the whole school deserves better.

If the next step is fundraising for a new place? That'll be on the phone with a donation almost immediately.

Back in the early 70's (Waytt Webb Era), Akron was playing D2 baskeball. At that time there were JV games at 5:30 and varsity games at 7:30. During the hey-days, they packed Memorial Hall, averaging roughly 3300-3500 per game. the Student section was the lower level. If you weren;t there by the end of the first half of the jv game, you were sitting upstairs. When it was first announced that they were looking to build a new arena on campus, everyone was excited. More and better seats, would equal more fans. The itnital plans were designed for what is now the CLE Convo. About, the same time, state money got extremely tight and politics got in the way. Cleveland got the Convo and we were relagated to what is now the JAR. From the very first game, I disliked the place and that hasn't changed in almost 30 yrs. We need to go back to a student/fan friendly facility for roughly 7,000 fans.

My opinion on funding will come lster, but I just wanted to give some of you a history of Memorial Hall & the JAR.

[skip-zip]

Didnt somebody post that we have the top 1 or 2 attendance for MAC games this season? That shows we have one of the better fan bases in the MAC. I believe the reason nobody comes to the games is because nobody wants to see us play Miami. Now the Can't St and OU games (schools that people want to actually see us play) have great attendance. I dont think we have bad fans, we have bad opponents that nobody is interested in.

I don't really think there's much of a difference in interest between OU and Miami. One game was a Saturday, and the other was a Wednesday.