George Thomas Article - "...Penalties play part"

[NewZipsFan]

Zips Fall Short in Thriller

Good piece, as usual, George....

[LZIp]

I am not one to place blame on officiating, but those officials took control of the game. They did it on Miami's drive before the end of the 1st half, and their final drive of the game, arguably giving them 14 points. Looking at the replays, there was probably 1 of those personal fouls that should have been called, when one of the players late hit Dysert in the head.

I hope the secondary, especially Ford, keeps up with the physical play, though. Those refs should be under review, because what happened out there wasnt right. Reviewing a penalty, only to reverse it and call a penalty on us?? You can't do that.

I get that our defense sucked. I think a large part of this was because of the constant confusion our secondary had pre-snap every play. Guys mismatched, guys left open, etc. Whether it was the coaches or the player's fault, it is inexcusable not to know your assignment.

[Lee Adams]

I am not one to place blame on officiating, but those officials took control of the game. They did it on Miami's drive before the end of the 1st half, and their final drive of the game, arguably giving them 14 points. Looking at the replays, there was probably 1 of those personal fouls that should have been called, when one of the players late hit Dysert in the head.

I hope the secondary, especially Ford, keeps up with the physical play, though. Those refs should be under review, because what happened out there wasnt right. Reviewing a penalty, only to reverse it and call a penalty on us?? You can't do that.

I get that our defense sucked. I think a large part of this was because of the constant confusion our secondary had pre-snap every play. Guys mismatched, guys left open, etc. Whether it was the coaches or the player's fault, it is inexcusable not to know your assignment.

Funny nobody else here saw that. You're right.

[uhgrad2002]

I think those penalties aimed at preventing blows to the head need to go both ways. When a ball carrier lowers his head so far that the defender cannot help but hit his head they ought to call the penalty on the offensive player for leading with his helmet.

[Hilltopper]

There needs to be an exception for incidental contact. If the refs are going to call a penalty every time two players have helmet to helmet contact, the games are going to suck. If not, what would prevent a ball carrier from lowering his head and looking for contact on every play.

[InTheZone]

There needs to be an exception for incidental contact. If the refs are going to call a penalty every time two players have helmet to helmet contact, the games are going to suck. If not, what would prevent a ball carrier from lowering his head and looking for contact on every play.

Helmet to helmet contact is allowed on a ball carrier. The flags come when helmet to helmet contact is made on a "defenseless" player, which would be a quarterback with his eyes down the field who hasn't declared himself a runner or a reciever attempting to make a catch or running a route in the open field. If a runner puts his head down and bulls forward you can still crack him in the noggin, though there's a push to change that, which would be absolutely ridiculous.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Helmet to helmet contact is allowed on a ball carrier. The flags come when helmet to helmet contact is made on a "defenseless" player, which would be a quarterback with his eyes down the field who hasn't declared himself a runner or a reciever attempting to make a catch or running a route in the open field. If a runner puts his head down and bulls forward you can still crack him in the noggin, though there's a push to change that, which would be absolutely ridiculous.

These personal foul calls need to be reviewable. It is painfully obvious that the referees cannot make an accurate judgement on the field.

Yeah, I know...it'll further delay an already lengthening college football game...there are already enough reviews...I don't really care. The refs cannot make this call correctly with even a 50% accuracy rate. If you can't put a good clean lick on a WR running a 5 yard slant over the middle without being penalized 15 yards, college football becomes unwatchable.

[NewZipsFan]

These personal foul calls need to be reviewable. It is painfully obvious that the referees cannot make an accurate judgement on the field.

Yeah, I know...it'll further delay an already lengthening college football game...there are already enough reviews...I don't really care. The refs cannot make this call correctly with even a 50% accuracy rate. If you can't put a good clean lick on a WR running a 5 yard slant over the middle without being penalized 15 yards, college football becomes unwatchable.

Why aren't we talking about the BLOWN pass interference call on Pratt??? They call interference -- BECAUSE the defender pushed him out of bounds with the ball in the air - then reversed the call by saying that "the receiver went out of bounds"... ???

Say WHAT????

[johnnyzip84]

Why aren't we talking about the BLOWN pass interference call on Pratt??? They call interference -- BECAUSE the defender pushed him out of bounds with the ball in the air - then reversed the call by saying that "the receiver went out of bounds"... ???

Say WHAT????

I had wondered the same thing on that one. I guess I'd need to see a replay before knowing exactly when he was forced out (and if he accidentally stepped out earlier).

[g-mann17]

Why aren't we talking about the BLOWN pass interference call on Pratt??? They call interference -- BECAUSE the defender pushed him out of bounds with the ball in the air - then reversed the call by saying that "the receiver went out of bounds"... ???

Say WHAT????

Horrible, officiating as a whole stunk on Saturday, that one call was blatant stupidity, but we ended up scoring the very next play so no harm done.

I think the worst call of the day was Miami's final drive, receiver makes a catch, Gilmer is standing his ground, the receiver's momentum carries him into an already positioned Gilmer, Gilmer absorbs the blow and pushes forward slightly taking the Miami guy off his feet. Flag flies. What? The receiver ran into Gilmer, what is a defender supposed to do, avoid contact? How is that football?!

[GP1]

These personal foul calls need to be reviewable. It is painfully obvious that the referees cannot make an accurate judgement on the field.

It depends on how they are being asked to administer the game. Going back to another post I made.... Refs are charged by their leagues to administer the head to head rule in a way that sometimes does not include actually seeing the penalty take place. When refs are asked to throw flags to change the culture of the game because of what they might have seen, it cuts to the integrity of the game. Safety will increase and integrity will decrease.

Basically, it is this. If you aren't sure whether or not you saw holding, don't call it. If you aren't sure whether or not you saw head to head contact, throw a flag because we have to get control of the game. There is a huge difference in the two. There is no guarantee that with the current administration guidelines of the h2h rule, a replay would overturn it.

What they are doing is going to work long term. It will change the game. In a few years, there will be many fewer head to head hits. Coaches will find better ways to coach players in this aspect of the game and the players will get better as well. Between now and then though, we are going to have to watch a lot of crap. Zips fans saw a big pile of crap last Saturday.

[Zips Win!]

Why aren't we talking about the BLOWN pass interference call on Pratt??? They call interference -- BECAUSE the defender pushed him out of bounds with the ball in the air - then reversed the call by saying that "the receiver went out of bounds"... ???

Say WHAT????

Disagree.

I thought it was clearly a hold before getting pushed out. Should have resulted in a 5 yard penalty and first down...not what we got..

[NewZipsFan]

Disagree.

I thought it was clearly a hold before getting pushed out. Should have resulted in a 5 yard penalty and first down...not what we got..

So what are you disagreeing with?? Sounds like you agree?

[NewZipsFan]

It depends on how they are being asked to administer the game. Going back to another post I made.... Refs are charged by their leagues to administer the head to head rule in a way that sometimes does not include actually seeing the penalty take place. When refs are asked to throw flags to change the culture of the game because of what they might have seen, it cuts to the integrity of the game. Safety will increase and integrity will decrease.

Basically, it is this. If you aren't sure whether or not you saw holding, don't call it. If you aren't sure whether or not you saw head to head contact, throw a flag because we have to get control of the game. There is a huge difference in the two. There is no guarantee that with the current administration guidelines of the h2h rule, a replay would overturn it.

What they are doing is going to work long term. It will change the game. In a few years, there will be many fewer head to head hits. Coaches will find better ways to coach players in this aspect of the game and the players will get better as well. Between now and then though, we are going to have to watch a lot of crap. Zips fans saw a big pile of crap last Saturday.

What was also very disconcerting was the fact that the line judge on Miami's sideline was the one throwing those flags.. Usually, when there is a personal foul - you see laundry all over the field (whether its the fact that the officials ALL actually see the penalty - or that they are "covering" each other - I don't know) ... but we saw ONE flag on each of those personal fouls - and I believe they were all from the same official.

[Zips Win!]

So what are you disagreeing with?? Sounds like you agree?

I saw a blatant hold, then the receiver went out of bounds, came back in and then touched the ball...maybe interference while going out of bounds as well..

If the a holding call was made instead of PI would that have made a difference in the down and placement of the ball?

[Dave in Green]

What was also very disconcerting was the fact that the line judge on Miami's sideline was the one throwing those flags.. Usually, when there is a personal foul - you see laundry all over the field (whether its the fact that the officials ALL actually see the penalty - or that they are "covering" each other - I don't know) ... but we saw ONE flag on each of those personal fouls - and I believe they were all from the same official.

I believe I saw exactly what you saw. No wonder the Zips kept trying to have 12 men on the field. They kept thinking they saw 12 men playing against them from the Miami side of the field.

[skip-zip]

Why aren't we talking about the BLOWN pass interference call on Pratt??? They call interference -- BECAUSE the defender pushed him out of bounds with the ball in the air - then reversed the call by saying that "the receiver went out of bounds"... ???

Say WHAT????

A reciever being out of bounds, and therefore being, by rule, ineligible to catch the ball, IS reviewable.

On the other hand, pass interference is NOT reviewable.

I'm in complete agreement with Captain that these head-to-head personal fouls MUST be reviewed. 15-yards tacked on to the end of a play is too great of a loss for the the officials not to be certain that the call is correct. And as I said in another post, it is going to ruin college football if they continue to make errors in making that call.

[NewZipsFan]

A reciever being out of bounds, and therefore being, by rule, ineligible to catch the ball, IS reviewable.

On the other hand, pass interference is NOT reviewable.

I'm in complete agreement with Captain that these head-to-head personal fouls MUST be reviewed. 15-yards tacked on to the end of a play is too great of a loss for the the officials not to be certain that the call is correct. And as I said in another post, it is going to ruin college football if they continue to make errors in making that call.

But the interference was the ACT OF PUSHING PRATT OUT OF BOUNDS....

[Dave in Green]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? It doesn't matter who started it, it only matters who was caught. For some reason, the Zips got caught by the officials Saturday more than Miami players, no matter who started it. Pratt's a smart player. He didn't run out of bounds on his own. In fact, the Miami defensive backs were forcing the Zips' receivers toward the sidelines throughout the game. Might have been a case of veteran players taking advantage of less experienced players. More lessons learned. Things like this will continuously improve throughout the season because we have a smart coaching staff that won't let the same mistakes be made over and over again.