Luis Proenza to retire

[zestycoyote]

First of all, he's qualified to teach classes at the university, as someone with a Masters in Education. He's also qualified to be an athletic director, and even has previous experience doing so. To say the only way he qualified to contribute to the university is as a football coach is an ignorant statement.

Second, the University of Akron is a research university. Undergrad education has not been the primary goal of UA since its days as a city college.

Enough said.

[akzipper]

I heard UA will be checking ZipsNation to decide the next president, so all of this arguing is really going to make a difference...

[Dave in Green]

@zestycoyote, here's what I know: I personally know the contacts @Hilltopper has at UA outside of the athletic department, and they are high enough in the executive ranks to have proven in the past to be solid sources of valid, high-level information. I know from what you've posted here in the past that you are a grad student in English at UA. I know from what @GP1 has posted here in the past that he's a professional salesman who's always trying to convince everyone to buy whatever it is he may happen to be selling at the moment.

While I respect everyone's right to express their own opinions, I normally place more weight on intelligently expressed thoughts based in fact from those with a proven track record and who aren't always trying to sell something. I also usually discount opinions that rely on insulting and belittling others. In the past I've considered you to be a solid contributor to ZN.o, offering thoughtful opinions without expressing insulting disrespect for others as you've done here with @Hilltopper. In this case, @Hilltopper was not expressing his opinion, pushing a personal agenda or trying to sell something, but merely sharing with other Zips fans what he heard from his proven UA executive sources. Shooting the messenger has never been considered a productive strategy.

[zestycoyote]

@zestycoyote, here's what I know: I personally know the contacts @Hilltopper has at UA outside of the athletic department, and they are high enough in the executive ranks to have proven in the past to be solid sources of valid, high-level information. I know from what you've posted here in the past that you are a grad student in English at UA. I know from what @GP1 has posted here in the past that he's a professional salesman who's always trying to convince everyone to buy whatever it is he may happen to be selling at the moment.

While I respect everyone's right to express their own opinions, I normally place more weight on intelligently expressed thoughts based in fact from those with a proven track record and who aren't always trying to sell something. I also usually discount opinions that rely on insulting and belittling others. In the past I've considered you to be a solid contributor to ZN.o, offering thoughtful opinions without expressing insulting disrespect for others as you've done here with @Hilltopper. In this case, @Hilltopper was not expressing his opinion, pushing a personal agenda or trying to sell something, but merely sharing with other Zips fans what he heard from his proven UA executive sources. Shooting the messenger has never been considered a productive strategy.

Not shooting the messenger. The information can be from high-up sources or not, but the concept is still no good. The idea of UA hiring Tressel, a football coach with a MA in education, as the next president of our university is ludicrous. Anyone entertaining that idea is also ludicrous.

/endrant

[GP1]

Not shooting the messenger. The information can be from high-up sources or not, but the concept is still no good. The idea of UA hiring Tressel, a football coach with a MA in education, as the next president of our university is ludicrous. Anyone entertaining that idea is also ludicrous.

You are doing a good job of cutting through the crap zestycoyote. Bad ideas are bad ideas regardless of where they come from. Don't let Dave, and the rest of the lifelong institutional defenders, dissuade you from expressing good points. Also, don't let Dave talk down to you the way he just did. From what I know of him, he spent his life hiding in corporate America. I spent a long time in corporate America and I know a survivor when I hear or read one. They say a lot, but of little value and know less. Some of my best friends are corporate survivors. One can't swing a dead cat in a corporate office without hitting a survivor.

Anyhow...This really isn't about him only having a Masters Degree to me. The crap some are trying to shovel down our throats is somehow a guy with extremely limited experience in university administration is qualified to run our University and the mountain of responsibility that goes along with it. There is almost no history showing a football coach has the ability to run a major university. There is also little measurable evidence the candidate in question is performing his job either well or poorly. Tressel may in fact be doing his job very well. Even if he is, I fail to see a wide range of experiences that would lead me to think he would be qualified to be President.

When the next President is hired, folks should have the feeling that the person is well qualified for the position upon hearing their background. We shouldn't have the feeling the person will need some time to adjust to the new responsibilities. If Tressel never adjusted to the position, it would be a monumental task to get those who thought it was a good idea to hire him to admit they were wrong and change course. There is far more downside to hiring Tressel than upside.

I find it hard to believe the Board of Trustees is so full of incompetents that they would promote Tressel.

[ZachTheZip]

I find it hard to believe the Board of Trustees is so full of incompetents that they would promote Tressel.

Really? Look at some of the hires they've approved in the past five or so years. The trustees that brought us Proenza are long gone.

I'm worried that they hire someone far less competent than Tressel.

[Dave in Green]

@zestycoyote, sorry, but saying that anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is being ludicrous does not fall into the category of reasonable and intelligent discussion. We should encourage, not discourage, others expressing their opinions because we may learn something that could cause us to better formulate our own opinions. From what I see, no one is arguing the point that ex-football coaches with master's degrees in education represent a deep pool of potential university presidents. On the other hand, a few exceptional people from many different professions may be as well suited for the job as the traditional PhD academic lifer.

Discussion on the changing attitudes about hiring non-traditional university presidents is fairly extensive in the academic world. For example, a 2012 story in Inside Higher Ed called Searching for an Answer gives specific examples and reasons for the increasing number of non-traditional university presidents. And the same trend has been going on in Canada, as documented in this 2009 story called Another University President Without a Ph.D. The question should not be whether an ex-football coach with a master's degree in education is qualified to run a university, but whether or not Jim Tressel is qualified. His performance in his current position as a university VP should be a primary consideration, same as it should be for any other candidate.

[Dave in Green]

@GP1, it's really hilarious watching you try to sell snake oil about me when you have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't work for a big corporation until I was in my 30s. They came after me because I had first established my own reputation with my own small business. A second big corporation came after me because of my performance and reputation at the first corporation. When I left the corporate world I became a partner in establishing another successful small business. Go peddle your imaginary corporate survivor profile elsewhere.

[Sergeant Zip]

And what was his thought on the matter?

Jeremy Schaap on hiring Tressel.

[Blue & Gold]

Jeremy Schaap on hiring Tressel.

Thanks, Sarge.

Here's an article from the 8/26 ABJ: Parts of RooTown are Rooting for Jim Tressel to Lead University of Akron.

[Zipmeister]

@GP1, it's really hilarious watching you try to sell snake oil about me when you have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't work for a FORTUNE 500 corporation until I was in my 30s. They came after me because I had first established my own reputation with my own small business. A second FORTUNE 500 corporation came after me because of my performance and reputation at the first FORTUNE 500 corporation. When I left the corporate world I became a partner in establishing another successful small business. Go peddle your imaginary corporate survivor profile elsewhere.

Fixed it for you.

You're still terribly misinformed on this issue, but there is no sense in hiding your light under a bushel basket.

[zestycoyote]

Thanks, Sarge.

Here's an article from the 8/26 ABJ: Parts of RooTown are Rooting for Jim Tressel to Lead University of Akron.

ABJ is obviously rooting for Tressel with that lede. I'm glad Tressel is blue collar and doesn't spit on custodians, but that still doesn't make him a qualified candidate. The professors quoted in the story must need more material for their tenure application. What an embarrassment...

[zestycoyote]

@zestycoyote, sorry, but saying that anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion is being ludicrous does not fall into the category of reasonable and intelligent discussion. We should encourage, not discourage, others expressing their opinions because we may learn something that could cause us to better formulate our own opinions. From what I see, no one is arguing the point that ex-football coaches with master's degrees in education represent a deep pool of potential university presidents. On the other hand, a few exceptional people from many different professions may be as well suited for the job as the traditional PhD academic lifer.

Discussion on the changing attitudes about hiring non-traditional university presidents is fairly extensive in the academic world. For example, a 2012 story in Inside Higher Ed called Searching for an Answer gives specific examples and reasons for the increasing number of non-traditional university presidents. And the same trend has been going on in Canada, as documented in this 2009 story called Another University President Without a Ph.D. The question should not be whether an ex-football coach with a master's degree in education is qualified to run a university, but whether or not Jim Tressel is qualified. His performance in his current position as a university VP should be a primary consideration, same as it should be for any other candidate.

If you're bringing in Canadian universities, perhaps you should try getting a degree from one and then try to get a job in the United States. Standards are not as high and the degrees are not as respected worldwide.

If you want the university to hire a MBA and turn UA into a full-on community college, fine. But hire the MBA, not the coach with a useless MA and less than a year of higher education experience. Tressel's performance so far is irrelevant—he doesn't have enough regardless to take on such a high profile position.

[lance99]

I watched this video and I have a hard time believing that Dr Proenza said "why respect rules we don't like."

[Dr Z]

Jeremy Schaap on hiring Tressel.

Bingo. Thanks for posting SZ.

[Big Zip]

I once heard Noel Leathers (some of the old timers may remember him) say leading a University was a lot like leading an Elephant...you could nudge a little left or a little right but you weren't going to make that elephant completely turn around. At least it was something like that....point being the impact a single person can have on a University isn't as big as you think it.

The plans (albeit not exactly) to change UA into the campus it has become were already created when Dr. Proenza got here. He get the credit for having the balls to finally implement it but the plans were in place in long before.

A President's role is a leadership role but also a role that allows them to lobby government agencies and government officials for the needs of your University. Dr. Proenza had a lot of experience in this realm when he came to UA and was well respected.

Like it or not a person like Tressel (although not the higher education influence) has influence and his words/presence will get you an audience with many people. If he was hired and put the right people in key positions beneath him he could succeed. I think he is smart enough to know where he is deficient and to let others take over.

Finally, GP1 I may be incorrect but I do believe you have voiced a displeasure with the way higher education is run from athletics, to graduation rates, to student loans. With this in mind, perhaps an individual that doesn't come to the job with all of those preconceived notions in his head and a willingness to do something or try something different is a viable solution. If you don't like the current state of higher education I would think you would cheer for a different way of thinking about it and a different person to lead them. Just a thought...I'm sure you'll let me know you want someone from the business world which is fine but my thought is a different type of President with a different background may be what the doctor ordered.

[zestycoyote]

I once heard Noel Leathers (some of the old timers may remember him) say leading a University was a lot like leading an Elephant...you could nudge a little left or a little right but you weren't going to make that elephant completely turn around. At least it was something like that....point being the impact a single person can have on a University isn't as big as you think it.

The plans (albeit not exactly) to change UA into the campus it has become were already created when Dr. Proenza got here. He get the credit for having the balls to finally implement it but the plans were in place in long before.

A President's role is a leadership role but also a role that allows them to lobby government agencies and government officials for the needs of your University. Dr. Proenza had a lot of experience in this realm when he came to UA and was well respected.

Like it or not a person like Tressel (although not the higher education influence) has influence and his words/presence will get you an audience with many people. If he was hired and put the right people in key positions beneath him he could succeed. I think he is smart enough to know where he is deficient and to let others take over.

Finally, GP1 I may be incorrect but I do believe you have voiced a displeasure with the way higher education is run from athletics, to graduation rates, to student loans. With this in mind, perhaps an individual that doesn't come to the job with all of those preconceived notions in his head and a willingness to do something or try something different is a viable solution. If you don't like the current state of higher education I would think you would cheer for a different way of thinking about it and a different person to lead them. Just a thought...I'm sure you'll let me know you want someone from the business world which is fine but my thought is a different type of President with a different background may be what the doctor ordered.

We don't need Tressel as president to get us money from the government. He can do that in his current position. Proenza raised money and rebuilt UA from the ground up. An infrastructure upgrade was necessary to make UA look like a university. Now UA needs an academic to focus on education so it can act like one.

Different thinking about university leadership has already happened. That's why there are MBAs cutting staff and paying professional educators less than Chipotle pays burrito rollers. Different thinking never equals better education—just more profit. In case everyone has forgotten, the point of a university isn't to turn a profit—it is to educate. Tax payers can whine and whine and whine about funding higher education, but just remember: an uneducated society isn't worth anything.

[Dave in Green]

@Blue & Gold, thanks for posting that link. The ABJ article was pretty balanced in reporting both positive and negative viewpoints about Tressel, same as we see on ZN.o and elsewhere (no surprise there). I thought the story did a good job of briefly outlining some of the challenges UA faces in the current and future environment, such as the declining enrollment trend being due in part to the surge of adults into college in the recession being largely over and high school population statewide continuing to fall. Whoever becomes UA's next president will have major new challenges to overcome. As traditions fall, non-traditional thinking becomes a bigger asset.

[UAZipster0305]

@Blue & Gold, thanks for posting that link. The ABJ article was pretty balanced in reporting both positive and negative viewpoints about Tressel, same as we see on ZN.o and elsewhere (no surprise there). I thought the story did a good job of briefly outlining some of the challenges UA faces in the current and future environment, such as the declining enrollment trend being due in part to the surge of adults into college in the recession being largely over and high school population statewide continuing to fall. Whoever becomes UA's next president will have major new challenges to overcome. As traditions fall, non-traditional thinking becomes a bigger asset.

I didn't think the article was balanced at all. It is a puff piece, and the slant is evident from the title.

Tressel has a brand that is popular in Ohio. He also has some valuable leadership and communication skills. I think he would be great at recruiting major donations. JT also has my vote for Athletic Director to replace Wistricill.

However, Tressel knows nothing about working with faculty or running a University. He also has no knowledge about research.

As an alum, I would be embarrassed to have him as President. To me, it would reinforce the idea that sports are the primary focus at UA and that it is a party school. It would undermine the great academic programs and dramatic increase in research productivity that has occurred during Dr. Proenza's tenure.

[legendofzippy]

Tressel was on the Dan Patrick Show last week. If you get the podcast, it's from 8/23, hour 2. He mostly talked about coaching, but he mentions Akron a lot. Once he starts talking, I start changing my mind on if he could be a good leader for the University. Glad we have him at any rate.

[gozips19]

And what was his thought on the matter?

Sorry for the delay

click for thoughts

[GP1]

Finally, GP1 I may be incorrect but I do believe you have voiced a displeasure with the way higher education is run from athletics, to graduation rates, to student loans. With this in mind, perhaps an individual that doesn't come to the job with all of those preconceived notions in his head and a willingness to do something or try something different is a viable solution. If you don't like the current state of higher education I would think you would cheer for a different way of thinking about it and a different person to lead them. Just a thought...I'm sure you'll let me know you want someone from the business world which is fine but my thought is a different type of President with a different background may be what the doctor ordered.

While I agree with you that I am obviously the best choice for the next President, I am not willing to give up my business and life in the Carolinas to do so.

Another interesting article on universities.

[johnnyzip84]

The Vest is among 19 official applicants.

The list

[ZachTheZip]

The Vest is among 19 official applicants.

Very few applicants that look exciting on that list.

The presidency of the university involves so much more than academic knowledge. They have to be a fundraiser, a cheerleader, and a leader that won't take crap from other state universities that work to deny UA resources out of spite (I can't find the exact quote, but Gordon Gee has admitted to doing this while at OSU, to protect his university's status at the expense of the health of the overall state university system).

Most of all, they can't be someone who wants to take the university in a direction that would jeopardize or reverse the progress made over the last decade. No going back to being a clone of Cleveland State.

[Hilltopper]

I wonder how many university presidents have a big wardrobe of sweater vests. Will our new one be a trend setter in that field? It looks like we are going to find out. Does Vegas lay odds on this appointment? I could make a lot of money!