South Carolina Version 2.0

[Balsy]

  Dave in Green said:

Nobody believes that Keith Dambrot is the best college basketball coach in America -- not himself, his wife, his children or even his dog. A lot of people, including me, believe that he's the best college basketball coach for UA. Any coach as good or better than Coach Dambrot but without connections and loyalty to UA would be gone to a higher-paying school the minute the Zips had a successful season or two. A string of coaches would likely produce more who are worse than Coach Dambrot than better, given the level of resources UA allocates to the program.

Nope, the only way the Zips get 7 consecutive 22+ win seasons and 7 consecutive trips to the conference championship game is with Coach Dambrot. If it was easy, a lot of coaches would replicate that. Try making a list of all the D1 coaches in the country who've done it, then give them a call and see if any would be willing to come to UA and sit in Coach Dambrot's plush office at the JAR for the same salary. Is it worth playing musical chairs with coaches for a chance at one who might possibly lead the Zips past the first round of the NCAA tournament one season only to move on to a better job offer with the possibility that his replacement puts the Zips in the MAC cellar?

Is it fair to criticize Coach Dambrot for things we perceive he could do better? Heck yes. The only thing not open to criticism is perfection, which means that everything is open to criticism. But there's a huge difference between educated, constructive criticism and sour grapes potshotting. An honest discussion requires that each of us acknowledges that we are fans and not great experts on all the technical intricacies of college basketball. We also must acknowledge that we don't have access to all the facts about individual members of the coaching staff and the players. At that point we can begin having a reasonable and respectful discussion about what we think might be happening and what we think might be ways to improve things.

+1

[Dr Z]

Marshall and Akron will have something in common when they play this Thursday.

When tickets went on sale this year, I bought these as a xmas gift...and not a white elephant exchange.

[Valpo Zip]

  Dave in Green said:

Nobody believes that Keith Dambrot is the best college basketball coach in America -- not himself, his wife, his children or even his dog. A lot of people, including me, believe that he's the best college basketball coach for UA. Any coach as good or better than Coach Dambrot but without connections and loyalty to UA would be gone to a higher-paying school the minute the Zips had a successful season or two. A string of coaches would likely produce more who are worse than Coach Dambrot than better, given the level of resources UA allocates to the program.

Nope, the only way the Zips get 7 consecutive 22+ win seasons and 7 consecutive trips to the conference championship game is with Coach Dambrot. If it was easy, a lot of coaches would replicate that. Try making a list of all the D1 coaches in the country who've done it, then give them a call and see if any would be willing to come to UA and sit in Coach Dambrot's plush office at the JAR for the same salary. Is it worth playing musical chairs with coaches for a chance at one who might possibly lead the Zips past the first round of the NCAA tournament one season only to move on to a better job offer with the possibility that his replacement puts the Zips in the MAC cellar?

Is it fair to criticize Coach Dambrot for things we perceive he could do better? Heck yes. The only thing not open to criticism is perfection, which means that everything is open to criticism. But there's a huge difference between educated, constructive criticism and sour grapes potshotting. An honest discussion requires that each of us acknowledges that we are fans and not great experts on all the technical intricacies of college basketball. We also must acknowledge that we don't have access to all the facts about individual members of the coaching staff and the players. At that point we can begin having a reasonable and respectful discussion about what we think might be happening and what we think might be ways to improve things.

Bravo!

[Hilltopper]

  Dr Z said:

Marshall and Akron will have something in common when they play this Thursday.

When tickets went on sale this year, I bought these as a xmas gift...and not a white elephant exchange.

Maybe SC is better than we thought?

[Zip76]

  Hilltopper said:

Maybe SC is better than we thought?

^^ What he said. Deep breaths people.

[akronzips71]

I watched the Toledo - #16 Kentucy game.

Toledo gave them a workout. They are NOT bad at all.

[tomzip]

  akronzips71 said:

I watched the Toledo - #16 Kentucy game.

Toledo gave them a workout. They are NOT bad at all.

I have not seen them play, they would be the favorite right now to take the MAC in Cleveland. I think a focus this year is to look towards next year if we can get Tree and Harney back and get some chemistry going without Zeke. This would be the transition year. I wasn't planning on going to high school gym, I mean JAR tonight, but I may make my way down there to see what this mess has become and see if there is a way out.

[Derrt]

I didn't know they played Kentuckey. I know Toledo played the MIGHTY Kansas Jayhawks last night.

[a-zip]

I realize this is an open forum and anyone can say whatever they want but it would be nice if people put things in perspective and looked at the big picture before reacting and calling for people’s jobs. In the past year there have been posts calling for the heads of the AD, TB, JE and now KD (oh, and some people even call Tressel incompetent). I personally think the school and athletic program are in as good a shape as they have ever been. The campus looks beautiful, the facilities are great and we have tremendous coaches and administrators that most schools in the country would die to have (I am not just talking about MAC schools). Here are my thoughts;

FOOTBALL – we got off to a rough start but played an incredibly tough schedule. TB talked about how good UCF was (and they are), their QB is projected to be drafted 3rd in the NFL Draft and are playing in a big bowl game. Michigan, never been more proud of our team, would have loved to have seen a W the team deserved . Lousiana, beat Tulane in their bowl game. BG – bowl game, Ohio – bowl game, N Ill – bowl game, Ball St – bowl game, Toledo (we knocked them out of a bowl game). The team improved dramatically, attendance sucked, BUT people were complaining about TB, play calling, etc.

FUTBALL – People were saying JE was a mistake, we should have gone for a high profile guy with our soccer stature. We struggled early, couldn’t hit the back of the net but eventually started scoring goal towards in the end (which I attribute to a great coach making adjustments and coaching his players). Our soccer team had 12 freshman because our guys get DRAFTED. That means tough rebuilding every year and likely slow starts to get everyone to gel. We were 17-4-1, undefeated against the Big 10, ACC and made it to the second round of the NCAAs (after getting hosed by the NCAA on seeding). Pretty damn good I say.

BASKETBALL – Here we go again, people are questioning KD now (the best BBall coach we have EVER had). We have played 7 games in 14 days, traveling from Akron, to Hawaii to South Carolina (brutal schedule!!!). Two of these early losses came to Iowa State (12 rank) and S. Carolina (who I bet we will see in postseason this year). Folks, the team has got to be tired and rightfully so. You want to talk about a young team…..we have ; 1 senior, 4 juniors (Harney/Tree included here), 4 sophomores and 4 freshman. In addition to that we lost arguably the most dominant center the MAC has ever had and a very good point guard who, if he wasn’t such an idiot, would be a senior right now (needless to say a glaring weakness on this team). Is that KD’s fault?

THE ATHLETIC DEPT – We have some of the best coaches in the NCAA (I include women and men’s sports in that statement) and gorgeous facilities. To my knowledge, contracts are in good shape with all of them. Folks, the caliber of our coaches vs the salaries some of them could be making are way out of whack. We should be happy to have them all and it would be nice if they were given support from the fans for their hard work. I guarantee you most of them could do better. As mentioned by someone else earlier, most successful MAC coaches are gone after a year or two of success, we have been able to keep ours. BTW - Caleb did not leave for another NCAA team (and I guarantee you he was courted by many to include his alma mater). One of my first posts on this board I stated keeping good coaches is the key to success in the MAC so hats off to TW.

So, in my opinion things are just fine, not perfect, but just fine. The only disappointment I have is with the fan base that seems to look for excuses to not support the teams……not enough wins, bleacher seats, bad bathrooms, etc. etc. The campus is a fun place to be, the teams deserve more support………if they get the support the coaches will be more inclined to stay, top recruits will want to come here, the teams will get even better and maybe there would be justification to build a new arena to match the Info. So put your OSU jerseys in the bottom of the drawer and go support YOUR team Akron!!

[Zipmeister]

  a-zip said:

I realize this is an open forum and anyone can say whatever they want but it would be nice if people put things in perspective and looked at the big picture before reacting and calling for people’s jobs. In the past year there have been posts calling for the heads of the AD, TB, JE and now KD (oh, and some people even call Tressel incompetent). I personally think the school and athletic program are in as good a shape as they have ever been. The campus looks beautiful, the facilities are great and we have tremendous coaches and administrators that most schools in the country would die to have (I am not just talking about MAC schools). Here are my thoughts;

FOOTBALL – we got off to a rough start but played an incredibly tough schedule. TB talked about how good UCF was (and they are), their QB finished 3rd in the Heisman voting and are playing in a big bowl game. Michigan, never been more proud of our team, would have loved to have seen a W the team deserved . Lousiana, beat Tulane in their bowl game. BG – bowl game, Ohio – bowl game, N Ill – bowl game, Ball St – bowl game, Toledo (we knocked them out of a bowl game). The team improved dramatically, attendance sucked, BUT people were complaining about TB, play calling, etc.

FUTBALL – People were saying JE was a mistake, we should have gone for a high profile guy with our soccer stature. We struggled early, couldn’t hit the back of the net but eventually started scoring goal towards in the end (which I attribute to a great coach making adjustments and coaching his players). Our soccer team had 12 freshman because our guys get DRAFTED. That means tough rebuilding every year and likely slow starts to get everyone to gel. We were 17-4-1, undefeated against the Big 10, ACC and made it to the second round of the NCAAs (after getting hosed by the NCAA on seeding). Pretty damn good I say.

BASKETBALL – Here we go again, people are questioning KD now (the best BBall coach we have EVER had). We have played 7 games in 14 days, traveling from Akron, to Hawaii to South Carolina (brutal schedule!!!). Two of these early losses came to Iowa State (12 rank) and S. Carolina (who I bet we will see in postseason this year). Folks, the team has got to be tired and rightfully so. You want to talk about a young team…..we have ; 1 senior, 4 juniors (Harney/Tree included here), 4 sophomores and 4 freshman. In addition to that we lost arguably the most dominant center the MAC has ever had and a very good point guard who, if he wasn’t such an idiot, would be a senior right now (needless to say a glaring weakness on this team). Is that KD’s fault?

THE ATHLETIC DEPT – We have some of the best coaches in the NCAA (I include women and men’s sports in that statement) and gorgeous facilities. To my knowledge, contracts are in good shape with all of them. Folks, the caliber of our coaches vs the salaries some of them could be making are way out of whack. We should be happy to have them all and it would be nice if they were given support from the fans for their hard work. I guarantee you most of them could do better. As mentioned by someone else earlier, most successful MAC coaches are gone after a year or two of success, we have been able to keep ours. BTW - Caleb did not leave for another NCAA team (and I guarantee you he was courted by many to include his alma mater). One of my first posts on this board I stated keeping good coaches is the key to success in the MAC so hats off to TW.

So, in my opinion things are just fine, not perfect, but just fine. The only disappointment I have is with the fan base that seems to look for excuses to not support the teams……not enough wins, bleacher seats, bad bathrooms, etc. etc. The campus is a fun place to be, the teams deserve more support………if they get the support the coaches will be more inclined to stay, top recruits will want to come here, the teams will get even better and maybe there would be justification to build a new arena to match the Info. So put your OSU jerseys in the bottom of the drawer and go support YOUR team Akron!!

PLUS, all the toilets in our facilities have doors.

[Zipmeister]

  I speak truth said:

I didn't know they played Kentuckey. I know Toledo played the MIGHTY Kansas Jayhawks last night.

Hey, let's cut 71 some slack here. All them schools that begin with K can be confusing for us old guys.

[gozips19]

Haven't had a chance to read every post so if this has already been said I'm sorry for the repost. Having watched most of Akron's games this year it is very apparent that if the team isn't scoring it will grossly effect their defense. I can't remember a KD coached team where this has been more true. If the team is going to start playing better they need Evans, Jake, and Reggie to start knocking down three's more consistently. When they are missing shots it allows defenses to sag and completely take out Akron's bigs. While he may not be Akron's best player, Evans may be the most important. He needs to Figure out how to set up an offense fast or this team is in trouble. Jake looks like he's lost some confidence. Can't believe I'm saying this but I'd like to see more Deji. Lots of talk about players "tuning" KD out and I noticed Harney not even paying attention in the 2nd half during a time out. Don't know what he did but he only played 6 min last game. They need more from him. Tree has mentioned he's the leader and the team feeds off his energy. I'm sure this was the case in the last game as he was pouting for much of the game. I don't know what it will take to turn this team around. Seems like someone in the backcourt needs to step up and be the quarterback of the team. Just not sure if that player is on the Zips this year. Looking forward to see how the team responds against Marshall. I agree that will be a good benchmark game for where the team is heading into conference play.

[Dr Z]

  Hilltopper said:

Maybe SC is better than we thought?

I can't speak for "we", but I think SC is a team that lost to Manhattan and USC Upstate, and got lucky to play an unmotivated Zips team twice, and a bad Marshall team. I don't follow rankings, but I can't believe they are a top 68 team. If the staff can figure out how to get the Zips to play to their potential, we might see SC again in another tournament. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

[akronzips71]

  I speak truth said:

I didn't know they played Kentuckey. I know Toledo played the MIGHTY Kansas Jayhawks last night.

They held their own against whoever they played LOL

[Dave in Green]

When considering Jake's game play so far this season, it should be remembered that he was having back problems going into the season and there were some questions about how effectively he would be able to play.

  Dave in Green said:

Coach Dambrot addressed the redshirt situation on the postgame show. As everyone knows, Big Dog is going to play. Asked about the other three, he said circumstances with veteran players may dictate that. He mentioned the question about Kretzer's back problem ...

[MDZip]

  a-zip said:

FOOTBALL – we got off to a rough start but played an incredibly tough schedule. TB talked about how good UCF was (and they are), their QB finished 3rd in the Heisman voting and are playing in a big bowl game. Michigan, never been more proud of our team, would have loved to have seen a W the team deserved . Lousiana, beat Tulane in their bowl game. BG – bowl game, Ohio – bowl game, N Ill – bowl game, Ball St – bowl game, Toledo (we knocked them out of a bowl game). The team improved dramatically, attendance sucked, BUT people were complaining about TB, play calling, etc.

I'm assuming you probably meant UCF's quarterback has been projected (in some circles) to go as high as 3rd in the NFL draft. He did not get any votes in the Heisman race. You also may have been thinking that the Zips did indeed face the player who ended up third in the Heisman voting, Jordan Lynch of NIU.

[a-zip]

  MDZip said:

I'm assuming you probably meant UCF's quarterback has been projected (in some circles) to go as high as 3rd in the NFL draft. He did not get any votes in the Heisman race. You also may have been thinking that the Zips did indeed face the player who ended up third in the Heisman voting, Jordan Lynch of NIU.

yup

[Quickzips]

Now that the dust is starting to settle a little I'll weigh in here with my two cents.

To me there are two overarching problems that this team has had so far this year. Both are somewhat self inflicted.

First is the schedule. Whoever put this thing together should be drug out back and shot. In a year where our style of play by necessity has to change due to the loss of Abreu and Zeke's graduation this was about the worst possible schedule they could have put together. It isn't necessarily the quality of opponents that was the problem, but the timing and travel was horrendous. Two trips out to the west coast to play quality competition I don't mind, but the quick turnaround back to the east coast for tough road games was unnecessary and the three week layoff in the middle of the OOC season was really bizarre. I don't feel like this team has had the opportunity to develop the chemistry that past Zips teams have had because of this ridiculous schedule.

The second problem really falls on the players themselves. When I watch this team play it is pretty clear that a lot of these guys are still waiting for Abreu and Zeke to walk back out on the court so that they can play the way they have the last few years. We give up all kinds of back door baskets on the defensive end because we are too used to Zeke being there to protect the rim from the week side. Our movement off the ball on the offensive end looks very lazy because we are used to Abreu being there with a nifty pass to get us a clean look. Guess what guys. Zeke isn't coming back. Alex isn't coming back. You have to play tight defense on your man and not just leave it to chance that there is going to be help coming at the rim if he gets by you. You have to work for position, set solid screens, roll hard to the basket and do all of the other things that good teams do to create easy scoring opportunities.

As far as the coaching situation, to imply that Dambrot and his staff should be released (as the general tone of this thread has) is one of the most asinine things I've ever read on here. It is no wonder some of the players consider this forum to be a huge joke. It is the same kind of short-sighted thinking that leads the Browns to fire head coaches and change QB's year after year after year (how well is that working out for them). I don't by any means agree with everything Dambrot has done in his tenure here. There are plenty of things I would like to see done differently (shorten the rotation a bit, bring in someone who can coach players on shooting FTs, less emphasis on 3 point shooting), but the overwhelming evidence shows that the past 5-7 years have been the absolute best era in Zips basketball history (at least since they entered DI). The guy has won a ton of games, won championships, gotten us to the NCAA tournament and by and large has brought more good publicity to this program than any coach since Bob Huggins. Unless he screws up big-time on or off the court (I'm talking some kind of criminal level activity) Dambrot has earned the right to stay until he is ready to retire.

[Dave in Green]

@Quickzips, nice summary. Hard to argue against anything you say. As we've already discussed, the killer schedule is the result of two factors. First, part of it was already in place before anyone knew Alex would be gone. Second, the really crazy part that has hurt the Zips is the result of a tradeoff for getting invitations to quality tournaments and extra ESPN TV time against big name opponents, which I think we all have been asking for. We're feeling the worst part of the killer schedule right now as the Zips struggle to adjust to life without Alex (and Zeke). But by the end of next season it may turn out that the deal with ESPN has returned more positives than negatives for the overall program.

[skip-zip]

Players come and go. Coaches get paid a lot of money to put the pieces back together again, develop new chemistry, put guys in more important roles than they had before, etc. It's his job to do this every year, and he's done it quite well for a decade now. Maybe this appears to be an especially challenging group, so he'll really earn his money.

The only part that is different, and so unfortunate, is that we lost an important backcourt player a year before we were prepared to replace him. But, I'm getting a feeling that people are starting to lean on this heavily as an excuse. It came up in the postgame interview last night, and the fans have brought it up repeatedly over the last month. Why is this any more of a challenge than unexpectedly losing a player to injury for a year? And for God's sake, we unexpectedly lost possibly the best player on the team for the 2012-2013 season, and came out of that just fine. Then we unexpectedly got him back this year, which was a bonus. And How come this didn't come up when we blew out OU in Cleveland in March? Something we never did when Alex was part of our starting lineup.

There's plenty of talent on this team to win plenty of games. I just think it's going to take a little longer than usual to get their heads in the right place this year.

[Hilltopper]

  skip-zip said:

Players come and go. Coaches get paid a lot of money to put the pieces back together again, develop new chemistry, put guys in more important roles than they had before, etc. It's his job to do this every year, and he's done it quite well for a decade now. Maybe this appears to be an especially challenging group, so he'll really earn his money.

The only part that is different, and so unfortunate, is that we lost an important backcourt player a year before we were prepared to replace him. But, I'm getting a feeling that people are starting to lean on this heavily as an excuse. It came up in the postgame interview last night, and the fans have brought it up repeatedly over the last month. Why is this any more of a challenge than unexpectedly losing a player to injury for a year? And for God's sake, we unexpectedly lost possibly the best player on the team for the 2012-2013 season, and came out of that just fine. Then we unexpectedly got him back this year, which was a bonus. And How come this didn't come up when we blew out OU in Cleveland in March? Something we never did when Alex was part of our starting lineup.

There's plenty of talent on this team to win plenty of games. I just think it's going to take a little longer than usual to get their heads in the right place this year.

What happened last March was partly due to the other teams not having any idea of what we were going to do without AA in the lineup. Once there was some tape to be studied and game planned we saw the results against VCU. Another factor was the confidence level that winning 19 games in a row gave the team. KD has done a pretty good job of making sure he has a backup plan in case of injury or other problems, but unfortunately the backup point guard position was a mistake on the staffs part. Even as early as the middle of last season the staff started looking for other options for this year when it became apparent the Melo was not ready which is how we ended up with Evans. The fact that this years team is struggling because we are really missing AA is not an excuse, it's a fact. I agree that things can improve.

[GP1]

  Quickzips said:

As far as the coaching situation, to imply that Dambrot and his staff should be released (as the general tone of this thread has) is one of the most asinine things I've ever read on here.

Please point to a post on this thread where this is the case.

[LZIp]

You can also look at the whole AA situation from another angle. A case could be made that while the decisions the players make on their own time are ultimately out of KD's control, he has a track record of recruiting players who end up having trouble staying on the court/team.

[Dave in Green]

  skip-zip said:

... But, I'm getting a feeling that people are starting to lean on this heavily as an excuse. ...

I'm leaning heavily on Abreu's departure from the team as a fact of life that's not going away. We all have to live with that fact for the whole season and should always keep it in mind when evaluating the overall performance of the team. It may not explain everything but it certainly explains some things. I'm confident that Coach Dambrot and the remaining players will compensate for this to the best of their abilities, and that they will do better as the season goes on. The fact -- not excuse -- remains that there is no way that the loss of a team's only quality, veteran PG can be fully compensated for.

[skip-zip]

  Hilltopper said:

What happened last March was partly due to the other teams not having any idea of what we were going to do without AA in the lineup.

Short memory? We only scored 65 points, so if you are saying that we snuck up on OU with some unpredictable offensive game plan that surprised them, it didn't work.