Thinking Bigger

[a-zip]

Thought I would start a new thread on the "Thinking Bigger" theme that keeps surfacing.

To me, at UoA, "thinking bigger" means different things to different sports. For Men’s soccer - it should be National Championships, for Football it should now be a winning record and possibly bowl game, for Men’s basketball it should be winning MAC championships, Women’s basketball should be about winning MAC championships, track should now be thinking on a national level, etc, etc. IMHO, our coaches are doing amazing things with what they have and collectively the combined successes of our teams means the AD and administration are doing a great job too. Frankly, I am amazed we have been able to retain the coaches we have. They are all approaching their ceilings while competing in the MAC. If we stay in the MAC, these goals above are realistic. We have the best coaches we can afford and they are doing a great job with the resources they have.

It is nice to want things but if your goals are unrealistic/ unachievable, you will constantly be disappointed. Haven’t we all experienced this in our professional careers? If you want more, there has to be more dramatic changes and a well thought out plan.

To me, “Thinking Bigger” is not about being critical of individual coaches when our season ends, it about carefully thinking what that next steps should be. Are there tweaks KD, JE, TB, JK can make individually? Sure, and I am confident they will make them.

To me, “Thinking Bigger” means we need to get in to a bigger conference. This is not an easy task to take on and could have catastrophic impacts on the school and community if not successful. I do believe national success with our athletic teams will create notoriety for the school, which will subsequently benefit the city of Akron. Before taking on a move this monumental, I think the first questions that need to be asked are………”Does NE Ohio and the city of Akron want to “think bigger” too? Is there enough room/support/demand for another high profile athletic program in Ohio? I along with all of you on ZN.o want more, but does the rest of the community feel the same way? I am not confident they do.

I live in Washington DC and the University of Maryland is having the same debate on their own “Thinking Bigger” initiative. They decided a move from the ACC for the Big 10 is the way to go. They are in a large thriving market with a much larger fan base and more money. They are thinking bigger but let me tell you there are many people that think their move will be a disaster. While the UoM is on a different scale than us, the issues/questions are the same as our (coaches, facilities, recruits, money, losing records). I copied a couple of bits from articles on the UoM move below. I am not trying to argue with anyone but I think given our current situation in the MAC, we will continue to be disappointed if our expectations are not realistic. I want more but I am content at the moment because my expectations are realistic.

_____________________________________________

Maryland joined the Big Ten largely because of its financial problems and the increased revenues it would bring in from league membership. But to compete in the Big Ten, Maryland had to make investments in its top programs. The school followed through Tuesday, signing offensive coordinator Mike Locksley to a three-year contract, according to multiple media reports. CBSsports.com's Bruce Feldman was first to report Lockley's contract. Locksley had two seasons left on his initial contract with Maryland, and the new deal goes through the 2016 season and coincides with the deals for head coach Randy Edsall and defensive coordinator Brian Stewart.

Locksley reportedly will earn around $600,000 per year, about $100,000 more than his initial contract. He has Big Ten ties as the offensive coordinator at Illinois from 2005-08. A Washington D.C. native, Locksley is one of the top recruiters in the area.

In college football more than any sport, the winningest schools have the deepest pockets. It shows in the quality of a school’s athletic facilities. The Terrapins’ facilities will be — by far — the worst in their division.

For Maryland, the trouble begins with Byrd Stadium. The school says its capacity is 54,000, making it among the division’s smallest. The stadiums at Penn State and Michigan accommodate more than 107,000. At Ohio State, capacity is around 102,000.

Beginning next season, three of Maryland’s division rivals will have the potential, based on the size of their stadiums, to more than double the school’s game-day revenue from ticket, parking, food and souvenir sales. Profits can be funneled back into the football program to upgrade facilities and increase salaries to lure the best coaches. You don’t need to be a numbers whiz to realize the math adds up poorly for the Terrapins.

The support Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State receive from their huge fan bases is another hurdle for Maryland. If all the current Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State season-ticket holders canceled their tickets, there would be a long list of people eager to buy them — and keep the cash registers turned on.

Maryland doesn’t have the money to add 50,000 seats or more to Byrd Stadium. And even if the financing were available, it would be foolish for the school to invest in a major expansion project. There isn’t enough interest in the Terrapins’ product.

As much as Byrd Stadium will put the Terrapins at an economic disadvantage, their sub-standard training facilities figure to hurt more in terms of preparation. Maryland will be the only member of the Big Ten without an indoor practice facility.

Coaches believe you play as well as you practice. No matter the weather in Ann Arbor, Columbus or State College, practice goes on as usual. Not so in College Park. For safety reasons, the Terrapins can’t work outdoors in extreme weather conditions. Although coaches would rather not cut short practice time and alter well-planned schedules, they have no choice when the weather could jeopardize the health of players.

Recruiting players is easier for Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State. Beyond the intangible benefits of having rich traditions to sell, coaches of longtime top-25 programs have more practical advantages in the use of private planes, allowing them to make more recruiting stops (per NCAA rules, of course) free from the shackles of commercial flight schedules.

Edsall is faring well in recruiting despite having to do it the old-fashioned way. But consider this: Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer doesn’t have to worry about getting stuck in the ‘C’ boarding group on Southwest. The good news for Maryland is that Edsall is doing all he can to overcome the university’s brick-and-mortar issues.

Talk to high school coaches, and they’ll tell you Edsall has done a great job in persuading some of the top players in Maryland and the District to sign with the Terrapins. Edsall and Athletic Director Kevin Anderson actually care about educating players. They want to build an honorable program that’s also successful.

[Dave in Green]

It's great to have a separate thread for this discussion. But there were some good thoughts already posted in the IPFW thread that should be moved here so we don't have to re-state them.

[zippy5]

To me, at UoA, "thinking bigger" means different things to different sports. For Men’s soccer - it should be National Championships, for Football it should now be a winning record and possibly bowl game, for Men’s basketball it should be winning MAC championships, Women’s basketball should be about winning MAC championships, track should now be thinking on a national level, etc, etc. IMHO, our coaches are doing amazing things with what they have and collectively the combined successes of our teams means the AD and administration are doing a great job too. Frankly, I am amazed we have been able to retain the coaches we have. They are all approaching their ceilings while competing in the MAC. If we stay in the MAC, these goals above are realistic. We have the best coaches we can afford and they are doing a great job with the resources they have.

Perhaps we have a different definition of "Bigger." We already have MAC championships in MBB and WBB. It's not that I'm not happy with it, but why not shoot for something bigger? If you're good at your job, are you happy with staying in the same position forever or do you want promoted?

[Captain Kangaroo]

And - if you could stop cutting and pasting miles of text it would be greatly appreciated by all.

Use the hyperlink option feature.

[BirdZip]

It is nice to want things but if your goals are unrealistic/ unachievable, you will constantly be disappointed.

The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.--Michelangelo

[Valpo Zip]

It is nice to want things but if your goals are unrealistic/ unachievable, you will constantly be disappointed. Haven’t we all experienced this in our professional careers? If you want more, there has to be more dramatic changes and a well thought out plan.

To me, “Thinking Bigger” is not about being critical of individual coaches when our season ends, it about carefully thinking what that next steps should be. Are there tweaks KD, JE, TB, JK can make individually? Sure, and I am confident they will make them.

I don't think that we are unrealistic or asking for unachievable goals with the men's basketball program. And if you want to compare it to other sports, let's do that!

People are very happy and content with the progress that TB has made with the Football team. I will be thrilled if the football team is bowl eligible next year, whether they win or lose their bowl game. That's being realistic.

On the other hand, if TB is here in 10 years still cannot win a bowl game, will you be happy?

[Dr Z]

if TB is here in 10 years still cannot win a bowl game, will you be happy?

Absolutely not. Love TB, but if he can't get it done, bring on somebody that will. I root for the Zips, not the coach. I know a few fans of Lee Owens that rooted harder for him, than they did the team. Never understood it. Lee could do no wrong. Lee had a plan. Trust in Lee...

[a-zip]

And - if you could stop cutting and pasting miles of text it would be greatly appreciated by all.

Use the hyperlink option feature.

Yessir

[a-zip]

The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.--Michelangelo

Seriously folks……I am not saying that we should not want more - I WANT MORE! I am saying I don't think we should expect too much more being in the MAC. I am asking if it is realistic for us to expect more being in the MAC? If, we want more (bigger) what jumps should we make? What is the plan to make that jump? How do we get there? I am looking for good ideas not wishes. Sorry for pasting multiple quotes Capt.

“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.”

― Benjamin Franklin

“You can't plow a field simply by turning it over in your mind.”

― Gordon B. Hinckley

“When you establish a destination by defining what you want, then take physical action by making choices that move you towards that destination, the possibility for success is limitless and arrival at the destination is inevitable.”

― Steve Maraboli

[a-zip]

Posted Today, 12:57 PM

Ada Zip, on 21 Mar 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

if TB is here in 10 years still cannot win a bowl game, will you be happy?

Absolutely not. Love TB, but if he can't get it done, bring on somebody that will.

_______________________________________________

If that happens, I think my point will have been made. If a Bowden cannot win a bowl game in 10 years it ain't ever going to happen in Akron - I don't care if Heismann rises from the grave to coach the team.

[VAZip]

Seems like the conversation goes to very lofty heights, but in reality, very simple things would change everyones opinion of this year. How about playing a second half like the first. How about not having 8 scoreless minutes. How about making a free throw in a game that is tied. How about a few minutes of defense. Personally I would like to see a simple timeout called when the other team is having a run. No amount of money, or conference change, or bigger arena would change these things. Just changing one to two would have changed the season though.

[taxpayer]

Some things I think I think as a observer from afar......

Think Bigger

Starts at home, not with a change of conference.

Start with developing community or more of a campus feel to U of A. With the exception of

mens soccer, student attendance (interest?) is pathetic. No other way to say it. My son's high school home basketball games had more students in attendance. Made more noise too!

Pep band is good, did I say students are apathetic? Make the "student" welcome. No more seperate entrance no more seats above the track unless they come late.

Until students are filling up 2,000+ seats in the JAR there will never be a financial incentive for a replacement. Joe Akron isn't showing up until another win streak reaches 20 in a row and he doesn't have to sit on bleachers, above a track trying to see through a rail. Really? .

Some how KD gets 20 wins and almost always into the MAC finals at the Q. If you'd travel to other universities other than the one 15 miles away you'd realize what a terrible facility the JAR is. Recruits are underwhelmed when they see it. Locker and weight room improvements are a help. The MAC is a bus travel league. Buy a bus or two (girls) and customize it. Passenger load of 25 at most. Ever see a 6'5+ kid ride 5 hours in a typical bus seat? Put a small kitchen in it. That's one way to seperate yourself from the crowd. Yeah, we bus but come at our bus!

Relocate all "media" to mid level seating at best. I want students and high rollers down low in segregated seating sections.

Got to start somewhere if you want things to change.....

[Balsy]

taxpayer +1.

[Valpo Zip]

Some things I think I think as a observer from afar......

Think Bigger

Starts at home, not with a change of conference.

Start with developing community or more of a campus feel to U of A. With the exception of

mens soccer, student attendance (interest?) is pathetic. No other way to say it. My son's high school home basketball games had more students in attendance. Made more noise too!

Pep band is good, did I say students are apathetic? Make the "student" welcome. No more seperate entrance no more seats above the track unless they come late.

Until students are filling up 2,000+ seats in the JAR there will never be a financial incentive for a replacement. Joe Akron isn't showing up until another win streak reaches 20 in a row and he doesn't have to sit on bleachers, above a track trying to see through a rail. Really? .

Some how KD gets 20 wins and almost always into the MAC finals at the Q. If you'd travel to other universities other than the one 15 miles away you'd realize what a terrible facility the JAR is. Recruits are underwhelmed when they see it. Locker and weight room improvements are a help. The MAC is a bus travel league. Buy a bus or two (girls) and customize it. Passenger load of 25 at most. Ever see a 6'5+ kid ride 5 hours in a typical bus seat? Put a small kitchen in it. That's one way to seperate yourself from the crowd. Yeah, we bus but come at our bus!

Relocate all "media" to mid level seating at best. I want students and high rollers down low in segregated seating sections.

Got to start somewhere if you want things to change.....

The "Like" button is still not working for me!

[Dr Z]

The "Like" button is still not working for me!

Sorry, there is not an option to turn it "on" in our current software package. I would remove it if I could so as to not confuse.

[ZachTheZip]

Some things I think I think as a observer from afar......

Think Bigger

Starts at home, not with a change of conference.

Start with developing community or more of a campus feel to U of A. With the exception of

mens soccer, student attendance (interest?) is pathetic. No other way to say it. My son's high school home basketball games had more students in attendance. Made more noise too!

Pep band is good, did I say students are apathetic? Make the "student" welcome. No more seperate entrance no more seats above the track unless they come late.

Until students are filling up 2,000+ seats in the JAR there will never be a financial incentive for a replacement. Joe Akron isn't showing up until another win streak reaches 20 in a row and he doesn't have to sit on bleachers, above a track trying to see through a rail. Really? .

Some how KD gets 20 wins and almost always into the MAC finals at the Q. If you'd travel to other universities other than the one 15 miles away you'd realize what a terrible facility the JAR is. Recruits are underwhelmed when they see it. Locker and weight room improvements are a help. The MAC is a bus travel league. Buy a bus or two (girls) and customize it. Passenger load of 25 at most. Ever see a 6'5+ kid ride 5 hours in a typical bus seat? Put a small kitchen in it. That's one way to seperate yourself from the crowd. Yeah, we bus but come at our bus!

Relocate all "media" to mid level seating at best. I want students and high rollers down low in segregated seating sections.

Got to start somewhere if you want things to change.....

This has to be one of the worst and most wrong posts I've seen on here.

[Dave in Green]

When a broad discussion like this is opened, a lot of different people bring in a lot of different factors from major to minor. Things can get a little scattered as side conversations stray off topic. You almost have to narrow down the discussion to the single thing that most people are most concerned about and then try to focus on the most important factors that might influence change.

It seems as if almost everyone is at least moderately pleased that the Zips have been the most consistent winners in the MAC during the Coach Dambrot era and at least moderately concerned that the Zips' post-season results don't match up. Some other teams, including MAC teams, that can't match the Zips' sustained conference performance are able to win post-season games where the Zips have consistently failed since their 2 NIT wins, the last coming 6 seasons ago. For many the lack of post-season results prevents them from getting full enjoyment out of all the conference success.

How is it that each season some teams that play roughly the same strength schedule or even weaker and have roughly the same season records or worse can outperform the Zips in post-season tournaments? Anyone who can come up with a legitimate answer to that question will not only become a folk hero among Zips basketball fans, but could get a permanent pass from Coach Dambrot to sit behind the Zips bench at all games.

[scottditzen]

I have admittedly not seen as many games as I would've liked. However, what I have seen has been ugly. It looks to me like we are constantly having to "gut out" wins against teams that are not as talented as we are. That shouldn't be. The offense has no fluidity to it. It's an ugly thing, like it's as if the players have no chemistry.

I don't know what the right answer is, but it's undeniable that the program is stagnant.

[tomzip]

Just a side note, I would love a smaller version of that Viejas Arena, great seats everywhere there.

[a-zip]

When a broad discussion like this is opened, a lot of different people bring in a lot of different factors from major to minor. Things can get a little scattered as side conversations stray off topic. You almost have to narrow down the discussion to the single thing that most people are most concerned about and then try to focus on the most important factors that might influence change.

It seems as if almost everyone is at least moderately pleased that the Zips have been the most consistent winners in the MAC during the Coach Dambrot era and at least moderately concerned that the Zips' post-season results don't match up. Some other teams, including MAC teams, that can't match the Zips' sustained conference performance are able to win post-season games where the Zips have consistently failed since their 2 NIT wins, the last coming 6 seasons ago. For many the lack of post-season results prevents them from getting full enjoyment out of all the conference success.

How is it that each season some teams that play roughly the same strength schedule or even weaker and have roughly the same season records or worse can outperform the Zips in post-season tournaments? Anyone who can come up with a legitimate answer to that question will not only become a folk hero among Zips basketball fans, but could get a permanent pass from Coach Dambrot to sit behind the Zips bench at all games.

Sorry for bringing up the topic. I did not intend to make it so broad for ya'll. I tried to frame it to foster ideas for "thinking bigger" and what that means. The beginning of solving a problems is identifying the goal….meaning what is "thinking bigger". As I read the post from this and multiple threads on ZN.o, it apparently means winning a single NCAA tournament basketball game for some, for others it means winning a single monumental football game. That will happen one day if the stars align like they have for Florida Gulf Coast or Mercer (15 minutes of fame). I guess my ambitions of "thinking bigger' are higher….and that is for sustained success and support that will get us out of the MAC. I am convinced that if we stay in the MAC we are actually not thinking bigger and we should be satisfied with the results we are getting. You guys can bitch all you want about the coaches but I promise you the good ones will be gone soon. First prediction. Coach Kest ;-)………..Amato next, Bowden next. Oh BTW, Tressel somewhere in there too.

[Dave in Green]

This thread is confusing me a little because it's in the basketball forum but it's addressing more than just basketball. With March Madness at fever pitch, it's hard to think of anything beyond basketball right now. The Stephen F. Austin OT win over VCU was absolutely insane. But a Thinking Bigger general sports discussion is a good thing to have in the right place at the right time.

[LZIp]

The thing about joining better conferences is we actually have to have something that attracts the other conferences. What conference are you thinking of? The A-10 for basketball only? We'd go .500..maybe worse. The Horizon? Lateral. You can throw out any of the Big 5. Moving to another mid-major in all sports all together like the C-USA isn't worth it.

Let's start with worrying about improving ourselves and the rest will take care of itself. A simple answer of just "swiching to a better conference" with the assumed notion it's going to somehow elevate us to national relevance just doesn't add up to me.

[a-zip]

This thread is confusing me a little because it's in the basketball forum but it's addressing more than just basketball. With March Madness at fever pitch, it's hard to think of anything beyond basketball right now. The Stephen F. Austin OT win over VCU was absolutely insane. But a Thinking Bigger general sports discussion is a good thing to have in the right place at the right time.

I wish I knew how to move it. I thought I started it outside of a specific sport. If a facilitator thinks it warrants moving, please do so.

[skip-zip]

Since people are often bringing up "chemistry" and offensive flow, I tried to watch the relationship between Tree and Q all season long. I've been told on many occasions that they may have had difficulty getting along with each other. And since one was the primary shooter and playmaker, and the other was the workhorse in the paint, that could very well be the easy explanation as to why this team never reached its potential. You can't have your two primary players battling over control of the team, if that was the issue.

[Balsy]

Perhaps we should have The Athletic Department win the Billion-dollar-bracket, and then we can have our new arena. That's Thinking Big right there!

But on a serious note: chemistry seemed to be a huge problem. And if what Skip-Zip says is true, that is probably one of the most glaring reasons as to why we did not perform.

As DiG said: This thread seems a little confusing...but it seems that the things that keep coming up are:

1. Better team chemistry (IMO this falls on the coach)
2. Post-season success (this falls on everyone...but can be a direct result of chemistry)
3. Conference success (see above...and we can probably check this concern off).
4. New arena (Probably need all four before this happens...)

5. Alumni, Student, community engagement.

Out of these, the one that we seem to have the most direct influence over is engagement.