A Critical Analysis

[GP1]

In other threads GP1 and others have pondered the dividing of Division 1 into two distinct Division 1 categories -- BCS conferences and non-BCS conferences. The driving force behind this seems to be football conferences. I'm not sure why we don't see a future in Football only conferences, Basketball only conferences, Soccer only Conferences.

I think it is a great solution. For example, there is no reason why some of the religious based schools that struggle to find a home couldn't have their own basketball conference. For example, Providence, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, etc. couldn't have their own conference for basketball only.

There is no reason every school has to be trapped into a single conference.

[GP1]

Of course we all want the Zips to make progress. But by whose definition? Administration may want to "make progress" by moving to a better conference, but if they were held personally accountable financially for all the loses we would incur, they would think otherwise. The minute they take credit for moving up, they are gone to another school and we are stuck dealing with the losses. (on the field)

I'm glad I'm not the only person on this board who sees the people working in college athletics at the MAC level for what they really are....despicable opportunists who don't act in the interest of their schools.

[zippy5]

UMass leaving the MAC after 2015. Guessing MAC said all or nothing, they chose nothing.

[GP1]

UMass leaving the MAC after 2015. Guessing MAC said all or nothing, they chose nothing.

It's the same nothing their presence offered the MAC.

[zippy5]

It's the same nothing their presence offered the MAC.

Agreed. The only positive of UMass joining was the possibility we could get them to join for all sports. Without bball, they're useless.

[skip-zip]

Agreed. The only positive of UMass joining was the possibility we could get them to join for all sports. Without bball, they're useless.

Unless you had a bad football team for a few years, and were able to look at them as one of your best chances at a victory

[johnnyzip84]

ZipsWin! pretty much nailed it regarding an ambitious, yet achievable vision of "progress" for Zip athletics. Other than a possible pairing down of the MAC (addition through subtraction), with perhaps a few other forward looking schools added to the core group (UA, Ohio, U@B, UT, WMU), I see no other realistic path for UA in the next 10-15 years.

[GP1]

Agreed. The only positive of UMass joining was the possibility we could get them to join for all sports. Without bball, they're useless.

With basketball they would have been useless. The MAC needs fewer schools, not more.

[jupitertoo]

With basketball they would have been useless. The MAC needs fewer schools, not more.

Adding UMASS basketball would have been one of the biggest positive events in recent MAC history.

[GP1]

Adding UMASS basketball would have been one of the biggest positive events in recent MAC history.

There are a lot of ways someone could read this statement.....

[skip-zip]

My vision is simple- Let's copy NIU and a BCS bowl bid and OU's sweet 16 run on a consistent basis- in the MAC, thereby putting my move to vegas on hold, permanently.

Simple? Please tell me how many teams are in BCS bowl games and Sweet 16s on a consistent basis. Maybe a dozen? Heck, I don't know, but I know it certainly is a small number.

Many of us are wanting Akron to progress. But what you are proposing would put us in super-elite status, do you realize that?

So, I'll gladly take your "simple vision"

[jupitertoo]

There are a lot of ways someone could read this statement.....

My point is pretty simple: Your statement that UMASS Bball in the MAC would have been useless just flies in the face of reality. It would have given us a LOT of credibility we aren't likely to get on our own.

[GP1]

My point is pretty simple: Your statement that UMASS Bball in the MAC would have been useless just flies in the face of reality. It would have given us a LOT of credibility we aren't likely to get on our own.

umass has not been a meaningful team since the 1990s. They had a good year this year and that probably would not have happened in the MAC. For the most part, they are a solid NIT team.

If umass gives credibility, I guess my question is, With whom?

[Dave in Green]

UMass basketball has only finished the season with a better than #100 RPI in 6 of the past 15 seasons, although 3 of those have come in the past 3 seasons and this season has been their best. They've had a number of seasons where they were closer to #200. Over those 15 seasons they look a lot like one of the better MAC teams. Can't, OU and the Zips have all had as many or more top #100 RPI rankings since 1999. Their big successes came in the 1990s when John Calipari was head coach. If they were playing in the MAC, they'd have a tough time recruiting A10-level talent.

[johnnyzip84]

Simple? Please tell me how many teams are in BCS bowl games and Sweet 16s on a consistent basis. Maybe a dozen? Heck, I don't know, but I know it certainly is a small number.

Many of us are wanting Akron to progress. But what you are proposing would put us in super-elite status, do you realize that?

So, I'll gladly take your "simple vision"

I think almost everyone on this board realized ZipsWin! wasn't implying that ACHIEVING this vision is simple. I took it as meaning there is a path, within the constraints of MAC membership, to potentially attain pretty impressive heights in both basketball and football.

[Zips Win!]

Thanks JZ84 for stating it perfectly.

[Balsy]

@Zips Win! I completely agree with you. Like it or not, the MAC is where we make our stand. We can either learn to thrive in it, or never thrive at all. It's our choice.

[skip-zip]

I think almost everyone on this board realized ZipsWin! wasn't implying that ACHIEVING this vision is simple. I took it as meaning there is a path, within the constraints of MAC membership, to potentially attain pretty impressive heights in both basketball and football.

That would indeed be the debate. CAN you achieve those things from the MAC? We've certainly seen it, sporadically. But "consistently", in both sports, from one school? That's my point.

Again, look at who consistently hits those achievements in football and basketball? It's a very small number. I'd say, look at those who are doing it, and see their conference alignment and resources. Then, see if any MAC program, ever, has even come remotely close to making that achievement a consistent part of their record. The answer will be...none.

So, what are the chances that Akron will be the one who can buck a trend that has lasted for many decades, and change the course of the history? With such limited MAC-level resources? I can't fathom how heavily the odds would be stacked against it.

With the MAC as our conference affiliation, I would equate it to duplicating the unbelievable rise of football's Boise State and basketball's Gonzaga, simultaneously. We would stand alone in this achievement, and would be one of the biggest stories in the history of college athletics.

I wonder how insurmountable the odds would be ? It's a dream of the ultimate magnitude.

[lance99]

That would indeed be the debate. CAN you achieve those things from the MAC? We've certainly seen it, sporadically. But "consistently", in both sports, from one school? That's my point.

Again, look at who consistently hits those achievements in football and basketball? It's a very small number. I'd say, look at those who are doing it, and see their conference alignment and resources. Then, see if any MAC program, ever, has even come remotely close to making that achievement a consistent part of their record. The answer will be...none.

So, what are the chances that Akron will be the one who can buck a trend that has lasted for many decades, and change the course of the history? With such limited MAC-level resources? I can't fathom how heavily the odds would be stacked against it.

With the MAC as our conference affiliation, I would equate it to duplicating the unbelievable rise of football's Boise State and basketball's Gonzaga, simultaneously. We would stand alone in this achievement, and would be one of the biggest stories in the history of college athletics.

I wonder how insurmountable the odds would be ? It's a dream of the ultimate magnitude.

It can be done. It us all about the people with the vision. Look at it like this: Basketball and Soccer is there. Football is the driver and we are getting there.

[skip-zip]

It can be done. It us all about the people with the vision. Look at it like this: Basketball and Soccer is there. Football is the driver and we are getting there.

Basketball is consistently in the Sweet 16 ??

I think you missed the earlier discussion about the success standard that we are commenting about.

[johnnyzip84]

Hustle Belt has this fairly in-depth story on the poor status of MAC hoops (tied into why UMass said "no thanks"). It fits here about as well as anywhere.

Perhaps the only good news is that 2013-2014 was actually a decent step forward in terms of conference BPI rank and non-conference winning percentage.

[Hilltopper]

Hustle Belt has this fairly in-depth story on the poor status of MAC hoops (tied into why UMass said "no thanks"). It fits here about as well as anywhere.

Perhaps the only good news is that 2013-2014 was actually a decent step forward in terms of conference BPI rank and non-conference winning percentage.

The guy who wrote the article is a Can't fan.

[Dr Z]

Hustle Belt has this fairly in-depth story on the poor status of MAC hoops (tied into why UMass said "no thanks"). It fits here about as well as anywhere.

Perhaps the only good news is that 2013-2014 was actually a decent step forward in terms of conference BPI rank and non-conference winning percentage.

Well written, he could have quoted me in this article. Sometimes the truth (MAC Basketball Has A Problem: It's Not Very Good) hurts, ignoring it, doesn't fix it. Fix it.

[a-zip]

GoZips, this is the exactly the dialog I tried to start on another thread, I guess I did not state it as clearly as you……so thanks.

I am not sure what a realistic goal for us should be and the path to get there. I would love to get in to a better conference but don't think we are anywhere close to being on someone's radar. It is tricky and risky to make a move to another conference.

The big fear I have is that the disparity between the power conferences that are being built and the smaller conferences will become so great that the days of upsetting a Big10, SEC, PAC10, Big12 school will never happen. These conferences are going to generate outrageous amounts of money to these schools that will enable them to build ridiculous facilities (academic and athletic). It will also enable them to pay serious $$ to assistants and coordinators that would dwarf the salaries of our head coaches. Seriously, look at Maryland moving from the ACC to the Big10. Hell, I would love to be in the ACC but Maryland feels it is not enough for them!!! Think about how vulnerable the ACC is - Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Ga Tech, Miami, UNC, NCST, Pitt, Syracuse, UVA, VaTech, Wake Forest, Louisville. What happens if Miami and FSU leave (and I have to believe the SEC/Big10 are courting)? You have an awesome basketball conference and a deteriorating football conference. The Big10 and/or SEC become even more powerful and the ACC becomes less relevant just like the Big East and Conference USA have. This will all trickle down to conferences like the MAC and make us even weaker. I guess the good news might be that if FSU or Miami were to leave the ACC - the ACC would be looking to backfill…..I don't think we are even close to consideration for them (at least not at the moment).

The best analogy I can thinks of is to compare to what is happening in the economy. The WalMarts, Costcos, Sam's Clubs, Targets are killing the small and medium businesses. In technology - IBM, EMC, HP, CA, Microsoft are buying up brilliant small technology companies that can't survive. That is where I fear things are headed in the NCAA.

So, if anything I said makes sense above - would it be wise for us to invest and prepare to make a jump to a conference like the ACC in the next 5 years. Will the ACC even be relevant enough 5 years from now? If we made this commitment, we would have to improve basketball performance and facilities, start winning and making postseason football and fill the Info, soccer needs to continue their success AND we would have to pay all of our the coaches enough to keep them around all of this time. Then, even if we did all of these things…..would a conference that would accept us be worth moving to.

[GJGood]

Marketing is really key, the conference needs to do more to promote our league. The conference needs to be seen as a more viable league, not only inside its geographic footprint which is mainly ruled by the Big Ten but also in areas that are underserved by the "power conferences". What ever happened to all those MAC/MWC team up to form a TV network rumors I was hearing a couple years back? That, or something like that where we teamed up with another region of the country, could give a more national presence if it ever were to happen.

I actually think there is potential out there for the MAC to become more of a national player but it won't happen if the work and investment is not put in to doing it. We should at least be able to reach a level similar to the Mountain West in football or the A-10 in basketball. Even in sports like soccer and baseball we've had teams recently win a national championship and make the College World Series. I think given the right leadership and the right 'encouragement' from the schools' fanbases to the conference office there is potential for a better MAC all around. I just don't know who is willing to put the investment into it to make it happen with all the apathy that seems to be thrown the MAC's way from the media and parts of the country where MAC visibility is nearly nonexistant.

The first step though is we, as fans of a MAC school or schools, need to demand more from our conference brass.