Officiating Thread

[zipsrule]

Not necessarily the reason they lost, but the calls did seem to favor Toledo - especially in the second half. It really helps when you are in the bonus with about 14 minutes left.

[LZIp]

I'll go ahead and leave this here as a friendly reminder of the discussion about being obsessed with the 3 ball in the Coppin St thread.

I'll concede that while I have made it clear I'm not really a fan of the shot selection, being 3-happy seems to be a formula that has worked for other mid-majors in the tourney. Especially ones where their best player is a PG (think OU). But we as fans have to realize the consequences of this. There are going to be games we lose that we shouldn't and there will be games where the opponent shoots a lot more FTs than us.

Toledo shot 11 3. We shot nearly 3 times that much at 27.

[LZIp]

Not necessarily the reason they lost, but the calls did seem to favor Toledo - especially in the second half. It really helps when you are in the bonus with about 14 minutes left.

It appears the refs were calling a tight game tonight. Something the Zips could have taken advantage of like Toledo did. Aggressive defense and neglecting getting the ball to the paint is a formula for disaster when that is happening. The starting PG, SG, and backup PG/SG were top 3 in the team in shots taken. All 3 are perimeter players. What else do we expect?

Our starting center and slashing guard led the team in FTs. Coincidence? It's the nature of the beast. I bet OU was pretty low in the conference on FT attempts during the Cooper years. Basically, get used to it if this is going to be our new identity.

[zippyfan34]

I didn't find the officiating horrible. Most of the fouls called on us were legit as we play touchy defense at times. I didn't like the "T" call on Evans as I think it should have been a delay of game warning. He didn't throw the ball at the player, although he quickly handed it to him but it was close to his face. If he would have said something when he did it I would understand the T but in the heat of the moment the ref saw it differently.

[skip-zip]

I didn't find the officiating horrible. Most of the fouls called on us were legit as we play touchy defense at times. I didn't like the "T" call on Evans as I think it should have been a delay of game warning. He didn't throw the ball at the player, although he quickly handed it to him but it was close to his face. If he would have said something when he did it I would understand the T but in the heat of the moment the ref saw it differently.

By rule, it's a technical. But what really got my interest is that someone of Nyles' demeanor did this. That tells me there was a lot of frustration with the way the game was being called. French even mentioned afterwards that he was likely tired of getting hand-checked and bumped the entire game without a call. I will agree with those who feel that the officiating seemed one sided for similar type of play, but that it did not cost us this game.

[Dr Z]

French even mentioned afterwards...

Love Frenchy....but he can add gasoline to an obtuse fire.

[Dave in Green]

Of course there were questionable calls in the Toledo game. Seated in the 3rd row with an unobstructed view of bodies banging together 25 feet away, I unquestionably saw some slight touches draw whistles and some hard body slams not. But that's the nature of the game. The refs don't get all the calls right and shouldn't be expected to. All you can ask for is that the mistakes average out over many games to 50% in your favor and 50% against you. To reach that 50-50 average, there may be some games when they're 75-25 for or against you. Over the long haul 50-50 officiating mistakes for and against is the reality we all have to live with, except for those who may believe in some kind of sinister conspiracy against UA.

Coach Dambrot gave the following opinion after the game:

“We played a little more aggressively defensively,” Dambrot said. “We probably hand-checked more than they did. I’m not going to worry about that. We’ve got to be a little smarter and adjust. It’s hard when guys shoot 32 free throws to 15, but we did it to ourselves.”

And there you have it from the coach's mouth taking full responsibility. The Zips have to play a little smarter and adjust to the way the game is being called. Any team with 4 freshmen in the rotation is going to take more time to get the experience to become smarter and adjust to these kinds of situations. The Zips have to continue working on playing tough defense without making the kind of minor mistakes that catch the attention of the refs and draw the dreaded whistle.

[Dr Z]

More defense with the feet (position), less with the hands will get a lot less whistles.

Basketball fundamentals:

You must not just "reach-in" and take a swipe at the ball as the player dribbles by you (usually a foul)...instead you must move your feet, hustle and stay with your man, and prevent him/her from getting to the basket by getting yourself into proper position. Also, when you "reach-in", you lose your defensive stance and balance and are now easy for the offensive player to get around.

[Valpo Zip]

And there you have it from the coach's mouth taking full responsibility. The Zips have to play a little smarter and adjust to the way the game is being called. Any team with 4 freshmen in the rotation is going to take more time to get the experience to become smarter and adjust to these kinds of situations. The Zips have to continue working on playing tough defense without making the kind of minor mistakes that catch the attention of the refs and draw the dreaded whistle.

I love the fact that the coach is taking full responsibility for the inability to be smart and make the necessary adjustments. Now the question is, how does this responsibility translate into a measurable plan of execution?

In the next games, will we start seeing more dribble penetrations? back door passes? low screens?

or will we still just pass the ball back and forth for a while and try some high screens before we heave a three pointer?

[Sportsjunkie330]

I'll be the first to say they were beyond awful tonight.

Didn't see this coming at all.

[Glib Shanley]

Question for the local refs:

2 or 3 times tonight the refs stopped play after the Zips had inbounded the ball to look at an injured Chip.

I certainly understand player welfare, but I do not recall officials stopping play when the opposing team has the ball.

What is the rule in that situation?

Thanks!

[ZachTheZip]

What's CMU's coach to getting the refs to do a video review? I don't recall Dambrot ever convincing the refs to do one.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Question for the local refs:

2 or 3 times tonight the refs stopped play after the Zips had inbounded the ball to look at an injured Chip.

I certainly understand player welfare, but I do not recall officials stopping play when the opposing team has the ball.

What is the rule in that situation?

Thanks!

It happened against Western also...Western player hurt while the Zips had the ball. Play was stopped.

[Dave in Green]

I'm not sure of the exact rule. But in the past I've seen occasions where a defensive player went down while the other team was on a fast break and the refs didn't stop play until after the fast break concluded. I think the refs have the option of stopping play at any time for an injured player depending on the exact circumstances and apparent seriousness of the injury, but usually don't when a team is in the middle of a potential scoring play.

[zipsrule]

Lots of complaints, but this is the place. From what I could gather from Frenchy, sounds like the officiating was awful today. Several technicals and a lot of unhappy players.

[Glib Shanley]

Interesting note on one particular official:

John Floyd.

In 14 games this year, he has called 9 technicals.

By comparison, the other 2 refs, Heimerman & Mayborg, have only called 10 technicals combined in 63 games.

Another note on Floyd is in 3 years, he's only worked 22 games in total.

Maybe there was a shortage of experienced refs today..

[1981 grad]

There were an excessive number of offensive fouls called, especially in the first half. On one call Big Dog touched the guy with no momentum and he fell over. When you saw the replay it was an obvious flop but the ref called it. We also benefitted from some dubious calls.

[Dave in Green]

... We also benefitted from some dubious calls.

That's generally what happens when there's questionable officiating. It tends to go both ways, so either fan base can point to the bad calls against their team if they lose. Only occasionally are the questionable calls so one-sided that there's an appearance that one team is being favored over the other. It's hard for fans to be objective about questionable calls even when they're split exactly 50-50 between both teams.

[Glib Shanley]

There are always "make-up" calls (as opposed to made up calls). Good refs understand the flow of a game and will also have a sense if a fellow official makes a questionable call, and will find a nice innocuous 3 second call or traveling call just to keep it even.

With Akron being called for 25 fouls to Western's 19, we were lucky they missed 13 of 27 free throws.

This was not a well officiated game. The large number of technicals certainly help demonstrate the officials did not have control.

[The Hip Zip]

Interesting note on one particular official:

John Floyd.

In 14 games this year, he has called 9 technicals.

By comparison, the other 2 refs, Heimerman & Mayborg, have only called 10 technicals combined in 63 games.

Another note on Floyd is in 3 years, he's only worked 22 games in total.

Maybe there was a shortage of experienced refs today..

Bingo,

Not just a shortage of experienced refs but a shortage of refs period. On Saturday, when damn near everybody plays, there are simply not enough decent refs for all the games. You would be surprised at some of the guys they are trying to recruit into the ranks of new officials. My buddy is a high school baseball coach and he has been approached despite the fact that he knows very little about hoops.

[LZIp]

maybe some of the know-it-alls on here should ref since there is an apparent shortage :laugh_up:

Three things in life..death, taxes, and the refs out to get Akron.

[Glib Shanley]

maybe some of the know-it-alls on here should ref since there is an apparent shortage :laugh_up:

Three things in life..death, taxes, and the refs out to get Akron.

Just to show that it's not just Akron, here are a couple comments from the W MI fans:

broncogirl1999 1 day ago

Wow poor refs in this game!!

uofmbronco

@broncogirl1999 I agree. The refs in the game need glasses. WMU got some poor calls.

Of course, they were the most upset with their FT shooting, oh, and a couple shots at coaching.

So, fans everywhere are fans with the same comments.

But, thanks for your insight.

[Dave in Green]

If anyone actually believes there's a ref conspiracy to screw the Zips, please speak up and share all the sordid details. Otherwise I'll continue to believe that all Zips fans posting here acknowledge that questionable calls are generally random. Sometimes they're for you and sometimes they're against you, and it all evens out over time.

[Hilltopper]

If you think college officiating is bad, you should attend a few high school games to see what really bad looks like.

[1981 grad]

Give credit where credit is due: With about 90 seconds left in the game, a Zip missed a shot and Western Michigan player got the rebound. The whistle blew and I had no idea what the call was since it was not obvious. It was against Western Michigan and Big Dog got fouled. They replayed it on TV and when the players were boxing for position before the rebound you could see the Western Michigan player grab Big Dogs arm for half a second to get position and get the rebound. It was a good call that allowed Big Dog to make 2 foul shots and take the lead.

If you were at the game, it is doubtful that you would have seen the foul since you would have been watching the shot and not the guys boxing out for the rebound. Good and bad calls go both way and you need to get pass the refs.