Officiating Thread

[skip-zip]

Zippy 5....just add in all rebounding, loose balls, screens, and 5 guys holding and making contact with each other throughout the game within the entire length of the court for some perspective.

I only tell you this because I get the feeling that you're really committed to the idea that fouls are a result of how many times a team takes shots inside the 3-point arc vs. outside the 3 point arc. Consider every other aspect of the game in which contact takes place as well.

[zippy5]

Zippy 5....just add in all rebounding, loose balls, screens, and 5 guys holding and making contact with each other throughout the game within the entire length of the court for some perspective.

I only tell you this because I get the feeling that you're really committed to the idea that fouls are a result of how many times a team takes shots inside the 3-point arc vs. outside the 3 point arc. Consider every other aspect of the game in which contact takes place as well.

I'd say all the loose ball fouls and screens, etc. are probably even over the course of the year. Your difference comes down to the perimeter vs. paint. 116 FTs seems like a lot, but like I said, it's 5 per game. That's less than 3 extra fouls every game.

The other side is that the refs screwed us over the entire course of the season and that's a little much for me.

[Captain Kangaroo]

If Dambrot wants more foul calls, he needs to trade his 3-balls for shots in the paint. Simple as that.

Then, he needs guys that can hit their free throws.

[skip-zip]

The other side is that the refs screwed us over the entire course of the season and that's a little much for me.

Again, I haven't said anything about us being screwed. Just pointing out your narrow focus on the shooting fouls. It's actually very rare that I see something that needs to be mentioned in terms of officiating, and it particularly got my attention because it's a significant number, and our coaching staff has obviously boiled over with frustration as well.

Having a group of experience players and coaches on our bench who are showing a disregard for whether they are reprimanded or not has some merit. I don't know the last time I heard that kind of reaction. Listening to the postgame was pretty interesting.

[zippy5]

Again, I haven't said anything about us being screwed. Just pointing out your narrow focus on the shooting fouls. It's actually very rare that I see something that needs to be mentioned in terms of officiating, and it particularly got my attention because it's a significant number, and our coaching staff has obviously boiled over with frustration as well.

You're killing me man. "Shooting" fouls.. and we're talking about free throws. You know what leads to free throws? Shooting fouls. I don't think it's that narrow. If the majority of the difference isn't because of shooting fouls, just tell me, what is it?

[Dave in Green]

After the first 6 team personals in each half, all fouls are shooting fouls. So that does narrow it down a little. I agree with zippy5 that the big number (116) is less meaningful than the average difference per game. Let's look at this in more detail to try to gain a better understanding of what's going on.

Personal fouls per game:

Zips are averaging ~18.5 and their opponents ~17.0, so in raw personals the Zips are being whistled just 1.5 times more per game (~9%) than their opponents. A number of factors could be contributing to this difference. But it doesn't seem like the kind of huge difference some may think exists due to the Zips shooting a large number of 3s where there's a much smaller chance of drawing a personal than driving the basket.

Free throw attempts per game:

Zips are averaging ~17.5 per game and their opponents ~21. So the Zips are getting an average of ~3.5 fewer free throw attempts (~17%) per game than their opponents while drawing 1.5 fewer personals. You might say that some of that difference is from the Zips missing the front end of many 1 and 1s due to their poor team free throw shooting percentage (65.2%). But at 67.9% Zips opponents are averaging only slightly better from the free throw line, a negligible difference. So at least part of the 3.5 fewer free throw attempts per game could indeed be related to the Zips taking a higher percentage of shots that typically don't draw personals, i.e. 3-pointers.

Total impact on the game:

When you crunch the numbers on opponents drawing 1.5 more fouls and getting 3.5 more free throw attempts per game with a 67.9% free throw shooting percentage, the Zips are losing about .679 x 3.5 = ~2.4 points per game at the free throw line to their opponents. Since free throw points generally represent ~20% of all points scored in a typical college game compared with ~50% for 2-point field goals and ~30% on 3-pointers, the Zips have that other 80% of total points scored to make up the extra 2.4 points per game they give up to their opponents at the free throw line.

Conclusion:

The final scores of college basketball games are determined by the combined performance in all areas of both the offensive and defensive games, not just one or two obvious ones. Giving up an average of 2.4 points per game at the free throw line is just one area of the game, one that could be more than offset by averaging 2 more field goals or 1 more 3-pointer per game. The Zips' below average 2-point and 3-point field goal shooting percentages are as important an issue as their free throw shooting deficit. Likewise the inability of the Zips defense to stop defenders from driving to the basket without fouling (remember Zeke?) is yet another area where a small improvement could pay big dividends. It's up to the coaching staff to determine the areas of performance where improvement is likely to pay the biggest dividends based on the abilities of the players they have to work with.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Good stuff Dave.

[Glib Shanley]

After the first 6 team personals in each half, all fouls are shooting fouls. So that does narrow it down a little. I agree with zippy5 that the big number (116) is less meaningful than the average difference per game. Let's look at this in more detail to try to gain a better understanding of what's going on.

Personal fouls per game:

Zips are averaging ~18.5 and their opponents ~17.0, so in raw personals the Zips are being whistled just 1.5 times more per game (~9%) than their opponents. A number of factors could be contributing to this difference. But it doesn't seem like the kind of huge difference some may think exists due to the Zips shooting a large number of 3s where there's a much smaller chance of drawing a personal than driving the basket.

Free throw attempts per game:

Zips are averaging ~17.5 per game and their opponents ~21. So the Zips are getting an average of ~3.5 fewer free throw attempts (~17%) per game than their opponents while drawing 1.5 fewer personals. You might say that some of that difference is from the Zips missing the front end of many 1 and 1s due to their poor team free throw shooting percentage (65.2%). But at 67.9% Zips opponents are averaging only slightly better from the free throw line, a negligible difference. So at least part of the 3.5 fewer free throw attempts per game could indeed be related to the Zips taking a higher percentage of shots that typically don't draw personals, i.e. 3-pointers.

Total impact on the game:

When you crunch the numbers on opponents drawing 1.5 more fouls and getting 3.5 more free throw attempts per game with a 67.9% free throw shooting percentage, the Zips are losing about .679 x 3.5 = ~2.4 points per game at the free throw line to their opponents. Since free throw points generally represent ~20% of all points scored in a typical college game compared with ~50% for 2-point field goals and ~30% on 3-pointers, the Zips have that other 80% of total points scored to make up the extra 2.4 points per game they give up to their opponents at the free throw line.

Conclusion:

The final scores of college basketball games are determined by the combined performance in all areas of both the offensive and defensive games, not just one or two obvious ones. Giving up an average of 2.4 points per game at the free throw line is just one area of the game, one that could be more than offset by averaging 2 more field goals or 1 more 3-pointer per game. The Zips' below average 2-point and 3-point field goal shooting percentages are as important an issue as their free throw shooting deficit. Likewise the inability of the Zips defense to stop defenders from driving to the basket without fouling (remember Zeke?) is yet another area where a small improvement could pay big dividends. It's up to the coaching staff to determine the areas of performance where improvement is likely to pay the biggest dividends based on the abilities of the players they have to work with.

Very good stats, Dave.

Can you do just the 2nd half of the season?

I'd be very surprised if the difference is only 2.4 points.

[Dave in Green]

Glib, the numbers I cited are from a season database that's not sortable by just half season or conference vs. non-conference games. I did find another database that breaks out the Zips stats for the 17 conference games to date but doesn't show our opponents' numbers for those games. Here are the Zips conference vs. season numbers:

Personal fouls per game:

Zips average 19.6 in conference vs. 18.5 for the whole season.

Free throw attempts per game:

Zips average 16.2 in conference vs. 17.5 for the whole season.

Assuming our opponents' numbers moved a similar amount, a rough estimate would make the difference more in the 3.5-4.0 point range in conference games. This would tend to fit the model of a larger percentage of road games in conference play than non-conference, and away teams tend to get less benefit on calls by officials than home teams.

[The Hip Zip]

Are MAC officials pretty bad ? Yes. Do MAC officials have it in for the Zips? No.

Go to the hole, go to the line. It's really that simple. Even this guy figured it out:

[The Hip Zip]

I see a lot of MAC games, not just the Zips and this was one of the best officiated games I've seen in this conference in quite awhile

[UAZip0510]

I see a lot of MAC games, not just the Zips and this was one of the best officiated games I've seen in this conference in quite awhile

I'm not sure how. Inconsistent all game, per the usual. Not blaming the loss on it, but it's rarely good, which is frustrating.

[LZIp]

What's the point of beating the same dead horse after nearly every game (and especially every loss)?. Deji shouldn't have put himself in the position for an iffy call when he had 4 fouls. Don't leave it up to the officials!

[Sportsjunkie330]

What's the point of beating the same dead horse after nearly every game (and especially every loss)?.

Amen. At some point it isn't the teachers fault.

[UAZip0510]

What's the point of beating the same dead horse after nearly every game (and especially every loss)?. Deji shouldn't have put himself in the position for an iffy call when he had 4 fouls. Don't leave it up to the officials!

Frustration?

And Deji had a clean drive to the lane - can't stop playing your game.

[ewbrooman1]

I find it kind of interesting that P.J. Carstensen who did our game last night in Can't that wasn't over until 9:15 pm or so, also did today's noon game between the Hoosiers and Spartans in Bloomington, Indiana. That's a heck of a turnaround in terms of travel. It's about a six hour drive from here to Bloomington and the earliest commercial flight arrival time this morning to Indy from CLE I could find (based on next Saturday's flights) for today was 9:30 am and not direct. Then it is a 1 hour drive to Bloomington from the airport. Cutting it close I would think. I've seen Larry Scirotto do the same type of thing. I guess it happens a lot, but I'm not sure I'd want that guy doing my game a little more than 12 hours later the next day. Maybe they're all pilots, too? Definitely road warriors.

[Sportsjunkie330]

I find it kind of interesting that P.J. Carstensen who did our game last night in Can't that wasn't over until 9:15 pm or so, also did today's noon game between the Hoosiers and Spartans in Bloomington, Indiana. That's a heck of a turnaround in terms of travel. It's about a six hour drive from here to Bloomington and the earliest commercial flight arrival time this morning to Indy from CLE I could find (based on next Saturday's flights) for today was 9:30 am and not direct. Then it is a 1 hour drive to Bloomington from the airport. Cutting it close I would think. I've seen Larry Scirotto do the same type of thing. I guess it happens a lot, but I'm not sure I'd want that guy doing my game a little more than 12 hours later the next day. Maybe they're all pilots, too? Definitely road warriors.

5 hour drive. not out of the ordinary at all for refs.

[The Hip Zip]

Just further evidence that there is a drastic shortage of quality officials. They earn every dime they make and then some. In most cases I refuse to be critical of them, however there are a few compete hacks like Spencer that have no business being on the floor.

[LZIp]

So the same refs that are reffing the MAC are also reffing games for MSU and Indiana? Maybe they are a little better than a lot of people make them out to be.

[Dave in Green]

As previously acknowledged by critics of MAC officiating, some of the same refs that are reffing the MAC are also reffing games for MSU and Indiana and other B1G games.

[akronzips71]

The call that fouled out Big Dog was just absurd.

[skip-zip]

As previously acknowledged by critics of MAC officiating, some of the same refs that are reffing the MAC are also reffing games for MSU and Indiana and other B1G games.

Which means nothing, other than the fact that it's easier to have guys working games in the same region of the country.

[skip-zip]

The call that fouled out Big Dog was just absurd.

And the one that got Deji on what would have been a 3-point play was even worse.

[Dave in Green]

Might as well get used to the fact that Big Dog is going to get screwed on calls due his massive size. Opponents bang pretty hard on him, but the refs ignore it because his big body barely moves even when hit hard. And when he starts that slow, back-in dribble to the basket, opponents are learning to fake exaggerated flops because the refs take the bait and whistle Big Dog for hammering the poor little defender. It was one of many non-calls on Big Dog being hammered at Miami that drew protests from the Akron bench that the refs rewarded with a technical.

[Dr Z]

Might as well get used to the fact that Big Dog is going to get screwed on calls due his massive size.

Gravity screws him when he leaps at three point shooters.