Critiquing Coach Bowden

[kreed5120]

11 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

You mean the year when we went 7-5 in the regular season and won our first Bowl game ever?  I completely disagree.  Most in the MAC had us finishing second behind Ohio, which is "Contending in the MAC". Yeah, that one.  I only made the arbitrary "two year comparison" because you brought it up as a metric for EMU.  

 

We were basically in the exact same situation as them.  Chris Creighton arguably had a worse success in order to get to a bowl game than we did:  2-10, 1-11 then 7-6 Bowl Loss.  Can you imagine if we'd have that here?  We'd fired  the guy after those two seasons and repeated the failure wagon, allowing it continue to spin.  Akron went 1-11, 5-7, 5-then 8-5.  Arguably positioned better than that in the second 5-7 year (injuries derailed that season yet again) and then arguably positioned to repeat last year with a Bowl appearance if not, again, for injury.  That IS competing in the MAC.  I am currently unhappy, yes.  I want more.  But I'm not willing to pretend like Chris Creighton is somehow this great get we "could" have had.  Everything you could point to say Creighton is great, we could find an equal comparison to Bowden's tenure here.  

 

I know injuries aren't an excuse...but Akron's been one hell of a snake-bitten organization.  Like it's almost cursed.  I'm tired of pulling my hair out in frustration.  But I'm also worried to death that the people running athletics don't know what their doing.  Do I really trust them to blow it up...again...and get it right? 

This is college football, 60% of the teams make bowl games including a few 5-7 teams. After tie-breakers we finished 7th that year in the MAC out of 13 teams. That is indeed the bottom half of the conference. You keep trying to compare the Zips to Zips teams of old. That's not the benchmark we should be striving for. We should be striving to be one of, if not the best, program in the MAC. In year 6 we're nowhere close to being there.

 

I don't think Creighton is the next coming of Fleck, but he certainly has them progressing. They actually compete against the MAC top teams, we really haven't. They surprised everyone last year and look even better this year. Bowden's Akron team peaked in year 4 and has regressed since. All programs suffer injuries. Those same guys who were starting because of injuries last season are now starters and the reason we are losing this season. 

 

Edit: We're in year 6. That's an eternity in the coaching world. We might be the only fan base in the country that would have fans defending a coach that is well on his way to going making 1 bowl game in 6 years.

Edited September 26, 2017 by kreed5120

[K92]

35 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

We might be the only fan base in the country that would have fans defending a coach that is well on his way to going making 1 bowl game in 6 years.

I wish Zips fans were fans, meaning I wish they were fanatic.  The level of the average Akron fan's fanaticism is somewhere around the level of a soccer mom.

[Cykron]

I haven't read all the posts here, but one of the early ones talked about firing him after his contract runs out.  Generally, I think it would be very bad to let a coach''s contract run out.  If he doesn't have a year or two on his contract, then you are telling recruits to have no confidence that he will be there.  So, not only are you firing the coach, but you are sacrificing a few recruiting years prior to firing him.  

[ZachTheZip]

It's easier to eat a few years of a coach's contract when your conference gets a share of the playoff money every year. The Big 12 gets over $20 million from it every year. the MAC gets about $1 million to split between all its members. And then we get to hear talk about how if we wanted to be "big time" we should spend more money. How many power conference programs would financially collapse if the playoffs distributed money mostly equally like the pro sports leagues do?

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

This is college football, 60% of the teams make bowl games including a few 5-7 teams. After tie-breakers we finished 7th that year in the MAC out of 13 teams. That is indeed the bottom half of the conference. You keep trying to compare the Zips to Zips teams of old. That's not the benchmark we should be striving for. We should be striving to be one of, if not the best, program in the MAC. In year 6 we're nowhere close to being there.

 

I don't think Creighton is the next coming of Fleck, but he certainly has them progressing. They actually compete against the MAC top teams, we really haven't. They surprised everyone last year and look even better this year. Bowden's Akron team peaked in year 4 and has regressed since. All programs suffer injuries. Those same guys who were starting because of injuries last season are now starters and the reason we are losing this season. 

 

Edit: We're in year 6. That's an eternity in the coaching world. We might be the only fan base in the country that would have fans defending a coach that is well on his way to going making 1 bowl game in 6 years.

 

This is fair.  I respect this.  I'm just trying to add some objectivity.

[ZippyRulz]

49 minutes ago, Cykron said:

I haven't read all the posts here, but one of the early ones talked about firing him after his contract runs out.  Generally, I think it would be very bad to let a coach''s contract run out.  If he doesn't have a year or two on his contract, then you are telling recruits to have no confidence that he will be there.  So, not only are you firing the coach, but you are sacrificing a few recruiting years prior to firing him.  

 

Right. Something has to be done this year, either an extension or a firing or a retiring. The AD is well aware of this.

 

[LZIp]

1 hour ago, ZachTheZip said:

It's easier to eat a few years of a coach's contract when your conference gets a share of the playoff money every year. The Big 12 gets over $20 million from it every year. the MAC gets about $1 million to split between all its members. And then we get to hear talk about how if we wanted to be "big time" we should spend more money. How many power conference programs would financially collapse if the playoffs distributed money mostly equally like the pro sports leagues do?

I have been reading about Harbaugh and Meyer complaining about certain Big Ten opponent facilities. Does Purdue have the money?? Don't know, but I find it amusing that the coaches of programs literally swimming in money are the ones expecting to be catered to

[ZachTheZip]

As part of the Big Ten, Purdue gets more from the college football playoff (all D-I FBS schools are purportedly a part of the agreement) than Akron's entire athletic budget. every single year. That's not counting TV money, which I am fine with as a "free market" system (along with merchandising) unlike the playoff contract payouts which should be evenly distributed to create a competitive environment since athletic competition should operate in a way that is fair to all competitors.

 

So yeah, Purdue has no idea how good they have it, to say nothing of OSU and Michigan.

[ZippyRulz]

How many more years does TB get extended with a win over Kent? I think the over/under must be 3.5. He is already still under contract for next year. Any chance he gets a job offer elsewhere with a MACE and/or MACC?

 

[zippy5]

11 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

How many more years does TB get extended with a win over Kent? I think the over/under must be 3.5. He is already still under contract for next year. Any chance he gets a job offer elsewhere with a MACE and/or MACC?

 

I think a 3 year extension is in order if he wins to get him up to a 4 year deal. Another bowl next year and I might look at adding to that, but baby steps

[72 Roo]

If I were king I would give him two more years. Those two coupled with the one he has left should reduce recruits concern over how long he will be here. I said reduce and not eliminate because we rewinding despite the coaching, not because of it. We win now because the staff has been getting better at recruiting and it is starting to show in both performance and depth. Still we have huge problems with special teams, our OL is poor, Milwee is questionable and discipline is an issue. 

 

All that being said, if Williams gives TB three additional years I won't lose sleep over it. One game doesn't make a season, but I've got to hand it to TB, he won a big one last night. Congratulations and destroy Kent.

[Balsy]

45 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

How many more years does TB get extended with a win over Kent? I think the over/under must be 3.5. He is already still under contract for next year. Any chance he gets a job offer elsewhere with a MACE and/or MACC?

 

Bowden will retire as head coach of the Akron Zips (I've been saying this for years, but consider them marked). 

 

I say he'll get a 3-year extension.  His original contract was 5 years.  After two, it was extended for another 2 keeping it at 5-years.

[Lee Adams]

3 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

If I were king I would give him two more years. Those two coupled with the one he has left should reduce recruits concern over how long he will be here. I said reduce and not eliminate because we rewinding despite the coaching, not because of it. We win now because the staff has been getting better at recruiting and it is starting to show in both performance and depth. Still we have huge problems with special teams, our OL is poor, Milwee is questionable and discipline is an issue. 

 

All that being said, if Williams gives TB three additional years I won't lose sleep over it. One game doesn't make a season, but I've got to hand it to TB, he won a big one last night. Congratulations and destroy Kent.

IF, they beat Portage CC he gets 2 more. If not and misses the MAC Champ game by losing to a really bad team,nothing. Re-evaluate. Frankly,by accident,Kato Nelson may extend Bowden's time at Akron. After seeing Nelson for two weeks I wonder what the coaching staff was looking at in practice all season. Beat KSWHOO.

[Lee Adams]

On 9/20/2017 at 3:55 PM, skip-zip said:

 

 

Wow.  For two guys who have spent a lot of time here, I can't believe you're both wrong.  

 

The 1992 team still holds the "best record" title with a 7-3-1 mark.  

 

Bowden's distinction is that he had the first team to reach 8 wins in a season.  

1992 was not he 'best team'. Got to look objectively at the 2003,2004, or 2005 teams. Frankly,the '05 team that won the MAC Champeenship with JD,Getsy,Hixon,and the 'Bowling Ball' Biggs at RB was the best IMHO. That team beat the 'best' team,NIU in the MAC twice that year.

[skip-zip]

Geez Lee.  Do you know how large of a debate you would ignite if you ask us all to throw out the records, and actually argue over which team appeared to be the best? 

 

I'm sure I was correcting someone who didn't know which season produced our best record.  

 

But since I've spent some time already talking about that 2005 team, they did indeed have NIU's number that year.  Once at The Bowl, and the incredible comeback in Detroit.  But remember, that team also lost 20-0 to Army...AT HOME.  It was a wild year.  And they needed a lot of help over that last month to get into that title game.  

Edited November 16, 2017 by skip-zip

[Balsy]

1 hour ago, Lee Adams said:

IF, they beat Portage CC he gets 2 more. If not and misses the MAC Champ game by losing to a really bad team,nothing. Re-evaluate. Frankly,by accident,Kato Nelson may extend Bowden's time at Akron. After seeing Nelson for two weeks I wonder what the coaching staff was looking at in practice all season. Beat KSWHOO.

 

He didn't look that good at the begining of the year...remember, we had a HUGE debate on this forum where the Fire-Bowden contingency had a meltdown over Nelson being listed last.

[zipsoutsider]

I think Kato played really well last night, but I would argue that if we would have gone more to a pass first offense with Woody, we would have seen similar results. Also bear in mind, we are running with a smaller playbook with Nelson, right now, and he might hit a wall against another team. Not saying he will, but it's a possibility. The coaches are working hard to help him succeed.

[zzx]

3 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

I think Kato played really well last night, but I would argue that if we would have gone more to a pass first offense with Woody, we would have seen similar results. Also bear in mind, we are running with a smaller playbook with Nelson, right now, and he might hit a wall against another team. Not saying he will, but it's a possibility. The coaches are working hard to help him succeed.

 

- Kato threw for more yards vs. Ohio (322) and more TD's (4) than Woodson did in any single game this season

 

- Seems Woodson hit a wall all season as he never hit the 300 passing-yard threshold in any of his 9 starts this season (averaged only 193.56 yards/game)

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by zzx

[zipsoutsider]

6 hours ago, zzx said:

 

- Kato threw for more yards vs. Ohio (322) and more TD's (4) than Woodson did in any single game this season

 

- Seems Woodson hit a wall all season as he never hit the 300 passing-yard threshold in any of his 9 starts this season (averaged only 193.56 yards/game)

 

Receivers juseer started catching balls versus Buffalo and our offensive approach was completely different against Ohio. Bowden said he thought the big play would be there because Ohio did not grab jerseys when the receivers beat them and pretty much everyone else did.

[kreed5120]

There isn't much of a market for 60+ year old coaches unless your name is Nick Saban. With a win over Kent, Bowden will likely get a 2-3 year extension. Akron in all likelihood is his last job. It's just a matter of if he'll leave on his own terms or if we will be canned in a few years.

[Lee Adams]

9 hours ago, zzx said:

 

- Kato threw for more yards vs. Ohio (322) and more TD's (4) than Woodson did in any single game this season

 

- Seems Woodson hit a wall all season as he never hit the 300 passing-yard threshold in any of his 9 starts this season (averaged only 193.56 yards/game)

 

Nelson is a very different athlete when compared to Woodson. Bowden said it himself in the post game press conference. He said,not someone else that Nelson just opens things up for the offense. And he does. Bowden knew for a long time the difference in the type and level of physical talent between Nelson and Woodson. He saw it every day. Maybe he just wanted to be loyal to the senior for as long as he could. I get that. But,the offense sputtered around a lot up to and including the win over WMU. Just wonder why we didn't see more of Nelson during the season. We have to hope that Zips don't end up 6-6 after being on the verge  of the biggest accomplishment in Bowden's tenure. NOTHING is better for Akron than at least finally playing again for the MAC Championship. If this team gets there,Bowden will be back unless he wants to retire.

Have fun with this! Who knows when we see it again.

[zipsoutsider]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

There isn't much of a market for 60+ year old coaches unless your name is Nick Saban. With a win over Kent, Bowden will likely get a 2-3 year extension. Akron in all likelihood is his last job. It's just a matter of if he'll leave on his own terms or if we will be canned in a few years.

I agree. The only other job that seems like it could tempt him would be a job at WVU, but I agree with kreed: colleges want the young guys.

[ZippyRulz]

3 MORE YEARS! 

 

3 MORE YEARS! 

[Balsy]

3 MORE YEARS, 3 MORE YEARS!!

[ZippyRulz]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:19 AM, kreed5120 said:

There isn't much of a market for 60+ year old coaches unless your name is Nick Saban. With a win over Kent, Bowden will likely get a 2-3 year extension. Akron in all likelihood is his last job. It's just a matter of if he'll leave on his own terms or if we will be canned in a few years.

 

Didn't his daddy coach until about age 85? Let's wait and see which AAC jobs come open. UCF will for sure and Cinci too soon enough.