Game 7—Western Michigan Broncos (2016)

[Blue & Gold]

9 hours ago, tboned said:

The blown calls early in the game were intentional. The missed PI ,and the negated interception. The spot on that 4th n 1 was terrible. I wandered what the hell the refs were doing. I sit on the 50 and we clearly had a first down. The MAC wants nothing more than to have a team ranked. A win by Akron would certainly have dropped WMU out of the rankings. It was quite obvious to me. Maybe the outcome would have been the same.

The outcome W-L wise would have most likely been the same, but the tone of the game could have possibly been quite different with those calls.  They were big.  

 

On the Zips very first possession there was an obvious hold on JoJo over the middle.  A ref was looking right at the play.  It was a well-thrown ball by TC5 and would have at least been a first down... if JoJo catches it cleanly, perhaps much more.

 

And the negated INT by DeAndre Scott was a definite kick in the balls.

 

Again, the final outcome wouldn't have been different.  But we couldn't afford WMU to jump on us early and that's exactly what happened.  Those two calls were pretty big in helping that happen.

 

(From where I was sitting I couldn't say anything about the spot on 4th down.)

[Blue & Gold]

16 hours ago, 330Zip said:

1) I was at the game and watched the coaching staff stick with Chapman for far to long... 

 

2) Coaches need to be honest with him...

 

3) His best bet at having a successful senior year next year it's at a new position. 

Welcome to ZipsNation!

 

1) Yeah, I hear you.  Idk if the coaches know TC5's psyche is fragile as glass, or what.  But if you watched the Zips last year, many on this board thought they stuck w/ TC5 far too long last year as well.  Woody didn't get any PT last year until our 3rd game, IIRC.

 

2) That might be a really good way of putting it.

 

3) TC5 looks like he'd be a killer RB.  W/ TC5 lining up @ RB would afford us plenty of opportunities for a little trickeration.  But I agree.  Next year.  With Kato playing QB next year, we won't need TC5 backing up Woody.

 

I'm just crossing my fingers for Woody to get healthy.  TC5's a nice backup, but we're going nowhere this season if Woody can't go.  I'm nervous about these next few weeks.  The program's on the rise, but we could fall back into obscurity very easily if Woody doesn't lead us.

[zipsoutsider]

57 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

 

Then get him some game experience so we can have a true backup.

Chapman just can not throw. Every ball goes right into coverage and is a potential pick. He is a liability.

 

This is NOT personal against Chapman. He just should not be playing at QB

It would be a waste of talent and provide enough value to burn a redshirt at th8s point in the season, especially if Bowden is expecting Woodson to be back. You might as well say we have decided not to compete for the rest of the season if we burn the redshirt and that we are committing to Kato for next year. I don't think that is the plan. It looks like the plan is for Kato to start during his redshirt sophomore year and to be the back-up next year. It's a pretty reasonable plan. He should be ready to lead the team by that point. Putting a kid in too early can be counter-productive. I think trying to force Chapman into the starter role last year probably did more harm to his game than good 

[skip-zip]

3 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

On the Zips very first possession there was an obvious hold on JoJo over the middle.  A ref was looking right at the play.  It was a well-thrown ball by TC5 and would have at least been a first down... if JoJo catches it cleanly, perhaps much more.

 

And the negated INT by DeAndre Scott was a definite kick in the balls.

 

Again, the final outcome wouldn't have been different.  But we couldn't afford WMU to jump on us early and that's exactly what happened.  Those two calls were pretty big in helping that happen.

 

This is exactly how I was seeing it too.  And I can add the interference on JoJo down near the goal line that never got called too.  

 

We could have stayed within striking distance much, much longer if these calls had not gone against us, and the game could have entertained the fans for a little bit longer.  It probably was just prolonging the agony, but a miracle could have happened.  We were just dominated.  Giving up 6.9 yards per rush is just staggering.    

[Blue & Gold]

12 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 Giving up 6.9 yards per rush is just staggering.    

 

Of the three big DT transfers we've had over the last 3 seasons (what's his name from Florida State... Rodney Coe from Iowa State... & now Jelani Hamilton from Miami), Jelani's been the least productive.  By far.  We really needed him to be a 1st Team All-MAC type of performer this season to take some of the burden off of our inexperienced LB's & that really hasn't come close to happening.  For someone who's 6-5, 305 from the University of Miami, I was expecting more.

 

And Antonio Pittman is, IMHO, really underperforming.  He's almost never in on the action.  I believe I remember him getting his name called once last night?  He's having what I'd consider a very underwhelming senior season.

 

Oh, well.  Our front 7 is radically different than it was last year & I guess we're just gonna have to take our lumps this season.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Blue & Gold

[Buckzip]

5 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

Of the three big DT transfers we've had over the last 3 seasons (what's his name from Florida State... Rodney Coe from Iowa State... & now Jelani Hamilton from Miami), Jelani's been the least productive.  By far.  We really needed him to be a 1st Team All-MAC type of performer this season to take some of the burden off of our inexperienced LB's & that really hasn't come close to happening.  For someone who's 6-5, 305 from the University of Miami, I was expecting more.

 

And Antonio Pittman is, IMHO, really underperforming.  He's almost never in on the action.  I believe I remember him getting his name called once last night?  He's having what I'd consider a very underwhelming senior season.

 

Oh, well.  Our front 7 is radically different than it was last year & I guess we're just gonna have to take our lumps this season.

Antonio Pittman? He was an RB.  I think you mean Sevon. Yes, he's been very disappointing 

[Blue & Gold]

^^Oops, right, right.  Thanks!

 

[Captain Kangaroo]

Hustlebelt Chimes In

[Captain Kangaroo]

#get_paddled

 

Tip your helmet to the Broncos. Definitely a Top 25 Football Program.

[ZippyRulz]

We gave up less points to this ranked WMU team than last year's stellar defense did to BG, so there's that...

 

[Lee Adams]

Please don't pummel me for coming in late this season. But,I deliberately decided not to post until after the WMU game. I figured that would give the truest indication of how the ZIPS actually stack up against top notch MAC teams. That did not go well.

Don't think having Woodson play was going to make a big difference in the outcome. Zips may have put up a few points but not enough against that quality opponent. The offense has no real options at this point. The running game is non-existent. Whether thats mostly play calling I don't know for sure. Could be but that part of the offense is not being used. And,with Woodson out(for whatever reason) it should be.Go to two backs,more H-back. Take some of the game out of Chapman's hands and try to keep the D off the field. Chapman obviously is not viable against good competition. Nothing more to say. JoJo Natson is a warrior!!!! Too bad Lane appears otherwise. If they are not careful he may become the ZIPS next David Harvey. 

Upfront the defense has pretty much been a mess all season. Yes they lost a lot. Yes there have been some injuries but the inability to even slow down the running game at this point in the season is really amazing. No D-linemen there who are really noticeable at least the way Amato is scheming them. Secondary has been hung out to dry but there have been some decent individual plays back there.

At this point the only way the ZIPS go to Ford Field is to 'Beat The East'. They have to beat Buffalo,BGSU and OU. Too much to expect wins over BSU and Toledo. Frankly,with the BSU and Buffalo games within 5 days of each other, the UB game is far more important. But,unless they handle UB,BGSU and finally beat OU,the rest doesn't matter.

One last comment, left the game a little early. Caught the last few minutes on TV. One of the TV commentators said that WMU had some really good players AND a really good TEAM. He said Akron had some good players but was not a good TEAM. Ummm.

Here's hoping for better things ahead.

[Dr Z]

43 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Don't think having Woodson play was going to make a big difference in the outcome.

Woodson is a difference maker at the most important position in the game. 

 

44 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Here's hoping for better things ahead.

The injuries are significant and are eating into our depth. Some good fortune has to be around the corner with all the bad luck they are having in the injury department. 

 

48 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Take some of the game out of Chapman's hands and try to keep the D off the field.

Coach commented in a presser that the offensive play calling doesn't change between the two QBs. I would alter that philosophy this week if Tra was going to start again. Not a lot, just limit some of the crossing middle deep options. I might use the 12 personnel some more. 

[skip-zip]

1 minute ago, Dr Z said:

Coach commented in a presser that the offensive play calling doesn't change between the two QBs. I would alter that philosophy this week if Tra was going to start again. Not a lot, just limit some of the crossing middle deep options. 

 

You may have missed an important detail.  I've heard him say that the offense we run doesn't change.  

 

But, you can certainly alter the plays that are called to give us a chance at more success when he is in the game.  I've seen a little bit of that in the Miami and Kent games.  This week, we were going after the big plays maybe far too often, and most of his long balls were poorly under thrown.  

 

I agree with you that I think we really fail if we want to count on TC to make accurate throws downfield, compared to Tommy, against good competition.  

[kreed5120]

I missed this game because I prioritized Indians ALCS game ahead of it. My intentions were to watch the replay on watchespn, but given the outcome I think it's just best to forget about that game and move onto the next one.

[zipsoutsider]

Yes, WMU is top notch MAC, but they are better than the average top notch MAC team. The injuries are starting to become demoralizing.

[Captain Kangaroo]

27 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Yes, WMU is top notch MAC, but they are better than the average top notch MAC team. 

As Hustlebelt pointed out, two weeks ago they beat 5-2 CMU by 39 points in Mount Pleasant. 

 

It would have been fun to play them with a full roster...it wasn't so fun to play them with one hand tied behind our back.

[Dr Z]

18th best in the nation Western Michigan Broncos

The expectation was that Western Michigan’s unbeaten start to the season would be tested on the road against Akron, but those expectations proved greatly exaggerated as the Broncos cruised to a 41-0 victory. One key for the Broncos has been the play of the offensive line, here right tackle Taylor Moton (83.0 overall) and left tackle Chukwuma Okorafor (78.8), earned the two highest grades on offense.

 

source: pff

[Z.I.P.]

I walked out early in the second quarter of this debacle on Saturday.  The saving grace may be that this could very well be the best MAC football team ever we got trashed by.  Then I turn on the radio and ESPN announcers are talking not about the horrid defeat Akron suffered across both sides of the ball -- but what must be the Bush League Play of the Week!  Don't we have a coach with any common sense?!  How could something this stupid be allowed? 

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/10/akron_burns_an_oar_western_mic.html

[zipsoutsider]

26 minutes ago, Z.I.P. said:

I walked out early in the second quarter of this debacle on Saturday.  The saving grace may be that this could very well be the best MAC football team ever we got trashed by.  Then I turn on the radio and ESPN announcers are talking not about the horrid defeat Akron suffered across both sides of the ball -- but what must be the Bush League Play of the Week!  Don't we have a coach with any common sense?!  How could something this stupid be allowed? 

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/10/akron_burns_an_oar_western_mic.html

I have not seen any reference to this by anyone from Akron. Has it been verified? I would not rule it out as a Fleck ploy.

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, Z.I.P. said:

I walked out early in the second quarter of this debacle on Saturday.  The saving grace may be that this could very well be the best MAC football team ever we got trashed by.  Then I turn on the radio and ESPN announcers are talking not about the horrid defeat Akron suffered across both sides of the ball -- but what must be the Bush League Play of the Week!  Don't we have a coach with any common sense?!  How could something this stupid be allowed? 

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/10/akron_burns_an_oar_western_mic.html

You came from Hawaii to witness that?

[Buckzip]

1 hour ago, zipsoutsider said:

I have not seen any reference to this by anyone from Akron. Has it been verified? I would not rule it out as a Fleck ploy.

They showed it on TV before the game. I thought it was pretty classless. 

[ZippyRulz]

1 hour ago, Buckzip said:

They showed it on TV before the game. I thought it was pretty classless. 

 

WMU players never talk trash? The only difference is in who can back it up.

 

[ziptageous]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:16 PM, zipsoutsider said:

The kids who left were not better than Woodson or Chapman. They were not good fits. An offense can't be all things to all people. Yes, if you have a chance with a special kid you might change your offensive mindset to accommodate, but we did not have an offensive threat that fit into that. We are building into an offensive program with speed that takes advantage of big play threats. Kato Nelson will likely be the best QB to do that, but probably not until 2018. When Pohl was behind center we were terrible at red zone conversions. KP was a nice kid, but their was zero chemistry with receivers and the offense played without any sense of inspiration. We could not move forward as a program with him as the starter. I don't blame the coaches for going for a change. Woodson's weight gain took him out of the running and he responded, earned his spot and here we are, at 4-3, disappointed that we were soundly beat by top 25 team.

 

BGSU has improved throughout this season and Ball State will compete. We should be able to win out, except for Toledo, but all of the teams on our schedule are capable of beating us. The MAC has a ton of parity and almost any team can beat any other team on any given day, except Toledo and WMU.

 

We would be a different team if we had some more help on defense. It's hard to say what transfers we tried to get and were unable to secure. The young defensive players are gaining a ton of experience this year and maybe we have to suffer through a year like this to transition form a defense that relied on transfers to one that builds on our own developed talent. There is a lot to forward to as these kids develop. Players I am watching: Davis (Fr), Guiser (Jr), Kryon Brown (R-Jr), Deon'Tae Moore (Jr), Boxen (So), Hauser (R-Jr), Jordan George (So), Featherstone (R-So), Lako (R-FR), and Jest (Fr.)

 

I haven't seen John Rachal on the field in a couple of games - is he injured or benched?

That is easy to say the guys that left were not as good as Woodson and Chapman.  That is a lot harder to prove.  Woody and Chapman were the only two given any chance last year and in Spring.  With regard to the others, you never know what a kid can do unless you see them in scrimmages or game situations and they were never given that chance.   I never saw them given any situations where they could show anything and I watched a ton of practices and scrimmages.  I did see Hoyer last spring and did not think he threw well. 1 for 12 said enough, not really fast enough.  He's a nice kid and graduates this year and got his first snap in a game a few weeks back.  Good for him and I am glad he did.  As for KP last season, totally correct in that he was a non-emotional player and did not say much.  You are right in that pointing out he didn't have good chemistry and to me a QB must bring emotional energy and passion to the field.  Kyle was not that kind of player.   However, he still had some big games he performed well in under his belt.  Chapman had no place starting and going as far as he did into last season and most agree he is not a QB.  With regard to who plays and who doesn't it says one thing, a coach just wants to be proved right until he looks like a fool.  Chapman's terrible start last season including the first half against Savannah State who had not won a game in over 2 years proved foolish coaching decisions were made.  By doing that and not letting KP start that first game sent him into a funk of wondering why.  In my opinion he was done after that, totally out of it even without a concussion.  Asking a guy to come in after that kind of starting situation is a huge mental hurdle to overcome.  To me, that was bad coaching.  In the end, defense saved the say and the O had just enough to get us there.  Woody emerged and showed he could do something to help lead the team.  Lack of consistent offense will continue to be a problem, even next season.  Defense may be down a little bit this year but I think next year its going to be much better. 

[zipsoutsider]

49 minutes ago, ziptageous said:

That is easy to say the guys that left were not as good as Woodson and Chapman.  That is a lot harder to prove.  Woody and Chapman were the only two given any chance last year and in Spring.  With regard to the others, you never know what a kid can do unless you see them in scrimmages or game situations and they were never given that chance.   I never saw them given any situations where they could show anything and I watched a ton of practices and scrimmages.  I did see Hoyer last spring and did not think he threw well. 1 for 12 said enough, not really fast enough.  He's a nice kid and graduates this year and got his first snap in a game a few weeks back.  Good for him and I am glad he did.  As for KP last season, totally correct in that he was a non-emotional player and did not say much.  You are right in that pointing out he didn't have good chemistry and to me a QB must bring emotional energy and passion to the field.  Kyle was not that kind of player.   However, he still had some big games he performed well in under his belt.  Chapman had no place starting and going as far as he did into last season and most agree he is not a QB.  With regard to who plays and who doesn't it says one thing, a coach just wants to be proved right until he looks like a fool.  Chapman's terrible start last season including the first half against Savannah State who had not won a game in over 2 years proved foolish coaching decisions were made.  By doing that and not letting KP start that first game sent him into a funk of wondering why.  In my opinion he was done after that, totally out of it even without a concussion.  Asking a guy to come in after that kind of starting situation is a huge mental hurdle to overcome.  To me, that was bad coaching.  In the end, defense saved the say and the O had just enough to get us there.  Woody emerged and showed he could do something to help lead the team.  Lack of consistent offense will continue to be a problem, even next season.  Defense may be down a little bit this year but I think next year its going to be much better. 

 

I think KP was actually done after the 2014 season. He threw too many interceptions and TB, rightfully, let the QBs know that the guy who took care of the ball would win the job. Who knows how these guys prepare in the off season, outside of scheduled practices, but Woodson seemed to be the guy, in the end, ho figured out how to protect the ball, Let's face it - all of their jobs became easier when they moved Lane to WR and gave them an athletic target.

 

Which players did you consider better? Caleb Chapman was a great kid, but no better than Hoyer. He is a RB at Gardiner Webb, now. He was a small school QB that just didn't have what it took to be a D1 QB. Chandler Kincaide had a knee injury his senior year of HS and was never the same.  Devyn Wood was a preferred walk-on and I don't think he made the 105 for camp. Preferred walk-ons don't normally get the same opportunities as scholarships.

 

There are moments when you can see why the coaches wanted to go with Chapman. He is athletic and when he plays within himself, he has a nice touch. Tommy made some poor decisions when he started when KP was injured but he grew out of them. I think everyone sort of hope the same would be true of Chapman. One thing about Chapman is that has never really had that full year to adjust to the speed of D1 football. He looks better in that area this year, but still has a way to go - although if Woodson comes back, he may never have the chance to develop that aspect of his game. Kids adjust to D1 football at different rates. Last year was his first real year and he didn't really see the field after Louisiana Lafayette. He showed improvement at KSU and Miami, but started to struggle, again in the second half against Miami. TC5 has been a good teammate and I hope he becomes either a RB or WR next year. I'd like to see him find a spot where he can succeed.

 

Tommy has done a fairly good job protecting the ball and has really grown into a solid decision-maker. He is a tank, and tough to take down and can move well enough with his feet to keep the defense on their heels. His completions have certainly increased with more talented receivers. He is a great leader on the field and leave it all out there, every game. Kato isn't ready yet and there is no one who has as complete of a game as him for us, right now.

 

I am looking forward to watching Kato Nelson grow into the next Zips QB. His video looks great and I have heard really good things from some of the players about his abilities.

[Blue & Gold]

http://www.ohio.com/sports/zips/university-of-akron-football-zips-looking-forward-after-controversy-clubbing-from-western-michigan-1.720231

 

Story still focussing on the Breaking an Oar Incident.

 

I was perplexed why anyone could care less the Zips broke an oar before the game.  With the way WMU uses the "Row" mantra, it seemed to me like an obvious thing to do - almost too obvious.  But the article points out that, "Western Michigan coach P.J. Fleck, however, started using the saying to honor his son who died as an infant."

 

Oh, okay then.  But do people know that?  I didn't know that.  I doubt any Zips knew that.  Is this common knowledge in the football world?  I don't think so.  This has turned into a strange situation, all-around.

 

This is what Fleck said about the Zips breaking the oar: “When they go low, we go high,” he said. “It was tacky. A little bit classless,” he said in his Tuesday news conference with WMU media.

 

Okay, again, dude, you gotta make it loud and clear where the little mantra came from.  I don't think anyone knew it was to honor your son.