kreed5120 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, 72 Roo said: Sure, look what analytics are doing for the Browns. I'd argue that everything is going according to plan. They stripped the team entirely like the Astros and 76ers did a few years back fully anticipating a really high pick, meanwhile, have stockpiled quite the arsenal of high draft picks. The strategy really can't be judged for another 2-3 years IMO. What is going to be key is actually turning those high draft picks into quality players. That's where Houston succeeded, but Philly failed. Edited November 23, 2016 by kreed5120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted November 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 hour ago, 72 Roo said: Skip, You may want to reread what I said. I never said we would have 2-3 bad years ahead. I said it would take 2-3 years to remove the bad taste of this season. It will take that long to establish credibility. That's all I meant. We could have done that this season with a 7-5 or 8-4 record. It would have served to show we are for real. That clock now needs to be rewound and started again. BTW, I was not amongst those who said OU was superior to us. The game last night again showed they suck, but so do we. Thanks for your posts. I enjoy them. No problem. Ok, I see what you meant now. I don't know. If that really experienced offense comes right out of the gate next year and goes nuts, everyone might soon forget this late-season collapse. I hope that injuries played a major factor too. We'll see what happens next September. But those fans who were on the fringe and moving closer to the program after last year have probably returned to hibernation. It might indeed take awhile now to get them back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Roo Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 54 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: Regardless, it's not a good sign when multiple current and former players take to social media to voice their displeasure with the Zips organization. You are right. Doesn't that just make you sick. We should have taken them several times, but the score is all that counts and we didn't. I need a beer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Roo Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Kreed, man you are definitely a "glass is half full" kind of guy. God bless you. I'm glad you are a Zip. We need more like you. As for the Browns, Haslam has no clue as to how to run a team. He does know how to not pay promised rebates and incur a 1 billion dollar fine from the dept of justice to make it all go away , but that is another story. One principle I have always believed in, and my company operates under, is that past performance is the biggest and truest measure of future success. Do you really believe this Browns management team can wisely use draft choices? Remember two of the three highest management positions on the team have never worked in pro football. I believe all Haslam has done is to succeed in making the Browns irrelevant in the lives of NE Ohioans. That is something I thought was impossible. So I guess he is capable of great things. With that track record let's keep him away from the Zips. Happy Thanksgiving my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 72 Roo, for sure the biggest predictor of future performance is past performance. If you are in the manufacturing sector you know this is a given. What does that say for Zips football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted November 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 5 hours ago, K92 said: 72 Roo, for sure the biggest predictor of future performance is past performance. Should this same assumption apply when you hire a coach who's been highly successful everywhere else he's coached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Roo Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Skip and 92, This principle points out that the Zips have a hell of a lot to do to change the culture to one of consistent success. That is why this season is so heart-breaking. We thought we were on our way. In the face of lack of past success change still can occur it is just a harder roe to hoe. Perhaps next year will bring the success we are crave and we build from there. We know we will have a pretty good team. To Skip's point a coach with a track record of success is very desirable if the conditions of his new job are similar. An example of where the conditions are not similar is a DIII coach going to DI or coach Faust going from Moeller to ND. Happy Thanksgiving guys. I wish all the nation the best of holiday. I am grateful for this forum. Thanks to the creators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 4 hours ago, skip-zip said: Should this same assumption apply when you hire a coach who's been highly successful everywhere else he's coached? 24-37 seems to shoot a couple of holes in my predictor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Unlike me defending the Browns coaches and front office, as it's kind of hard to say definitively one way or the other not even through year 1 of a 4 year plan, (certainly beats past regimes that had no plans and just tried to super glue and rubber band a team together), Bowden has kind of been around long enough (5 years and 2nd longest tenured MAC coach) that I feel it is fair to make judgements on what he has and hasn't accomplished. 2012 - 1-11 (0-8) 2013 - 5-7 (4-4) 2014 - 5-7 (3-5) 2015 - 8-5 (5-3) 2016 - 5-7 (3-5) After 5 years our best season was finishing 7th in the MAC and we have made only 1 bowl game. IMO we HAVE to win the bare minimum of 7 regular season games or Bowden needs to go, no excuses. He's had plenty of time to filter out coach I's trash. EMU was just in as bad of shape as we were and Creighton has turned them around in 3 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballzip Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) Back to the drawing board. If we can stay healthy, we should be ok. Too many injuries, and not much experienced depth led to this. Hopefully we can stay healthy and get back to a bowl game. Edited November 25, 2016 by footballzip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Defensively, if Boxen can get healthy and be ready to go we'll be much better than we were this year. Ibrahim Camara can also hold his own. It'd be nice if we got one more DT transfer... someone who will make much more of an impact than the bitterly disappointing Jelani Hamilton. We'll have two of the best LB's in the MAC next season in UGIII & Jamal Davis II. If James King works out, we'll have the best LB crew in the league. Our defensive backfield should be excellent. Offensively, Woody's health is the thing. Entire OL coming back. Hopefully they get better at run blocking. Wouldn't it be great if Warren Ball gets another year. We're gonna miss JoJo... but that's it. Maybe we'll finally beat Ohio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 22 hours ago, kreed5120 said: 2012 - 1-11 (0-8) 2013 - 5-7 (4-4) 2014 - 5-7 (3-5) 2015 - 8-5 (5-3) 2016 - 5-7 (3-5) After 5 years our best season was finishing 7th in the MAC and we have made only 1 bowl game. IMO we HAVE to win the bare minimum of 7 regular season games or Bowden needs to go, no excuses. He's had plenty of time to filter out coach I's trash. EMU was just in as bad of shape as we were and Creighton has turned them around in 3 years. Because injuries played zero part in us finishing 5-7 this year. This was going to be a down year anyway because of how many people we graduated, and everyone still expected 7 wins, in a down year! If not for injuries we get those two down the stretch. I also think you forget just how bad those I Coach teams were, and how many people we lost during that time period. Bowden is not and should not be on any kind of hot seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 23 hours ago, kreed5120 said: Unlike me defending the Browns coaches and front office, as it's kind of hard to say definitively one way or the other not even through year 1 of a 4 year plan, (certainly beats past regimes that had no plans and just tried to super glue and rubber band a team together), Bowden has kind of been around long enough (5 years and 2nd longest tenured MAC coach) that I feel it is fair to make judgements on what he has and hasn't accomplished. 2012 - 1-11 (0-8) 2013 - 5-7 (4-4) 2014 - 5-7 (3-5) 2015 - 8-5 (5-3) 2016 - 5-7 (3-5) After 5 years our best season was finishing 7th in the MAC and we have made only 1 bowl game. IMO we HAVE to win the bare minimum of 7 regular season games or Bowden needs to go, no excuses. He's had plenty of time to filter out coach I's trash. EMU was just in as bad of shape as we were and Creighton has turned them around in 3 years. That is accurate. Maybe I don't agree about Bowden having to go if 2017 is as bad as 2016,but IMO I don't attribute the horrible season this year only to injuries..Certainly that was a significant contributor. But,MOST programs have injuries to key players throughout and don't necessarily fall off 'the deep end'. Offensively,the injury to Woodson, at whatever degree of seriousness it might have been was significant. He appeared to be a SERVICEABLE QB given the receiving talent he had to throw to. While he improved over last season,he still doesn't impress me as a QB who can carry a program himself. He has to have help. Bowden gave it to him on the receiving side but IMO didn't do much for the run game. That was sorely needed once the QB situation again became muddled. One of my concerns with this coaching staff is that except maybe for the first season,they have not really been able to recruit enough decent QB's to keep that position stabilized if someone doesn't perform or gets hurt. On top of that offensively,it seems they are not flexible enough to successfully adjust when players get hurt or don't perform. Again,the 'backups that Bowden recruited were not capable(He whiffed on Chapman). And,Goodman just wasn't prepared to be a QB. Never did see Hoyer did we? I believe at least some of the offensive issues this year fall back on the coaching staff. One positive,I thought under the circumstances the O-Line played pretty decently. Defensively,this team was a mess from the jump. Yes,it lost significant talent. But,its also obvious that recruiting has not been at the level necessary to avoid the huge drop offs we saw this season. At this point Bowden and Amato should have developed enough in reserve so that the 'next man up' performed more competently. I am also not convinced that Amato was able/willing to adjust sufficiently to put the talent he had in the best position to be successful. Finally,when we look at the teams the Zips beat this year,they were really weak. Marshall turned out to be bad. They beat Miami early,thankfully or that may have been different. They beat BSU which might have been their 'best' win. But they managed to lose to two of the MAC bottom feeders this year when a couple of wins would have kept them in it. The East was there for the taking. What happens next season. I have seen posters here call for Milwee to be fired. I have seen people discuss how good another freshman Kato Nelson is going to be at QB. Another QB with no experience taking control of the offense? There needs to be some rethink on recruiting objectives. And,there needs to be a rethink on how to adjust when that becomes necessary. Re-up those season tix! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, g-mann17 said: Because injuries played zero part in us finishing 5-7 this year. This was going to be a down year anyway because of how many people we graduated, and everyone still expected 7 wins, in a down year! If not for injuries we get those two down the stretch. I also think you forget just how bad those I Coach teams were, and how many people we lost during that time period. Bowden is not and should not be on any kind of hot seat. Injuries are a part of the game. Ohio lost 2 QBs before the season even began. This team had absolutely no depth and that comes back to poor recruiting and player development. I'm fully aware how bad those coach I teams were and statistically this years Akron's defense was worse than of those teams... Bowden has been here 5 years. The players on the roster are guys he recruited. At some point you have to quit blaming coach I for Akron's current performance. Edited November 25, 2016 by kreed5120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, kreed5120 said: At some point you have to quit blaming coach I for Akron's current performance. I will still be blaming him 10 years from now, because that is how much he set us back. You also act like the only injuries we had were to are QB's. We lost 2 QB's, 2 RB's, 4 DL, and there were intermittent injuries on the O-Line and in our linebacking corp. At some point, no matter how deep a team is, that starts to take a toll. There are changes that should be made from an offensive scheme standpoint. If I see a 1st and 10 bomb, followed up by a 2nd and 10 bomb, followed up by a draw again I'm going to punch the person sitting next to me and blame it on iCoach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 2 hours ago, g-mann17 said: There are changes that should be made from an offensive scheme standpoint. If I see a 1st and 10 bomb, followed up by a 2nd and 10 bomb, followed up by a draw again I'm going to punch the person sitting next to me and blame it on iCoach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, g-mann17 said: I will still be blaming him 10 years from now, because that is how much he set us back. You also act like the only injuries we had were to are QB's. We lost 2 QB's, 2 RB's, 4 DL, and there were intermittent injuries on the O-Line and in our linebacking corp. At some point, no matter how deep a team is, that starts to take a toll. There are changes that should be made from an offensive scheme standpoint. If I see a 1st and 10 bomb, followed up by a 2nd and 10 bomb, followed up by a draw again I'm going to punch the person sitting next to me and blame it on iCoach. We clearly had some injury problems, but you will get that from time to time. The fact we had absolutely no depth at any position besides receiver is what killed us. It's not like the teams (BG and Buffalo particularly) were anything special. We had no depth because our coaches failed at recruiting and developing players. 2-10 Buffalo, who lost to FCS Albany, set their school rushing record against us. I don't care if we lost 6 players on the d-line and 6 linebackers. That shouldn't happen. Edited November 25, 2016 by kreed5120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 37 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: We clearly had some injury problems, but you will get that from time to time. The fact we had absolutely no depth at any position besides receiver is what killed us. It's not like the teams (BG and Buffalo particularly) were anything special. We had no depth because our coaches failed at recruiting and developing players. 2-10 Buffalo, who lost to FCS Albany, set their school rushing record against us. I don't care if we lost 6 players on the d-line and 6 linebackers. That shouldn't happen. Good luck trying to convince people on this site that Bowden isn't the messiah. They will come up with any excuse to vindicate his ineptitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 20 minutes ago, Zipgrad01 said: Good luck trying to convince people on this site that Bowden isn't the messiah. They will come up with any excuse to vindicate his ineptitude. I think there's a lot of room between messiah and inept that your hyperbole isn't accounting for 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 8 minutes ago, zippy5 said: I think there's a lot of room between messiah and inept that your hyperbole isn't accounting for Ok. Let me rephrase. Bowden is a lower to mid level MAC coach and people on this board think he is a lot better than he is. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Zipgrad01 said: Ok. Let me rephrase. I think Bowden is a lower to mid level MAC coach and people on this board think he is a lot better I do. Does that help? Sure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zipgrad01 said: Ok. Let me rephrase. Bowden is a lower to mid level MAC coach and people on this board think he is a lot better than he is. Does that help? Who would you like to replace Bowden? Someone that gives us the same "floor" with a comparable salary (which is right at the bottom of the MAC)? Because you know, the school has no money. How about providing some substantial discussion rather than just bitching all the time? Down seasons happen and are allowed to happen. I can understand getting the pitchforks out if it becomes a trend. Its not like the program just came off of its most successful season in D1 history. Edited November 26, 2016 by LZIp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, LZIp said: Who would you like to replace Bowden? Someone that gives us the same "floor" with a comparable salary (which is right at the bottom of the MAC)? Because you know, the school has no money. How about providing some substantial discussion rather than just bitching all the time? Down seasons happen and are allowed to happen. I can understand getting the pitchforks out if it becomes a trend. Its not like the program just came off of its most successful season in D1 history. And then tanked to 5-7 while getting spanked by buffalo and bowling green. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, LZIp said: Who would you like to replace Bowden? Someone that gives us the same "floor" with a comparable salary (which is right at the bottom of the MAC)? Because you know, the school has no money. How about providing some substantial discussion rather than just bitching all the time? Down seasons happen and are allowed to happen. I can understand getting the pitchforks out if it becomes a trend. Its not like the program just came off of its most successful season in D1 history. It isn't my job to figure out who should be running the program. That is why the university pays for an athletic director. All I can say is we have a staff that is mediocre or less on the field, continues to fail in recruiting and has players ripping the program in public. We have stands that are emptier than ever and interest in the program is no higher than it was 5 years ago. So who gives a crap about last years record? Edited November 26, 2016 by Zipgrad01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 31 minutes ago, LZIp said: Who would you like to replace Bowden? Someone that gives us the same "floor" with a comparable salary (which is right at the bottom of the MAC)? Because you know, the school has no money. How about providing some substantial discussion rather than just bitching all the time? Down seasons happen and are allowed to happen. I can understand getting the pitchforks out if it becomes a trend. Its not like the program just came off of its most successful season in D1 history. 4 out of Bowden's 5 seasons at Akron have ended with Akron having a losing record. I'd call that a trend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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