Duquesne Basketball Coach Keith Dambrot

[UAZip0510]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

Idk.... I doubt any OU fans are wishing Groce success here. It's not like he left us for a clearly better job a la Fleck to Minnesota, Groce to IL, etc., etc. He is still the competition..whether it be for current players (the ones he took), future players (we've already recruited against him multiple times), fans (seems like some people were more KD fans than Zips fans), and even on the court (if he ever has the cojones to schedule us).

 

Not saying you, but its interesting to me that there are people who are the biggest OSU haters on the site and claim that they are our competition, yet are seemingly rooting for KD at Duquesne. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. It is a bit agitating to see this board praising a coach who Akron wasn't good enough for. Its very easy to argue he took a step down while taking a slight pay raise. And yes, I certainly appreciated what he did he and wish he didn't leave before anyone tries to say otherwise.

 

In all due respect, these are poor comparisons.  Akron and Ohio are conference rivals.  Akron and Ohio State share the same state and compete for attention. (and paying fans).  The only thing Akron and Duquesne have in common is their coaching staff used to be ours.  Dylan Swingle is the only recruit I recall both going after and even that was just Groce keeping the offer open once he arrived.  Maybe you can share these other recruiting battles between the Zips and Dukes I must have missed?

 

I'm also not sure how it isn't a better job.  The Atlantic 10 has been getting multiple bids in the NCAA Tournament most years.  If we're being honest, we'd be doing cartwheels if Akron's basketball program was ever invited to that conference.  It's a definite move up. 

 

I also think some don't truly understand the motivation in going.  Money didn't hurt, but it was far from the primary reason he's with the Dukes now.  

 

If we ever play Duquesne, I hope we kick their asses.  If we're going after the same recruit, I hope Groce beats KD out for the kid every time.  Anytime else, I'm hoping KD does well.  He and his staff made Akron basketball what it is today, and I'll be forever grateful for that.

[LZIp]

2 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

In all due respect, these are poor comparisons.  Akron and Ohio are conference rivals.  Akron and Ohio State share the same state and compete for attention. (and paying fans).  The only thing Akron and Duquesne have in common is their coaching staff used to be ours.  Dylan Swingle is the only recruit I recall both going after and even that was just Groce keeping the offer open once he arrived.  Maybe you can share these other recruiting battles between the Zips and Dukes I must have missed?

 

I'm also not sure how it isn't a better job.  The Atlantic 10 has been getting multiple bids in the NCAA Tournament most years.  If we're being honest, we'd be doing cartwheels if Akron's basketball program was ever invited to that conference.  It's a definite move up. 

 

I also think some don't truly understand the motivation in going.  Money didn't hurt, but it was far from the primary reason he's with the Dukes now.  

 

If we ever play Duquesne, I hope we kick their asses.  If we're going after the same recruit, I hope Groce beats KD out for the kid every time.  Anytime else, I'm hoping KD does well.  He and his staff made Akron basketball what it is today, and I'll be forever grateful for that.

That's pretty fair...and why i'm willing to engage in back and forth with you.

 

Counterpoint: Duquesne and UA are more on the same level than Akron and OSU. They are both mid-majors. UA to Duquesne is a 1:43 trip per google maps. UA to OSU is 1:52. Same state or not, Duquesne is closer. Duquesne is also much closer than the majority of our conference foes. Yes the A-10 is better, but is Duquense better? Sort of like saying the B1G is better than the American, but is Rutgers really a better job than Wichita State? Are Duquesne and Akron not competing for attention now? Seems there are plenty of fans paying attention to Duquesne (even at the expense of Akron) that never would have gave them a thought in the past. I would call that competing for attention. As for another player, Torey Patton comes to mind right away. Yahell Hill, Maceo Austin, and Josh Corbin are 3 guys in the future just by looking on verbal commits for 2 minutes. 

[UAZippers]

38 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

 Dylan Swingle is the only recruit I recall both going after and even that was just Groce keeping the offer open once he arrived.  Maybe you can share these other recruiting battles between the Zips and Dukes I must have missed?

 

 

Torrey Patton chose UA over Duquesne. Jack Ballantyne and David Collins both had UA and Duquesne in their final schools before signing elsewhere.

[skip-zip]

41 minutes ago, LZIp said:

UA to Duquesne is a 1:43 trip per google maps. UA to OSU is 1:52. Same state or not, Duquesne is closer. Duquesne is also much closer than the majority of our conference foes.

 

Please tell me you were just shooting in the dark to form a response, and weren't serious about what you typed here when you hit the "submit" button?  Because, this logic is beyond ridiculous.   I think  you knew that too.   

 

So, we can all conclude that the Pitt Panthers are a bigger threat than Ohio State too?  Because of geographic proximity?

 

Besides student recruitment, athletes, fan interest, donors, TV attention, and athletic competitions themselves, we even compete against them in our OWN HOMETOWN NEWSPAPER for game info. and features.  

 

You can't even imply a 1-to-100 ratio between the impact of Duquesne vs. the impact of OSWho.  

Edited February 12, 2018 by skip-zip

[UAZip0510]

31 minutes ago, UAZippers said:

Torrey Patton chose UA over Duquesne. Jack Ballantyne and David Collins both had UA and Duquesne in their final schools before signing elsewhere.

 

All of the players you listed were originally recruited by Dambrot's staff while he was at Akron.  When he moved to Duquesne, most of, if not all of the current recruits were then offered by the Dukes.  This makes sense, as KD and staff obviously like these players and have invested time in scouting them and getting to know them. It also makes sense for Groce to keep the offers open in hopes that the Zips program or his style of play is more attractive.

 

With that said, I don't anticipate Akron and Duquesne going to war very often, primarily because I think Groce anf Dambrot recruit/attract different types of players.

 

[Let'sGoZips94]

2 hours ago, Dr Z said:

For the entire time KD spent at Akron, I don't remember any ZN member calling KD "classless." I don't know the incident that the fan is referring to, but I would be surprised if KD exhibited behavior that called for that. 

 

He apparently "went off" on their legendary announcer, and might have referred to him as an 80 year old, old man, or something like that. I never heard the audio, but that's what I gathered by what was posted on their board. 

 

2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

Those who are truly keeping score at home can see that Duquesne has already DOUBLED their win total from last year, and did so before the month of February even began, under some really difficult circumstances in terms of personnel availability.  

 

As I said earlier, if a few of you enjoy waiting  for a loss to occur so you can run to this thread to post something negative (see above), you're clearly displaying your agenda.   

 

Against something like the 340th "toughest" schedule in the country. I'm way past beating cupcakes for the easier W's. Duquesne is in the stage currently that we were back in '05-'07 or so, and these wins are great for them. But losing to a horrific Fordham squad (DU's board was saying they only have 8-9 players dressing at the moment, with their top players out with injuries or something, similar to us) isn't good especially at home, regardless of past success - or lack thereof. 

 

I don't understand why it's a bad thing to want a competitor to do poorly. I thought that was the "agenda" of every sports fan.  

Edited February 12, 2018 by Let'sGoZips94

[skip-zip]

Exhibit A

 

[UAZip0510]

Duquesne in the final four for Brandon Stone, a 7 footer out of North Carolina.  Stone's reasoning:

 

“Coach Dambrot is one of the best coaches out there as well. He had 13 consecutive seasons of 20+ wins at Akron and he’s going to make Duquesne a winning program too. Also, he’s had a staff that’s been with him a long time and that’s important. They’re also a very young team and have a lot of good players sitting out yet they’re still winning games.”

 

I know some grew tired of the 20 win season streak, but I really wish we could have kept it going.  It's not everything, but it's a nice pitch to recruits.

[zippy5]

It ain't over yet, not that it means anything.

[Let'sGoZips94]

Great. If he chooses Duquesne, he'll reach 80% of his potential by his senior season.

[UAZip0510]

2 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Great. If he chooses Duquesne, he'll reach 80% of his potential by his senior season.

 

Yawn

Edited February 14, 2018 by UAZip0510

[UAZip0510]

2 hours ago, zippy5 said:

It ain't over yet, not that it means anything.

 

We're at 11 wins with 5 regular season games left and potentially 4 MAC Tournament games.  One more loss will pretty much clinch the end of the streak.

[Let'sGoZips94]

Do you know what else is a great recruiting pitch?

 

"I took OU to the Sweet 16 in 2012 and came within a couple points of knocking off #1 seeded UNC to go to the Elite Right, 2 years after beating Georgetown in the first round."

[UAZip0510]

48 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Do you know what else is a great recruiting pitch?

 

"I took OU to the Sweet 16 in 2012 and came within a couple points of knocking off #1 seeded UNC to go to the Elite Right, 2 years after beating Georgetown in the first round."

 

It is, and it would have been nice to use both moving forward.

[Let'sGoZips94]

2 hours ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

It is, and it would have been nice to use both moving forward.

 

Easy explanation. 

 

"The previous coach left behind a dumpster fire roster, plus two of my three centers had season-ending injuries. It was so bad, I found a 6'5" kid from the Rec Center to play significant minutes at the PF/C position. It's been proven that 20+ wins can be done at Akron. But as I get my guys in here - and I'm targeting you, so you're one of my guys - we can win 20+ and win games in the NCAA tournament."

 

I'm not worried about losing the streak. I'm focused on building the culture and expectations necessary to take the next step as a program. 

[kreed5120]

I haven't seen this board so divided over a topic since the fire/keep Bowden debate of Winter/Spring 2017.

[skip-zip]

15 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Do you know what else is a great recruiting pitch?

 

"I took OU to the Sweet 16 in 2012 and came within a couple points of knocking off #1 seeded UNC to go to the Elite Right, 2 years after beating Georgetown in the first round."

 

From a recruiting standpoint, these kids were in Elementary School the last time he was remotely relevant.   I'd say it's just as valid to wonder what these kids might think if they look at the most recent 6 years for themselves and see how his teams have tanked ?

 

I know a couple of you will go to your graves continuing to discredit the 20+ win seasons, even when proof of players citing that fact are right in front of you.   

[Let'sGoZips94]

5 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

From a recruiting standpoint, these kids were in Elementary School the last time he was remotely relevant.   I'd say it's just as valid to wonder what these kids might think if they look at the most recent 6 years for themselves and see how his teams have tanked ?

 

I know a couple of you will go to your graves continuing to discredit the 20+ win seasons, even when proof of players citing that fact are right in front of you.   

 

If they look at his last 6 years they'll see he was at Illinois, which is gonna carry quite a bit of weight with it being a more recognizable name.

 

These kids can cite the streak all they want. When they receive an offer or commit, they're all gonna tweet the same thing - "blessed". Why wouldn't they all have similar answers when it comes to why they like Duquesne/KD? 

[skip-zip]

3 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

If they look at his last 6 years they'll see he was at Illinois, which is gonna carry quite a bit of weight with it being a more recognizable name.

 

So, coaching at a more "recognizable name school" that sucked during his tenure is an ASSET on the recruiting trail?

 

Unfortunately, his Illinois legacy might not be his only challenge.  What's happening right now isn't going to help either.  He's often been mentioned as a good recruiter, but you'd be in complete denial if you think he's not in a very, very challenging spot right now in terms of convincing kids to come to a MAC school that will be fighting its way up from the bottom after this season.  He's just quite a few years removed from success right now.  It would have helped if he could have at least shown that our program was moving forward as this season progressed.  I think he really needs to start winning basketball games again to regain credibility.  

 

So, just for reference, you're still locked in on your belief that a long string of 20+ win seasons is not valuable? 

[LZIp]

33 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

What's happening right now isn't going to help either.  He's often been mentioned as a good recruiter, but you'd be in complete denial if you think he's not in a very, very challenging spot right now in terms of convincing kids to come to a MAC school that will be fighting its way up from the bottom after this season. 

I must be in denial, because all of the players who are going to play a role in "fighting our way up from the bottom" are already here or signed. He doesn't need to convince anybody to come here right now who is going to make or break the future of the program. Skip, have you put down your season ticket deposit yet for the Dukes yet?!?!

[Let'sGoZips94]

39 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

So, coaching at a more "recognizable name school" that sucked during his tenure is an ASSET on the recruiting trail?

 

Unfortunately, his Illinois legacy might not be his only challenge.  What's happening right now isn't going to help either.  He's often been mentioned as a good recruiter, but you'd be in complete denial if you think he's not in a very, very challenging spot right now in terms of convincing kids to come to a MAC school that will be fighting its way up from the bottom after this season.  He's just quite a few years removed from success right now.  It would have helped if he could have at least shown that our program was moving forward as this season progressed.  I think he really needs to start winning basketball games again to regain credibility.  

 

So, just for reference, you're still locked in on your belief that a long string of 20+ win seasons is not valuable? 

 

- Yes, because look at this through the eyes of a 16-18 year old. How do you think they view a coach that was thought highly enough of to be hired by a Big Ten school? 

 

- What do you mean what's happening right now isn't going to help either? Anybody with half a brain can see what he's working with, but he's been-there-done-that at this level with OU, and that's all he has to use as an explanation. "I took OU from the bottom of the MAC to a winner in the NCAA tournament by my second year. By my fourth year, we were in the Sweet 16, a shot away from the Elite Eight. Akron has a foundation of consecutive 20+ win seasons which we can build on moving forward to take that next step, and you would be a vital asset in taking that next step."

 

- The long string of 20+ win seasons is somewhat valuable. It gives a foundation of success at Akron that Groce can use to build upon. But from the eyes of a 16-18 year old, winning in the MAC is what it is. Having a coach that has won in the NCAA Tournament and coach at a Big Ten school, that is the next level we need. Also, we have Rob Fulford. What an asset he is in recruiting and development. To be able to say one of our top assistant coaches founded Huntington Prep and was instrumental in the development of players like Andrew Wiggins and Gorgui Dieng, that's huge. And if there is any doubt that matters, look at the connection between Dambrot and LeBron. It's no secret that was a key in recruiting for him. 

[skip-zip]

46 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

- Yes, because look at this through the eyes of a 16-18 year old. How do you think they view a coach that was thought highly enough of to be hired by a Big Ten school? 

 

I briefly found a line in your post that I can agree with 100%

 

Especially the word THOUGHT - Past Tense

 

I'm not trying to argue with you about the coach.  I'm just continuing to point out that you are finding every other factor that you can muster to try to stick to your insistence that anything else must be more significant than a long string of consistent success.

 

By the way, comparing our former Head Coach's connection to the best basketball player on the planet to a Bench Coach who once worked with some other future NBA players is just absurd.  Do you really think that has remotely comparable value?  I wonder how many times the National Media will ask an Akron Assistant Coach to appear on ESPN, etc., to talk about it.      

[Let'sGoZips94]

36 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

I briefly found a line in your post that I can agree with 100%

 

Especially the word THOUGHT - Past Tense

 

I'm not trying to argue with you about the coach.  I'm just continuing to point out that you are finding every other factor that you can muster to try to stick to your insistence that anything else must be more significant than a long string of consistent success.

 

By the way, comparing our former Head Coach's connection to the best basketball player on the planet to a Bench Coach who once worked with some other future NBA players is just absurd.  Do you really think that has remotely comparable value?  I wonder how many times the National Media will ask an Akron Assistant Coach to appear on ESPN, etc., to talk about it.      

 

Success to a certain point. It's subjective. 

 

He didn't just work with those future NBA players; he founded the school that is (or was; haven't checked any high school rankings in recent years) a top prep school in the country. These kids come from high school. They pay attention to top high schools, and Huntington Prep is on there. And it's not absurd to compare. Dambrot had LeBron, but never developed anyone else who played in the NBA. Fulford developed Wiggins, Dieng, etc. 

[skip-zip]

You're really trying hard.  I applaud the effort.  

[UAZip0510]

8 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

If they look at his last 6 years they'll see he was at Illinois, which is gonna carry quite a bit of weight with it being a more recognizable name.

 

These kids can cite the streak all they want. When they receive an offer or commit, they're all gonna tweet the same thing - "blessed". Why wouldn't they all have similar answers when it comes to why they like Duquesne/KD? 

 

I literally just posted an example of a Duquesne recruit saying KD's Akron streak factored into their decision.  Dylan Swingle mentioned it as well.