Smaller, Leaner athletic program...

[footballzip]

5 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I realize that to a certain extent, but he led them to an 8-4 record and the D2 playoffs in his last year and won 20 games in his last three seasons.  He was also a top notch guy from what I understand.   34-28-1 in D1-AA.  That's damn near statue worthy in recent UA football history.

Coach D final year was 1985, 2nd in OVC with an 8-3 record. We we're in 1-AA playoffs not D-2. Ranked 10th in the nation at 1-AA 

that year.

Edited May 10, 2020 by footballzip

[clarkwgriswold]

47 minutes ago, footballzip said:

Coach D final year was 1985, 2nd in OVC with an 8-3 record. We we're in 1-AA playoffs not D-2. Ranked 10th in the nation at 1-AA 

that year.

That was a typo.  Thanks for the additional info on the national ranking.

[Spin]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:04 PM, Zip-Grad '13 said:

 

If Akron cuts Soccer over Football I'm done with the University.  I'll have my fond memories of the past and never step on the campus again.

If Akron cuts football over soccer I’m done with the university. And I’m not the only one. Even last year going 0-fer, I’d put football’s attendance average up against any other program in the school.

 

I’ll go a step further.  I would put attendance of the Acme Zip games (43,171 in 1971) against any home games in the FBS era. Winning football sells here in football country. It doesn’t matter what level it is. Cathedral Latin hosted Massillon at Municiple Stadium and drew 51,000 fans. Two High school teams drew more fans than the Bengals averaged. 
 

Put the program on a level they can compete, and watch attendance climb. We have high schools with more butts in the seats than many Zips games. And it’ll be a lot more fun. More fun than watching this crap, and listening to fans with delusions of grandeur complaining.
 

 

 

 

 

[Blue & Gold]

8 hours ago, Spin said:

Put the program on a level they can compete, and watch attendance climb. 

 

There's really no reason at all why we shouldn't be competitive in the MAC.  

Edited May 10, 2020 by Blue & Gold

[clarkwgriswold]

4 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

There's really no reason at all why we shouldn't be competitive in the MAC.  

 

Absolutely no reason, but they've constructed the roadmap to do it.  8 seasons of .500 or better football since going to D1--A/FBS in 1987.   

 

Absent a change in the culture at UA with respect to football, it won't matter whether they are in FBS, FCS, D2, Pop Warner or CYO.  Hopefully, with a commitment to the program, better decision making and community involvement, they can build something that's competitive in the "new world" MAC.  

Edited May 10, 2020 by clarkwgriswold

[GP1]

4 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

There's really no reason at all why we shouldn't be competitive in the MAC.  

Amen. Further, there is no reason we shouldn't be competitive against all G5 conferences.  It was just 5 years ago we had an 8 win season, which was just a few years after the Coach I disaster. We won a bowl game against a good Utah State team. We were in the conference championship. We have beaten P5 teams.

 

Now isn't time to panic, but action is necessary. We just need to keep in mind most G5 schools are in the same financial predicament we are. We need to work with them to chart a better path. We aren't living in the Gilded Age. All of us need to make smart decisions. It's been a while since we have done that collectively.

[Spin]

A couple years ago, I argued the other side. But since then the bottom has fallen out. 

 

Performance wise and money wise.  Yes it's possible for the Zips to rebuild, but with the budget cuts we know are coming? Accelereated by the Cononavirus? When you have these Zips fans calling for its end? 

 

I want football to win as much as anybody here. And a hell of a lot more than the "fans" who want football gone to protect the budget of their favorite programs. If it's a realist MAC with programs playing within their means, that's great. If it means playing Division 1 FCS with other regional rivals, I'm in.

 

TBH, I went to a lot more Canton Charge games this season than Cleveland Cavaliers. I had equal access to be paid the same to go to both, it wasn't because of cheap tickets. I get to a point where watching a team lose 3/4 of their games just isn't fun anymore. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Spin

[Zip-Grad '13]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:03 PM, Spin said:

Is that when we finally do something about Wuhan, China? The worlds bat eating disease factory?

 

Harvard Medical and John Hopkins have projected that intermittent social-distancing might be necessary until 2022.  

Everyone always focuses on the bats...but it's the damn Pangolins everyone needs to jump on!  Those damned devilish mammals that look like lizards are freaking weird and surprisingly cute at the same time!  Just look at him...totally planning world domination:



(For those who don't get the reference; SARS-CoV-2...aka Covid-19...has Bat AND Pangolin RNA.  So it appears that two separate wild coronaviruses had the opportunity to interact and have...a version of weird virus sex...aka recombination.  The running theory has been the virus made the jump from Pangolins to Humans, and the evidence is slowly mounting that this was the case.  And it would be some sort of divine justice because the Chinese hunt the cute little Pangolins for everything from "Ancient Chinese Medicine" to other "Luxury" products...much like the Ivory trade).  And sorry I couldn't help it...I'm a science teacher I had to post a picture of a Pangolin! : ) 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zip-Grad '13

[Zip-Grad '13]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:44 PM, Spin said:

...I’d put football’s attendance average up against any other program in the school...

 

I’ll go a step further.  I would put attendance of the Acme Zip games (43,171 in 1971) against any home games in the FBS era. Winning football sells here in football country. It doesn’t matter what level it is. Cathedral Latin hosted Massillon at Municiple Stadium and drew 51,000 fans. Two High school teams drew more fans than the Bengals averaged. 
 

Put the program on a level they can compete, and watch attendance climb. We have high schools with more butts in the seats than many Zips games. And it’ll be a lot more fun. More fun than watching this crap, and listening to fans with delusions of grandeur complaining.

 

Is that reported "attendance" or actual attendance?

Well its probably time for you to go then.  It's not 1971 anymore.  Yeah...And Akron WILL NEVER BE WINNING FOOTBALL.  Like you have better odds on the Mega-MIllions.  It's delusional to keep playing this game.  "If they can compete...watch attendance Climb!"  Sure...calling bullshit on that.  That's a big "if", meanwhile we're cutting entire colleges to barely stay afloat.  At some point the madness HAS TO STOP.

This quote right here says it all: "We have high schools with more butts in the seats than many Zips games".  Yeah, which is why you should cut the program.  PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT AKRON FOOTBALL or MAC FOOTBALL.  They didn't in 2012 they still don't now, and it will continue to get worse.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zip-Grad '13

[Zip-Grad '13]

8 hours ago, Spin said:

When you have these Zips fans calling for its end? 

BH, I went to a lot more Canton Charge games this season than Cleveland Cavaliers. I had equal access to be paid the same to go to both, it wasn't because of cheap tickets. I get to a point where watching a team lose 3/4 of their games just isn't fun anymore. 

It's not ideal, but at some point we have to be adults about it.  I'm a Zips fan.  But you're going to cut a National Championship team that has continued to compete for National Championships; and is far cheaper to maintain over a team that has surpassed over .500 once or twice in the last two decades?  That doesn't even qualify as stupid.  Let alone futile.

Your last point is on the mark.  I've always been a loyal Zips Football supporter, but even I stopped watching it.  First stopped attending games, then stopped watching it....hell not even looking at the score of the game last year.  I've been to more soccer games than Football games in the last 3 years.  I consider my Alumni Season Ticket package to all sports as a donation, so if I miss a game I'm not worried about it.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zip-Grad '13

[GP1]

1 hour ago, Zip-Grad '13 said:

Your last point is on the mark.  I've always been a loyal Zips Football supporter, but even I stopped watching it.  First stopped attending games, then stopped watching it....hell not even looking at the score of the game last year.

This is a really good point and central to what I have been concerned about as it relates to schools like ours for a few years. I would bet a lot of money your lack of interest didn't happen overnight. All of us have been given two scenarios by the morons who run our athletic departments. Fans can pick one or the other or both. Both are bad. The experiment has run it's course and the results are in and the current state of MAC football proves how disastrous things have become.

 

Scenario one:  Set up a schedule designed for early season failure and hope things turn around and you get to .500. Given the standings, this is a 50/50 bet. Heck, the highest number of wins by a MAC school last year was an uninspiring 8. The results drive fans away because of early season failure and little to hope for down the road positive possibilities. I don't blame a fan for losing focus.

 

Scenario two:  Enter into television contracts that make it almost impossible for some fans to attend games because of travel restrictions and those who are close enough can't go because of work restrictions, late season weather problems in the midwest or any number of reasonable excuses not to attend a college football game on a Tuesday/Wednesday night. Even the games at the good schools are not well attended on weeknight games so I'm not buying the argument anymore that winning will solve branding problems.

 

The only conclusion any sane person can make is the athletic departments of these schools could care less about the average fan, enjoy making the schools they work for look like a joke on national television and could care less about winning or losing football games. The erosion of fan support has happened slowly, but it is no accident.

 

There is a really good book called "The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*$k". The book isn't about indifference or not caring about things. It is about accepting that life is a series of problems you have to solve daily and then basically you die. Dropping down a division isn't going to solve the problem of horrifically bad decision making on the part of schools like ours. Some just think our problems will be solved if we drop down. Some problems may be solved, but others are created at that point and they could be far worse than what we are currently experiencing. The best thing we can do is accept our failures and chart a new course that will surely bring different problems, but in fact may make the average fan of schools like ours more positive about supporting sports teams. We really need better long term thinking and the current crop of athletic directors being produced in this country simply are not capable of solving our problems and may in fact be the central problem.

 

The best example I can give of problems never being solved is Warren Buffett.  Are all of his problems solved because he has a pile of cash?  Heck no. He has so many problems he has to have a team of executives he pays millions of dollars each to take some of the problem solving burden off of his shoulders so he can focus on 3-4 problems he can deal with.

[Spin]

3 hours ago, Zip-Grad '13 said:

This quote right here says it all: "We have high schools with more butts in the seats than many Zips games".  Yeah, which is why you should cut the program.  PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT AKRON FOOTBALL or MAC FOOTBALL.  
 

 

One week everyone wants football to play 2 or 3 "payday" slaughters to bankroll the athletic department. This week we should cut football altogether because of attendance (even though more people STILL go to football games than any other sport). 

 

I'm glad the forum doesn't make the decisions in the Athletic Dept. (or anywhere else).

[clarkwgriswold]

5 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

One week everyone wants football to play 2 or 3 "payday" slaughters to bankroll the athletic department. This week we should cut football altogether because of attendance (even though more people STILL go to football games than any other sport). 

 

I'm glad the forum doesn't make the decisions in the Athletic Dept. (or anywhere else).

 

If you looked at actual attendance, I think men's basketball may outdraw football. 

[Spin]

Ticket sales count when you're bean counting. This is a financial crisis, not a head count of visitors to campus.

 

 

[GP1]

7 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

If you looked at actual attendance, I think men's basketball may outdraw football. 

Facts aren't reasons.

 

I would like to see what MAC schools could do if they put a compelling, more enjoyable product on the field at a time and day of the week when it was reasonable for fans to attend.  It wasn't that long ago that they did and attendance was good.

[Spin]

4 hours ago, Zip-Grad '13 said:

It's not ideal, but at some point we have to be adults about it.  I'm a Zips fan.  But you're going to cut a National Championship team that has continued to compete for National Championships; and is far cheaper to maintain over a team that has surpassed over .500 once or twice in the last two decades? 

 

I'm a soccer fan too, from the days of the Cleveland Cobras of the old ASL, to the Cleveland Force, Canton Invaders, and Cleveland Crunch from indoor pinball, the Cleveland Caps (I know the team owner), the Columbus Crew and CLE SC. I'm not abdicating shutting down the soccer program.  I have no idea where you got that idea. 

 

This isn't us vs. them.

[Spin]

7 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Facts aren't reasons.

 

I would like to see what MAC schools could do if they put a compelling, more enjoyable product on the field at a time and day of the week when it was reasonable for fans to attend.  It wasn't that long ago that they did and attendance was good.

 

They gave up ticket sales chasing a few ESPN2 dollars. it's not worth it, especially when you're trying to build a brand.

[clarkwgriswold]

13 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Facts aren't reasons.

 

I would like to see what MAC schools could do if they put a compelling, more enjoyable product on the field at a time and day of the week when it was reasonable for fans to attend.  It wasn't that long ago that they did and attendance was good.

 

Not sure where I said it was a reason for anything.  I merely stated an observation.

[kreed5120]

23 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

One week everyone wants football to play 2 or 3 "payday" slaughters to bankroll the athletic department. This week we should cut football altogether because of attendance (even though more people STILL go to football games than any other sport). 

 

I'm glad the forum doesn't make the decisions in the Athletic Dept. (or anywhere else).

 

The AD has already started to begin to schedule 2 payday games per year. Look at the 2018, 2021, & 2022 schedules. The people saying that we should be playing 2 payday games per year aren't the same ones saying that we should disband the program.

 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

46 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

One week everyone wants football to play 2 or 3 "payday" slaughters to bankroll the athletic department. This week we should cut football altogether because of attendance (even though more people STILL go to football games than any other sport). 

 

I'm glad the forum doesn't make the decisions in the Athletic Dept. (or anywhere else).

 

The next Zips Nation thread where EVERYONE wants the same thing will be the first Zips Nation thread where EVERYONE wants the same thing.

[Spin]

10 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

The AD has already started to begin to schedule 2 payday games per year. Look at the 2018, 2021, & 2022 schedules. The people saying that we should be playing 2 payday games per year aren't the same ones saying that we should disband the program.

 

 

 

I'm starting to come around on playing those games. From all the comments here they do appear to make football at least a break-even sport. I said earlier I didn't like them because they can screw up our bowl eligibility, but that's not true since the bowl games are contracted by the conference, and are based on conference record, not overall record.

 

The program, properly run, can be competitive, we saw that in 2015 and 2017. Just a few years ago. You need the right people in place, and consistently put together winning seasons. Like I said in an earlier post, I've seen 50,000+ at a Zips home game before. This region will support a decent program. 

 

And help the entire athletic dept break even.

[zippy5]

29 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

 bowl games are contracted by the conference, and are based on conference record, not overall record.

 

 

That's not true

[Cykron]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:15 PM, GP1 said:

If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.  The rest is unknown.

 

I read the post below as a reply to the post above.  Very disturbing.  

 

On 5/9/2020 at 8:16 PM, GP1 said:

Not with Jim Dennison as AD.

 

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, Spin said:

 

I'm starting to come around on playing those games. From all the comments here they do appear to make football at least a break-even sport. I said earlier I didn't like them because they can screw up our bowl eligibility, but that's not true since the bowl games are contracted by the conference, and are based on conference record, not overall record.

 

The program, properly run, can be competitive, we saw that in 2015 and 2017. Just a few years ago. You need the right people in place, and consistently put together winning seasons. Like I said in an earlier post, I've seen 50,000+ at a Zips home game before. This region will support a decent program. 

 

And help the entire athletic dept break even.

 

The NCAA rule:

"An eligible team is defined as one that has won a number of games against Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) opponents that is equal to or greater than the number of its overall losses (e.g., a record of 6-6, or better). Ties or forfeited games do not count in determining won-lost record."

 

"If there are not enough teams that are eligible under those rules, the eligibility requirements change, but the minimum record for a team to become bowl eligible is set at 5-7. Teams with winning records always receive priority."

[DannyHoke]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:16 PM, GP1 said:

Not with Jim Dennison as AD.

 

OK, so you think that Faust was a great D1 program developer and was held back by Jim Dennison as the AD?

 

On what facts?

 

It's interesting that you come on and rail against people, but what makes you an expert on anything  regarding athletics and management of a D1 program?