One Door Closes, Another One Opens

[GP1]

I'm not surprised by the cancellation of the season. The people who run the league get 24 hours to decompress. Hopefully they will feel reenergized and on Monday get down to the business of figuring out what they want the league to be. 

 

The upcoming week is going to be informative. What will the other G5 conferences do?  Is the MAC the first dominoe to fall?  Does the cancellation of the MAC season take pressure off of the other G5 schools and make it easier for them to cancel? What are the phone calls between G5 commissioners?

 

Maybe in 10 years, we will all look back on the cancellation as our day of freedom from what has become complete insanity. 

[Spin]

IMO step one is pulling football out of the NCAA and form a new organization like the NAIA, but for bigger schools. 
 

That should drop the school’s Title IX requirements for football. How many women scholarships/sports would that cut? They could sign their own network deals, allow a post season tournament and/or bowl games...

 

We can dream...

[GP1]

42 minutes ago, Spin said:

IMO step one is pulling football out of the NCAA and form a new organization like the NAIA, but for bigger schools. 

The P5 schools should begin to abandon the NCAA. The timing is right. It will be the end of the NCAA as it is now because they are almost entirely funded by March Madness. 

 

A stripped down version of the NCAA could be a good governing body for what is left. It could facilitate competition and inter conference agreements without all of the petty nonsense like regulating whether or not players can have jobs. 

[DannyHoke]

1 hour ago, Spin said:

IMO step one is pulling football out of the NCAA and form a new organization like the NAIA, but for bigger schools. 
 

That should drop the school’s Title IX requirements for football. How many women scholarships/sports would that cut? They could sign their own network deals, allow a post season tournament and/or bowl games...

 

We can dream...

 

The NCAA has nothing to do with Title IX or Gender Equity.  That's the United States Government. Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 (20 U.S.C. . 1681 et seq.) prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs receiving Federal financial assistance. Athletics are considered an integral part of an institution's education program and are therefore covered by this law. The only way Akron gets relief from Title IX is if they give up 100% of their Federal financial assistance, aka all Financial Aid.

 

 

 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

3 hours ago, Spin said:

IMO step one is pulling football out of the NCAA and form a new organization like the NAIA, but for bigger schools. 
 

That should drop the school’s Title IX requirements for football. How many women scholarships/sports would that cut? They could sign their own network deals, allow a post season tournament and/or bowl games...

 

We can dream...

 

Title IX is one of the prices paid for receiving federal funding, not an NCAA requirement.  I don't think many schools want to forego that funding.   I'm with you for a separation and a new look at things.

[Lee Adams]

We see comments now about 'separation'. I am not real clear on what this 'separation' might look like. Are we talking about about the P5 schools,the real big boys, leaving the NCAA? What about the so called G5 schools like the MAC? What are they going to separate from? I doubt the P5 schools would really want or need those lower level DI schools hanging on to them if they wanted to go there own way. The bottom line for schools like Akron,Kant,OU etc. is to reduce the costs of running athletic programs,drastically. It obviously does not involve playing 'sacrifice' games year after year,after year. Been doing that forever and the financial problems are still there. Continuing to soak the general student body with 'fees' drives students away from the University. It costs too damn much to attend.

So what are some possibilities for permanent,realistic COST REDUCTION in these athletic departments? Lets see some concrete ideas. The time for gnashing of teeth is over.

[GP1]

37 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

We see comments now about 'separation'. I am not real clear on what this 'separation' might look like. Are we talking about about the P5 schools,the real big boys, leaving the NCAA? What about the so called G5 schools like the MAC? What are they going to separate from? I doubt the P5 schools would really want or need those lower level DI schools hanging on to them if they wanted to go there own way. The bottom line for schools like Akron,Kant,OU etc. is to reduce the costs of running athletic programs,drastically. It obviously does not involve playing 'sacrifice' games year after year,after year. Been doing that forever and the financial problems are still there. Continuing to soak the general student body with 'fees' drives students away from the University. It costs too damn much to attend.

So what are some possibilities for permanent,realistic COST REDUCTION in these athletic departments? Lets see some concrete ideas. The time for gnashing of teeth is over.

Good questions. G5 will need a governing body....  A much smaller governing body. We arent going to separate from anything. We are about to get dumped by the good looking girl and need to figure out a future.

 

I'm less concerned about cutting the expenses and more interested in increasing revenue for the overall university. This revenue needs to come in the form of increased enrollment. It can spread out student fees and reduce the cost of attendance for all students. A proposal I would have is a reduction in the endless drip of poorly released public information that scares students away from enrolling. Unfortunately, the new President seems to be embracing the failures of the past in this regard. 

[Spin]

3 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

We see comments now about 'separation'. I am not real clear on what this 'separation' might look like. Are we talking about about the P5 schools,the real big boys, leaving the NCAA? What about the so called G5 schools like the MAC? What are they going to separate from? I doubt the P5 schools would really want or need those lower level DI schools hanging on to them if they wanted to go there own way. The bottom line for schools like Akron,Kant,OU etc. is to reduce the costs of running athletic programs,drastically. It obviously does not involve playing 'sacrifice' games year after year,after year. Been doing that forever and the financial problems are still there. Continuing to soak the general student body with 'fees' drives students away from the University. It costs too damn much to attend.

So what are some possibilities for permanent,realistic COST REDUCTION in these athletic departments? Lets see some concrete ideas. The time for gnashing of teeth is over.

 

I'd be interested where you get your information from, because everything I have heard and read says that the P5 "sacrafice" games and the ESPN Tuesday/Thursday night games cover not only the football program, but a big chunk of the athletic dept. budget. 

 

So if you want to drop those games, drop a division, then you're looking at loss of scholarships for most if not all athletes. Which would be really ignorant IMO because we have a tournament quality mens D1 basketball program and a championship winning D1 men's soccer program. To name two. You're castrating yourself, unless you really want to play Bluffton and Marietta. Akron did that in the 1800's.

 

The whole university is hemorrhaging money, athletics is just one part. An very visible part, and making it an easy target. The 0'fer season doesn't help, and makes everyone forget the bowl games we went to the last few years (that paid seven figures). Football critics point to the attendance at the monsoon game last year, conveniently forgetting 90% of the sporting events wish they had that many paying fans...

 

If you want to make football your target, you need to understand how other the sport's bread is buttered...

 

Student fees? Yes they are a crime. I was a non-traditional student, so paid for parking. And I paid for the busses I never used. I never used the bowling alley, the theater, the pool hall, the indoor basketball courts, the climbing wall, the gym, the activities, I could go on all day. All of those fees I paid for stuff I never used, so I don't want to hear about athletics fees. That was the one fee I actually was able to take advantage of.

 

The answer doesn't start with raping or eliminating the football program. It's actually the one program that brings in more than it spends.

[DannyHoke]

59 minutes ago, Spin said:

The answer doesn't start with raping or eliminating the football program. It's actually the one program that brings in more than it spends.

 

Show us the documentation on Akron Football actually being the one program that brings in more than it spends?  

 

Akron Football, even at 14-0, will never ever play for a national championship.  The program is irrelevant and no one attends games, even with the dumping of copious amounts of free tickets into the area. Students do not attend with free tickets.  Less than 1000 season tickets sold per season over the last 4 years.

 

But hey, people really care about Akron Football.  What a fraud.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by DannyHoke

[Zipmeister]

5 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

We see comments now about 'separation'. I am not real clear on what this 'separation' might look like. Are we talking about about the P5 schools,the real big boys, leaving the NCAA? What about the so called G5 schools like the MAC? What are they going to separate from? I doubt the P5 schools would really want or need those lower level DI schools hanging on to them if they wanted to go there own way. The bottom line for schools like Akron,Kant,OU etc. is to reduce the costs of running athletic programs,drastically. It obviously does not involve playing 'sacrifice' games year after year,after year. Been doing that forever and the financial problems are still there. Continuing to soak the general student body with 'fees' drives students away from the University. It costs too damn much to attend.

So what are some possibilities for permanent,realistic COST REDUCTION in these athletic departments? Lets see some concrete ideas. The time for gnashing of teeth is over.

 

I think more efficient use of athletic tape is critical to cost reduction. The athletic department uses huge amounts of tape and discards it after only one use.even though it still has plenty of stickiness.

Careful removal of the tape could enable it  to be reused numerous times saving thousands of dollars each year.

[DannyHoke]

27 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

 

I think more efficient use of athletic tape is critical to cost reduction. The athletic department uses huge amounts of tape and discards it after only one use.even though it still has plenty of stickiness.

Careful removal of the tape could enable it  to be reused numerous times saving thousands of dollars each year.

 

Are you suggesting the fiscal fitness of Akron Athletics can be tipped in the positive by using second hand athletic tape on ankles and other medical applications?  

 

Some other ideas could be...

 

Installing pay per use toilets at Infocision Stadium & the JAR.  Want to take a dump, that's $0.50 cents please.

 

Washing practice clothing every other day.... MERSA is a hoax. We save on water, soap and electricity.  Or, better yet, take your gear home and wash it yourself.

 

Eliminate consumption of Gatorade and go with plain water.  No fancy flavors, or electrolytes, just good old H2O.

 

Reduce the number of helmets and alternate uniforms to one helmet, one pant, and two jerseys - home and away. Only one pair of cleats per year, and no luxuries like travel warmups or t-shirts are given for free.  Bring your own undergarments.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by DannyHoke

[Spin]

29 minutes ago, DannyHoke said:

 

Show us the documentation on Akron Football actually being the one program that brings in more than it spends?  

 

It was on several news media outlets when Nebraska cancelled our payday game against them. 

 

I've seen several anti-football articles that complain about the costs of football, but they always forget to include the revenue from the FBS games, the week night games, and the bowl games. 

 

Quote

Akron Football, even at 14-0, will never ever play for a national championship.

 

If that's the criteria for having a football program, there would only be 5 or 6 college football programs left.

Quote

 

The program is irrelevant and no one attends games, even with the dumping of copious amounts of free tickets into the area. Students do not attend with free tickets.  Less than 1000 season tickets sold per season over the last 4 years.

 

But hey, people really care about Akron Football.  What a fraud.

 

 

Nobody has ever claimed the university has ever had a noticeable marketing campaign, especially when it comes to sports. 

 

Despite that, shall we compare football ticket sales to the other sports. Mens basketball? Mens soccer? Or all the other programs that don't even charge for admission? I'll wait.

[DannyHoke]

Where are the buy games this year?  Who says they come back?  The MAC Television Deal is not separated out by sport, so ZIPS FOOTBALL is not earning anything there, the SCHOOL earns something as part of the MAC membership.

 

Per those articles on Football Spending.. 

 

2015

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/07/20/faculty-members-urge-u-akron-decrease-football-spending

 

2018

https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-business/university-akron-tries-tackle-sports-dilemma

 

2019

https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2019/03/how-university-of-akron-raised-and-spent-money-on-sports-in-2017-2018.html

 

Revenue: $34,601,000

Football Budget: $7,500,000

Ticket revenue: $1,381,580 (All sports)

Contributions: $1,757,161 (All sports)

NCAA: $1,289,476 ($0 from football as it is not NCAA sponsored at FBS level)

Conference: $1,827,299 (All sports)

Subsidy from non-athletic department sources: $24,289,339

Expenses: $34,873,226

Scholarships: $6,976,674 was spent on 213.05 scholarships split among 362 student-athletes.

 

Even if you give football credit for all ticket sales, all contributions and all conference distribution (includes TV deal with ESPN) that's only $5,000,000 bucks and leaves a gap of $2.5m to break even.

 

The only person that says football breaks even at Akron is the MAC Commish.  The President and AD will never state that as it's simply not accurate.

 

"Akron's athletic department budget of $33.1 million in 2017-18 included operating expenses of $11,174,159 and a total payroll of $10,181,747. The figures were a respective $1,230,159 and $173,747 above the original projections. But the Zips' athletic revenues — a theme that is all too common throughout NCAA Division I — account for only a quarter of the department's costs. That leaves the university to pick up the tab for the rest, via student fees and other institutional support."

 

2020

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/05/01/budget-cuts-render-university-of-akrons-football-program-increasingly-indefensible

 

There are 65 schools that are realistically eligible for the College Football Playoff - the power 5 schools plus Notre Dame. The GROUP OF 5 will never even have a chance to be a part of the Playoff.  If a power 5 school goes 13-0 they will be in the CFP, guaranteed.

 

One could easily extend the argument that spending $300K on a head men's soccer coach is insanity.  Add in his state benefits at 42% of that figure and it's easily 10x the season ticket revenue for men's soccer. One could easily make the argument that Akron should aspire to be more like Creighton or Wichita State, basketball at the forefront and no football.

 

The very argument being made by Gary Miller & Larry Williams about keeping athletics at the D1 is the marketing value provided to the campus and additions to the campus culture.  Students would disagree if polled about their over $1,000 per year in fees to provide the playing opportunities for other students.  Athletics is an extracurricular activity and not a mandated part of the academic mission of the University.

Edited August 9, 2020 by DannyHoke

[Spin]

Akron can't be the only G5 school in the same situation. It seems like it would be systemic throughout the bottom half of Division I football. Maybe not as dire, not everyone has our marketing "effort", spending spree, and recent W/L records. But the rest of the 

 

Outside (how many?) universities, how many other programs are in dire straits? Is there a need for systemic changes? Does a football team really NEED 63 scholarships? 

 

Is it worth maintaining FBS football so men's hoops and men's soccer can be eligible for an auto bid in the tourneys? 

[GP1]

10 hours ago, Spin said:

It seems like it would be systemic throughout the bottom half of Division I football. Maybe not as dire, not everyone has our marketing "effort", spending spree, and recent W/L records.

 

Outside (how many?) universities, how many other programs are in dire straits? Is there a need for systemic changes? Does a football team really NEED 63 scholarships? 

Is it systemic?  No, that's not what the word "systemic" means. If it was systemic, ALL universities would be experiencing it. It is a "problem" for the bottom half.

 

There is a need for systemic change. What system though?  The Athletic Department or the overall university or G5 universities or just G5 athletic departments? The systemic issues at G5 schools have created problems for G5 athletic departments. G5 schools are having trouble coping with the financial pinches in recent years and are making already financially strapped athletic departments the target of poor administrative decisions including crippling cuts to athletic departments and student fees. 

 

Systemically, G5 universities are in a cycle of disastrous public relations.  When is the last time you went six months without a report of the financial problems at UofA or similar schools. There is no reason to get upset with the media about this as they are public schools for the most part and taxpayers deserve to know what is going on at their public institutions. Are these schools making a concerted effort to highlight what they are doing positively within their communities?  I doubt it. I don't see it and I live close to two decently sized public universities. The public is left with a feeling these schools are failing at every level and since they are funded by the public the "outrage response" is to demand cuts. Five years of cutting did not make General Electric a great company. Today, it is a shell of the company it was five years ago when the Six Sigma Black Belts took an hatchet to everything in sight (actually, it was much more than five years ago). During that period, you almost never heard good news about the company and investors lost confidence. The same is happening with G5 schools.  How about the clowns who run them and work at them (yes, I'm talking to the professors who endlessly call for cuts to athletics) highlight some of the great things the kids are doing throughout the school to offset the negative financial press? What if these positive stories gave confidence to potential students and the enrollment/revenue increased?  Isn't that a solution as well?

 

G5 schools are not going to cut their way to success or a new future. That is a downward cycle that will cause the entire system to fail. If you want systemic failure, this is what it will look like. It's time to turn these schools into the beacons of light they are and not the black holes they appear to be. College athletics can be part of that endeavor.  

Edited August 10, 2020 by GP1

[ZippyRulz]

12 hours ago, Spin said:

Akron can't be the only G5 school in the same situation. It seems like it would be systemic throughout the bottom half of Division I football. Maybe not as dire, not everyone has our marketing "effort", spending spree, and recent W/L records. But the rest of the 

 

Outside (how many?) universities, how many other programs are in dire straits? Is there a need for systemic changes? Does a football team really NEED 63 scholarships? 

 

Is it worth maintaining FBS football so men's hoops and men's soccer can be eligible for an auto bid in the tourneys? 

 

Pretty much all of the MAC-CUSA-SB schools are in the same situation with big student fee subsidies but as far as I know we are the only one with a task force pending and our severity of budget and faculty cuts. The bubble has been expanding for a while now and we may be the ones to burst it. Everyone is clinging to their conference status quo, waiting and watching for some type of reset. I think if a few schools start dropping out of G5 by choice or necessity it will trigger some changes at the conference level.

 

P.S. -  some or most of the FCS conferences (e.g. Ivy League) have auto bids to the hoops and soccer tourneys, no?

 

P.P.S. - Even though we know it wouldn't save much if any money returning to FCS, I think it would placate the faculty union / senate ... right now they just want to see a downgrade occur.

 

[LZIp]

18 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Pretty much all of the MAC-CUSA-SB schools are in the same situation with big student fee subsidies but as far as I know we are the only one with a task force pending and our severity of budget and faculty cuts. The bubble has been expanding for a while now and we may be the ones to burst it. Everyone is clinging to their conference status quo, waiting and watching for some type of reset. I think if a few schools start dropping out of G5 by choice or necessity it will trigger some changes at the conference level.

 

P.S. -  some or most of the FCS conferences (e.g. Ivy League) have auto bids to the hoops and soccer tourneys, no?

 

P.P.S. - Even though we know it wouldn't save much if any money returning to FCS, I think it would placate the faculty union / senate ... right now they just want to see a downgrade occur.

 

IIRC, we just cut 1/4 of our athletics budget, including 3 sports permanently. We did downgrade!

[Captain Kangaroo]

22 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

P.P.S. - Even though we know it wouldn't save much if any money returning to FCS, I think it would placate the faculty union / senate ... right now they just want to see a downgrade occur.

Hopefully we are not making decisions regarding Zips Athletics to placate the faculty union / senate.

[DannyHoke]

46 minutes ago, LZIp said:

IIRC, we just cut 1/4 of our athletics budget, including 3 sports permanently. We did downgrade!

 

Cutting the 3 sports was a topical cut at best, as all were low scholarship sports and low head count. Several full time positions were cut as well, which is where more savings took place.

 

 

[DannyHoke]

MAC Football By The Numbers:

— The average MAC school spends $8.7 million on football.

— 39 Power 5 programs were slated to pay $65 million for 49 guarantee games, including 18 against the 12 MAC programs.

— $850,000 to each MAC school from ESPN, or around 10% of the overall football budget

 

[Spin]

1 hour ago, DannyHoke said:

MAC Football By The Numbers:

— $850,000 to each MAC school from ESPN, or around 10% of the overall football budget

 

So it’s hardly worth the attendance hit, playing on cold Tuesday nights.

 

Exposure? I don’t think that changes any non-MAC fans minds...

[ZippyRulz]

4 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Hopefully we are not making decisions regarding Zips Athletics to placate the faculty union / senate.

 

I'm sure in one of the myriad parallel universes it's not a factor ?

[Spin]

Joe Thomas: Not playing fall sports does not remove the Coronavirus from college athletes lives

 

It would give them more down time, time to be around others who are not in a testing regiment.

 

Two Indians pitchers were suspended for partying. Shoulda used a NBA/NHL/MLS bubble...

Edited August 11, 2020 by Spin

[DannyHoke]

5 hours ago, Spin said:

So it’s hardly worth the attendance hit, playing on cold Tuesday nights.

 

Exposure? I don’t think that changes any non-MAC fans minds...

 

MACtion is the death nail of MAC football.  It's killed off student and fan interest.  We were much better off in 2001 or 2005 than we are now with a following, and that was playing in the Rubber Bowl 8 miles off campus.  

[Lee Adams]

On 8/9/2020 at 3:50 PM, Spin said:

 

I'd be interested where you get your information from, because everything I have heard and read says that the P5 "sacrafice" games and the ESPN Tuesday/Thursday night games cover not only the football program, but a big chunk of the athletic dept. budget. 

 

So if you want to drop those games, drop a division, then you're looking at loss of scholarships for most if not all athletes. Which would be really ignorant IMO because we have a tournament quality mens D1 basketball program and a championship winning D1 men's soccer program. To name two. You're castrating yourself, unless you really want to play Bluffton and Marietta. Akron did that in the 1800's.

 

The whole university is hemorrhaging money, athletics is just one part. An very visible part, and making it an easy target. The 0'fer season doesn't help, and makes everyone forget the bowl games we went to the last few years (that paid seven figures). Football critics point to the attendance at the monsoon game last year, conveniently forgetting 90% of the sporting events wish they had that many paying fans...

 

If you want to make football your target, you need to understand how other the sport's bread is buttered...

 

Student fees? Yes they are a crime. I was a non-traditional student, so paid for parking. And I paid for the busses I never used. I never used the bowling alley, the theater, the pool hall, the indoor basketball courts, the climbing wall, the gym, the activities, I could go on all day. All of those fees I paid for stuff I never used, so I don't want to hear about athletics fees. That was the one fee I actually was able to take advantage of.

 

The answer doesn't start with raping or eliminating the football program. It's actually the one program that brings in more than it spends.

Never said anything about wanting to 'eliminate' football. Have said that over and over. And yes, I was a commuter back in the early 1970's. And yes I went to football and B.ball games on my student ID.  Not because I was paying the fees,but because I loved watching football and basketball. I paid my own parking fees too. And yes the entire University is in financial trouble. But no, the target is not just the athletic department. The administration is making drastic 'cuts' on the academic side as we write. How will that affect the viability of the University in the future. Stay tuned.

If the money from the 'sacrifice' games in football or basketball games for that matter put the ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT on the positive side of the financial ledger we would have been there long ago. We are not there. Why? Someone please tell me.