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If this truly is his strength, then I also wonder how that will be affected after he took such a step backwards. Now he has a bad year on top of that. I guess the challenge for him is to project that idea to HS players that he can do some magical things again, even though he continues to distance himself further and further from the time where he accomplished those kinds of things. It makes me think of Stan Heath. I pray we're not watching someone who's going to follow that path.

Unfortunately there weren't 2 other meetings that should have happened in Cleveland, because the other two years that Groce was at OU, Akron won the MAC Tournament Title, and OU was long gone by the Quarterfinals.

I think the proof should be in the history and results. For 12 years, everyone here anguished over whether we could repeat success the following year by losing players A, B, and C, etc., and every year we found a way to get right back to where we were during the course of the season. Maybe 2015 would be your best example. Chauncey, Walsh, and Zeke had all graduated, and Harney, Treadwell and Abreu had all "exited" the team over a period of roughly a little more than a year. Our PG was a freshman, and he tore his ACL. Another freshman stepped in, and that guy along with a hobbled Forsythe (who could only muster a few minutes per game) took us all the way to the MAC Semifinal. That team was so decimated by the end of the season that we decided not to take a postseason bid, if you recall. Like him or not, Keith knew how to put the pieces together to win MAC basketball games, in all kinds of different circumstances. And he proved that, over, and over and over again.

I hear that. I'm just disappointed that progress has not been made, and it makes me sick to think that we might essentially be re-starting again next year from an even lower point than we started this year.

I completely agree with you. Losing Sayles and Poke would not have converted the beatings we took the last 3 games into wins. I lay most of the blame on the selfishness that comes with losing. Maybe the Coach has made mistakes too. We all tend to judge coaching within a season in terms of how a team improves during the season. And while you focus on this notion of supreme athleticism, I'd suggest that maybe you focus a little more on the fact that we just don't have enough good basketball players to win a lot more games than we've won this year. My opinion or your opinion of how "athletic" these guys are really doesn't mean anything if they aren't good enough basketball players. I don't think they will lose all of the rest of their games. But, the wheels are definitely off.

They think they are just reaching out to serve local people who care about what's going in in Columbus and Cleveland. I see it as a desperate,short-term strategy that will ultimately backfire.

Sure. That's why all of us more mature adults stay in the same job all of our lives, just like our parents. And all of us stay married to the same person all of our lives too, just like our parents. I'm not going to criticize any of these guys for doing the same thing that all of the rest of us are doing in today's world to improve our lives.

I don't like telling anyone else how to coach, but I'll say that it's very difficult to get young guys to respond to what he's doing. It's one thing if they can see that it's leading to wins. It's another when you're getting your a$$es handed to you for the 3rd straight game.

Wow. That's not good. But I get what you're saying.

I agree. That's why I keep talking about him as someone that can help us as soon as he gets on the floor. I think I had a lot of both good and bad scenarios in that post. Nobody can be sure about where this is going. But right now, it appears to be moving backwards rather than forward. I just hope we don't end up trying to rebuild this thing from the back of the pack by season's end.

My comments had nothing to do with how Coach is handling Utomi, or what he might do with him in the future. I was referencing how Daniel, himself, might be assessing his own current situation in the wake of how things have gone this year. Those who wish to base their opinions on Coach Speak can do so at their own risk.

I've talked about this guy before. In my opinion, he's probably the only guy with the tools to make immediate impact next year. But, is he just basically a wash because we lose Malcolm from the group of Guards? I think the surprise you have to hope for if you want improvement next year rests with Riak. We'll have a guy in the paint who has great size, and can move. However, if his last playing stint is any indication, he's not a scorer. But, I hope that he can at least immediately give us some much-needed rebounding help. Lets also hope this whole thing doesn't fall apart yet this year to the point where any good players decide to leave. I am a little concerned that the change in the situation this year could make someone like Daniel have 2nd thoughts that he decided to stay, especially since he still has 2 years to play somewhere else. I'm sure some people will be correct in assuming that future recruiting might also be hampered by the way this season is going. But, I think we probably also will be helped by the fact that this staff has had a year to start building relationships with high school kids, and won't be in a situation again where we have to fill roster spots with whoever is available.

I'm just wondering why you admitted this. But claimed to know this.

This is probably all that needs to be said. Circumstances are much different. There's a big difference between coming into a game to play a brief role and fire up a few 3-balls, and being forced to carry a big, heavy weight of an entire team on your back.

So did Chris Kelly. Same year as Holmes. And Wayne Wade a few years later.

I cringed when I saw this line. Looking at the standings, this game probably means more than to us than just staying out of last place right now. We may just end up needing this victory to avoid finishing in last place for the season. OU's is really bad, but they can still probably win at any time on their home floor. A game against a bad team like this will probably be a good indicator of whether these guys have thrown in the towel this year.

Tron Jenkins from Barberton - Early 90's Doug Schutz from Mentor - Mid 80's I'm a little surprised, if your history with Zips Basketball goes back that far. Both were pretty key players for their teams. Schutz was on the team that went to the NCAA tourney in 1986. I remember him going to the locker room during a game to get stitches on a cut above his eye, and returning to the game. He was a "scrapper".

Would you have preferred: Scrappy? Hard Nosed? Ultra-Competitive? Intestinal Fortitude?

Blue Collar guys who immediately come to mind (other than the guys you mention) over the last few decades: Linhart Dials Treadwell Jenkins Schutz

Lets hope that's what happens. Or, you'll be saying this all over again next February.

Players can start checking out. Especially those who've been on this roster when we won all the time. Visibly observing "Bad attitudes" seem like the obvious sign. But that's a natural reaction to losing. I'd contend that the lack of ball movement is much more telling. So, those 4 assists should be a huge red flag that there's a dire problem with cohesiveness. It's tough on the coach too. You can't correct the problem by yelling more, unless you know your players well. And oftentimes, different guys are going to respond to that in different ways. This kind of loss at home can be a tipping point. Lets hope that's not the case.

Since the game was nothing to talk about, we can talk about this. If you don't count the shirts that were given out at the gate, I'd probably say that less than 4.5 were informed enough to participate on their own.

The Dukes snap a string of 8 years of consecutive road losses at George Washington last night. http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/01/31/duquesne-george-washington-75-73-recap/

I agree with you completely. It's not unreasonable at all. You might also want to be reminded that Keith and his staff performed some masterpieces in terms of what they were able to mold out of some of the talent we had. But even more significantly, the freshmen who came through this program over those 12 years had plenty of contributors playing in front of them, and mostly played very secondary roles in terms of who was going to going to take the scoring opportunities. That situation does not exist now. The room for someone to step forward is wide open. And my point was that Miami clearly has some freshmen who are already "there", and have taken advantage of that opportunity to play a big role.

Absolutely. I've been posting about this for quite some time. Obviously, our coaches think that we have to use him in other capacities. But, I share in your observation that it could be hurting his scoring numbers.