Dave in Green Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSU drew 8,490 fans at home to see them play Butler. Their next highest home game attendance was 4,711 for the South Florida game. They had 3 other home games with attendance of more than 4,000, 2 home games between 3,000-4,000, and 8 home games with attendance under 3,000. That's not so hot for the best mid-major basketball team in Ohio with a star player (Cole) located in the heart of the second most populated urban area in the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSU drew 8,490 fans at home to see them play Butler. Their next highest home game attendance was 4,711 for the South Florida game. They had 3 other home games with attendance of more than 4,000, 2 home games between 3,000-4,000, and 8 home games with attendance under 3,000. That's not so hot for the best mid-major basketball team in Ohio with a star player (Cole) located in the heart of the second most populated urban area in the state. Compare it to their last few years and tell me the trend. Compare ours to the past few years, and tell me the trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootforRoo44 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSU drew 8,490 fans at home to see them play Butler. Their next highest home game attendance was 4,711 for the South Florida game. They had 3 other home games with attendance of more than 4,000, 2 home games between 3,000-4,000, and 8 home games with attendance under 3,000. That's not so hot for the best mid-major basketball team in Ohio with a star player (Cole) located in the heart of the second most populated urban area in the state. Compare it to their last few years and tell me the trend. Compare ours to the past few years, and tell me the trend. Yeah it's sad what UA basketball has become. It's funny because when my girlfriend transferred to Akron from Ohio U back in 2008 i told her "yeah Akron has great support for the team, the place is usually pretty packed for games". And of course 2007-2008 was the first season without Travis or Joyce and it seems since they left we've had less and less fans show up. She still gives me a hard time about that, especially when the place is empty. I have to get others to tell her that i am telling the truth and it used to be a legit atmosphere to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I agree. I absolutely LOVE Saturday night games...BW-3's for 2-hours beforehand, and then the game. Sitting on those wooden bleachers for 2 hours watching mediocre basketball is really a tough sell to the wife on a Saturday night. My wife and I always talk about what we would do if we were still living in Akron. We lived in the city around Stan Hewitt. We talked about it Saturday in fact. Going to BW3, the game and Crave for a snack after the game (because the "food" at the JAR is terrible) was the answer. I know we joke about the benches, but it is no laughing matter. The benches were the #1 reason we did not attend many games the last couple of years we lived there. Even if it means fewer potential spectators, they need to eliminate the benches and put in seats....with rows of steps leading a fan up to their row. I also like order so every fan could be assigned a seat. It cannot be that expensive. I injured my lower back in college. Nothing serious, just a compressed disk. But it can be annoying and quite painful at times. For me, the JAR's wooden bleachers are a KILLER! After 15-20 minutes of sitting on those things I have to stand up very slowly and deliberately. It honestly takes me about 30 seconds before I can stand up perfectly straight. I lift weights about 4 times a week, jog, use an eliptical, play full-court basketball once-a-week, bike & swim - so it's not like I'm fat & out of shape. But sitting on the JAR's bleachers is BRUTAL!!! Those things make me feel twice my age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 CSU drew 8,490 fans at home to see them play Butler. Their next highest home game attendance was 4,711 for the South Florida game. They had 3 other home games with attendance of more than 4,000, 2 home games between 3,000-4,000, and 8 home games with attendance under 3,000. That's not so hot for the best mid-major basketball team in Ohio with a star player (Cole) located in the heart of the second most populated urban area in the state. Compare it to their last few years and tell me the trend. Compare ours to the past few years, and tell me the trend. My main point was that CSU has a big advantage over UA by being in a higher population metro area. Looking at attendance stats over the past 7 seasons, CSU has been up and down while UA was pretty steady at one level, dropped off about 500 spectators 3 seasons ago, and has remained pretty steady since. Zips have consistently outdrawn CSU until this season. Here's the 7-season home attendance averages (current season first and working back), CSU in the first column, UA in the second, and the 3rd column being the Zips +/- attendance compared with CSU: 3,277 / 2,871 = - 406 2,278 / 2,824 = +546 2,245 / 2,984 = +739 3,307 / 3,454 = +147 2,619 / 3,593 = +974 2,013 / 3,470 = +1,457 2,418 / 3,369 = +951 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoZips88 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I agree. I absolutely LOVE Saturday night games...BW-3's for 2-hours beforehand, and then the game. Sitting on those wooden bleachers for 2 hours watching mediocre basketball is really a tough sell to the wife on a Saturday night. My wife and I always talk about what we would do if we were still living in Akron. We lived in the city around Stan Hewitt. We talked about it Saturday in fact. Going to BW3, the game and Crave for a snack after the game (because the "food" at the JAR is terrible) was the answer. I know we joke about the benches, but it is no laughing matter. The benches were the #1 reason we did not attend many games the last couple of years we lived there. Even if it means fewer potential spectators, they need to eliminate the benches and put in seats....with rows of steps leading a fan up to their row. I also like order so every fan could be assigned a seat. It cannot be that expensive. I noticed AD Tom Wistrcil talking to Cant's AD at the Can't game in early January. It appeared to me that Wistrcil was describing how seating could be changed in the JAR. It included a lot of pointing here and there and hand motions that seemed to paint a picture of seats sloping from the floor all of the way up through the bleachers. I wonder if a decision has been made internally to renovate the JAR? Anyone know? I know many who won't attend because of the bleacher seating. At halftime of a future game, we ought to 'honor' the politicians who presided over and OK'd the 'multi-purpose' design of the JAR. Idiots ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 At halftime of a future game, we ought to 'honor' the politicians who presided over and OK'd the 'multi-purpose' design of the JAR. Idiots ... His name is on the natatorium across the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Here's the 7-season home attendance averages (current season first and working back), CSU in the first column, UA in the second, and the 3rd column being the Zips +/- attendance compared with CSU: 2010-11: 3,277 / 2,871 = - 406 2009-10: 2,278 / 2,824 = +546 2008-9: 2,245 / 2,984 = +739 I included the past 3 seasons. Going 7 seasons deep, pre-Gary Waters at CSU, and circa Mike Thomas @ UA isn't too relevant in 2011. The trend certainly shows CSU is dramatically increasing, while UA has flat-lined. Keep in mind CSU had bought a couple "marquee" games over the past few seasons (preceeding 2010-11) that made their attendance look better than it really was...they'd probably be below 2k without those games. See this informative column from the PD printed a couple weeks ago. Look at the creative stuff the CSU AD is trying in order to get people to pay attention to the Vikings. Our AD? He apparently spends his day scrounging ZipsNation for his Marketing ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 CSU has had a big jump in home attendance between last season and this season, coinciding with a big improvement in team performance. However, a one-season jump does not represent a longterm statistical trend. For example, CSU had a bigger loss in attendance between the 2007-08 and 2008-09 seasons than their increase this season. The longterm trend is that CSU's attendance is more volatile from season to season than UA's, and CSU's win-loss record has also been more volatile than UA's. That supports the statement in the informative PD column that increasing attendance at basketball games "starts with winning." I agree with that, and I also agree that creative marketing can enhance attendance. The PD column also shows how serious CSU is about marketing its basketball program. I haven't seen anything like that from UA. The question of what percentage of attendance increase comes from winning and what percentage from good marketing is not addressed, and is hard to quantify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 However, a one-season jump does not represent a longterm statistical trend. It is if you look at a bigger trend. Fans follow winners and people like new things. CSU has become a winner and people want to see that thing which is different and positively new. Everyone has seen what the Zips offer so there is nothing new to attract fans. My bet is this season ends up like all of the other seasons we have had in recent years. Nothing new or interesting in Zipsland for the average fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The question of what percentage of attendance increase comes from winning and what percentage from good marketing is not addressed, and is hard to quantify. I can quantify - High-Level Winning* + Good Marketing = Major Attendance Increase High-Level Winning + Bad Marketing = Minor Attendance Increase Mediocre Winning** + Good Marketing = Minor Attendance Increase Losing + Good Marketing = Minor Attendance Decrease Losing + Bad marketing = Appreciable Attendance Decrease*** * High-level winning = Marquee/BCS win(s), and an NCAA Tourney win. Or, any eye-catching, "story book" type season. ** Mediocre winning = Winning record, no marquee wins, and an "other" tourney appearance *** Appreciable decrease is assumed to follow a decent season. Multiple bad seasons will yield a flat-line, bottom rung attendance. See UA football. Note: Effects are additive. If you follow up a great season with a bad one, you lose the public. If you back up a good season with a good/great season, you build. You cannot plant a garden on Monday and pick fruit on Thursday. It takes time to go from 2k to 5k...to 7k, etc. CSU planted the seeds. You can see the plants sprouting. What has UA planted lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The PD column also shows how serious CSU is about marketing its basketball program.I noticed in OCTOBER PS My preseason prediction numbers are still within reach. Fun thread (above link) to read through minus the ysu garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The question of what percentage of attendance increase comes from winning and what percentage from good marketing is not addressed, and is hard to quantify. I can quantify - High-Level Winning* + Good Marketing = Major Attendance Increase High-Level Winning + Bad Marketing = Minor Attendance Increase Mediocre Winning** + Good Marketing = Minor Attendance Increase Losing + Good Marketing = Minor Attendance Decrease Losing + Bad marketing = Appreciable Attendance Decrease*** * High-level winning = Marquee/BCS win(s), and an NCAA Tourney win. Or, any eye-catching, "story book" type season. ** Mediocre winning = Winning record, no marquee wins, and an "other" tourney appearance *** Appreciable decrease is assumed to follow a decent season. Multiple bad seasons will yield a flat-line, bottom rung attendance. See UA football. Note: Effects are additive. If you follow up a great season with a bad one, you lose the public. If you back up a good season with a good/great season, you build. You cannot plant a garden on Monday and pick fruit on Thursday. It takes time to go from 2k to 5k...to 7k, etc. CSU planted the seeds. You can see the plants sprouting. What has UA planted lately? I’m impressed. I had no idea you were that much of a student of the game. Very few people remember when CSU turned the corner. After years of being a college bball doormat, first as Fenn College and then as CSU, I think the years the Vikings set the stage for all the good things to come was 1980-81 and 1981-82. One of the notable events in the 80-81 season was a loss to Marquette in front of a record 7,441 fans at Public Hall. The team went 18-9 that year and Franklin Edwards earned All-America honors. They followed that up in 81-82 with a 17-10 season with Darren Tillis earning All-America accolades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Approximation is not the same as quantification. But I think everyone can go along with the spproximation that winning tends to increase the size of home crowds at sports events while losing has the opposite effect, and the same holds true for good/bad marketing but to a lesser degree than winning. Quanitification would require more specific relative percentages to be cited, and I don't know how to extract those numbers from the available data. The reason it takes more than a season or two to determine a longterm trend in sports attendance is because there are other variables beyond winning/losing and good/bad marketing. The state of the local economy, for example, plays a major role in the number of people willing to buy tickets to various entertainment activities. You'd have to factor in the economy and other variables over a longer period of time to determine a longterm trend. In any case, the thing I found most interesting about the 7-season home attendance stats was how consistent the Zips' home attendance has been compared with CSU's, which has bounced up and down quite a bit. From the 2004-05 through 2007-08 seasons, Zips home attendance never varied more than 0.5%. That's remarkably stable for a 4-year run, given all the different variables that could have affected attendance. In the 2008-09 season, Zips home attendance showed a 14% reduction from the previous season. While significant, it's only about half of the season-to-season variation that CSU has experienced a couple of times over the same time frame. Zips home attendance in the 2009-10 and current seasons has not varied more than 0.5% since that 14% reduction in 2008-09. So the Zips' average variation in season-to-season home attendance over the past 7 seasons has been less than 3%, which is a relatively stable number to hold over 7 seasons. Exactly how to relate winning, marketing, the economy and other variables to the relative stability of Zips home attendance over the past 7 seasons is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Our attendance has been consistently average because everything else has stayed pretty consistent as well. Including the fact that we win 20 games, beat a few good teams in the process, but are never recognized as being at a competitive level against top programs. I think we're fortunate that we continue to win. But to the basketball fans outside of our circle, I can understand if they are waiting for something much more significant to happen. How does the old saying go?....Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Our attendance has been consistently average because everything else has stayed pretty consistent as well. Including the fact that we win 20 games, beat a few good teams in the process, but are never recognized as being at a competitive level against top programs. I think we're fortunate that we continue to win. But to the basketball fans outside of our circle, I can understand if they are waiting for something much more significant to happen. How does the old saying go?....Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten? +1 I think there was a lot of excitement during the early KD/Romeo/Dru years that we were laying a foundation & building a program that would be recognized on a national level. However, since Rome & Dru graduated we've pretty much been treading water. We really haven't taken the program to the "next level," however one may define that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Our attendance has been consistently average because everything else has stayed pretty consistent as well. Including the fact that we win 20 games, beat a few good teams in the process, but are never recognized as being at a competitive level against top programs. I think we're fortunate that we continue to win. But to the basketball fans outside of our circle, I can understand if they are waiting for something much more significant to happen. How does the old saying go?....Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten? +1 I think there was a lot of excitement during the early KD/Romeo/Dru years that we were laying a foundation & building a program that would be recognized on a national level. However, since Rome & Dru graduated we've pretty much been treading water. We really haven't taken the program to the "next level," however one may define that. Additionally, our gameday experience is total crap. As much as I hate to say it, UA needs to go to a Cavs game to learn about creating an atmosphere. Someone previously noted that what's lacking is an attention to details. There are a million small things wrong w/ the gameday experience. It's almost impossible to define, but from top-to-bottom, from A-to-Z, from beginning-to-end, UA athletics simply emit a bush-league vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Zip Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Our attendance has been consistently average because everything else has stayed pretty consistent as well. Including the fact that we win 20 games, beat a few good teams in the process, but are never recognized as being at a competitive level against top programs. I think we're fortunate that we continue to win. But to the basketball fans outside of our circle, I can understand if they are waiting for something much more significant to happen. How does the old saying go?....Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten? +1 I think there was a lot of excitement during the early KD/Romeo/Dru years that we were laying a foundation & building a program that would be recognized on a national level. However, since Rome & Dru graduated we've pretty much been treading water. We really haven't taken the program to the "next level," however one may define that. We are a constantly winning, more students living on campus, and have increasing enrollment but attendance has stayed the same? That is disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottditzen Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Our attendance has been consistently average because everything else has stayed pretty consistent as well. Including the fact that we win 20 games, beat a few good teams in the process, but are never recognized as being at a competitive level against top programs. I think we're fortunate that we continue to win. But to the basketball fans outside of our circle, I can understand if they are waiting for something much more significant to happen. How does the old saying go?....Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten? +1 I think there was a lot of excitement during the early KD/Romeo/Dru years that we were laying a foundation & building a program that would be recognized on a national level. However, since Rome & Dru graduated we've pretty much been treading water. We really haven't taken the program to the "next level," however one may define that. Additionally, our gameday experience is total crap. As much as I hate to say it, UA needs to go to a Cavs game to learn about creating an atmosphere. Someone previously noted that what's lacking is an attention to details. There are a million small things wrong w/ the gameday experience. It's almost impossible to define, but from top-to-bottom, from A-to-Z, from beginning-to-end, UA athletics simply emit a bush-league vibe. ^ agreed you are so right about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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