Conference Re-Alignment?

[akzipper]

Back when most thought there was no chance of Tressel coming to UA, I was hearing that it was a more realistic possibility than most imagined. After Bowden was hired to fill the head coaching position and most stopped talking about Tressel, I continued to hear that he might end up at UA.

The possibility of UA and the Big East is coming to me from the same sources that had the Tressel story right all along. We'll see what happens

No one had the Tressel story right all along. Everyone from the start suggested that he was coming to Akron to coach football. Then UA announces his administrative position and the same people say "Well I was right all along!". Not even close.

We're just not moving anytime soon...

[Zipmeister]

Do anyone have any reliable sources on that?

No one do.

[wadszip]

No one had the Tressel story right all along. Everyone from the start suggested that he was coming to Akron to coach football. Then UA announces his administrative position and the same people say "Well I was right all along!". Not even close.

We're just not moving anytime soon...

Maybe somebody can pull up the Tressel thread from the archives. But from what I recall, Dave did have the Tressel scoop about him coming along in a non-coaching capacity. And credited it to the same source who I assume is giving him the information on this latest news.

I still think it's a longshot if/until a new arena is built, but as I laid out in the first page of this thread, the idea of Akron to the Big East is not out of the question mainly due to the Cleveland/Akron TV market. After looking back, I speculated that Charlotte (a school that doesn't even have a football program yet) would be Akron's biggest competition in making the move. While Charlotte isn't joining the Big East, it is joining CUSA. So if Charlotte can make a leap from no football program to CUSA off the size of its TV market. Why would it be impossible for Akron (which already has a FBS program) to make the leap from MAC to Big East, when it is located in what is still an even larger TV market?

It'll be interesting to see if this develops further. While the Big East is hardly stable and will probably lose its AQ status (and other members), but due to basketball, it will always be around and still be a major step up across the board from the MAC.

Anybody (Dave) hear how the fundraising is going with JT? That will be the key in making this a real possibility. The JAR has to be replaced.

[GP1]

The possibility of UA and the Big East is coming to me from the same sources that had the Tressel story right all along. We'll see what happens

I don't know how far along it is, but I was told one of the reasons TW was brought to Akron was his connections with other conferences and his experiece working for two other conferences. I was also told there is at least one person on the Board of Trustees (probably someone really old who sees the world through the rear view mirror) who is dead set on trying to get us into Conferrrrr...The Big East and believes TW is the guy to do it...God help us all. UofA badly wants out of the MAC and I can't blame the administration. There are only three real questions: 1. Who would want us? 2. Why would they want us? 3. With the current direction of the Big East, why them?

I'm sure it will jump start another 20 year building process, which doesn't seem that bad since we are already 25 years into the current one. We've got all the time in the world.... I'll only be 62 when it is all over. Some on this board may even die of old age before the next building process is completed.

BTW, Captain Smith says to move the chairs again...

[GP1]

It's not surprising than many consider this to be an unlikely scenario. But think back a year ago and ask yourself what your honest response would have been if you'd heard a rumor that Terry Bowden, Chuck Amato and Jim Tressel would all be working for UA in the near future. UA is on the move in many different ways, and I expect there are more surprises to come.

Had I heard a year ago these three people would be working at UofA, it would have foreshadowed the disaster that was Coach I. These three coming to Akron aren't part of a great plan by the University. They are at UofA because of a terrible hiring decision by Dr. P, which resulted in a terrible hiring decision by TW, which resulted in the dismissal of his hand picked apple from the Charlie Weis coaching tree after two forgettable (being kind) seasons, which resulted in a former Zip actually turning down the head coaching position.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Bowden and Amato are here, but let's not forget how they got here. Let's also not forget there are people in positions above them who have made horrible mistakes the past 3 years and are still in positions to make horrible mistakes again. These are also the same people who will pick the next conference if we make a move. Those are the surprises that worry me.

[Dave in Green]

@wadszip, you make some good observations on connecting dots. There are other points that could be added to that. For example, there's the point about the Big East having already had their conference indoor track championship at the Stile Athletic Field House, which demonstrates that UA already fits the Big East in that department.

Then there's the Big East's commitment to being a better soccer conference than the ACC. In the final 2011 college soccer standings, the Big East had 7 of the top 25 teams -- best in the country. They're losing a couple of good teams, and adding Akron would go a long way toward keeping them competitive with the ACC.

There's lots and lots of circumstantial evidence out there for anyone who wants to try to gather all the data and analyze it. It's all speculation, but some is more educated than others.

I have not heard any recent updates on how fund-raising is currently going at UA. More funds would be required to participate in a more prestigious conference, but being in a more prestigious conference also tends to help generate more funds. So I suspect that wealthy UA donors may have more details on the prospects of a conference move than the rest of us.

[Zipmeister]

Had I heard a year ago these three people would be working at UofA, it would have foreshadowed the disaster that was Coach I. These three coming to Akron aren't part of a great plan by the University. They are at UofA because of a terrible hiring decision by Dr. P, which resulted in a terrible hiring decision by TW, which resulted in the dismissal of his hand picked apple from the Charlie Weis coaching tree after two forgettable (being kind) seasons, which resulted in a former Zip actually turning down the head coaching position.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Bowden and Amato are here, but let's not forget how they got here. Let's also not forget there are people in positions above them who have made horrible mistakes the past 3 years and are still in positions to make horrible mistakes again. These are also the same people who will pick the next conference if we make a move. Those are the surprises that worry me.

I'll bet the really old person on the Board of Trustees who sees the world through the rear view mirror would have also thought the hiring of those three foreshadowed the disaster that was icoach (the mirror would really help in this process).

[ZachTheZip]

Whoever it is that is dead set on joining the Big East is hurting our chances of doing just that. We can't just jump from the MAC to the Big East (Temple was an exception, having been there before and playing most sports in the better-respected A-10). You have to join C-USA first if you want in the Big East. By trying to skip that step, we're making sure that we never actually go anywhere.

[Wally B]

Again, you're talking about the old CUSA.... that isn't the case now. Maybe again, sometime in the distant future... but not by their emerging membership. There is no established tier system. Conference prestige is driven by membership, and that has changed drastically this year.

[akzipper]

Whoever it is that is dead set on joining the Big East is hurting our chances of doing just that. We can't just jump from the MAC to the Big East (Temple was an exception, having been there before and playing most sports in the better-respected A-10). You have to join C-USA first if you want in the Big East. By trying to skip that step, we're making sure that we never actually go anywhere.

Agreed! Unless we're sweeping MAC championships in every sport, year after year, I don't see how they could pick us up. We easily have the best facilities, but those only help if you're winning. Right now we're not, and a move to CUSA is the next step. Maybe UA believes that the money it would cost to leave the MAC is not worth the jump just to CUSA? If they think the BE would take them, they will be in for a rude awakening. If we see a new arena, a few winning seasons of football, and increased attendance in all sports I can see it as a possibility 5 or so years down the road. Maybe by then Bowden will have moved on, and Tressel can just take over the football program.

[ZachTheZip]

Again, you're talking about the old CUSA.... that isn't the case now. Maybe again, sometime in the distant future... but not by their emerging membership. There is no established tier system. Conference prestige is driven by membership, and that has changed drastically this year.

The future is all we have. We can't rely on our past to get us an invite.

I would rather be surrounded by and associated with universities who strive to be better and to get to the point where they can move to a better conference, than with the stagnation and complacency that is the MAC.

[wadszip]

Had I heard a year ago these three people would be working at UofA, it would have foreshadowed the disaster that was Coach I. These three coming to Akron aren't part of a great plan by the University. They are at UofA because of a terrible hiring decision by Dr. P, which resulted in a terrible hiring decision by TW, which resulted in the dismissal of his hand picked apple from the Charlie Weis coaching tree after two forgettable (being kind) seasons, which resulted in a former Zip actually turning down the head coaching position.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad Bowden and Amato are here, but let's not forget how they got here. Let's also not forget there are people in positions above them who have made horrible mistakes the past 3 years and are still in positions to make horrible mistakes again. These are also the same people who will pick the next conference if we make a move. Those are the surprises that worry me.

How about looking at it from another angle. If the university wasn't serious about becoming a player in enhancing its football program, the school wouldn't have admitted to the mistake that was Rob Ianello and instead would've let him ride out his contract (especially after firing Brookhart with time left on his contract) and then replaced him with an unproven and cheap "up-and-comer". But they didn't do that. They attempted to correct that mistake before it was too late and brought in a guy who won 75 percent of his games while coaching in the SEC. Unfortunately, none of that changes that the Ianello hire was an abomination, but the fact that they are trying to correct that mistake as quickly as they did and brought in guys like Terry Bowden, Chuck Amato and even Jim Tressel (despite not in an athletic capacity), shows that the higher-ups at the university are committed to making the program a winner.

Of course, you hope that every hire you make is a home run, but that's never going to be the case. I'd be much more concerned about Proenza and Wistrcill if they weren't being proactive in bringing in people who can win.

Tom Wistrcill has taken a lot of heat from people on this board. Bottom line, though, he has hired Brandon Padgett, has retained Caleb Porter and Keith Dambrot despite both being sought after for other more "high profile" jobs, and has brought in Terry Bowden. He's also retained Dennis Mitchell, who I'm guessing has had opportunities to move on as well. Overall, he has the athletic department moving in the right direction. For the second straight year, the Zips have won MAC titles in more than 20 percent of the sports they compete in.

BTW, is it even factual to say Paul Winters turned down Akron? I don't know for sure, but I've been told he never was offered the job and that Bowden was their guy all along. Though, I'm sure somebody on here knows how it exactly went down.

[wadszip]

Whoever it is that is dead set on joining the Big East is hurting our chances of doing just that. We can't just jump from the MAC to the Big East (Temple was an exception, having been there before and playing most sports in the better-respected A-10). You have to join C-USA first if you want in the Big East. By trying to skip that step, we're making sure that we never actually go anywhere.

I agree with not being able to make the jump from MAC to Big East in theory, but that's mainly due to MAC (or any smaller conference) schools not having the facilities needed to make the leap. CUSA is a natural stepping stone for schools to get the extra money needed to potentially build facilities to be on par with other Big East schools. Akron's case is a little different because the school already has the football facility (most important), the indoor practice facility (third most important) and soccer facility (in the Big East's case probably the fourth most important) to be considered. What's missing is the basketball facility (the second most important ... though in the Big East you could argue this and football can be flip-flopped).

Anyway, we all know that the university is trying to get the new basketball arena done. If that happens within the next couple of years as a member of the MAC, then there is no reason that CUSA couldn't be bypassed.

All you have to do is look at which schools the Big East is bringing in to see how the league wants to define it's future. It's all about:

1. Big TV markets (even if a school can't carry that market at this time ... see Houston, Central Florida) ... Akron is in the No. 18 Cleveland-Akron market, which is now the largest in the country without a BCS football school.

2. Large schools with a lot of alumni. ... Akron has 30,000 enrollment with plans in place to grow to 40,000 within the next decade.

3. Schools with above average to very good facilities in football and basketball (having a world-class indoor practice field/track and a very good soccer field doesn't hurt). ... Akron is missing basketball.

4. Opening up new recruiting grounds. ...Akron sits right in the middle of the most fertile football recruiting area (Northeast Ohio) in the No. 4 overall football state in terms of number of NFL players. In basketball, Northeast Ohio is just as good an area in Ohio, which is a top 10 overall basketball state.

5. History of basketball success. ... Akron isn't elite, but probably as good as any school that currently fields a FBS football program not in a major conference.

6. History of football success. ... Akron is pretty bad, but not as bad as the last two years has shown. (But if this was a deal-breaker, no way Memphis gets in).

[GP1]

How about looking at it from another angle. If the university wasn't serious about becoming a player in enhancing its football program, the school wouldn't have admitted to the mistake that was Rob Ianello and instead would've let him ride out his contract (especially after firing Brookhart with time left on his contract) and then replaced him with an unproven and cheap "up-and-comer".

Of course, you hope that every hire you make is a home run, but that's never going to be the case. I'd be much more concerned about Proenza and Wistrcill if they weren't being proactive in bringing in people who can win.

BTW, is it even factual to say Paul Winters turned down Akron? I don't know for sure, but I've been told he never was offered the job and that Bowden was their guy all along. Though, I'm sure somebody on here knows how it exactly went down.

In your first paragraph, you might be exactly right. However, the disaster was complete with Ianello. At some point, TW needed to save HIS job and my guess is that move had more to do with it than anything.

A home run? Ianello got on base because of catchers interference. The thing we know about the TW/Proenza team is this, and it is the part that scares me....They were smart enough to hire Bowen...They were stupid enough to hire Ianello. IF we move to another conference, I give them a 50/50 shot at making the right decision about which conference to land in. Conferences are making it mighty expensive to leave now so the decision has to be the right one the first time.

Lastly, Winters posted on the football alumni forum he turned down the job.

[GP1]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but can anyone describe to me what the Big East will look like in five years? The way I see it, the only attractions to the BE at this point are the remaining schools of Rutgers, UCONN and L'Ville. I would be shocked if any of those schools were in the BE in five years. My guess is they are waiting to see how things pan out for Syracuse and Pitt before escaping the BE...probably a good move on their part.

Why would we want to join a league others are trying to escape?

This is what I mean by looking at the world in the rearview mirror. Sometimes, people see the world as what it was and want it to be that way forever even after the world changed. Republicans want it to be the 1950s forever and the Democrats want it to be the 1960s forever. That's the way I think some see the BE. Some want it to be Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Boston College, Miami, VA Tech, etc. instead of leftovers living in a dying, but once really good league. What teams the BE replaces Pitt, Syracuse and WVU with will not be nearly as good as those three so the quality of football will not be any better than a CUSA.

If football is the reason we examining options, the BE is not the place to be. We have one shot to get this right.

[Captain Kangaroo]

BTW, is it even factual to say Paul Winters turned down Akron? I don't know for sure, but I've been told he never was offered the job and that Bowden was their guy all along. Though, I'm sure somebody on here knows how it exactly went down.

Since Winters explained everything on the UA Football Facebook site, I think everyone here knows exactly how it went down. And the scenario you were told is a complete fabrication.

[scottditzen]

I'm really glad to hear this rumor. If true, it shows the University is performing due dilligence. Complacency in college athletics is not a good thing.

@SeeTeeZip, rumors never come with guarantees. But I continue to hear from good sources that a number of prominent people at UA whose names we all recognize have hinted off the record that the Big East would be the top choice if UA were to move to a more prestigious conference. I believe that contacts have been made and discussions have been had, but I can't confirm that. While I don't have access to any details, I've heard enough to convince me that there's at least a spark of fire where this smoke is coming from.

It's not surprising than many consider this to be an unlikely scenario. But think back a year ago and ask yourself what your honest response would have been if you'd heard a rumor that Terry Bowden, Chuck Amato and Jim Tressel would all be working for UA in the near future. UA is on the move in many different ways, and I expect there are more surprises to come.

[scottditzen]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but can anyone describe to me what the Big East will look like in five years? The way I see it, the only attractions to the BE at this point are the remaining schools of Rutgers, UCONN and L'Ville. I would be shocked if any of those schools were in the BE in five years. My guess is they are waiting to see how things pan out for Syracuse and Pitt before escaping the BE...probably a good move on their part.

Why would we want to join a league others are trying to escape?

If football is the reason we examining options, the BE is not the place to be. We have one shot to get this right.

I think the Big East leftovers will still be better than CUSA aka "the kitchen sink."

Plus, you make it sound like we have a ton of choices in the matter. In your opinion, what realistic, viable options do we have other than CUSA and Big East?

[Dave in Green]

To say that the Big East is unsettled right now is putting it mildly. They're losing and adding schools faster than I can keep up. TCU would have been a major football addition if they hadn't withdrawn from the Big East right after committing to join. Boise State would be a great football addition, if they don't pull a TCU.

Even with its lost schools, the Big East would remain a major upgrade over the MAC in basketball, soccer and some other sports. But football is a question mark. The Big East commissioner just resigned because he was under fire from member school presidents for not doing a better job of keeping some schools from leaving and having a sound plan for replacement schools.

Maybe a new commissioner can pull the Big East back together, or maybe it's too late. I would certainly not want UA to rush into signing up for a cruise on a listing ship.

Following is what the Big East is projected to look like in 2015 if there are no changes in what schools have said they're going to do, and in the current environment of daily changes, this has to be considered completely hypothetical:

10 football members:

UConn

Rutgers

Temple

Cincinnati

Louisville

Memphis

UCF

USF

SMU

Houston

3 football-only members:

Boise St.

SDSU

Navy

8 non-football members:

Providence

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Villanova

Georgetown

Notre Dame

DePaul

Marquette

[lance99]

"Unsettled" is putting it mildly. I called now unstable. If this move was going to happen assuming the current lineup you posted. It looks good for Basketball, but poor for Football. I think now that the Big East will get their own house in oder before they decide to add more schools.

[scottditzen]

UConn

Rutgers

Temple

Cincinnati

Louisville

Memphis

UCF

USF

SMU

Houston

Boise St.

SDSU

Navy

Okay nobody here is clairvoyant, but given this projected scenario I don't know how in the world this conference could be considered a "poor" option for UA football.

[lance99]

UConn

Rutgers

Temple

Cincinnati

Louisville

Memphis

UCF

USF

SMU

Houston

Boise St.

SDSU

Navy

Okay nobody here is clairvoyant, but given this projected scenario I don't know how in the world this conference could be considered a "poor" option for UA football.

I said "poor" because of what I also said: "unstable"

[BirdZip]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but can anyone describe to me what the Big East will look like in five years? The way I see it, the only attractions to the BE at this point are the remaining schools of Rutgers, UCONN and L'Ville. I would be shocked if any of those schools were in the BE in five years. My guess is they are waiting to see how things pan out for Syracuse and Pitt before escaping the BE...probably a good move on their part.

Why would we want to join a league others are trying to escape?

This is what I mean by looking at the world in the rearview mirror. Sometimes, people see the world as what it was and want it to be that way forever even after the world changed. Republicans want it to be the 1950s forever and the Democrats want it to be the 1960s forever. That's the way I think some see the BE. Some want it to be Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Boston College, Miami, VA Tech, etc. instead of leftovers living in a dying, but once really good league. What teams the BE replaces Pitt, Syracuse and WVU with will not be nearly as good as those three so the quality of football will not be any better than a CUSA.

If football is the reason we examining options, the BE is not the place to be. We have one shot to get this right.

So if I'm driving a used Yugo and someone offers me an even trade for a certified pre-owned Mercedes, I should simply say, "Why would I want what someone else didn't want?" Got it.

The leftovers above are still looking pretty good to me, especially if you are willing to take off the football-only blinders.

[scottditzen]

But I don't see how Conference USA is any more stable. Especially since they've lost some of their best schools to the Big East.

If we want stability, lets just stay in the MAC.

I said "poor" because of what I also said: "unstable"

[zippy5]

We've had stability for a long time now. Screw stability.