Plain Dealer poll

[Dr Z]

Very nice breakdown WZ. I would be interested in your opinion on two other categories, free throw shooting, and in game coaching.

Please save your response stat guys, I know how to operate my mouse to stat sites if I so choose, I'm interested in wadszips opinion.

As the year progresses I'm a little more confident in the Zips ability (Zeke/AA/BW) to finish a game at the line. The team still worries me during the game.

One more question for you wadzip, what is your opinion on both teams records if they switched schedules? I find myself watching some B10 ball this season, but you seem like you have seen more Columbus than I have (two games). I normally watch Mac games other than the Zips, but I just can't take it this year.

[Blue & Gold]

KD has truly elevated this program. I've been a Zips fan for a looong time and would have been hard pressed to have ever been able to say I'd be confident going into a game with Columbus.

This year I'd be confident. It'd be a good game, for sure, but come on now, Columbus State is one of the best programs in the nation.

The great thing is that, with KD, we're not falling from grace anytime in the foreseeable future. We lose Zeke next year, and his shoes will be impossible to fill. But 6'11" Pat Forsythe (IMHO) is better as a freshman than Zeke was. He's going to be a monster. If we get Quincy Diggs back, next's year's Zips will be even better than this year's team.

[Ozcat]

Good stuff, WZ. Much better discussion than throwing out some anti-Bobcat inspired post. I thought this thread was about a hypothetical OSU matchup?

Anyway, I agree that Amir isn't consistently solid yet. But, he's shown flashes of brilliance of late (especially in Ann Arbor) and I don't think the gap is that big between him and Zeke. We'll agree to disagree.

Many people keep mentioning depth. Akron plays 9-10 guys. Ok? That's great for a tourney run, but means little in a one game matchup. Plus, Matta rarely rolls out more than 6-7 guys ever, and it seems to have worked quite well.

Last thing. Yes, they've lost most of their tough games. But outside of Illinois and Wisconsin, they've been very close and competitive games. Still losses, but voters take notice, which is why they'll still be Top 25 tonight despite 7 losses. Oh, to not play in the MAC . . .

Fun stuff. Good assessment. It's easy to tell you watch a lot of college ball, which I enjoy. That's why I'm hear enjoying this conversation with you fine folks, because IMO, college bball is hands down the best sport we have.

[zippy5]

Many people keep mentioning depth. Akron plays 9-10 guys. Ok? That's great for a tourney run, but means little in a one game matchup. Plus, Matta rarely rolls out more than 6-7 guys ever, and it seems to have worked quite well.

CBB games are 40 minutes long, not middle school 24 minute games. Depth definitely plays a factor, especially with our style. Check out our scores in 2nd halves vs. 1st halves. We wear teams down with our depth. Note, I am not saying that means we will wear down OSU and beat them, but to say depth doesn't play a role in a 40 minute game is ignorant.

[LZIp]

CBB games are 40 minutes long, not middle school 24 minute games. Depth definitely plays a factor, especially with our style. Check out our scores in 2nd halves vs. 1st halves. We wear teams down with our depth. Note, I am not saying that means we will wear down OSU and beat them, but to say depth doesn't play a role in a 40 minute game is ignorant.

It certainly does. Lack of depth cost OSU against UM a few weeks ago.

[akzipper]

For weeks, and perhaps months, they've been telling themselves that this is all a fluke, and the zips are bound to lose. Yet it doesn't happen and their frustration is starting to boil.

Let's put it this way, if the zips weren't undefeated in MAC play, OU would be 10-1 (or perhaps even 11-0 considering their one loss is to Akron) and reveling in roll from last year back on top of the MAC again, claiming the need for national love and attention. They can't quite pull this off properly with Akron stealing the limelight.

I say, let's put some milk out for the poor kitty fans. They are teh sads.

I was actually thinking Grumpy Cat would be more fitting

[Zips Win!]

Enough already! The Zips need to be concerned about getting into the tournament, not worried about playing tOSU.

Threads like these are infuriating! Stop starting threads for buckeye honks to get on ZNO to post all of their meaningless stats.

Every football season I rail on tOSU because they play schedules that are a joke. I am sure that the thought of tOSU playing Buffalo and Florida A&M next year are keeping ol’ Urb up at night.

On the other hand, I do find it incredibly useless to sit here and make comparisons of the hoops’ teams. tOSU has seven losses with a couple more coming down the stretch. They will end with 9 or 10 losses and STILL make the tournament. We need to win the MAC tournament to get in. tOSU plays in the hardest conference in basketball night-in and night-out, so while they may lose, it’s virtually impossible to make any meaningful comparison based on the level of competition.

And as CK questioned earlier, the last thing I want to see is our students in red and silver.

[wadszip]

Very nice breakdown WZ. I would be interested in your opinion on two other categories, free throw shooting, and in game coaching.

Please save your response stat guys, I know how to operate my mouse to stat sites if I so choose, I'm interested in wadszips opinion.

As the year progresses I'm a little more confident in the Zips ability (Zeke/AA/BW) to finish a game at the line. The team still worries me during the game.

One more question for you wadzip, what is your opinion on both teams records if they switched schedules? I find myself watching some B10 ball this season, but you seem like you have seen more Columbus than I have (two games). I normally watch Mac games other than the Zips, but I just can't take it this year.

Free throw shooting is one of my biggest concerns with this team (that and the slow starts, which, IMO, have been due to being too trigger happy from 3 early in games). It was good to see them shoot them well to close out the EMU game, so hopefully that is a confidence builder moving forward. Overall, the only guys I'm truly confident will hit big free throws in the final minutes of a close tourney-type game is AA and Chauncey. Walsh and Zeke I'm fairly confident in, but both seem to have missed some big ones late in games (IE, Zeke against Oklahoma State, which would've won it in regulation). ... Though, maybe a stat guy can pull up the late-game numbers to see if this is the case. Nick has turned into a pretty good FT shooter this year, so this isn't a problem that can't be fixed. It's more of a concentration thing at this point.

As for in-game coaching, I think KD has done his best job to date, especially on the defensive side. This has to do with having a higher-level of athleticism than he's had in the past. But I love how he has mixed in the man press with the 1-3-1 and 2-3 based on matchups... Off the top of my head, the 1-3-1 they threw at Buffalo and Ohio completely changed those games. Though, I can't remember against OU if it was a true 1-3-1 or more of a man defense and he slid Harney on Cooper to disrupt him with a bigger body. Don't remember exactly, but overall, those were two most impressive games I've seen from KD, from a coaching standpoint, that I remember.

Finally, the OSU vs. Akron records if flipped. I've had this discussion with my Ohio State buddies. I don't think the two teams' records would be all that different. Ohio State is still good enough to be undefeated in MAC play (like Akron). Do they lose to Coastal Carolina, nope. Do they beat Oklahoma State in PR, probably not, though maybe they do in November. Do they beat Creighton on the road. Probably not at that time. Or beat Detroit in Detroit. Toss-up.

Akron probably wins every game OSU won in non-conference and loses to Duke and Kansas. In Big Ten play, Akron losses to every team OSU has lost to (@Illinois, @MSU, @Michigan, vs. Indiana, @Wisconsin). Akron likely beats Nebraska, Northwestern and Iowa at home, and @Purdue, @Nebraska and @PSU. The question is, could Akron beat Michigan and Wisconsin at home like OSU did? That's debatable, but split the difference and say they take one. That puts Akron at 17-8, 7-6 and on the NCAA bubble (despite only one true quality win ... either Michigan or Wisconsin).

Of course, this is all hypothetical. Overall, it shows how much it pays to be in the Big Ten, where 17-8 and 7-6 puts you in the mix, where as Akron would have to go 26-4, 16-0 just to get on the bubble (and then get bumped for a team like Iowa or Minnesota that wins 18-19 games and is .500 in B10 play, that picks up a win in the B10 tourney.)

[GP1]

Enough already! The Zips need to be concerned about getting into the tournament, not worried about playing tOSU.

I'd be happy if the Zips just focused on their next opponent. As a fan though, it's fun to speculate. I don't know how we would do against osu (osu fans don't really know how they would against us), but we have a lot of momentum behind us if we can run the table through the MAC Championship. I like confidence and momentum. I like this Zips team. I like them even more with confidence and momentum. The ability to win a game like this is there...they would just need to get the job done by playing a sharp game.

[Dr Z]

Of course, this is all hypothetical.

Understood. Thanks for taking the time to offer your opinion.

[skip-zip]

Every football season I rail on tOSU because they play schedules that are a joke. I am sure that the thought of tOSU playing Buffalo and Florida A&M next year are keeping ol’ Urb up at night.

That's hilarious. But, don't expect the Buckeye Honks to stop defending their "sisters of the poor" scheduling anytime soon.

[LZIp]

That's hilarious. But, don't expect the Buckeye Honks to stop defending their "sisters of the poor" scheduling anytime soon.

No need to defend when everybody does it.

[Dave in Green]

..... Though, maybe a stat guy can pull up the late-game numbers to see if this is the case. .....

Basic game stats tell a small part of the story. More detailed stats tell more of the story. Stats can't tell the whole story because we're dealing with human beings, not machines. We can look at the averages, but the specifics change every game. Folks like Pomeroy have access to the entire NCAA database, and use sophisticated and proprietary software and algorithms I have neither the time, resources or expertise to crunch the numbers the way they do. But whenever I see claims about Zips team performance that don't sound right, I quick check the stats to see how the numbers support the claims. Sometimes I invest a little time and crunch some numbers myself. But I'm not really a stat geek. I just respect stats as an important element of a total evaluation that also requires understanding human nature.

Free throws are one small example. This forum has been full of criticism of the Zips free throw shooting all season. How ironic is it that in a game where the Zips' field goal shooting was at its worst that their free throw shooting was at its best? Maybe as ironic as the early season criticism of the Zips' being consistently outrebounded turning around to where rebounding is a team strength? Maybe as ironic as the early season criticism of the Zips' porous defense turning around to where defense is a team strength? Maybe as ironic as Zeke the defensive specialist suddenly in the national top 10 in offensive categories? In each instance, a perceived weakness has developed into a strength when it was needed to keep the winning streak alive. It's not the same players every game, but it's someone stepping forward every game.

No one has seriously questioned the physical abilities of this season's Zips players. They're not the most athletic in college basketball, but they're athletic enough. A lot of the game is mental -- shooting free throws, going after rebounds, focusing on the guy you're defending. You have to be alert, smart and mentally tough to play your best game. These are the qualities that I'm starting to see in these Zips. They aren't all the way there yet. But they've come a long way since the start of the season. I no longer go to games worrying about whether they'll hit their free throws, shoot 50% from the field or outrebound their opponent. I go to games expecting them to be better enough than their opponent in enough areas to win, with the exact formula changing from game to game. I believe that all the players are more confident that they can do whatever's necessary to win no matter what that might be.

I also no longer worry that many of the games have been closer than they needed to be. I think the players are all exploring their limits and that they toy around with different approaches when they believe that they're going to win anyway. In the big game against OU, they played tough for most of the game and ended up with a bigger margin of victory than in many of their games against lesser MAC opponents. Experiencing how they will perform at the end of close games during the regular season is great preparation for tournament games. Even playing at their best, they're likely to be in close games in the MAC tournament and beyond. They need to believe that they can win close games in tough situations, because that's all they'll face if they make it to the NCAA tournament. The OU game in Athens will offer a hint of how the Zips can perform in big games in hostile environments.

Anyway, that's my short answer on the Zips' late-game free throw numbers.

[skip-zip]

No need to defend when everybody does it.

Typical OSWho fan excuse.

Unfortunately, your fellow fans choose to ignore the fact that the other schools from conferences that matter play enough games within their league to give themselves a good overall strength of schedule, even when they do play a cupcake or two early in the season.

[LZIp]

Typical OSWho fan excuse.

Unfortunately, your fellow fans choose to ignore the fact that the other schools from conferences that matter play enough games within their league to give themselves a good overall strength of schedule, even when they do play a cupcake or two early in the season.

The schedule has been good enough to get them into the national championship when undefeated and even with one loss. So whats the problem again?

OSWho. Very creative of you

[Zips Win!]

LZip is just another buckeye honk posing as a Zips fan. I know better.

My point wasn't to start another buckeye football bashing thread.

Actually, I was giving my friends in c-bus a little credit for their hoops team. The basketball team

is actually playing a schedule worthy of a bcs program. The football team hasn't in years... Even though they have several losses, the level of

competition they play is outstanding so don't count them out. Their record makes the quality of the team deceiving and probably ranked lower than they should be. Football is always overranked because folks just look at the record and not the level of competition.

Again, lets make the tounament and not worry about who we play. Yet.

[LZIp]

LZip is just another buckeye honk posing as a Zips fan. I know better.

My point wasn't to start another buckeye football bashing thread.

Actually, I was giving my friends in c-bus a little credit for their hoops team. The basketball team

is actually playing a schedule worthy of a bcs program. The football team hasn't in years... Even though they have several losses, the level of

competition they play is outstanding so don't count them out. Their record makes the quality of the team deceiving and probably ranked lower than they should be. Football is always overranked because folks just look at the record and not the level of competition.

Again, lets make the tounament and not worry about who we play. Yet.

LOL

If people just looked at record instead of competition, why wasnt NIU or Can't ranked top 10 at any point this year? You argument is flawed.

As for their bball team, they arent very good. Sweet 16 is their absolute limit. They have a good chance of getting knocked out in the first round.

[ZachTheZip]

If people just looked at record instead of competition, why wasnt NIU or Can't ranked top 10 at any point this year? You argument is flawed.

Because the voters are humans that give name recognition more importance than objective comparisons. Because Can't and NIU started the season unranked and had to claw their way up and hope teams ahead lost, while schools like OSU started off high and only had the task of not losing to a bunch of home games vs cupcakes. Because they didn't get nearly as many televised games for voters to see them.

There are so many reasons that NIU and Can't weren't in the top-10 that have nothing to do with competition.

[LZIp]

Because the voters are humans that give name recognition more importance than objective comparisons. Because Can't and NIU started the season unranked and had to claw their way up and hope teams ahead lost, while schools like OSU started off high and only had the task of not losing to a bunch of home games vs cupcakes. Because they didn't get nearly as many televised games for voters to see them.

There are so many reasons that NIU and Can't weren't in the top-10 that have nothing to do with competition.

I never made the claim competition was the only thing voters look at. I made the claim that they look at more than just the record.

But I, the "Buckeye honk disguised as a Zips fan" digress.

[skip-zip]

schools like OSU started off high and only had the task of not losing to a bunch of home games vs cupcakes.

Bingo!

We all know their strategy. OSWho football fans are just blind. They take their pre-season ranking, play a bunch of cupcakes, hope to keep winning, and hope that the better teams from the better conferences knock each other off.

It almost got them to a national championship game again at the end of the tattoo and cheating season, but the pollsters finally saw the light and decided to pay attention to their #50-something strength of schedule.

[Blue & Gold]

I hate preseason rankings.

It's stacking the deck.

[Big Zip]

Look I'm not an OSU fan and can't stand watching Akron people calling Akron U or rooting for Ohio State but the reason they play cupcakes in the OOC is because their regular season is a real league.

In basketball we should follow the exact opposite approach - we should schedule the tough games in our OOC so that our cupcake in schedule conference games don't look as bad. Just flip their scheduling routine.

Also, quit bitching about OSU's cupcake schedule when we can't even win our cupcake games against schools like Coastal Carolina.

What would our RPI be if we had beaten Coastal Carolina and Detroit? What if our only losses were to ranked teams? What if we had played better competition and won some games? Listen our preseason schedule basically sucked this year. We have so few wins to hang our hat on. We really need to schedule better and quit bitching about conferences that are afforded the ability to schedule cupcakes because they have to play tough teams during league play. By the way OSU's cupcake schedule included Duke and Kansas. We we need to schedule more like them.

[skip-zip]

Look I'm not an OSU fan and can't stand watching Akron people calling Akron U or rooting for Ohio State but the reason they play cupcakes in the OOC is because their regular season is a real league.

In basketball we should follow the exact opposite approach - we should schedule the tough games in our OOC so that our cupcake in schedule conference games don't look as bad. Just flip their scheduling routine.

Also, quit bitching about OSU's cupcake schedule when we can't even win our cupcake games against schools like Coastal Carolina.

What would our RPI be if we had beaten Coastal Carolina and Detroit? What if our only losses were to ranked teams? What if we had played better competition and won some games? Listen our preseason schedule basically sucked this year. We have so few wins to hang our hat on. We really need to schedule better and quit bitching about conferences that are afforded the ability to schedule cupcakes because they have to play tough teams during league play. By the way OSU's cupcake schedule included Duke and Kansas. We we need to schedule more like them.

You may not have seen that the recent posts drifted into football scheduling, and not basketball.

[zen]

[mes102]

Look I'm not an OSU fan and can't stand watching Akron people calling Akron U or rooting for Ohio State but the reason they play cupcakes in the OOC is because their regular season is a real league.

In basketball we should follow the exact opposite approach - we should schedule the tough games in our OOC so that our cupcake in schedule conference games don't look as bad. Just flip their scheduling routine.

Also, quit bitching about OSU's cupcake schedule when we can't even win our cupcake games against schools like Coastal Carolina.

What would our RPI be if we had beaten Coastal Carolina and Detroit? What if our only losses were to ranked teams? What if we had played better competition and won some games? Listen our preseason schedule basically sucked this year. We have so few wins to hang our hat on. We really need to schedule better and quit bitching about conferences that are afforded the ability to schedule cupcakes because they have to play tough teams during league play. By the way OSU's cupcake schedule included Duke and Kansas. We we need to schedule more like them.

Last time I checked, People at beginning of the season said this was a good schedule. It wasn't Miami(OH) heavy, and not Ohio light either. The problem is that sometimes, these teams when they're put on schedule(which mostly is 2-3 yrs before the game would even take place), have down years and may not be the team that the staff thought they would be. Detroit is a perfect example of that this year. Kentucky this year would be another perfect example. If we said Akron was playing Kentucky this season during the summer, everyone would of had it circled. Say we won that game, it still doesn't get us much this season. Just as impactful as the Penn State win by then. Sometimes you try and schedule better, and things you can't control don't turn in your favor. It's just how sports are...It's also how LIFE is too