Settling in on a Rotation

[UAZip0510]

As MAC play approaches, I think it's time for KD to start settling in on a rotation that we're going to roll with through March (barring injury of course). A little bit of this discussion was taking place in the South Carolina thread but that discussion has started to morph into another KD debate and, quite frankly, I'd rather discuss this team and this season than talk about something that isn't going to happen (KD being let go).

The Zips have used several starting five's this season and, while I know the number of minutes each player plays and the five on the court at the end of the game are the most important things, I also think this team could use some consistency. Starting Carmelo and then playing him 3 minutes (Detroit) doesn't make much sense.

I'm curious to hear what everyone would go with for their rotation. This is what I'd like to see:

Starters

C-Forsythe

F-Treadwell

F-McAdams

G-Diggs

G-Evans

6-Harney

7-Ibitayo

8-Kretzer

9-Johnson

I understand that Diggs brings energy off the bench, but I think you have to start your 2nd best player. On a team like last year (with Abreu), I think it worked. On this team I think he needs to start. I like the idea of both he and Evans bringing the ball up and trying to create offense.

I think McAdams has a ton of potential. He needs to work on the defensive end, but he has nice handles and is a pure shooter. I'd like to see more screens set up for him to work a mid-range game, not just setting him up for three point attempts.

I believe Forsythe might benefit the most from an established role. He seems to play better when he is able to get a feel out there from the start. We need him to play well to win the conference - I'd like to see KD show confidence in him and keep him in the starting lineup.

Tree is Tree. He needs to decide what he wants to do long-term. He's made some modest improvements but hasn't taken the MAC POY, future NBA Prospect type of leap I think many of us were hoping for. He has the potential to do both of those things - become a dominant player in the MAC and become a legitimate NBA prospect. It's up to him if it happens. This team seems to follow Tree's lead. Sometimes that's a really good thing, sometimes it's a really bad thing. With Zeke and Brian Walsh gone now (I think Walsh's leadership was underrated) someone needs to take on the leadership role of this team. That can be Tree if he wants to be "the guy" on the squad.

I think Harney is best served as a 6th man. To me, he's the most disappointing player on the team. Sometimes he looks like an all-league player, sometimes he completely disappears. I know he wants to be a starter and get his playing time, but it needs to be earned. He seemed to be upset about not playing point forward much this year - I'd give him some looks there in small doses.

I've been told Deji is one of the best players on the team in practice and it has just never translated to games for some reason. This year, it seems to be starting to. He's shooting better from the field and from deep. He's also playing nice defense (although he has to be smarter with fouls). I also love how he crashes the boards. I think Deji should be one of many shooting free throws after games though - 6 of 19 (32%) isn't going to cut it.

I like Kretzer but he seems to be limited to spotting up for three pointers at this point in his career. If ESPN's statistics are accurate, he's taken 55 shots this year and 49 of them have been three pointers. At this point he's a bench role player. Hopefully he can expand on his game and add a spot-up, mid-range game similar to what I'd like from McAdams in time.

Finally, I'd like to continue to see more of "Big Dog" Isaiah Johnson. In the small sample size that we've seen he's played well. I think with more court time, we could see some major improvements as time the season goes on.

Barring serious foul trouble or garbage time, that's where I'd cut it off. I love Kwan Cheatham's potential, but there simply aren't consistent minutes yet for him. Carmelo Betancourt seems like a good kid, but I'm just not sure he's a D-1 player. He's an awful shooter and he should have to do push-ups every time he attempts a three pointer (3 for 25 in his career!). Until he can at least shoot well enough to keep a defense honest, I just don't see how you can play him much.

(Note: I didn't include Aaron Jackson and BJ Gladden because it seems clear that they'll redshirt this season.)

So that's what I'd like to see. I'm curious what the rest of ZN would like to see from KD moving forward.

[Dave in Green]

Q and Nyles are the only two effective PG options, so their playing time needs to be staggered. It's important to have them both in the game at the finish as they are the most reliable backcourt ball handlers and free throw shooters. Having both in the starting lineup means there will be more time in the middle of the game when they're not playing together. I'd rather one start and one come off the bench. If Nyles is to be the primary PG and Q the backup, it makes sense to start the primary PG and have a former MAC 6th Man of the Year be first off the bench.

[UAZip0510]

Q and Nyles are the only two effective PG options, so their playing time needs to be staggered. It's important to have them both in the game at the finish as they are the most reliable backcourt ball handlers and free throw shooters. Having both in the starting lineup means there will be more time in the middle of the game when they're not playing together. I'd rather one start and one come off the bench. If Nyles is to be the primary PG and Q the backup, it makes sense to start the primary PG and have a former MAC 6th Man of the Year be first off the bench.

I agree, but it's still possible to stagger the PT while starting them both.

[akronzips71]

I think Deji has played his way into the lineup. I do not understand why KD sat him down right after he had two straight blocks and a recovery.

It appears that he is very athletic and it just took a long time to get his basketball skills in order. We will be seeing a lot more of him.

[Staton14]

I didn't know where to post this but Tree isn't a fan of this forum, if anyone cares haha

https://twitter.com/Tall_ass_tree/status/416336378755293185

[akronzips71]

I didn't know where to post this but Tree isn't a fan of this forum, if anyone cares haha

https://twitter.com/Tall_ass_tree/status/416336378755293185

Interesting because the Nation is certainly a fan of Tree.

[Hilltopper]

Interesting because the Nation is certainly a fan of Tree.

Not surprising. I doubt that he is as concerned about what some members of ZN.o say about him, as much as what they say about his team mates and members of the coaching staff. I know some would say he needs to get a thicker skin or something of the sort but he is only human. But hey what do I know. I've already admitted that I see the world through blue and gold colored glasses. Win, lose or draw I will back the team. YMMV

[K92]

Unless you have very thick skin, fan forums are usually not the place for players, staff or their families.

[Hilltopper]

Unless you have very thick skin, fan forums are usually not the place for players, staff or their families.

No argument. It goes both ways though.

[skip-zip]

Unless you have very thick skin, fan forums are usually not the place for players, staff or their families.

Absolutely.

[K92]

No argument. It goes both ways though.

I'm with you. Most people here have a pretty tough epidermis, though.

I think that critics of this forum should temper their negativity, however. It is fine to opine that the opinions expressed here are "a joke", but they should appreciate the traffic and volume at ZN.o because some MAC boards are graveyards. Zips fans have enough interest to actually participate, which we all should be proud of. Warts & all.

[Zipgrad01]

I didn't know where to post this but Tree isn't a fan of this forum, if anyone cares haha

https://twitter.com/Tall_ass_tree/status/416336378755293185

The only thing that is a joke was the Zips performance in the 2nd half in Hawaii. I think Tree needs to worry more about getting things straightened out with his teammates rather than worrying about what a bunch of knuckleheads on a sports forum have to say.

[zippy5]

Was that the real zipwatcher that agreed?

[UAZip0510]

Zipsnation is a joke at times. Some of the posts on the South Carolina thread were ridiculous. That's the nature of a fan forum though..they all get ridiculous at times.

I'm a little worried that Tree cared enough to post that. As Keener said, it's better for players and coaches to stay off of here (and, from what I know, most of them do).

[Quickzips]

My rotation would be:

Starters:

PG - Evans

SG - McAdams

SF - Harney

PF - Treadwell

C - Forsythe

Order off the Bench:

Diggs

Kretzer

Johnson/Cheatham

Ibitayo

Betancourt

I would love to be able to bring Evans off the bench as an instant offense guy, but we need better minutes out of Betancourt for that to happen, and that isn't coming any time soon.

McAdams needs to start to keep some 3 point shooting on the floor for spacing.

Harney has proven time and time again over his career that he is better in the starting lineup than he is coming off of the bench.

Treadwell is the most obvious starter for us right now.

As long as Forsythe can defend, grab some rebounds, score on some put-backs and the occasional post up and not turn the ball over he will be the starting C.

I know a lot of people are clamoring for Diggs to start, but we need him coming off the bench. He's so versatile and he's proven he can excel in that position. The whole team tends to play better with Q coming off the bench.

Almost like Diggs, Kretzer is a great glue guy coming off the bench.

Johnson and Cheatham need to split the backup C minutes this point. Neither one of these guys is ready to play every night regardless of matchups. Johnson is a liability against stretch bigs who like to run the floor and play the pick and pop game. Cheatham is kind of a tweener who will get eaten alive by a bigger stronger C (he really should be playing PF). Take a look at the matchups and decide which one you want to play which night.

Ibitayo has played better of late, but he's still not much more than a 15 minute a night kind of guy. You can't play him in close end of game situations because of his FT shooting and he isn't a good enough ball-handler and distributor to play him very many minutes at PG (which is where we need the most help right now).

Betancourt can (and arguably should) be out of the rotation right now. I don't know what has happened to this kid, but the player we all thought we were getting early last year is nowhere to be found. I suspect losing his fellow Puerto Rican is impacting him a lot more than we may well know.

[phil]

Based on what I saw on Sunday, I think you reward good play and Q should get the start. I think everyone on this board would agree theat Q is better on the point than Evens. It is not even close. We are notorious for slow starts. These guys have to learn to play with tenacity from the opening tip. There is only one way for that to happen and that is start with your best 5. New starting lineup.

Pat

Tree

McAdams

Q

Harney

[Dave in Green]

It's more important to finish with your best 5. Fast finishes overcome slow starts. Q must be fresh enough at the finish to finish fast.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I will probably arrive 5 game-minutes late, so I'll miss our starting 5.

I don't think it is a big loss. In fact, it'll probably help my blood pressure to miss it.

[phil]

It's more important to finish with your best 5. Fast finishes overcome slow starts. Q must be fresh enough at the finish to finish fast.

Using that rationale, we should bring Tree off the bench to keep him fresh and the Cavs should bring Kyree off the bench to keep him fresh. This team needs a leader and Q could be that person. Start him and see if this team takes off where they left off on Sunday.

[MDZip]

Small aside for Pat, has anyone noticed that he's is 9-11 from the field in MAC play? Get him the ball more!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Small aside for Pat, has anyone noticed that he's is 9-11 from the field in MAC play? Get him the ball more!

Coincidentally, since he's returned to the mainland, he's 9-11 from the free throw line?

Get out the butter 'cause Pat's on a roll!

[Dave in Green]

@1981grad, some players perform better and contribute more to the team as starters and some coming off the bench. Coaches experiment with different lineups to see how each player responds under different conditions and how team performance is affected. Q has a long track record of producing his best results coming off the bench, as demonstrated by his MAC Sixth Man of the Year Award. The winning formula with Q has been to bring him off the bench about 3-4 minutes into the game, play him longer minutes throughout the game than any other player but Tree, and have him on the floor to finish the game. I don't think that Coach Dambrot is going to mess with this proven formula this deep into the season, but I've been surprised by coaching decisions before.

[skip-zip]

I don't really care what Keith does with his starting lineup. In the end, everyone who was intended to get their minutes will get those minutes. I do however have a concern with the duties that Quincy is performing, and if he is being overextended.

But, what was particularly puzzling to me was that Betancourt/Deji starting backcourt that we used for several games. These were guys that were going to play limited minutes during the course of the game, but they were in the starting lineup? That was odd.

[phil]

My point exactly. Deji, Evens and Bentacourt are not scoring. We are notorious for slow starts on offense. It is time to try something different.

[Captain Kangaroo]

My point exactly. Deji, Evens and Bentacourt are not scoring. We are notorious for slow starts on offense. It is time to try something different.

@1981grad, some players perform better and contribute more to the team as starters and some coming off the bench. Coaches experiment with different lineups to see how each player responds under different conditions and how team performance is affected. Carmelo Betancourt has a long track record of producing his best results when starting, as demonstrated by his MAC Sixteenth Man of the Year Award. The winning formula with CB has been to sit him on the bench about 3-4 minutes into the game, after he’s made more turnovers than anyone in town except Hostess. I don't think that Coach Dambrot is going to mess with this proven formula this deep into the season, but I've been surprised by coaching decisions before.