UA to Renovate the JAR

[skip-zip]

No.

I figured that, but I had to ask after reading the post.

[MaxZIP]

If the Men's team lost say 10 games next year what would be the impact on attendance?

I contend that there would be little to no negative impact on attendance as the shortcomings of the arena, mismanagement of supporting activities (entertainment, concessions...), and failure to leverage opportunities far outweigh the bounce in public perception generated by winning 20 mostly meaningless games and the MAC Tourney. Top all of that off with the crap schedule this year so far and you have a recipe for 1,500-2,500 core fans to show at each game.

No NCAA Tourney noise means program does not "advance". No improvements to the entertainment value offered at the games means program does not draw in new potential core fans. Crappy arena and boring opponents means event the core fans have to weigh showing and have trouble selling others on the value of spending their precious time at the games.

The 20 win seasons are a joke. The dreary non conference home schedule played year in and out is a drag on even the core fans. My wife just asked me today when the MAC season starts because these early season games are just crap. We are staring down the barrel of mighty Coppin State. Sad when fans are so bored by the entertainment offered that they pray for the MAC season to see some "decent" competition.

I had lower reserve season tickets for the past few years and upper reserved for years before that. All I can say is we are at an all time low. The low is not due to losing for sure. It is due to stagnation with program growth and an erosion of entertainment value.

[MaxZIP]

Couldn't disagree more (with ZtZ--not sure why Quote's not working for me). I've been a season ticket holder for several years. Love college basketball. But UA lost two games in a row on lackluster performances. While I was deciding if I wanted to drive an hour to watch the next game, I see the opponent is Bluffton. I pass. The opponents we play in the JAR stink. The halftime shows this year have consisted of chuck-a-duck and, well, nothing else. The seats are uncomfortable. The concessions stink. The sightlines stink. The student attendance / support stinks. The promotions stink.

The reason we can't agree on the problem is because there are so many. A few years ago we had the slogan "Think Bigger". We need to do more than think about it.

Willie does a great job polishing the turd of in game entertainment options offered. The lack of a half time show is inexcusable. There are many groups on campus that would be great free entertainment. Chuck a duck is cool but after the game is the right time for that. Seems like the marketing folks have focused on kids groups and have become lazy and less creative. Again, the erosion in entertainment value and lack of game atmosphere really hurt non core fan attendance.

[Hilltopper]

Willie does a great job polishing the turd of in game entertainment options offered. The lack of a half time show is inexcusable. There are many groups on campus that would be great free entertainment. Chuck a duck is cool but after the game is the right time for that. Seems like the marketing folks have focused on kids groups and have become lazy and less creative. Again, the erosion in entertainment value and lack of game atmosphere really hurt non core fan attendance.

There is no budget for paying for halftime entertainment that I know of. As long as that big albartross across the street keeps sucking every last dollar out of the athletics budget, I wouldn't expect much in the way of halftime entertainment.

[MaxZIP]

There is no budget for paying for halftime entertainment that I know of. As long as that big albartross across the street keeps sucking every last dollar out of the athletics budget, I wouldn't expect much in the way of halftime entertainment.

They need to try something to showcase the vibrant university culture, clubs, and group for free!...Steel Drum Band, putting contest from the golf team, soccer team juggling, some type of concert, anything. Believe it or not there are many people (my wife and daughter included) that attend games for entertainment often beyond what happens on the court. I am not advocating to go straight minor league baseball screwball type stuff.

[Balsy]

There is no budget for paying for halftime entertainment that I know of. As long as that big albartross across the street keeps sucking every last dollar out of the athletics budget, I wouldn't expect much in the way of halftime entertainment.

You wouldn't even need a budget. There are several groups on campus that would definitely be able to do something entertaining for free if you gave them the opportunity to do so. One thing I learned working on campus is that outside groups tend to dictate what Akron can and cannot do. There could be an opportunity for student groups to be more involved with games at Infocision Stadium, but IMG (which UA has contracts with) says no.

[Balsy]

We have like a million a cappella groups that (if you actually gave a chance) they'd be able to make a pretty entertaining and unique halftime show.

[K92]

When I was a student, I saw a halftime lip sync competition that was hilarious.

[MaxZIP]

When I was a student, I saw a halftime lip sync competition that was hilarious.

Nice. I hear air guitars are also pretty cheap these days. You would need an intern or two and about 30 minutes of planning to make this happen.

[UAZip0510]

If the Men's team lost say 10 games next year what would be the impact on attendance?

I contend that there would be little to no negative impact on attendance as the shortcomings of the arena, mismanagement of supporting activities (entertainment, concessions...), and failure to leverage opportunities far outweigh the bounce in public perception generated by winning 20 mostly meaningless games and the MAC Tourney. Top all of that off with the crap schedule this year so far and you have a recipe for 1,500-2,500 core fans to show at each game.

No NCAA Tourney noise means program does not "advance". No improvements to the entertainment value offered at the games means program does not draw in new potential core fans. Crappy arena and boring opponents means event the core fans have to weigh showing and have trouble selling others on the value of spending their precious time at the games.

The 20 win seasons are a joke. The dreary non conference home schedule played year in and out is a drag on even the core fans. My wife just asked me today when the MAC season starts because these early season games are just crap. We are staring down the barrel of mighty Coppin State. Sad when fans are so bored by the entertainment offered that they pray for the MAC season to see some "decent" competition.

I had lower reserve season tickets for the past few years and upper reserved for years before that. All I can say is we are at an all time low. The low is not due to losing for sure. It is due to stagnation with program growth and an erosion of entertainment value.

There's great irony in you talking about how bad the arena is in one breath and complaining about nobody worth a damn coming to play us in it in the next. You think "name" opponents don't see/feel the same thing about the JAR? That's why we're talking about renovations and/or a new arena in the first place.

[MaxZIP]

There's great irony in you talking about how bad the arena is in one breath and complaining about nobody worth a damn coming to play us in it in the next. You think "name" opponents don't see/feel the same thing about the JAR? That's why we're talking about renovations and/or a new arena in the first place.

No irony just facts. The JAR, early season home opponents and the halftime entertainment suck. Actually I think we are on the same side of things when it comes to the JAR. I do however think we see it from a fans view and are missing a much larger picture.

The JAR sucks...will opponents not come here because the arena sucks or because they may get beat or because the can find a closer cheaper game? Who cares. It is not our job to find teams to come to the JAR. There are people making great money to do just that. The if you build it they will come type of thinking is crap.

I am in favor of building a new arena because I would personally benefit from it. That being said somebody needs to play devils advocate on this one as everything is not adding up.

Taking a non biased look at the situation would yield surprising results. Maybe the athletic department doesn't care if the team performs any better than they have for the past 5 years. Maybe appearing in the MAC tourney championship game is enough for them when paired with 20 relatively meaningless wins. From this viewpoint it would make sense to do very limited work on the JAR. I have seen no proof that the University is prepared to back the rhetoric about thinking bigger. I am also not convinced there is a true business case for a major renovation or new arena in the current political environment. I am also convinced that they have KD chasing 20 win seasons (that is why we are watching so many crap home games). The basketball program has been on cruise control for years in terms of burden on the department. KD is locked in, they are winning, and the JAR is still standing. It is obvious that the push surrounding the program (not knocking the team or coaches here) has dwindled over the past few years. The zips are one (at least) punch, five pounds of weed, and a flying dinner plate away from being the easiest team in history to manage as an administrator. Why make work if you are the AD?

[skip-zip]

I'm only lost on the "flying dinner plate" one.

[a-zip]

Ok, let me get this straight……….

Football has a bright shiny new state of the art stadium BUT because they don't win….nobody attends

Basketball wins tons of games (that apparently don't matter to anyone) BUT has an old dated JAR…….nobody attends

Soccer wins tons of games, has new Cub Cadet stadium, nationally ranked, good schedule……….1,800 per game attend

Hmmm, I'm confused.

[clarkwgriswold]

I am just curious about what else is going on around campus to draw the kids. Not to be critical, but this is AKRON, there can't be that much more else to do for the kids in dorms and just off campus. I could understand it if we were still the commuter school we were years ago, but things have changed significantly in that regard.

As for the bottomless pit that football has become, I'd think they might actually get more attention as a good Football Championship Subdivision Team or a DII team, as opposed to a perennially bad FBS team. The greatest excitement I can remember for UA football was when they went to the Stagg Bowl in the mid-70's. I'm thinking Illinois State and North Dakota State fans are enjoying their programs far more than we are.

[Zip_ME87]

I'm only lost on the "flying dinner plate" one.

You asked.

[Zip_ME87]

Ok, let me get this straight……….

Football has a bright shiny new state of the art stadium BUT because they don't win….nobody attends

Basketball wins tons of games (that apparently don't matter to anyone) BUT has an old dated JAR…….nobody attends

Soccer wins tons of games, has new Cub Cadet stadium, nationally ranked, good schedule……….1,800 per game attend

Hmmm, I'm confused.

The "tons of games" that Zips Basketball wins only mean something to die hard Zips' fans. It is not rocket science to understand that others only see the Zips for what they accomplish in the NCAA Tourney...winless and blown out by another mid-major, 88-42, the last time we were there. That game was over in the first 5 minutes. VCU had 50 at half and needed no points in the 2nd half to win. That's the way others remember the Zips. Sorry, but that is how it is no matter how rose-colored one's glasses may be.

BTW, Soccer's attendance was down last season from the previous season, I believe. Likely it will drop again in 2015 given the result in the 2014 NCAA Tourney. I'm a die hard; so, I'll be there supporting our young team to learn and improve over 2014. I hope we don't begin accepting stagnation in that program.

[MaxZIP]

Ok, let me get this straight……….

Football has a bright shiny new state of the art stadium BUT because they don't win….nobody attends

Basketball wins tons of games (that apparently don't matter to anyone) BUT has an old dated JAR…….nobody attends

Soccer wins tons of games, has new Cub Cadet stadium, nationally ranked, good schedule……….1,800 per game attend

Hmmm, I'm confused.

So you are proving the point that Akron Zips Basketball is fundamentally different than other university sports. The basketball team can keep winning the type of games currently on their schedule and not progress as a program. The basketball team could win 20 games this year and witness the attendance continue to shrink. I am in favor of building a new arena or a heavy renovation of the current space. I just don't think there is a huge upside when viewing this from the AD's office. There will be minor renovations to the JAR 5-10 million with the promise of a phased vision. Power conference teams are not going to be beating down the doors to play because of a new lobby. Power conference teams will not be beating down the doors to play at a 5,000 seat new area either. The only solution to this problem is to change the complaceny in the program. If the current group leading the charge is not capable move them out. I know it is not a popular opinion but we are at a crossroads. Go big or go home. 20 wins and a MAC Tourney Championship showing will not generate enough money to build a new arena. For that the University will need substantial tv money, cash games, and real hope of national impact. The current funding structure will just not support taking another high dollar risk.

[MaxZIP]

I am just curious about what else is going on around campus to draw the kids. Not to be critical, but this is AKRON, there can't be that much more else to do for the kids in dorms and just off campus. I could understand it if we were still the commuter school we were years ago, but things have changed significantly in that regard.

As for the bottomless pit that football has become, I'd think they might actually get more attention as a good Football Championship Subdivision Team or a DII team, as opposed to a perennially bad FBS team. The greatest excitement I can remember for UA football was when they went to the Stagg Bowl in the mid-70's. I'm thinking Illinois State and North Dakota State fans are enjoying their programs far more than we are.

I agree with you that the team may be a better fit in the lower division. Bringing it back to the topic at hand though. The University launched the Athletics Program in the direction of competing with the big boys when they built the Info. They would again be making a statement in the same direction if a new arena was built. The entire University is at a crossroads. They have improved so much in the past decade but the growing pains are coming at a rough time in the economy. I expect the university to pump the brakes on the athletic department by doing a series of minor renovations on the JAR to remain in the zone of respectability for a MAC basketball program. 5-10 million in the first phase to address the luxury seating and the lobby (not great idea) under some pretense of drawing in huge donations from big donors. Doing this will not be an epic fail financially but it will cost the program time and momentum.

[MaxZIP]

The "tons of games" that Zips Basketball wins only mean something to die hard Zips' fans. It is not rocket science to understand that others only see the Zips for what they accomplish in the NCAA Tourney...winless and blown out by another mid-major, 88-42, the last time we were there. That game was over in the first 5 minutes. VCU had 50 at half and needed no points in the 2nd half to win. That's the way others remember the Zips. Sorry, but that is how it is no matter how rose-colored one's glasses may be.

It is more than this. Pair a crappy arena with a crappy product and what do you have. I love MAC basketball but will be the first to admit that most people could care less about an early January victory over Copping State. Just like they don't care about a home loss to Middle Tennessee. Sure, I would like to watch a game without a black bar and pedestrians blocking my view. I would like to be able to take people to a game and have them actually get enjoyment from it. There are many things that can be done immediately to generate more fans and improve the value of investing time and money in the basketball program. Short game=do the little things

Long game=build an area

Really Long Game=Up minimum level of competition (join a new league or devise some diabolical strategy to get good teams on the schedule)

[a-zip]

So you are proving the point that Akron Zips Basketball is fundamentally different than other university sports. The basketball team can keep winning the type of games currently on their schedule and not progress as a program. The basketball team could win 20 games this year and witness the attendance continue to shrink. I am in favor of building a new arena or a heavy renovation of the current space. I just don't think there is a huge upside when viewing this from the AD's office. There will be minor renovations to the JAR 5-10 million with the promise of a phased vision. Power conference teams are not going to be beating down the doors to play because of a new lobby. Power conference teams will not be beating down the doors to play at a 5,000 seat new area either. The only solution to this problem is to change the complaceny in the program. If the current group leading the charge is not capable move them out. I know it is not a popular opinion but we are at a crossroads. Go big or go home. 20 wins and a MAC Tourney Championship showing will not generate enough money to build a new arena. For that the University will need substantial tv money, cash games, and real hope of national impact. The current funding structure will just not support taking another high dollar risk.

How do you figure? LOL

I think what I have illustrated is no matter what this administration does, attendance will not change and the BS excuses people give for NE Ohio not supporting UoA sports are nothing more than BS. I challenge you to show me one example that would justify building a new arena.

[MaxZIP]

I challenge you to show me one example that would justify building a new arena.

I told you already that there is not an obvious business case for a reno or a new arena in the short term. . Challenge accepted. I have stated that I would like for them to build a new arena or majorly renovate so that I can watch a came w/o a bar and pedestrians in front of me. A personal justification as most of the people posting on this forum have expressed.

[footballzip]

Lets look at the glass half full, no negativity. We have gotten spoiled that Akron has had multiple 20 win seasons, won multiple MAC championships, and able to keep KD from leaving for a bigger school. We will be getting a renovated JAR, which I think will be nice when done. We would love if our football team had this kind of success. Go to the games have a hotdog, nachos, and a cold pepsi and enjoy yourselves.

[skip-zip]

You asked.

LOL...I'm surprised at myself right now. I either forgot that detail, or don't remember ever seeing or hearing it.

[Zip_ME87]

@MaxZip, I agree with you that "little things" can be done in the "short game". Some improvements to the JAR and some entertainment added to the Basketball game experience. If, as someone said, IMG holding the entertainent back from happening, then why do we have IMG? I haven't seen an obvious increase in ticket sales since they've become involved. What are they doing for us? Someone enlighten me, please, if you can.

I can't justify a new UoA, on campus arena. However I do believe that Akron, Summit County, and UoA might justify a downtown arena. I believe the reason that it didn't get to the ballot last year is that everyone saw it as UoA's arena. The idea seemed to be thrown together with little thought of marketing it to the voters or of its uses beyond UoA athletics. I don't understand why some folks on ZN.o are so hell bent on, if there is a new arena, it's being on campus. Downtown Akron is barely off campus. Being able to host concerts, high school graduations, UoA Mens & Womens Basketball, and other activities for Akron and surrounding counties/communities seems like it could work. Perhaps if UoA could bring some level of funding to it through donations and fundraising, then maybe asking the voters for the rest might work. I, too, have personal gain in mind in that I prefer to go to Akron with my entertainment dollar rather than Cleveland as well as I'd like to get more enjoyment out of Akron basketball games with a more comfortable and better in-game experience.

[ziptrumpet87]

What about beer sales for basketball? I would think that would be an easier sell for a downtown arena owned by the city/county vs UA.